0912: "Manual Override"

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0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:57 am UTC

So:
Image
Title text: "I think you mean 'GNU info override'."
Sorry, Rio-Paris just too fresh in my mind. In fact almost exactly 2 years ago.
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helo darqness
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby helo darqness » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:00 am UTC

But they know what happened now, or almost anyway. So, it's now okay to be cheeky about it.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eternal Density » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:01 am UTC

Not cool, not funny...
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby wisnij » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:05 am UTC

This is not a surprising outcome. Info pages are the worst thing.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:12 am UTC

helo darqness wrote:But they know what happened now, or almost anyway. So, it's now okay to be cheeky about it.


There are big arguments raging here in France right now (news report just a day or so ago) as to whether the bodies should be left where they are (which is what a good proportion of the victims' families want to happen) or brought back up (which is what Air France wants to do). In terms of the grieving process, it's probably just about the worst possible time to find the wreck.

You may now continue with the "where do they bury the survivors?" jokes...
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby glasnt » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:18 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Not cool, not funny...


Agreed. Ash cloud grounding shit all over the place .. I don't want any crashes :/

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby GreatS » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:24 am UTC

Ok great, so I am not the only one who misses the enjoyable part of this :S

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby WizenedEE » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:34 am UTC

Explanation: They typed "man override" which would get them the help pages on how to use the "override" command, rather than executing it.

He's not even talking about a plane crash, so ya'll need to calm down and get back in your seats.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby helo darqness » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:48 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:In terms of the grieving process, it's probably just about the worst possible time to find the wreck.



Please elaborate. It has been 2 years. Grieve on, but its been 2 years. Why is it the worst time to find the wreck?

oh, the anniversary? That is valid, I suppose, but I am very happy they found the wreckage.

Personally, since I have no belief in the soul or afterlife, I don't see any harm in raising the bodies. I think it would bring closure in the long run to families as they know the body was recovered and "put to rest"

/I'm a registered donor for the Institute for Plastination, so with any luck, I will be on display at one of those Bodies exhibits, or at least part of me.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:57 am UTC

I have made a diagram for my reception of the comic.

-------
the joke
-------
|
30 ft
|
-------
my head
-------

I can't really judge it as "good" or "bad" since I don't get it
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby phlip » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:02 am UTC

WizenedEE wrote:Explanation: They typed "man override" which would get them the help pages on how to use the "override" command, rather than executing it.

Futher explanation: it's a pun on the word "Manual", meaning both "by hand, as opposed to automatic", and "instructions for how to use a thing".

"man" is the usual manual (second definition) system for CLI commands in *nix. However, many GNU tools instead have their details in a different system called "info"... which is typically more comprehensive, but more complicated to navigate. The man pages for those tools are usually just a short summary of the options and a note saying to look at the info pages instead, like the text in the comic.

Code: Select all

enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};
void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}
[he/him/his]

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:04 am UTC

Please elaborate. It has been 2 years. Grieve on, but its been 2 years. Why is it the worst time to find the wreck?


I Am Not A Shrink, but I've heard it said that it takes people about 2 years on average to get over a bereavement. So folks were just beginning to move on when, um, it was all brought up again.

I agree it's better to find the wreck than not, but I can sympathise with those who want to leave the bodies where they are. Here at least the tradition is to leave those lost at sea to the sea. A lot of people seem to feel that way, even if they can't necessarily articulate metaphysical reasons for their feelings.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Icepick » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:16 am UTC

helo darqness wrote:Personally, since I have no belief in the soul or afterlife, I don't see any harm in raising the bodies. I think it would bring closure in the long run to families as they know the body was recovered and "put to rest"

/I'm a registered donor for the Institute for Plastination, so with any luck, I will be on display at one of those Bodies exhibits, or at least part of me.

And you like to talk about yourself a lot too...

Anyways, who said the joke was related to the Rio-Paris plane crash ? I see no mention of it... oh, maybe you read this and think it is related to the news and your life... well it's not, it is just a comic, about how nice it is to get redirected to man pages when you need quick help.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby legobenj » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:29 am UTC

I'm going to try a manual override on this plane. Could get a bit technical! Hold on!

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Fixblor » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:34 am UTC

Pilots with Training, should mean No surprise prompts regarding unknown instructions mid-flight.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Unprodigy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:34 am UTC

For those who don't get the joke: It's a really terrible pun. GNU info override > new info overload.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby GulliNL » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:35 am UTC

I know about the plane crash, I know that they recently found the wreckage and I know this must be hard for the people that are grieving.

I also didn't think about it for one second until it was brought up here at the thread. This is why I thought the comic was funny, and still think it is. Come on, this is slapstick people, I can imagine Leslie Nielsen (oh noes he is dead too, what now!?) sitting behind the controls of an aircraft flipping through the pages of a _very_ large printed infofile. That's funny.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:36 am UTC

Icepick wrote:Anyways, who said the joke was related to the Rio-Paris plane crash ? I see no mention of it...


I said it reminded me of AF447. Given that we now know that the autopilot disconnected and most probably left the pilots fumbling around in the flight manuals trying to understand the succession of alarms going off as the plane descended in a stall.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby jesselong » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:06 am UTC

Debian has this policy, that almost every command should have a man page (man in short for manual, you type "man <command name>" and it shows all the help you need in one easy to read page using a pager like less).

Its GNU hip to do documentation in GNU info pages instead of man pages, so a lot of packages dont have man pages, they just have GNU info manuals. So what do Debian devs do? They create a dummy man page that points you to use the GNU info page for the command.

Problem is that GNU info requires you to remember 13 thousand 4 hundred and ninety two different key combinations to navigate, all including Ctrl - Left Meta (wtf is meta? I only got ALT) - Caps - Tab - Shift - F2 + the key hardest to reach while holding all those down (think emacs). Additionally, info pages are strictly hierarchal, so you are always presented with a type of Table of Contents only initially, and you have to navigate through the nodes to find the information you seek, but to do that, you must first learn the correct magic key combinations to activate a link (highlight, press space or enter - BAH! too easy! Think 5 finger key combination).

Good news, you can learn how to do this by reading the, wait for it, GNU info page for GNU info. Long story short, it ends with you swearing and turning to that other cherished unix tool for help - Google.

PS. Get over the plane crash, he's not talking about a real event, he's talking about a situation where you need info NOW, and you must content with GNU info.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Eutychus » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:30 am UTC

jesselong wrote:PS. Get over the plane crash, he's not talking about a real event, he's talking about a situation where you need info NOW, and you must content with GNU info.


I know, I know, I know, but it was the first thing that came to mind when, to my complete surprise, I found nobody else had posted the comic to the forum yet, and I had to find something to say. :oops:

Perhaps we could try and determine whether the plane in the cartoon is a Boeing or an Airbus? :twisted:
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby The Moomin » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:54 am UTC

They would have been better typing "4 8 15 16 23 42" rather than playing Mornington Crescent.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby peteispo » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:58 am UTC

Eutychus wrote:Perhaps we could try and determine whether the plane in the cartoon is a Boeing or an Airbus? :twisted:


No winglets - definitely not an Airbus.
Two long underwing engines suggest an old B737, series 100 or 200 perhaps?
Image

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby jozwa » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:10 am UTC

People connecting this comic to some accident came as a complete surprise to me. I don't remember ever even hearing about that AFF 447.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Klear » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:20 am UTC

GulliNL wrote:Come on, this is slapstick people, I can imagine Leslie Nielsen (oh noes he is dead too, what now!?) sitting behind the controls of an aircraft flipping through the pages of a _very_ large printed infofile. That's funny.


Yeah.. that is funny. This comic sadly no, at least for someone who needs to have the pun explained. I don't mind jokes that I need to read up to understand, but they need to beat least funny afterwards.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Invisiblemoose » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:29 am UTC

jozwa wrote:People connecting this comic to some accident came as a complete surprise to me. I don't remember ever even hearing about that AFF 447.

This has to be troll bait.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Bisqwit » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:22 am UTC

This article is quite spot-on. I have got more than once quite annoyed when I type "man <program>" only to receive a completely useless manual page suggesting to refer to the "info" system related to the software.

Code: Select all

SEE ALSO
       The  full documentation for aclocal is maintained as a Texinfo manual.
       If the info and aclocal programs are properly installed at your site, the command

              info aclocal

       should give you access to the complete manual.


And did I mention, the user interface to GNU info is horrible? Your mileage may vary of course.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby blkballoon925 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:28 am UTC

jesselong wrote:Debian has this policy, that almost every command should have a man page (man in short for manual, you type "man <command name>" and it shows all the help you need in one easy to read page using a pager like less).

Its GNU hip to do documentation in GNU info pages instead of man pages, so a lot of packages dont have man pages, they just have GNU info manuals. So what do Debian devs do? They create a dummy man page that points you to use the GNU info page for the command.

Problem is that GNU info requires you to remember 13 thousand 4 hundred and ninety two different key combinations to navigate, all including Ctrl - Left Meta (wtf is meta? I only got ALT) - Caps - Tab - Shift - F2 + the key hardest to reach while holding all those down (think emacs). Additionally, info pages are strictly hierarchal, so you are always presented with a type of Table of Contents only initially, and you have to navigate through the nodes to find the information you seek, but to do that, you must first learn the correct magic key combinations to activate a link (highlight, press space or enter - BAH! too easy! Think 5 finger key combination).

Good news, you can learn how to do this by reading the, wait for it, GNU info page for GNU info. Long story short, it ends with you swearing and turning to that other cherished unix tool for help - Google.

PS. Get over the plane crash, he's not talking about a real event, he's talking about a situation where you need info NOW, and you must content with GNU info.

Wow... I have to admit this one (being a *nix-related comic) was quite a disappointment. Despite knowing all of this going in, I still don't think the comic is funny. Has nothing to do with a plane crash and I understand what he was trying to convey, but I just "don't get it."

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby DennyMo » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:49 am UTC

My first thought was "Unfortunate timing, given yesterday's blimp accident in Germany." But since I'm pretty sure that accident wasn't the inspiration for the comic, the coincidence doesn't bother me as much as it apparently does some of you. as for the "30 feet over my head" thing, yeah, I just have to accept the fact that Randall doesn't write XKCD simply for my reading pleasure...

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby silverkitty » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:54 am UTC

jesselong wrote:Problem is that GNU info requires you to remember 13 thousand 4 hundred and ninety two different key combinations to navigate, all including Ctrl - Left Meta (wtf is meta? I only got ALT) - Caps - Tab - Shift - F2 + the key hardest to reach while holding all those down (think emacs). ... (highlight, press space or enter - BAH! too easy! Think 5 finger key combination).


Actually, it is "move the cursor with arrow keys to a link, and space or enter to follow it". Or hit "n" for next node if you just want to read them in order like a man page. Tricksy stuff that.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby stib » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:56 am UTC

The Moomin wrote:They would have been better typing "4 8 15 16 23 42" rather than playing Mornington Crescent.

I think that ICAO rules forbid lateral shunts during emergencies on civil flights, without prior authorisation. They would have had to double-switch to Baker Street, before engaging.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:39 pm UTC

DennyMo wrote:as for the "30 feet over my head" thing, yeah, I just have to accept the fact that Randall doesn't write XKCD simply for my reading pleasure...


What's with this masochism on the part of some xkcd fans? It's as if they feel pleasure in acknowledging that Randall is way smarter, way superior and way cooler than them, so they have no right whatsoever to criticise him. What's the matter, people? If you absolutely found no humour in the comic, it may possibly be just because the comic sucked.

But it could have been worse. Way worse.

It could have been a Wikipedia joke.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Endless_Nameless » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:50 pm UTC

If the intention was not to refer to the AF 447 recently blackbox investigation, this comic could have the same GNU joke if it was used a space shuttle (much more complex than an airplane), a car, someone in a missile, someone in an military aircraft, or any other kind of fast transportation. The joke would have the same effect, without the dark humor.

I am all for dark humor jokes, but in my opinion to say this one wasn't inspired in that particular flight is not right.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby KShrike » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:51 pm UTC

jesselong wrote:Debian has this policy, that almost every command should have a man page (man in short for manual, you type "man <command name>" and it shows all the help you need in one easy to read page using a pager like less).

Its GNU hip to do documentation in GNU info pages instead of man pages, so a lot of packages dont have man pages, they just have GNU info manuals. So what do Debian devs do? They create a dummy man page that points you to use the GNU info page for the command.

Problem is that GNU info requires you to remember 13 thousand 4 hundred and ninety two different key combinations to navigate, all including Ctrl - Left Meta (wtf is meta? I only got ALT) - Caps - Tab - Shift - F2 + the key hardest to reach while holding all those down (think emacs). Additionally, info pages are strictly hierarchal, so you are always presented with a type of Table of Contents only initially, and you have to navigate through the nodes to find the information you seek, but to do that, you must first learn the correct magic key combinations to activate a link (highlight, press space or enter - BAH! too easy! Think 5 finger key combination).

Good news, you can learn how to do this by reading the, wait for it, GNU info page for GNU info. Long story short, it ends with you swearing and turning to that other cherished unix tool for help - Google.

PS. Get over the plane crash, he's not talking about a real event, he's talking about a situation where you need info NOW, and you must content with GNU info.


Very good explanation. Lol at Google.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby dp2 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:09 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
DennyMo wrote:as for the "30 feet over my head" thing, yeah, I just have to accept the fact that Randall doesn't write XKCD simply for my reading pleasure...


What's with this masochism on the part of some xkcd fans? It's as if they feel pleasure in acknowledging that Randall is way smarter, way superior and way cooler than them, so they have no right whatsoever to criticise him. What's the matter, people? If you absolutely found no humour in the comic, it may possibly be just because the comic sucked.

But it could have been worse. Way worse.

It could have been a Wikipedia joke.

But it was. He just swapped "Wikipedia" for "GNU Info", hoping you (yes, specifically you) wouldn't notice.

I normally like xkcd and don't bother to comment just because it's off for a day. But this string of "people use Wikipedia for information a lot" comics has gone on for way too long.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Steve the Pocket » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:40 pm UTC

At first I figured I didn't get the joke.

Then I came here and found the explanation.

And I realized, yep, I had more or less gotten the joke the first time. There wasn't more to it than I had assumed.

*shrug*
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby BrianB » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:53 pm UTC

Eutychus wrote:... pilots fumbling around in the flight manuals trying to understand the succession of alarms going off as the plane descended in a stall.


Rule number one of flying a plane - you pay attention first and foremost to flying the plane. From what we've seen so far, there was no reason that plane should have been allowed to aerodynamically stall. Push forward on the stick and pick up speed to keep the plane gliding.

Same thing with the Colgan disaster near Buffalo a few years back. Crashed only a block away from a friend on mine's house in Clarence, NY. The pilots forgot to fly the plane and avoid a stall.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby vodka.cobra » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:21 pm UTC

It took me a second to realize the title was a double entendre.
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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby Posthumane » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:02 pm UTC

BrianB wrote:Rule number one of flying a plane - you pay attention first and foremost to flying the plane. From what we've seen so far, there was no reason that plane should have been allowed to aerodynamically stall. Push forward on the stick and pick up speed to keep the plane gliding.

I think this comment is a bit insulting to the pilots and reeks of armchair quarterbacking. There is a large difference between flying around in a single engine plane on a nice calm day and accidentally stalling it, and the situation here. They were flying IFR (instrument flight rules) at night in a potentially severe thunderstorm with heavy turbulence, and with unreliable airspeed indications due to a failure in the pitot-static system. It would be very difficult to tell the difference between a stall and a high speed dive when your airspeed instruments are all reading different things, in conjunction with a number of alarms. There is some speculation based on the available data that they may have been getting stall and overspeed indications at the same time. Not to mention that a passenger jet at high altitude is already pretty close to stall (see coffin corner) in normal flight, so a stall caused by wind sheer in a heavy thunderstorm is not unlikely. This is why even the heavy iron generally has to go around severe weather rather than through it.

I agree about the Buffalo crash being due to the pilots not being fully aware of the situation, though there were other factors at play there as well (i.e. fatigue).

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby llwang » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:27 pm UTC

I'm always annoyed to see a GNU manual page referring me to the GNU info page. It may be a way to advertise their info system, but I think it's rather irresponsible for them to leave the details out of the man pages. The info system sucks and is hard to use. The man page combined with a good pager is good enough.

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Re: 0912: "Manual Override"

Postby DennyMo » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:31 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
DennyMo wrote:as for the "30 feet over my head" thing, yeah, I just have to accept the fact that Randall doesn't write XKCD simply for my reading pleasure...

What's with this masochism on the part of some xkcd fans? It's as if they feel pleasure in acknowledging that Randall is way smarter, way superior and way cooler than them, so they have no right whatsoever to criticise him. What's the matter, people? If you absolutely found no humour in the comic, it may possibly be just because the comic sucked.

"Masochism"? That's a good one. You're suggesting I come here just to read the jokes I don't get, and am disappointed when I do understand them? That would be odd, wouldn't it...

Actually, my comment was intended as a mild swipe at all the folks who so enthusiastically pontificate on the lack of mirth a given comic induced for them. Maybe the sarcasm would have been clearer if I'd done this:
I just have to accept the fact that Randall doesn't write XKCD simply for my reading pleasure... :roll:

After all, the smiley is everything. :)


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