0930: "Days of the Week"

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rhomboidal
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby rhomboidal » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:31 pm UTC

Love to see this as an exhibit ride at Epcot.

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SirMustapha
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:21 pm UTC

Randall put effort into this comic??... well, yeah, maybe writing the same phrase 50 times does demand a tad of effort, but if you have no clue on what you're actually doing, it's very likely that all your effort shall go to waste.

Cairns824
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Cairns824 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:23 pm UTC

...I found the graph extremely interesting and easy to read. All you have to do is follow one line at a time. How is that hard?

I cannot fathom how so many people are complaining about the layout... It's intelligent and artistic while maintaining functionality. (And not sacrificing one bit of it!)

I'm disappointed that the discussion here is completely uninteresting. I came here to find nice discussion of the cool topic, not of some random non-issue. :(

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Hirg » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

As a graph, this is horrid. The information is poorly presented and difficult to decipher to the point where the graph is an eyesore, no analysis of the data is included, and unrelated data sets are plotted on the same plane. Verdict: epic failure.

But xkcd is not an effing scientific journal. It's a webcomic.

As a webcomic, today's xkcd is great. It provides amusement by taking up a few minutes of my time. It entertains, it's pretty and colourful and just downright cool-looking, and it's something I can repost on facebook to show my more gullible friends how intelligent and/or internet hip I am because I took the time to understand it (not that I would do that or anything, but I know people who do). Verdict: success.

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BrianB
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby BrianB » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:25 pm UTC

Jakell wrote:I'm kinda sad that the week progresses in a clock-wise fashion, while in polar graphs theta increases in a counter-clockwise fashion...


That's just silly. Look at a calendar. Sunday is on the left and Saturday is on the right.

Now take that calendar line and fold Sunday around and under (and do the same with Saturday) until they meet. Voila - a graph that you can generally read from left to right like a calendar.

Makes perfect sense to me.

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McClow
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby McClow » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:51 pm UTC

I didn't hate today comic, I just didn't love it. It should have been easier to read. Perhaps a bit more exciting.

Xami
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Xami » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

This is a webcomic - not a company meeting on Tuesday. This wasn't designed for pointy haired bosses. It was designed for people who want to be nerd sniped.
I like it.

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SpringLoaded12
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
Tigerrrrr wrote:It's a cross between data representation and something artsy and fun - and it doesn't have *all* the characteristics of either... just enjoy


But just how is one supposed to enjoy a chart comic without being able to understand well what it represents? Just because it's "artsy" doesn't meant it doesn't need to be readable, unless you're one of those who think that True Are is Incomprehensible. In my very honest opinion, if you're advocating that one should "enjoy" a chart comic without understanding it, you're just being a fanboy, because it's perfectly possible to be artsy and fully understandable -- one just needs to pull his head out of the "my fans love me and I am awesome" land and start putting a little more care and effort into his work. Did Randall seriously stop, take a long, cold look at his comic and then thought "yes, this is exactly what I want? And if a comic like THIS is up to Randall's standards, why suddenly go all "artsy" today? To sell posters, I guess.

I agree with you on this one, chart comics should display information in a way that is easy for people to understand, especially when there are other strips in xkcd's history that advocate making charts correctly.
True Art is Incomprehensible is bullshit. Anyone who claims it to be true has never read The Emperor's New Clothes.
"A long, cold look"? People are supposed to look at their own work coldly? Hmm...
I still think it's possible though that Randall isn't a narcissistic douchenozzle, an idea that you apparently abandoned a long time ago.
Lastly, note that the quality of each strip of a webcomic will not remain absolutely uniform throughout that webcomic's life. Many comics undergo Art Evolution (compare the quality of the lines in Randall's early stick figures to the ones today, and the shape consistency. Early comics had rough lines and proportions often varied; now the lines are very smooth and solid, and proportions remain consistent, with the occasional detached head), though that isn't the cause here; xkcd is normally black and white so your example comic was that way by default, and didn't need color to become more readable. Had all the data curves in today's comic been black, it would have been much harder to read.
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby 3rdTex » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:31 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Must be a Thursday.

I never could get the hang of Thursdays.


Genius.

Also, a quick search on Google:

I could never get the hang of ...
<Fridays> 8 results
<Saturdays> 1 result
<Sundays> 8 results
<Mondays> 124 results
<Tuesdays> 739 results
<Wednesdays> 102 results
<Thursdays> 56.600 results approximately

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby MWS » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:33 pm UTC

"Black <day>" has interesting results. Better is "<day> bloody <day>".

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby UnderSampled » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:02 pm UTC

For anyone who wanted it, Here is a version of it depolarized:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5397/depolarized0930.png

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3rdTex
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby 3rdTex » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:35 pm UTC

The more I look at this graph, the more I like it. I'm beginning to find some interesting things. For example, apart from the extreme suckyness of Thursdays, the "<day> sucked" and the bleeding <day> lines have pretty similar formats.

I've been looking at Thursdays for half an hour straight now, with no results whatsoever. If somebody finds some other notable aspect of that day, please inform me.

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UnderSampled
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby UnderSampled » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:52 pm UTC

3rdTex wrote:If somebody finds some other notable aspect of that day, please inform me.


The Earth (in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) was destroyed on a Thursday, hence the quote "This must be Thursday. I never could get the hang of Thursdays."

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Fixblor
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Fixblor » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:16 pm UTC

ellbur wrote:Edit: Or maybe he's looking from the other side of the screen.


That explains it.
...
Anyway,

What about a string that utilizes the deity or astronomical body that the day was named after:

Sun ___2,730,000,000
Moon ___999,000,000
Tyr ______21,400,000
Odin ____ 44,700,000
Thor ___ 400,000,000
Freyja ____4,810,000
Saturn __181,000,000

I'm sure some will argue that Frijjō is whom Friday is really named after (so says Wikipedia, so it must be) ...
but a meager 9,680 hits isn't even close to being representative of her modern incarnation as the Friday (so says Google, so it must be).

:EDIT:
Question: When did Google start rounding the number of search results?
They used to show exact numbers for even the most grotesquely humungous number of hits.
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zocky
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby zocky » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:30 am UTC

Great comic, but maybe it would've been a bit easier to follow if the lines were solid colored bands, and the text was written on them in white.

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby Tyrannosaur » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:46 am UTC

Jakell wrote:I'm kinda sad that the week progresses in a clock-wise fashion, while in polar graphs theta increases in a counter-clockwise fashion...


Except it's not a polar graph, it's a graph of periodic time. Clocks go clockwise (ha) too. It would make less sense going the other way.

Edit: it IS a type of polar graph, with time being theta. My argument still holds.
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby dash » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:44 am UTC

Just because something is difficult does not mean it is worth doing. A lot of work went into this, clearly.

I thought this comic was pretty weak.

The timeline ones, LOTR, star wars, that one really came off. This one didn't.
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Richard. » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:52 am UTC

I like this comic. It's quite a neat representation. Could be a poster!
we live in a beautiful world.

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby nmp303 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:56 am UTC

Tigerrrrr wrote:Come on guys, the analysis is taking the fun out of today's comic. It's supposed to be entertaining. It's a cross between data representation and something artsy and fun - and it doesn't have *all* the characteristics of either... just enjoy, and if you don't, well, not everything is for everyone. See what Friday brings. If you don't like that either, break up with your significant other and get drunk while listening to Rebecca Black or something.

I think for a significant portion of XKCD readers the over-analysis is the real fun of it. You're right: the comic is neither good art nor proper data representation, it's just a mildly interesting way to kill a few minutes of your day, as is the conversation it sparked. At least, that's how I treat it.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Soral » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:01 am UTC

I've enjoyed both the comic itself and all the remakes (3 so far (I think)).

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Farabor » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:39 am UTC

As a non visual math geek, this comic was torture for me. I already have a problem with polar graphs, and the tiny text and colors and density...yeah.

On the plus side, the nice person who made it into a legend and solid line format allowed me to get a bit of understanding from it!

So yeah.....Love you, XKCD.....but this one is really hard to "get" for us visually challenged types.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby AboutToFly » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:02 am UTC

It's odd that Friday is the most popular break up day, I thought Friday you're in love.
Theorem (Huneke-Hochster). We don't know much about anything.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby McClow » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:24 pm UTC

dash wrote:Just because something is difficult does not mean it is worth doing. A lot of work went into this, clearly.

I thought this comic was pretty weak.

The timeline ones, LOTR, star wars, that one really came off. This one didn't.


Exactly. This dude sums it up perfectly.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby jqavins » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:36 pm UTC

AboutToFly wrote:It's odd that Friday is the most popular break up day, I thought Friday you're in love.

Good point. On reflection, I'd've thought Monday would be big for breakups. "We spent the whole weekend together and [we fought all the time | he (she) hardly talked to me | I didn't get any | the Saturday night fuck was lousey | we found out that we have nothing in common | all I could think about was you | it sucked like a Thursday | <whatever>]." Then on Monday the axe falls. But such is the value of research; I'd've thought that, but I'd've been wrong.
-- Joe
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McClow
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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby McClow » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:58 pm UTC

jqavins wrote:
AboutToFly wrote:It's odd that Friday is the most popular break up day, I thought Friday you're in love.

Good point. On reflection, I'd've thought Monday would be big for breakups. "We spent the whole weekend together and [we fought all the time | he (she) hardly talked to me | I didn't get any | the Saturday night fuck was lousey | we found out that we have nothing in common | all I could think about was you | it sucked like a Thursday | <whatever>]." Then on Monday the axe falls. But such is the value of research; I'd've thought that, but I'd've been wrong.


Or it could be "I hate this bitch/bastard and I want to have fun this weekend, gotta dump her/him now or my weekend is ruined."

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby kjsharke » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:03 pm UTC

Tyrannosaur wrote:
Jakell wrote:I'm kinda sad that the week progresses in a clock-wise fashion, while in polar graphs theta increases in a counter-clockwise fashion...


Except it's not a polar graph, it's a graph of periodic time. Clocks go clockwise (ha) too. It would make less sense going the other way.


Chemists often use Mulliken notation rather than Dirac, Economists put the independent variable on the vertical axis, current flows from positive to negative, time goes clockwise. These are things you just have to learn to live with.

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mojacardave
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby mojacardave » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:28 pm UTC

Tub wrote:
Bellerophon wrote:I need a version I can rotate with my mouse around the centre. Someone! Internet magic me this thing!

Done!

http://www.authmann.de/xkcd930/

(yeah, newly registered, can't linkify URLs yet)


Surprised nobody has commented on this awesomely magic (and quickly produced) piece of modification.

Also, yeah, it'd be easier to read this with solid lines, but suck it up people. It's not like it's actually particularly DIFFICULT to read, it's just a bit busy. I love the repeated text lines: they add a level of detail that makes the comic more striking.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby adaviel » Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:20 pm UTC

Well, I think it's cool. Certainly easier to understand than a government report.

I expected more bias in "got laid". Hmm. It seems if you include the quotes in google search ("got laid..") cf (got laid) you get a different picture with frequency steadily rising to Saturday. Too lazy to redraw it all, at least with the text loops.
See http://andrew2.triumf.ca/weekdays.gif

It seems also that Sunday is the most likely day to get murdered.

Reminds me of a passage in a book, I think about a Welsh miner:
"All our kids were conceived on the Sabbath"
"How do you know that?"
"Weekdays he were too tired, Saturdays he were too drunk"
Guess that doesn't apply now with our cushy mechanised lifestyle

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby Tub » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:20 pm UTC

mojacardave wrote:Surprised nobody has commented on this awesomely magic (and quickly produced) piece of modification.

That's because it was my first post and it got stuck in the moderation queue. Thanks for quoting it and bringing it to others' attention!
Not that fiddling with it wasn't enough reward, but it's always nicer when others can enjoy it as well.

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:17 am UTC

Tub wrote:
mojacardave wrote:Surprised nobody has commented on this awesomely magic (and quickly produced) piece of modification.

That's because it was my first post and it got stuck in the moderation queue. Thanks for quoting it and bringing it to others' attention!
Not that fiddling with it wasn't enough reward, but it's always nicer when others can enjoy it as well.

I'm glad I revisited this thread, that thing is awesome. How did you make that?
"It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield." "Opposite over hypotenuse, dipshit."

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby hujackus » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:00 am UTC

Bartimaeus46 wrote:http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6012/5980451613_6b26ce0d80_b.jpg

A little edit i made. Uses coloured lines and a legend. Tbh, i prefer the original.

Tub wrote:
Bellerophon wrote:I need a version I can rotate with my mouse around the centre. Someone! Internet magic me this thing!

Done!

http://www.authmann.de/xkcd930/

(yeah, newly registered, can't linkify URLs yet)

UnderSampled wrote:For anyone who wanted it, Here is a version of it depolarized:

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5397/depolarized0930.png

Nice work guys.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby TaylorP » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:07 am UTC

I almost like the depolarized version better, minus the stretching at the bottom. Both look good, but I think it's easier to see the trends in the dataset when they're graphed on rectangular coordinates.

Tub's rotating display is especially cool, awesome job with that! :)

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:47 am UTC

unus vox wrote:The comic was interesting to read in itself, but the real joy here is reading responses by pedants, giving 50 reasons why a graph is done poorly.
Spoiler:
Image

Shouldn't those axes be reversed?
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby kekrre » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:13 am UTC

Tyrannosaur wrote:
Jakell wrote:I'm kinda sad that the week progresses in a clock-wise fashion, while in polar graphs theta increases in a counter-clockwise fashion...


Except it's not a polar graph, it's a graph of periodic time. Clocks go clockwise (ha) too. It would make less sense going the other way.

Edit: it IS a type of polar graph, with time being theta. My argument still holds.


Except it's NOT a type of polar graph. I'm actually surprised nobody has mentioned this. Even though the days of the week cycle, the way that the information is presented (and, indeed, the way the information exists - as discreet aggregate data points for each day as a set of all days for which data exists, and not a continuum) means that this is appropriately a Radar Chart, a.k.a. a Pokemon stat chart.

Because the data is discrete and not continuous, it makes no sense to even think of displaying it in a polar chart - even if you wanted to view the data as a continuous progression on distinct days, you would have to allow for the fact at some Thursday "A" is not identical to some Thursday "B", even though they are the same "day", in the same manner by which sin(tau) is equal to sin(2*tau), despite the latter representing a different point around a circle. It's important to remember that just because the days of the week cycle doesn't mean that time cycles.

Thus, a truly polar day of the week chart would have to differentiate between weeks and you would end up with a set of aggregate step data in the time continuum representing "Thursday, July 28, sucked", "Thursday, August 4, sucked", etc.

Because the data set is a discrete value representing the sum total of all Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays, etc indexed by Google (and excluding the future), this data could also be presented in a bar chart (which is essentially what the "de-polarized" version of this chart is showing us - if you ignore the continuous lines and plot each data set as a bar where it crosses the days, you get the same information in a much easier to read graph).

And so all that means that the curves have no interpolated value between, say, "Monday" and "Tuesday". Typically on a radar chart, one would use straight lines to connect the data points for each discrete item. IMO, using curvy lines confuses people because one would naturally assume a continuous line represents continuous data.

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Hughes » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:54 am UTC

...You know, I wanted a poster of this until someone pointed out the vague penis shape in it. <_< So thanks for that.

P.S. Glad to know I can always rely on the XKCD forums for my tri-weekly dose of narcissism. <3

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby mojacardave » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:39 am UTC

Tub wrote:Not that fiddling with it wasn't enough reward


I think you pretty much summed up the essence of the average XKCD reader... :)

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby Tub » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:41 pm UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote:How did you make that?

Try right click -> view source. It's simple javascript/dhtml which I hacked up. One of my jobs is as a web programmer, so I know my way around that.

I needed some google searches on css transforms/rotations to get as many browsers supported as possible, I used a tool to create the imagemap and I needed an image editor to grab the color values and to read the data points. Yes, I had to populate the "lineoffsets" array by hand, since randall didn't provide his data and I didn't want to bother him. That part was less fun than the others..

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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby Eternal Density » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:28 am UTC

Another search suggestion: <day>'s child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0NyIalFDjc

nmp303 wrote:
hetas wrote:I've never heard of Rebecca Black but it can't be a good sign that youtube has so many parodies of her song that I can't find the original. If there even is one...

Well, I can't promise that this will be helpfull (video sharing sites are blocked at the office), but this seems like it might be the original.

If not, it might be a little hard to find, because I see Wikipedia says she had the original removed from Youtube for copyright reasons.

Hope that helps.
Irony that there's a zillion parodies but the original was removed for copyright reasons :P
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Re: 930: Days of the Week

Postby RebeccaRGB » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:55 am UTC

Eternal Density wrote:Irony that there's a zillion parodies but the original was removed for copyright reasons :P

Even more ironically, wasn't the original uploaded by the company that produced it (Ark Music Factory)?
Stephen Hawking: Great. The entire universe was destroyed.
Fry: Destroyed? Then where are we now?
Al Gore: I don't know. But I can darn well tell you where we're not—the universe!

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Re: 0930: "Days of the Week"

Postby Coffee » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:01 am UTC

What, no Happy Days references?
Far away boys, far away boys, away from you now.
I'm lying with my sweetheart, in her arms I'll be found.


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