0903: "Extended Mind"

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ConMan
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby ConMan » Thu May 26, 2011 6:43 am UTC

ritvax wrote:
philip1201 wrote:"Spark plugs" were central to the 25th of may xkcd wikipedia shutdown incident, where the highest number of pages had to be locked in a single day?


You'd think an alarm goes off at WikiQuarters whenever a new xkcd comes out that references Wikipedia or a specific article... "This article has been locked due to xkcd."

Which wouldn't help in this situation, since the problem is every article that might eventually link to philosophy. However, there are enough people who edit Wikipedia and also read xkcd (or watch Stephen Colbert, or any other number of places that reference Wikipedia) that they know when to start keeping an eye on things.
pollywog wrote:
Wikihow wrote:* Smile a lot! Give a gay girl a knowing "Hey, I'm a lesbian too!" smile.
I want to learn this smile, perfect it, and then go around smiling at lesbians and freaking them out.

abhi2point0
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby abhi2point0 » Thu May 26, 2011 6:43 am UTC

I just couldn't resist people, sorry!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_third_law_of_Wikipedia

kevinthemindful
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby kevinthemindful » Thu May 26, 2011 6:46 am UTC

Keep in mind that there are a finite number of articles in Wiki.
This means that by following the specified rules for following links ALL articles will either end up in loops or in at Philosophy.
This is because if it does not end up in a loop, then it WILL eventually get to Philosophy. As soon as you are linked to a page you have alreay visited: BOOM! Loop.

kevinthemindful
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby kevinthemindful » Thu May 26, 2011 7:00 am UTC

Agrajag619 wrote:Apologies if someone has posted this already, but there is a page at Wikipedia:Get to philosophy which has been around since May 2008. Their record for longest chain is 36 articles. Has this thread surpassed that already?

EDIT: It seems it was even featured on the Wikipedia Weekly podcast. Cool!

Just got 35 with 1971 ABC Championship.

mrkafka
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby mrkafka » Thu May 26, 2011 7:20 am UTC

this is definitely a simple extension of godwins rule and the 6 degrees of seperation
I think that we maybe should fix all of those loops, after all wiki is open content

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drewster1829
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby drewster1829 » Thu May 26, 2011 7:44 am UTC

Randomizer wrote:
kensey wrote:(Why am I getting an error about jsMath TeX fonts at the top of the page?)
You have javascript turned off. It does that to me too when I don't have javascript enabled.

To read what's in spoiler tags you need javascript turned on. It also allows things like

Code: Select all

 [imath]\displaystyle\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty \frac{3}{4^n}=1[/imath]
to be converted into pretty mathematical symbols. Like this: [imath]\displaystyle\sum\limits_{n=1}^\infty \frac{3}{4^n}=1[/imath]

Not sure if there's anything else that javascript does on this forum.


Or, like me, he's missing some of the TeX fonts. The solution to this is to open up the control panel in the lower right (little button that says jsMath), and click "missing fonts" which opens up a page with some links to zip files of them, and instructions on how to install them. After installing them, go back to the jsMath control panel and click "Reload."

I get this message all of the time in Windows and Linux if I didn't bother to install TeX fonts, and Javascript has always been on when I've gotten this message (I've never tested it with Javascript disabled).
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Niavmai
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Niavmai » Thu May 26, 2011 8:27 am UTC

I made an account on the forums just to point this out:

I click random pages, and this is the first result I get: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_Sluts:_Been_There,_Done_That

It took me 6 clicks (comic's method not used) to get to Philosophy.

This is the highlight of my day.

flamewise
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby flamewise » Thu May 26, 2011 8:32 am UTC

A very confusing game, since people keep editing.

I mean, I'm not even sure you can call it a philosophy loop: Just keep clicking and eventually the loop will break...

Isn't it really more likely that you'll end in a dead-end that nobody will bother editing eventually?

Of course all you have to do is post that discovery here to get rescued... which may take a reload, and that's not really in the rules.

I figure the basic philosophy loop would be made tamper-proof before too many people get sent to the dead-ends though.

A very confusing game, because of all the meta-game.

MrAbyssal
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby MrAbyssal » Thu May 26, 2011 8:37 am UTC

SenderMage wrote:That's amazing, I started on today's featured article, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, and it did end in philosophy! It came close, then went away from it for a few pages, then I was at philosophy! I'm going to try it with random articles too, this is very entertaining.

Edit: just saw ducksan's post, we did the same thing :D


You also need to discount links in bold text. Otherwise you can get stuck in a loop between antique and collectable.

m8e
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby m8e » Thu May 26, 2011 8:40 am UTC

Looks like everything goes to Philosophy via the same 'branches'.

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Science <=Natural_science <=Physics <=Physical_body <=Life <=Plant <=Food <=Food_preservation <=Drying_(food) <=Dried_fruit <=Raisin

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Science <=Natural_science <=Physics <=Potential_energy <=Electric_potential_energy <=Railway_electrification_system <=Rapid_transit <=MTR <=Shui_Pin_Wai_Stop

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Science <=Natural_science <=Biology <=Organ_(anatomy) <=Mammary_gland <=Milk <=Process <=Recording <=Motion_picture <=1939_in_film <=Captain_Spanky%27s_Showboat

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Science <=Natural_science <=Physics <=Buoyant <=Ship <=Craft_(vehicle) <=Watercraft <=Submarine <=Victoria_class_submarine <=HMCS_Chicoutimi_(SSK_879)

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Science <=Earth_sciences <=Landform <=Landmass <=Continent <=South_America <=Chile <=Ena_von_Baer

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Linear_algebra <=Basis_(linear_algebra) <=Change_of_bases

Philosophy <=Modern_philosophy <=Property_(philosophy) <=Quantity <=Mathematics <=Finite_set <=Information <=Fact <=Knowledge <=Observation <=Phenomenon <=Nature <=Preternatural <=Deity <=Monotheism#Christian_view <=Christianity <=Christian <=Christian_theology <=Ecclesiastical <=Canon_law <=Canon_law_(Catholic_Church) <=Particular_church <=Latin_Rite <=Western_Christianity <=Hierarch <=Hierarchy <=Abstraction <=Intelligence <=Emotional_intelligence <=The_Emotional_Intelligence_Appraisal

xlozxdark
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby xlozxdark » Thu May 26, 2011 9:06 am UTC

While Going through Wiki I thought of a 20 questions type game with it. You pick any topic and get to philosophy, then using back buttons a friend tries to guess what your original topic was in as few times back as possible.

Softfoot
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Softfoot » Thu May 26, 2011 9:08 am UTC

Idiot
Mental Retardation
Adaptive Behavior
Behavior
System
Element
Mathematics

Which, as we know, leads to Philosophy unless someone's made a loop.

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dr pepper
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dr pepper » Thu May 26, 2011 9:32 am UTC

halcyon1234 wrote:"Star Trek", 18 hops to Philosophy-- but there was a stopover at Mammary Glands, so it wasn't all that bad...


You can depend on Kirk!

abhi2point0
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby abhi2point0 » Thu May 26, 2011 9:33 am UTC

It's now been decreed as law, so all debates over?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:3LAW

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dr pepper
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby dr pepper » Thu May 26, 2011 10:02 am UTC

I find myself wanting to see more analysis of this phenomenon. Clusterings, mean path lengths, logarithmic path lengths, etc, to see if anything surprising falls out. But not here.

This is a job for Language Log!

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Samik
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Samik » Thu May 26, 2011 10:15 am UTC

ritvax wrote:You'd think an alarm goes off at WikiQuarters whenever a new xkcd comes out that references Wikipedia or a specific article... "This article has been locked due to xkcd."

They've already got it covered.

lucquardo
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby lucquardo » Thu May 26, 2011 11:26 am UTC

Shall we designate the number of steps to "philosophy" from a given page as being it's Monroe Number? Like its Erdos Number (see #599 or altext for #403)... as long as the name has not been used already for some other phenomenon.

The Monroe Number for "xkcd" is 20

Outlaw infinite Monroe Numbers!!!

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Clamburger
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Clamburger » Thu May 26, 2011 11:57 am UTC

I wonder if this comic broke a record for "xkcd comic which prompted the most amount of useless Wikipedia edits"

quite sad really

MrConor
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby MrConor » Thu May 26, 2011 12:58 pm UTC

Armitando wrote:Alt text: Wikipedia trivia: if you take any article, click on the first link in the article text not in parentheses or italics, and then repeat, you will eventually end up at "Philosophy".


United States Armed Forces -> military forces -> country -> geographical -> Greek -> Greeks -> nation -> sovereign state -> state -> social sciences -> scholarship -> principles -> law -> system -> Latin -> Italic language -> Indo-European -> family -> languages -> human -> taxonomically -> Ancient Greek -> Greek language -> Greeks -> nation...

IT'S A TRAP!

EDIT: I see there have been many loops. How disappointing, but not particularly unexpected.

averroes.crossroads
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby averroes.crossroads » Thu May 26, 2011 1:25 pm UTC

actually, given that wikipedia is finite, every page either leads to a loop or a dead end. Well, that's obvious. But because there are few dead ends, the vast majority will loop. Given that wikipedia is (theoretically) continually being improved, more and more articles will be added over to the looping category over time, while there will probably be a continuous stream of very low quality articles that link to nothing, but as the volume of linking/looping articles grows, the proportion of articles which eventually loop should become overwhelming. Of course, that's not taking into account the change in the rate at which articles are created or the change in the quality of article creators.

This sounded like a more profound observation in my head...

EuMesmo
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby EuMesmo » Thu May 26, 2011 1:28 pm UTC

I tried with many of the loops here and all I tried passed by Modern Philosophy... Does it count as Philosophy?

bcoblentz
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby bcoblentz » Thu May 26, 2011 1:38 pm UTC

Whoever started the 'Get to philosophy' page basically asked people to edit every article so that this observation holds true. A 2008 version of the page says it worked for about 80% of all articles. The current version says 93%.

Seen in this light, along with the fact that most of the hyperlinks in any given article have no real purpose except to distract you from what you were initially reading about, it's incredibly uninteresting.

Cadiac
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Cadiac » Thu May 26, 2011 1:49 pm UTC

I actually registered to say this: check yesterdays wikipedia statistics from some site like WikiRoll:

Most popular articles of the day: 2011/5/25

Article Visits/Hour
Main_Page 221957
404_error 16623
Mathematics 16342
Quantity 14292
Property_(philosophy) 11143
Philosophy 11004
List_of_dinosaurs 9496
Information 9335
Modern_philosophy 9242
Science 9151

Was pretty amusing to notice philosophy related articles peaking yesterday :D

(cant link as I'm aware of the "5 posts until link" -rule, but you can find those statistics pretty easily.)

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BrianB
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby BrianB » Thu May 26, 2011 1:54 pm UTC

Wikipedia actually has an xkcd rule: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:XKCD

Lykos
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Lykos » Thu May 26, 2011 2:33 pm UTC

It also works in German! That's just amazing!

atrahasis
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby atrahasis » Thu May 26, 2011 2:44 pm UTC

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Directional graph with "Philosophy" at the centre, with several hundred nodes (was going for a thousand, but thrown-together script didn't like a 500 server error).

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LaserGuy
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby LaserGuy » Thu May 26, 2011 3:09 pm UTC

Just found my first loop

Intelligent Design -> natural selection -> biologic traits -> phenotypic trait -> phenotypic character -> phenotype -> phenotypic trait

I'm a little surprised that this ended in a loop, actually, since normally sciency ones tend to converge into one of the main lines pretty fast.

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KShrike
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby KShrike » Thu May 26, 2011 3:12 pm UTC

On 10/10/10, My Little Pony started to appeal to adult males. Ya rly!
Forget the /b/ memes, and go watch the show and see what I mean. After all, the /b/ memes exist because the show itself is so cleverly written. Check it out!

tokay
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby tokay » Thu May 26, 2011 4:20 pm UTC

hmm...

it seems to me that the fact that it leads to "Philosophy" is a bit extraneous, since it pretty reliably leads to "Greek" beforehand, which is a little weirder.

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DragonHawk
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby DragonHawk » Thu May 26, 2011 4:25 pm UTC

ConMan wrote:That's funny, because I know several people with actual lives and none of them have ever referred to Randallism.

I'd never heard it before, either, but I do love the term, and have suggested on Wikipedia that it be adopted as standard terminology for xkcd-related vandalism.
ConMan wrote:Also, just like the people who want to name this game after Randall or xkcd are missing the fact that it appeared on Reddit some time ago...

The fact that other causes also exist doesn't eliminate the fact that any time xkcd mentions a Wikipedia article, we immediately see a spike in vandalism to that article. Frankly, it gets pretty old pretty quick for those of us actually working on the encyclopedia.
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Baylink
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Baylink » Thu May 26, 2011 4:25 pm UTC

Have I *actually* scooped this?

Just posted to NANOG: http://ryanelmquist.com/cgi-bin/xkcdwiki

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savanik
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Re: #903: Extended MInd

Postby savanik » Thu May 26, 2011 4:37 pm UTC

DragonHawk wrote:
ConMan wrote:Also, just like the people who want to name this game after Randall or xkcd are missing the fact that it appeared on Reddit some time ago...

The fact that other causes also exist doesn't eliminate the fact that any time xkcd mentions a Wikipedia article, we immediately see a spike in vandalism to that article. Frankly, it gets pretty old pretty quick for those of us actually working on the encyclopedia.


Can't you guys make a bot that would instantly lock any wikipedia article mentioned on xkcd's comic thread for a few days? :D
"If it were up to the copyright lobby, owning a pen would be punishable by fines." ---Arancaytar

atrahasis
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby atrahasis » Thu May 26, 2011 5:34 pm UTC

Baylink wrote:Have I *actually* scooped this?

Just posted to NANOG: http://ryanelmquist.com/cgi-bin/xkcdwiki

Pretty cool, but I went to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Australia and it steps to "Geographic coordinate system" by taking the link in the right sidebar.

Not sure if the rule is supposed to just use the body of the article.

My script for generating the tree graph above uses the mobile site as it's a lot cleaner.

ckbryant
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby ckbryant » Thu May 26, 2011 5:39 pm UTC

Perhaps worth noting is that "Philosophy" itself leads in a ring to "Philosophy," as follows:

Philosophy
Existence
Sense
Organism
Biology
Natural_science
Science
Knowledge
Fact
Information
Sequence
Mathematics
Quantity
Property_(philosophy)
Modern_philosophy
Philosophy

So any of the fifteen pages in this ring might have an equally legitmate claim to be the "fundamental" Wikipedia reference. As a group, you could think of them as constituting the Wikipedia Reference Event Horizion.

As an emprical matter, we might ask which of these items is the most common point of entry into the whirlpool. I suspect "natural science" would prove to be the winner.

Johnnyjohnny
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Johnnyjohnny » Thu May 26, 2011 5:40 pm UTC

"Social Policy" loops.

Cassa
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Cassa » Thu May 26, 2011 6:07 pm UTC

I find quite interesting that, in fact, the most common limit of a page succession heavily depends on the language.

Using Italian wikipedia, you (except from loops) end in "Lingua latina", id est "Latin".

wolfticket
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby wolfticket » Thu May 26, 2011 6:19 pm UTC

It works!
I clicked "Random Article" and it took me to "Infinite divisibility", I clicked the first link and then BOOM! "Philosophy" :D

As far as I can see, the crux seems to be that the most common first links are:

-Science/Maths, or a branch thereof.
-A nation, or nationality.
-Meaning or Language.

Science, maths, language and any nation (via sovereign state) all end up at "Philosophy".


webgrunt
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby webgrunt » Thu May 26, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

I tried this. I started at “Christina Perri” and it took 25 clicks to get to Philosophy.

I started at “mud” and it took 15.

I tried “automobile” and it took a mere 13 clicks.

There are reportedly a few that will get stuck in loops, but all other roads lead, apparently, to philosophy.

Zakator
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Zakator » Thu May 26, 2011 6:30 pm UTC

Huh. Got Chewbacca Defense from Darths and Droids, decided to try it out after reading xkcd and got it in 12 jumps. Interesting...

Chewbacca Defense -> Chef Aid -> Comedy Central -> Cable television -> Television -> Telecommunication -> Information -> Sequence -> Mathematics -> Quantity -> Property (philosophy) and then, of course, Philosophy. (Interesting how the first four all begin with a C... and then two T's, but oh well. :))

But as mentioned above, many things link into certain concepts like science and maths etc, from whence it's but a small jump to get to philosophy. A central concept to humanity or just a case of reductio ad philosophum? Great nevertheless. :)=


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