0903: "Extended Mind"

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Rotherian
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Rotherian » Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:57 pm UTC

addams wrote:Ok. umm. The North Star? It's not very bright.

The Southern Cross? I been told the northern sky is, better.
If the stars are visible. There are many reasons for not finding the North Star.
It is Never! needed for navigation in cities. Thank God. I can't find it in an urban sky. Can you?



Assuming that a) you are in the northern hemisphere, and b) the Big Dipper is visible, you can find Polaris by one of two ways.

1) Locate the Big Dipper (aka The Plough, the Butcher's Cleaver, the Starry Plough, this constellation). Once the constellation is located, find the stars α UMa (Dubhe) and β UMa (Merak). If picturing the constellation as a spoon, drinking gourd, ladle, etc., those two stars are the ones opposite the end of the of the handle, with Dubhe being at the top of the "cup". Draw an imaginary line from Merak to Dubhe, then continue that line for five additional times the distance between Merak and Dubhe. If you do so, you will find Polaris.

2) Download Google Star Maps to your smart phone and scan a 165-degree arc in the direction you are facing while rotating clockwise very slowly. Eventually, you will locate Polaris. (Depending upon the speed of your rotation, it may require several rotations to locate.)
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Pfhorrest
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:17 pm UTC

Rotherian wrote:Assuming that a) you are in the northern hemisphere, and b) the Big Dipper is visible, you can find Polaris by one of two ways.

1) Locate the Big Dipper (aka The Plough, the Butcher's Cleaver, the Starry Plough, this constellation). Once the constellation is located, find the stars α UMa (Dubhe) and β UMa (Merak). If picturing the constellation as a spoon, drinking gourd, ladle, etc., those two stars are the ones opposite the end of the of the handle, with Dubhe being at the top of the "cup". Draw an imaginary line from Merak to Dubhe, then continue that line for five additional times the distance between Merak and Dubhe. If you do so, you will find Polaris.


Or even easier: if the Big Dipper is visible, the Little Dipper probably is too. The North Star is the end of the handle of the Little Dipper.


And yeah Addams, star maps are not very useful in cities where (A) you can't see the stars thanks to light pollution and (B) streets and local landmarks are more important than absolute geographical directions. But the point was that in ancient times, for people wandering days and days of open seas or flat country with no landmarks to navigate by, realizing that you had "skymarks" ever-present overhead no matter where you were was a big boon.
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Rotherian
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Rotherian » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:08 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Or even easier: if the Big Dipper is visible, the Little Dipper probably is too. The North Star is the end of the handle of the Little Dipper.


I dunno. There have been several times where I could locate the Big Dipper and Polaris, but couldn't resolve the rest of the Little Dipper (without using a telescope or other vision enhancers beyond prescription spectacles).
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Klear
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Klear » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:33 pm UTC

Rotherian wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Or even easier: if the Big Dipper is visible, the Little Dipper probably is too. The North Star is the end of the handle of the Little Dipper.


I dunno. There have been several times where I could locate the Big Dipper and Polaris, but couldn't resolve the rest of the Little Dipper (without using a telescope or other vision enhancers beyond prescription spectacles).


In any case, it's usually:

a) Look up, b) big and/or little dipper, c) you've got Polaris.

The only thing tricky about it is when you spend too much time examining maps and can't shake the feeling that Polaris is supposed to be in the middle of the sky.

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addams
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby addams » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:34 am UTC

You have touched on something that I can only imagine.
It seems I can not imagine what a life under the stars would be like.
I did not believe the story of the North Star, the first time I heard it.
So funny. I was holding out for an alternative hypothesis until I saw the photo. Someone centered the North Star on the lens and left it open all night. Great photo. It made a believer out of me.

The poor guys that noticed the predictable movements of the stars. Cave family and friends asking, "What have you been smoking?"

The star map app (Say that three time fast.) Will be great.

Pfhorrest wrote:[quoute="Rotherian"]Assuming that a) you are in the northern hemisphere, and b) the Big Dipper is visible, you can find Polaris by one of two ways.

1) Locate the Big Dipper (aka The Plough, the Butcher's Cleaver, the Starry Plough, this constellation). Once the constellation is located, find the stars α UMa (Dubhe) and β UMa (Merak). If picturing the constellation as a spoon, drinking gourd, ladle, etc., those two stars are the ones opposite the end of the of the handle, with Dubhe being at the top of the "cup". Draw an imaginary line from Merak to Dubhe, then continue that line for five additional times the distance between Merak and Dubhe. If you do so, you will find Polaris.


Or even easier: if the Big Dipper is visible, the Little Dipper probably is too. The North Star is the end of the handle of the Little Dipper.


And yeah Addams, star maps are not very useful in cities where (A) you can't see the stars thanks to light pollution and (B) streets and local landmarks are more important than absolute geographical directions. But the point was that in ancient times, for people wandering days and days of open seas or flat country with no landmarks to navigate by, realizing that you had "skymarks" ever-present overhead no matter where you were was a big boon.[/quote]
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addams
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby addams » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:31 pm UTC

Ordination to Consencration to Desecration.
Following the rules would have taken me to Solem. That would have been the quick trip to Philosophy.

The Star App is like a very good book.
Jupiter? That thing is Jupiter? Really?

Three wise men following a star? Pfft.
Humans are diurnal. Humans are creatures of the day. Right?
Who walks or sails around at night?
Night after night for generations?
Evolutionary pressure in favor of insomnia?

Salem leads to Philosophy.
Desecration will lead there, too.
Eventually.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

rmsgrey
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

addams wrote:Three wise men following a star? Pfft.
Humans are diurnal. Humans are creatures of the day. Right?
Who walks or sails around at night?
Night after night for generations?
Evolutionary pressure in favor of insomnia?


Maybe they followed the day-star?

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addams
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby addams » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
addams wrote:Three wise men following a star? Pfft.
Humans are diurnal. Humans are creatures of the day. Right?
Who walks or sails around at night?
Night after night for generations?
Evolutionary pressure in favor of insomnia?


Maybe they followed the day-star?

Yes. That's the easy way.
I did it that way.
I, predictably, run out of land.

Jupiter? Nah.
Here in the North it is cold at night.
Jupiter is far away. Does it always catch the light that way?

I was startled by starlight, once upon a time.
I was walking on a new moon night. It was Dark!
My head was down. I was concentrating on the path.
Suddenly there were Stars! They were reflected in a mud puddle.

It made me jump. I am not afraid of stars. Stars coming out of the ground, is a little off putting.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

DarkofLight
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby DarkofLight » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:10 am UTC

Is it a bad thing that "United States Constitution" is a loop and never gets back to philosophy?

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SPACKlick
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby SPACKlick » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:30 am UTC

Xefer's radial map seems to be down, can anyone else confirm? It was working at around 1900 BST last night. Back up now

Also, does anyone know how to get a download of Wikipedia? I don't want to load their servers when I could be working from my own. It's reasonably easy to trim an article down to its name and first non italicised, non parenthesised link, then you could make a reasonably complete map.

Currently the philosophy loop is

Philosophy ->Reality -> Being -> Objectivity (Philosophy) -> Philosophy

And the articles I'm aware of that link directly to philosophy are Subjectivity, Physics and Modern Philosophy. But all of that will change soon enough. (Found more, list stands at Subjectivity, Objectivity (philosophy), Object (philosophy), Modern philosophy, Natural philosophy, Philosophy of mathematics, Type–token distinction, Open source, Proposition)

Loops at
Orientale Province -> Provinces of the Democratic Republic of the Congo -<
United states Constitution -> Supremacy Clause -> Article 6 of the United states constitution-<

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WyldStallyns
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby WyldStallyns » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:38 am UTC

At the time of this posting, England links to Countries of the United Kingdom which then links back to England.
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WibblyWobbly
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby WibblyWobbly » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:46 am UTC

WyldStallyns wrote:At the time of this posting, England links to Countries of the United Kingdom which then links back to England.

I apologize for going OP here, but I just had to say this: I haven't seen your posts before, but I'm pretty sure that's the best choice of username. Ever. And I thought my own wasn't too bad.

RetepBocaj42
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby RetepBocaj42 » Tue May 20, 2014 1:29 am UTC

I've found an exception to the rule stated in the alt-text; interestingly enough, I found it by starting at the xkcd page. I eventually ended up in an endless loop between "newpaper" and "periodical publishing". So that's always fun.

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firesoul31
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby firesoul31 » Fri May 23, 2014 2:14 pm UTC

Wiki wrote:As of May 26, 2011, 94.52% of all articles in Wikipedia lead eventually to the article Philosophy. The remaining 100,000 (approx.) links to an article with no wikilinks or with links to pages that do not exist, or get stuck in loops (all three are equally probable).
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby sehkzychic » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:40 am UTC

Armitando wrote:Alt text: Wikipedia trivia: if you take any article, click on the first link in the article text not in parentheses or italics, and then repeat, you will eventually end up at "Philosophy".


The actual "sink"/"drain" is around around "Knowledge" (oddly enough). It goes Knowledge->Fact->Experience->Know-How->Tacit Knowledge-->Knowledge. Actually, the Philosophy article gets sucked into the Knowledge drain, too. Just like most articles about science (or Game of Thrones, for that matter).
However, there is at least one other independent loop with Lecture->Presentation-->Lecture.

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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby scotty2haughty » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:44 pm UTC

Tried the wiki-walking test to see if I end at "philosophy" but got stuck in a loop between experience, fact, and knowledge.

Started on "walking" and took six jumps to get to knowledge (somewhat close to philosophy).
/s/

airdrik
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby airdrik » Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:16 pm UTC

the Knowlege page has since been "fixed" by linking to awareness
Apprently there was some trouble with some people swapping the links to information and facts, and adding the link to awareness has resolved that dispute (at least for now).

adamlive
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby adamlive » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:23 am UTC

I've been walking the archive while waiting for programs to compile the last couple weeks. I know this is several years old and probably a well-beaten horse, but I tested the "Philosophy" theory and... I'll be darned. I love xkcd.

(Random article)
Tara Lyn Hart
Roblin, Manitoba
Manitoba
Canada
Provinces and Territories of Canada
List of Countries and Dependencies by Area
World
Human
Hominini
Tribe
Biology
Natural Science
Science
Knowledge
Awareness
Consciousness
Quality (Philosophy)
Philosophy

jewish_scientist
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby jewish_scientist » Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:10 pm UTC

'Wikipedia' actually has a very long long chain that goes through 'Fiber', 'Meaning-Making' and 'E.Coli'.

Lothario O'Leary
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Lothario O'Leary » Sun Jun 04, 2017 11:53 pm UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:'Wikipedia' actually has a very long long chain that goes through 'Fiber', 'Meaning-Making' and 'E.Coli'.
I wasn't able to get "E.coli", and I ended up stuck in a loop at "logic" (due to an edit war at "argument").

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orthogon
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:55 am UTC

Lothario O'Leary wrote:an edit war at "argument"

A meta-argument?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Copper Bezel » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:02 am UTC

orthogon wrote:
Lothario O'Leary wrote:an edit war at "argument"

A meta-argument?

Ba-dum TISH

Edit: Unsurprisingly, use-mention distinction gets you back to philosophy pretty quick. XD
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orthogon
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:05 am UTC

Copper Bezel wrote:
orthogon wrote:
Lothario O'Leary wrote:an edit war at "argument"

A meta-argument?

Ba-dum TISH

Edit: Unsurprisingly, use-mention distinction gets you back to philosophy pretty quick. XD

Presumably they're arguing about arguments, though, not simply about the "argument" article. I think I'm tending to the Davidsonian school of thought here. Except for trivial cases in which the referent is literally the sequence of letters making up the word, the distinction is at least highly permeable.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Copper Bezel
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby Copper Bezel » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:31 am UTC

True, presumably they must be arguing about argument as a practice or concept, rather than as an article. I think arguments about individual arguments - and thereby a lot of edit wars in practice - are likely meta-arguments in a sense that is true but not funny, in any case where the editors disagree about the presentation of a particular controversy, but without necessarily taking sides within it.

Argument about argument as it exists as an activity, and not necessarily the term / article that provides / shares its name and refers to it, certainly is meta-argument in a funnier but still true sense.
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jewish_scientist
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby jewish_scientist » Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:57 am UTC

Lothario O'Leary wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote:'Wikipedia' actually has a very long long chain that goes through 'Fiber', 'Meaning-Making' and 'E.Coli'.
I wasn't able to get "E.coli", and I ended up stuck in a loop at "logic" (due to an edit war at "argument").

I just tried it again and got in a loop at Knowledge -> Fact -> Experience -> Knowledge. What really stinks is that Science goes to Knowledge, so now a lot of stuff does not reach Philosophy anymore.

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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby heuristically_alone » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:23 am UTC

Sounds like wikipedia mods are fighting back.
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lookeratterofcartoons
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Re: 0903: "Extended Mind"

Postby lookeratterofcartoons » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:01 am UTC

I tried the wikipedia thing 20 times starting from random articles. 19 trials ended in a closed loop between 'mathematics' and 'mathematical structure'.

The exception was 'Rudolfo de Anda' which takes you immediately to a closed loop between itself and 'La gran aventura del Zorro'.


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