0915: Connoisseur

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Klear
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Klear » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:47 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
oddtail wrote:Both, actually. I like classical music, very much so, even though my knowledge and appreciation of it is certainly limited. And on the few occasions I've been to opera, I actually liked the way the pieces were composed, how instruments in the orchestra's sounds merged, but the fact that some fat guy was standing on the stage and singing made me think "I can't hear the music because of all that singing". Paradoxically, I often consider the vocals to be the most important part in other genres of music - but I appreciate singers for the emotions they are conveying and the song for the lyrics - NOT for human voice as an instrument. Opera is not famous for lyrics specifically, and it sounds too fake to me to provoke emotions on my part. To my barbaric sensibilities, opera is a mixture of music and theatre - two great tastes that taste horrible together (*).


Yeah, it makes sense. I've heard too little opera, in fact, but I have noticed that opera is not merely "classical music with voices". I've had trouble trying to listen to Wagner, personally, because much of his operas are basically "some lines - [orchestral leitmotif] - some lines - [orchestral leitmotif] - some lines - etc. etc." and so on. Maybe when watched it's great, but listened, it's pretty hard on my ears. But I'm actually fine with the voices themselves.


Try this. That's pretty much the best thing ever as far as I'm concerned.

And you don't have to spend a year locked in a box to see that this version is slow and boring compared to the one by Cecilia Bartoli.

Edit:

Something Awful wrote:This article is part of the Joe Biden Emails series. [...] I get so excited talking about my favorite episodes of the X-Files that I often forget there is a big chunk of sandwich in my mouth.


Don't know which came first, this comic or the article, but it's all the more awesome thanks to the coincidence.

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/joe-biden-dinner.php

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:59 pm UTC

squall_line wrote:
neoliminal wrote:No.

You just had to mention Wikipedia here. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it and now a perfectly good comic is ruined. Destroyed by your vengeful critique and sharp eye. Honestly I would have been more than happy to think about the White Had Guy and the panels layout... but now... now you told me not to think of the Pink Elephant.

Curse you SirMustapha, even if you have cute kids.


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I think Neoliminal was sort of joking on that one. At least it didn't sound serious to me. But yeah, I admit, it was a tasteless, low blow on my part. I'm sorry.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Aedl Foxe » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:54 pm UTC

The reason we have not seen White Hat Guy in the history of the comic is because he spent a year in that box.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby BytEfLUSh » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:55 pm UTC

Call me a nutcase, but this is one of the funniest xkcd comics for... months? Ok, weeks then. Many weeks. I hope it's gonna get better and better again, though it may just be the beer talking through me. :)
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby hansolo22 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:07 pm UTC

Inverse snobbery is just a fancy way of saying the person's a good-for-nothing hipster with nothing better to do. That's why they sing the praises of PBR, High Life, clothes from thrift stores and other things which are judged to be crap pretty much across the board. Or at least way worse than the nice/expensive alternatives.

I was a little disappointed with the vodka myths link from page 1. Why would the Mythbusters word the myth so poorly as to mislead us? It says that even double-blind, they were able to consistently taste improvements on each filtration, and pick it out from the unfiltered rotgut vodka. Which pretty much proves that you can significantly improve the quality of vodka, even if it's cheap, by doing just that. Of course it's not going to taste as good as the premium vodka, which went through 10 times as many distillation and filtration steps, and god knows what processes that make it what it is. But does having no difference chemically preclude them from saying that the vodka improved upon filtration? Or is it just that the myth was poorly worded "... can be turned into high-quality vodka..."?

I thought this was a decent comic, though I agree with the analysis of it being somewhat self-indulgent. I used to smoke lots and lots of pot, and am now a total connoisseur/snob for it, even though I don't smoke much (or at all, depending on season and such). So I really agree with the assertion that anything can become a topic for such critiques, as long as you're exposed to it long enough. However, I don't think that that invalidates the ability to judge items. I can distinguish smell, taste, potency, type of high, etc of some smoke like no one's business. And people who aren't that into it and never were are just like, "what the hell is your problem?"

... I realized I don't have a real point, just kinda rambling. Oh well.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby texphil » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:09 pm UTC

I am not sure if this has been mentioned, but this comic reminds me an awful lot of "James May's Road Trip" on BBCA. The first four panels are from a conversation early in the series. I think White Hat Guy is Oz Clarke and the other guy is James May. The show has helped me to appreciate that something does not have to be posh to be enjoyable. I like cheap wine and cheap coffee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oz_and_James%27s_Big_Wine_Adventure

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:22 pm UTC

Great, now I'm contemplating what mayo symbolizes in Canadian surrealist porn. Farewell, workweek!

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby javajosh » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 am UTC

Great comic, and Randall's observation (which is hardly unique, but worth repeating) is applicable to far more than connoisseurship. It is applicable to most human experience, importantly the ability to solve problems.

A lot of problems arise from choosing the wrong scale at which to understand things or tackle problems. If you zoom in on something too closely, you don't get anything done (and it can be disheartening to realize how little you're actually doing). Zoom out too far, and you can't figure out how to do *anything at all*. For geeks, it is often our vanity prevents us from zooming in far enough (we bite off more than we can chew to look smart). It is our tendency to obsess that causes us to zoom in too far, and we get distracted by irrelevant detail. The most effective geeks know how to balance vanity and obsession - the best geeks transcend both and simply choose the correct scale at will without much fuss.

True snobbery is actually an interesting strategy that's actual purpose is to spread a focus meme. It is aggressive and uses vanity first, obsession later. The best counter-strategy is to become a connoisseur of human behavior, including snobbery. That way, when someone pulls out that strategy, say with wine, you can look at them appraisingly, and say something like, "I am *really* enjoying your attempt to manipulate me into a submissive position within the narrow context of expertise which you have arbitrarily defined. Unfortunately, there's an aftertaste of arrogance with an undercurrent of neediness which ruins the overall effect." Then of course, you walk away.

(I actually did this once at a shopping mall where a very cute Israeli girl was doing her best to sell me some skin cream. She was very good at flirting-without-flirting, complimenting, touching, basically giving a nice, manipulative ego boost for the purpose of selling me. (And did I mention she was very cute?) I allowed it to go on for some time, and complimented her on her skillful manipulation, and actually bought her skin cream as a 'thank you'. She didn't really understand what I said, but that was ok with me. Totally worth it.)
Last edited by javajosh on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:18 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Sappharos » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:11 am UTC

Nobody's bothered to mention how dark it must be in that box? Changing torch batteries would soon become a very interesting hobby. Not to mention becoming a connoisseur of the food somehow provided, and of the varied and interesting smells resulting from living in that box. With those activities to occupy me, why would I care about photos? I would also become an expert at picking my nose and grossing out the other occupant(s).

Another thing. Does this apply if two people are locked in the box together with nothing to occupy them? Do they gradually become uncontrollably obsessed with each other?

Douglas Adam's puddle analogy = win. Instant philosophical checkmate.

And yes, I believe that another culture from another time might indeed appreciate Bieber's music more than Beethoven's. Sad to say, but there is no right or wrong preference, and if they haven't been brought up to appreciate a certain kind of music, if they don't know what classical music is, if they don't understand the 'importance' of diverse structure in music, anything could happen...

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby jbundock » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:24 am UTC

I just wanted you all to know that there is now a facebook page for our vice president eating a delicious mix of bread and various ingredients in between.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:31 am UTC

I only eat mayonnaise if it's on tuna, because I think it's gross on anything else, or on its own for that matter. And yeah, I think what the guy says in the comic is pretty much true.

SirMustapha wrote:Recent studies have also shown that prejudice against wine connoisseurs is mostly bunk, based on misunderstood facts and empty stereotypes.

Slonimsky wrote:I'm glad though, I'd be sad if Randall had a typo in one of his comics...


You missed dozens of opportunities.

The claim that this comic displays prejudice against wine connoisseurs is about as valid as the claim that [url="http://xkcd.com/755/"]#755[/url] displays prejudice against psychology majors and history majors; that is to say, a little bit. It's possible, but not likely. I think he had to pick some type of connoisseur for the purpose of the comic and wine was the first that came to mind because those are the most common, or at least the ones most frequently referred to as "connoisseurs."
As for the typos, could you show an example? That's not me defending Randall, I genuinely can't remember seeing typos, but if you claim there are I believe you and would be interested in seeing them.

americablanco wrote:Find this funny because I somehow related it to Schrödinger's cat when the box was mentioned.

Are they really looking at pictures in the box or only realizing them to fit their experience?

They may or may not be looking at pictures if the box stays closed. If you open the box, the cat is dead, but it's still passive-aggressive towards the guy who praises the mayo pictures.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Eternal Density » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:38 am UTC

Rain water is so much better than tap water.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Kizyr » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:01 am UTC

Maybe I missed it, but has no one yet discovered the Tumbler account created just this afternoon: "500 Still Frames of Joe Biden Eating a Sandwich"?

http://joebideneatingasandwich.tumblr.com/

There you go. KF
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Fixblor » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:11 am UTC

Kizyr wrote:Maybe I missed it, but has no one yet discovered the Tumbler account created just this afternoon: "500 Still Frames of Joe Biden Eating a Sandwich"?


Uninspired, insipid drivel. Worth neither the disk space nor the bandwidth it takes up.

It is most definitely not good for the lols.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby bigchiefbc » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:17 am UTC

I get his point, and largely agree.

Except in beer. God, bud/coors/miller are TERRIBLE.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Ephemeron » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:52 am UTC

Aedl Foxe wrote:The reason we have not seen White Hat Guy in the history of the comic is because he spent a year in that box.


White Hat Guy was in 836 (sickness) as Randall's strawman.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Netreker0 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:39 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
oddtail wrote:To be fair, the middle ground does not make for good comedy - and it's bland enough that a short commentary - like a webcomic - doesn't go well with it. "Things are complicated, there are no clear-cut distinctions and READ A BOOK to find out more" is not how comics work.


You are correct. In fact, my critique is not that Randall is not representing the "middle-ground", but that he's too favourable towards the token guy, so it seems more like Randall trying to defend his own view rather than presenting a genuinely funny situation. Clashing the two extremes and showing the absurd that comes out of it is a good idea, but to me, today's comic doesn't seem to do that.


But isn't the humor in the absurdity of the "proof?" The main way that Token Guy's position is 'favored' is that his hypothesis is ultimately proven true in the comic. However, I doubt many readers would believe Joe Biden pictures would ever become the subject of such intense appreciation, even under experimental conditions. It's funny (to me at least) mainly because TG's position, taken to the extreme, leads to an absurd result. Supporting WHG's position more probably wouldn't have been as funny. "Anything, no matter how banal, can turn bored people into obsessed connoisseurs" just lends itself to more absurd conclusions than "You need effort and knowledge to understand depth, and some things have more depth than others."

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Invertin » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:12 am UTC

I've become like this with cheddar.

No, not cheese, just cheddar. I like all varieties of cheese, but for some reason I can tell different brands of cheddar apart by taste and texture.

I don't have any particular favorite though, it depends on the circumstance.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby DennyMo » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:16 pm UTC

Damnable Lie wrote:You Do realize that this comic could be used to argue that Justin Biber is as good in quality as beethoven.

Do you truly wish to live in that world?

It gets worse: in 25 years Justib Bieber and and Lady Gaga will be the "Golden Oldies"...

I loved the comic. Everybody is a little snob in something (Coffee vs. Tea, TOS vs. TNG, Evian vs. Fiji, Indiana vs. Purdue, comic books vs. graphic novels, etc....), and I don't mind a little fun debate in any of these topics. But, really? You take it that seriously?!?

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Monika » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:43 pm UTC

Slonimsky wrote:Today I learned that connoisseur is not a typo and actually comes from connoistre (which later evolved into connaitre, but at that time the english already stole the word and thus the spelling got isolated).

Oh yeah, German apparently stole it later.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaisseu ... ialiste%29
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaisseur
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby dp2 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:06 pm UTC


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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby iheartsemicolon » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:23 pm UTC

But what does it mean. "Our brains have just one scale, and we resize our experiences to fit."

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Monika » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:24 pm UTC

biodomino wrote:Perhaps this is just the low-hanging fruit, but I took it as a reference to the fact that wine connoisseurship is mostly bunk. A number of studies have demonstrated that supposed wine experts cannot distinguish between basic information such as the origins of wines. Apparently it's more an opportunity to revel in snobbery about a predominantly subjective experience, like one might do with literature or art, except without so much prerequisite knowledge and skills for discernment.

When looking at the first speech bubble I was also thinking it would be about how the same wine with a high price label will be reported to taste better than with a low price label. Cites:
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/27/27065/1.html
http://www.focus.de/wissen/wissenschaft ... 33518.html
http://www.stern.de/wissen/mensch/hirnf ... 07804.html
I think they all refer to just one experiment (with 20 people).

SirMustapha wrote:Recent studies have also shown that prejudice against wine connoisseurs is mostly bunk, based on misunderstood facts and empty stereotypes.

I would be interested in citations.

SirMustapha wrote:
neoliminal wrote:No.

You just had to mention Wikipedia here. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it and now a perfectly good comic is ruined. Destroyed by your vengeful critique and sharp eye. Honestly I would have been more than happy to think about the White Had Guy and the panels layout... but now... now you told me not to think of the Pink Elephant.

Curse you SirMustapha, even if you have cute kids.


I think Neoliminal was sort of joking on that one. At least it didn't sound serious to me. But yeah, I admit, it was a tasteless, low blow on my part. I'm sorry.

Okay, someone clue me in, how does this comic reference Wikipedia?
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby dp2 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

Monika wrote:Okay, someone clue me in, how does this comic reference Wikipedia?

Frame three, word eleven.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby mispeled » Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:55 pm UTC

This comic is so friggin spot on I almost shat myself. I remember writing about this phenomenon about a year and a half ago:

http://mispeled.net/2010/01/25/connoisseurism/

The comic says it better, but it's basically the same idea.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:40 pm UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote:The claim that this comic displays prejudice against wine connoisseurs is about as valid as the claim that [url="http://xkcd.com/755/"]#755[/url] displays prejudice against psychology majors and history majors; that is to say, a little bit. It's possible, but not likely. I think he had to pick some type of connoisseur for the purpose of the comic and wine was the first that came to mind because those are the most common, or at least the ones most frequently referred to as "connoisseurs."


Spring, I hadn't made myself clear on my post. I was talking about "prejudice" not from the comic, but from some posts in this thread. It was a reference to a post that said "studies have shown that wine connoisseurship is largely bunk" or something like that. It's silly when "studies" are used as base for prejudice and stereotyping.

SpringLoaded12 wrote:As for the typos, could you show an example? That's not me defending Randall, I genuinely can't remember seeing typos, but if you claim there are I believe you and would be interested in seeing them.


Randall pretty much always fixes the typos as soon as people in the threads start complaining. The most egregious case I remember is on the "affects/effects" comic, in which he had made a gross typo, which pretty much killed the comic.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:42 pm UTC

Netreker0 wrote:But isn't the humor in the absurdity of the "proof?" The main way that Token Guy's position is 'favored' is that his hypothesis is ultimately proven true in the comic. However, I doubt many readers would believe Joe Biden pictures would ever become the subject of such intense appreciation, even under experimental conditions.


I don't think so either, but did you see the alt-text? It seems to hammer Randall's point even further.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Ephemeron » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:10 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
SpringLoaded12 wrote:As for the typos, could you show an example? That's not me defending Randall, I genuinely can't remember seeing typos, but if you claim there are I believe you and would be interested in seeing them.


Randall pretty much always fixes the typos as soon as people in the threads start complaining. The most egregious case I remember is on the "affects/effects" comic, in which he had made a gross typo, which pretty much killed the comic.


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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Jave D » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:34 pm UTC

Gammew wrote:Is White Hat Guy a new character?


No. White Hat Guy is not a character of any sort, and there's nothing new about him. Move along now, there's nothing to see here.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby philip1201 » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:43 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Netreker0 wrote:But isn't the humor in the absurdity of the "proof?" The main way that Token Guy's position is 'favored' is that his hypothesis is ultimately proven true in the comic. However, I doubt many readers would believe Joe Biden pictures would ever become the subject of such intense appreciation, even under experimental conditions.


I don't think so either, but did you see the alt-text? It seems to hammer Randall's point even further.


The alt-text doesn't attach moral value to what it says. "Our brains have one size and we shape our experiences to fit, which is great because we can find awesomeness in everything from science to hula-hooping. (It's just that science is better because it works in getting us new stuff and do more stuff)" is as valid an extension as "Our brains have one size and we shape our experiences to fit, which is sad because we get as much satisfaction from ruling nations as from looking at pictures of Joe Biden".

The alt-text is simply a factual observation. It can be agreed with or disagreed with independently from the moral judgment whether specialization is better than generalization, or what other scale we should fit our minds to. This particular comic is against specialization to the exclusion and dismissal of other things. Merely disagreeing with that kind of specialization however, as the Randall lookalike is doing, does not mean you can't specialize yourself, even to the exclusion of all other things. It merely means that dismissing people as shallow because they are not specialized in the areas you are specialized in is wrong. See #793 for him making the same critique.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Monika » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:26 pm UTC

dp2 wrote:
Monika wrote:Okay, someone clue me in, how does this comic reference Wikipedia?

Frame three, word eleven.

Oops.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby BlueLaughter » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:42 pm UTC

biden2: Sandwich too small, hard to tell if he's eating a sandwich or eating a tie.
biden3: not as well lit, and misses the delicacy of the sandwich.
biden4: too busy in front.
biden5: Biden seems displeased, and it feels like more of an Obama picture.

My favourite is the first picture. In it, both Biden and the sandwich are clearly focused on, well-lit and colourful, and Biden shows the passion of what can only be, "This is an amazing sandwich."

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby neoliminal » Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:51 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
squall_line wrote:
neoliminal wrote:No.

You just had to mention Wikipedia here. I didn't notice it until you mentioned it and now a perfectly good comic is ruined. Destroyed by your vengeful critique and sharp eye. Honestly I would have been more than happy to think about the White Had Guy and the panels layout... but now... now you told me not to think of the Pink Elephant.

Curse you SirMustapha, even if you have cute kids.


Click on user's name.

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I think Neoliminal was sort of joking on that one. At least it didn't sound serious to me. But yeah, I admit, it was a tasteless, low blow on my part. I'm sorry.


I wouldn't think of turning my back on a foe.

No, SirMustapha has respectable opinions and his viewpoint is one I enjoy reading even when I disagree. This was just a funny post by him because he actually liked the comic and couldn't resist adding in one negative. :P

Continue on SirMustapha. And in the future please use the lower case for my alias. My alias is not deserving of initial caps.
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby Gye » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:32 pm UTC

BlueLaughter wrote:biden2: Sandwich too small, hard to tell if he's eating a sandwich or eating a tie.
biden3: not as well lit, and misses the delicacy of the sandwich.
biden4: too busy in front.
biden5: Biden seems displeased, and it feels like more of an Obama picture.

My favourite is the first picture. In it, both Biden and the sandwich are clearly focused on, well-lit and colourful, and Biden shows the passion of what can only be, "This is an amazing sandwich."

You do the third image a grave disservice! No other picture captures the drama of the act of eating so well.

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:43 pm UTC

neoliminal wrote:Continue on SirMustapha. And in the future please use the lower case for my alias. My alias is not deserving of initial caps.


Understood. But now you made me feel guilty for having two letters in caps in my name. :oops:

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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby jpk » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:29 am UTC

Some people really enjoy wine - I love drinking wine with those people, and trying to figure out what it is they're getting about it that I'm not. Some people really enjoy knowing a lot about wine at you - they're not so much fun. Me, I'm happy with a $10-$15 bottle, or less - I do taste differences between them, but I'll be damned if I can taste the difference between one grape and another. Mostly I drink for the conversation that usually goes with it. I can open a beer or two at my computer while I'm hacking away at something, but I'm not going to drink a bottle of wine without at least one other person to share it with.

bigjeff5
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby bigjeff5 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:55 am UTC

doctorrobert13 wrote:Ugh I hate this line of thinking. Any schmuck can tell the difference between a bottle of Two Buck Chuck and a nice $12 bottle. It's not a matter of getting used to it. There are real differences in the quantity of acid, composition, aftertaste etc. Robots have been programed to tell the difference. It's entirely chemical. And by and large humans don't like heavily acidic or vinegary tastes. Now whether there is a difference between a $15 bottle and a $300 bottle is debatable. Even some of the more snobby wine connoisseurs will admit that on the higher registers it becomes a matter of familiarity knowledge. But there IS a difference for lower end wines.

And this applies to most things. This type of thinking negates the common traits that dictate what we consider to be 'good taste', whether its aesthetic or chemical, which certainly does exist otherwise we would all be living in Soviet style concrete blocks eating nutrient rich mush all day.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster

About 25% of people are non-tasters and could barely be expected tell the difference between wine and grape juice by any measure other than sweetness.

50% of people are medium tasters and could be expected to tell the difference between wines of different types by flavor (Pinot Noir, Chardonnay, Riesling, etc), but not much beyond that.

Only about 25% of people are super tasters and could really be expected to distinguish between years and vineyards of the various wines.

It isn't a problem with the way people think. People literally have different physical abilities with regards to their sense of taste. If you happen to be a super taster and can actually tell the difference between good wine and REALLY good wine, then good on you. Enjoy your wine and have a bit of fun at the expense of those who fake it, which is what most wine snobs do (fake it, that is - as has been validated by more than a few wine studies). It's best if a friend is a super taster as well, so you can both have a laugh as you go on about the butteriness of a wine that has no butter note while the wannabe snobs stumble over each other to describe the non-existent flavor.

Myself, I believe I fall somewhere among the medium tasters. I like to think I'm on the upper end of that, but I don't think I am. My favorite wine is any Chianti over about $20 or so, beyond that I can't taste the difference. I love Scotch, and prefer lowland scotch, but distinguishing between different lowlands is difficult, even when I have both of them sitting in front of me.

By the way, if you are a super taster and don't like your job, go hit up a brewery or distillery or vineyard. They pay good money for talented tasters.

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Monika
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Re: 0915: "Connoisseur"

Postby Monika » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:44 am UTC

pbnjstowell wrote:(Quotation marks... you forgot them.)

And they are still missing.

*twitch*

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stib
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby stib » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:36 pm UTC

I spent most of my university and post-university unemployment years studiously avoiding developing a taste for wine, beyond learning to avoid the stuff that was actually poisonous. I couldn't afford to buy expensive bottles of wine so I figured I'd be much happier if I couldn't tell that I was drinking crap (those were the grim days before everybody over the age of 50 in Australia decided that it would be a lark to spend their retirement money on starting a vineyard. Now a bottle of fairly good quality wine is cheaper than a bottle of milk). I must admit that I did develop a preference for Morris Pressings in the four litre cask. Sooo much more full bodied and complex, with richer fruit aromas and flirtatious hints of tobacco and plum, not like that inferior stuff in the five litre casks.

Turns out the whole wine appreciation thing is a scam anyway, as Frédéric Brochet showed: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/02/24/fine-wine/
http://www.academie-amorim.com/us/laureat_2001/brochet.pdf

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SirMustapha
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Re: 0915: Connoisseur

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:07 pm UTC

stib wrote:Turns out the whole wine appreciation thing is a scam anyway, as Frédéric Brochet showed: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2010/02/24/fine-wine/
http://www.academie-amorim.com/us/laure ... rochet.pdf


This is the kind of misinterpreted generalisation that I don't like.

The first link concludes not that "the whole thing is a scam", but that expectation has a much bigger value than most people are willing to accept, and it can powerfully influence the "thing" in question. You are trying to demolish the entire thing without having proper justification: yes, maybe much of wine appreciation is misguided, but saying the whole thing is a scam just reeks of "I don't understand it, therefore it must be wrong". And you're far from being the only one who does that.

It's not like you have to provide scientific data to back up your theory that "I don't get this thing". You don't have to get it, it's okay.


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