0933: "Tattoo"

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meat.paste
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby meat.paste » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:56 pm UTC

In this thread, I've seen the radiation therapy described as gamma rays, protons, and electrons. I do not see how they are the same thing.

If I did the math right, the electrons in the beam are at 7.6 MeV., A beam of protons moving at that same speed would have an energy of 13,900 MeV. I presume the correct particle type is an electron (as Randall stated in the original alt-text). The destruction of the cells comes from the Bremsstrahlung radiation and not from the electrons themselves?

Any info on the current of the beam? Clearly, it's high enough to kill a horse, if unfocused.
Huh? What?

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BrianB
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby BrianB » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:11 pm UTC

meat.paste wrote:In this thread, I've seen the radiation therapy described as gamma rays, protons, and electrons. I do not see how they are the same thing.

If I did the math right, the electrons in the beam are at 7.6 MeV., A beam of protons moving at that same speed would have an energy of 13,900 MeV. I presume the correct particle type is an electron (as Randall stated in the original alt-text). The destruction of the cells comes from the Bremsstrahlung radiation and not from the electrons themselves?

Any info on the current of the beam? Clearly, it's high enough to kill a horse, if unfocused.


Read this post

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby jpk » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:14 pm UTC

Nescio wrote:I'm embarassed: humans are so judgmental.


Judgement is a feature, not a bug.

compro01
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby compro01 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:22 pm UTC

Endless Mike wrote:One in particular was when he was off-duty visiting a friend in the RADAR room (I believe - maybe just sensor room, but anyway). His friend says "Hey watch this!" and pulls a seagull up on some monitor, presses a button, and the seagull just falls out of the sky. He cooked it mid-air with...whatever it was.


the main radar. the AN/SPY-1 radar system used on aegis ships (e.g. the US's ticonderoga class) can blast 6 megawatts down a 1 degree cone and operate on roughly the same frequency range as a microwave oven, so it will cook things just fine.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby lly » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

jpk wrote:
Nescio wrote:I'm embarassed: humans are so judgmental.


Judgement is a feature, not a bug.


"Showing judgement" vs. "being judgmental."

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby ShortChelsea » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:00 pm UTC

Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.


Did your parents not give you enough attention as a child that you have to troll for it on a forum for cancer?

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Schema » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:41 pm UTC

Eternal Density wrote:I haven't read it for years (lost interest and cutdown on webcomics in general) but in any case I accidentally reminded myself of this

I was at a family reunion in Utah like that once (minus the incest, thank goodness). But nearly everyone there had some form of cancer and they talked about it endlessly. Fortunately they're not direct relatives. I'm still super cautious.

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BrianB
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby BrianB » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:02 pm UTC

ShortChelsea wrote:...on a forum for cancer?


Well, technically, this is a forum for a webcomic. I'm sure there are other forums proper directly related to cancer.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby kevinl » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:45 pm UTC

My wife just finished her radiation treatment, and this cartoon shows exactly the attitude she has AFTER we went through all the uncertainty of the severity of the cancer, what the treatment option were, what the recurrence rates were, etc. It was the scariest time in our marriage.

In the meantime, she has posted this in her workplace, has sent it on to friends, and is probably going to give a copy to her radiologist. If it were on a t-shirt, I'd buy it for her, my mom, aunt and all the other survivors in my family.

Thank you for this cartoon.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby fullymad » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:58 pm UTC

meat.paste wrote:In this thread, I've seen the radiation therapy described as gamma rays, protons, and electrons. I do not see how they are the same thing.

If I did the math right, the electrons in the beam are at 7.6 MeV., A beam of protons moving at that same speed would have an energy of 13,900 MeV. I presume the correct particle type is an electron (as Randall stated in the original alt-text). The destruction of the cells comes from the Bremsstrahlung radiation and not from the electrons themselves?

Any info on the current of the beam? Clearly, it's high enough to kill a horse, if unfocused.


the majority of LINACS use variable energies, we can treat with 6, 10, 15 and 20 MeV electrons, or 6/10/15/20 MV x-rays(on the machine I use, other LINACS have different energies available to them.)

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby SpringLoaded12 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:10 am UTC

ctsketch wrote:
I'm embarassed: humans are so judgmental. So you see someone walk down the beach with a tattoo and immediately they put them in a little box that's called "shallow idiots who choose to paint their body with dumb drawings that don't mean anything that I do not know the meaning of". People get tattoos for all kinds of reasons. There's not just the military or religious reasons. Say Mr. Munroe's loved one dies (let's hope not) and he gets a tattoo that means something to the both of them. A little sentence or maybe a drawing they both love or a pink unicorn for all I care. Is he now shallow?

The fact is, of 99,9999% of all tattoos, you won't know why people got them. Yeah, a lot of people get them to look cool because they're shallow idiots who think a tribal on their steroid arm is badass, but there are also a lot of people who use it as a way to express themselves. How is it different from giant earrings? Or those big dumb plastic sunglasses? Or a flower in your hair? Do you think everyone with a flower in their hair is a hippy?

Live and let live.


I agree... A random passerby may assume the Tattoo on my forearm says "Dumb American" in Chinese....but..

A. Its not Chinese...technically, its Kanji.
B. I know what it says in Chinese and Japanese and I speak a little and write a little of both languages.
C. Its the name of the school or martial arts I practice and teach. Its very near and dear to me and a big part of my life and the tattoo is a symbol of commitment and dedication and many other instructors bear it.

Making assumptions about tattoos is often poor.

I agree with both of you wholeheartedly. Judging people in general, let alone for tattoos, is instinctive, and wrong. There are times when a quick judgment call will be right, but these seem less frequent than not.
It's a shame that there are some people out there who will get tattoos just for the look of them, especially when they want Kanji or something similar without actually knowing what they're getting means.
(Just to be clear, I'm not referring to you two here; I thought that seemed clear enough but you can never be sure, I've accidentally offended plenty of people in the past)

I hope we do realize here the point of the joke, which is not to mock people who get tattoos. That thread about the "Interdisciplinary" strip from a while back was dreadful, people missing the point on every damn page.
"It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield." "Opposite over hypotenuse, dipshit."

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby cheeney » Fri Aug 05, 2011 12:28 am UTC

Randall, I'm sorry for your trouble. Hope it goes well for you both.

I'm a physicist working in a radiotherapy department and I want to set some things straight (although the description of the linear accelerator as a "Relativistic Particle Cannon" is brilliant!! :D . On reviewing this post, it's a long one :|

Someguitarist wrote:If anyone ever wants to talk about something radiographically related


Radiographically related? And you claim you're a medical physicist? Maybe you are, but I'm guessing you're of the diagnostic imaging variety? The word you wanted is radiological which means the study of radiation and its interactions in tissues/materials. Radiographical relates to the use of radiation for the purposes of obtaining images. You may well be in a good position to discuss "radiographical" issues, but that does not qualify you to start offering advice on radiotherapeutic issues.

Someguitarist wrote:A few pointers as to the discussions above. Radiation therapy is done with a number of tools; electron beam therapy is one of many, as is the use of photons (x-rays). The electrons fired into the body interact with our atoms either interact directly with our DNA, or by creating 'free radicals' in the water around our DNA, which then interact with it. Photon therapy is used because of it's 'Skin-sparring' effects. Essentially, as the photons enter our bodies they create electrons through processes such as the Photoelectric effect and Compton Scattering (And Rayleigh, but that doesn't really do anything), and THOSE electrons then interact with our DNA. So either can be used.


Skin sparing with photons? What about orthovoltage units that are designed to deliver superficial doses with Photons (few hundred kV)?
And on interactions: what about pair production? How about photoneutron production? Oh dear.

Someguitarist wrote:Long story short, there are several different radiographic modalities, the trick is to realize what needs to be used when, and why.

There's that word again. In radiotherapy, nobody is using "radiographic" modalities to treat anything. If they are, leave immediately and demand a refund.

Someguitarist wrote:And if you want to take down the horse, use Alpha particles. Those helium nuclei will get the job done much quicker ;)

Alpha particles have very shallow penetration depths. If you wanted to do any damage, you'd need to ramp up the energies to fairly significant levels (hundreds of MeV) in order to get the penetration to the appropriate depths (i.e. more than just the skin).

For the purposes of equine extermination, the best would be Neutrons. They have dose deposition curves that are similar to megavoltage photons (ensuring a nice dose that's not subject to no Bragg-peak messiness) and their increased weighting factor means that 1Gy of Neutrons will do more damage than 1Gy of Photons. But there's only a few places that have Neutron facilities. A more practical suggestion would be to use a 25-50MV photon unit (about as energetic as is readily available in real-world clinics). You probably want to deliver a fairly high dose, so be sure to ramp up the dose rate to 10Gy/min (again, readily available). And you're going to want to aim at the cerebellum or whatever part of the equine brain controls cardiac function (my knowledge of horse anatomy isn't great).

@meat.paste
Someguitarist's description of the interactions (DNA or radicals) are correct. Bremmstrahlung simply means braking radiation, which is to say: the radiation produced when photons or electrons lose their energy to some material, via processes that can be simply described as a slowing down (attenuation).


@aelfyre
The phenomenon you describe (coppery taste) may be related to the production of ozone as the radiation travels through the air from the machine to the body (and to a lesser extent inside your lungs). If you were able to taste it, then congratulations of the sensitive taste buds, but it's not something that the machine was doing to you directly. It may also have been psychosomatic. Some patients describe a tingling or a warming or other sensations, but none of these can actually happen. Rather, the patient is aware that the machine is on, and assumes that radiation should feel like something. It doesn't.

one last thing: your assertion about the other posters taste buds getting fried is incorrect. Acute effects (the early ones) actually take some time to kick in (anywhere between days and weeks) [as distinct from late effects which take months to years], and depending on what part of the head and neck region was being treated, the oral cavity may not have been directly exposed.


Just to clarify - Gamma Rays and X-Rays are the same in that they're both photons. The distinction between their origin (nuclear decay vs bremsstrahlung/characteristic x-ray production) is often overlooked. Their interactions with matter are identical.


fullymad has provided a good description of setup, including details of why some patients (usually head/neck) would not have tattoos.
(One minor point: I note that it's not always a Tungsten target that's used - at least one manufacturer had been using Gold targets until only very recently, so there's probably a few linacs out there that still have them (if they haven't been replaced on a mandatory basis).)


The very best of luck to all going through a course of treatment. It's not going to be easy - anything worth doing never is, but take any and all medications that they offer you and obey all care/preparation instructions to the letter - these have been developed over time and with considerable effort and you don't want to mess that up by either thinking you know better or that you have learned better from someone else (who possibly didn't do as they were told). If you're not sure about anything, put a question to either the radiation therapists or your oncologist (NOT nurses, dieticians or secretaries).

Finally, your attitude is everything. If you believe that you're going to beat it, you stand a much better chance. Every day we see people who convince themselves that they're not going to do well, and they don't. And their downward progression is generally faster. And equally, we see people who approach it with an attitude of "bring it on" and they do better. Maybe they eventually succumb, but not without a fight. And many do not succumb. They go on and live long lives and die because they've been hit by a bus or had a heart attack.

Cheers

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby dagrean » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:00 am UTC

I'm surprised the oncologist themselves did the tattoos! Mine were done by the radiation tech.

I have 4 on the inside of thigh. I'm on the last 4 days of my treatment - (6 weeks of 6-10MeV X-ray). It's the scariest and hardest thing I've gone through in my life, and I can't imagine how hard it is to have to watch someone you love go through it.

Thank you for the comics. Your view on things have helped keep perspective on a very hard time in my life.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby fullymad » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:25 am UTC

dagrean wrote:I'm surprised the oncologist themselves did the tattoos! Mine were done by the radiation tech.

I have 4 on the inside of thigh. I'm on the last 4 days of my treatment - (6 weeks of 6-10MeV X-ray). It's the scariest and hardest thing I've gone through in my life, and I can't imagine how hard it is to have to watch someone you love go through it.

Thank you for the comics. Your view on things have helped keep perspective on a very hard time in my life.


A lot of the time the will be done by the radiation therapist, again, it depends on the centre and the complexity of the setup. Generally the radiation therapists have the freedom to do the setup however they like, as long as the prescription gets met.

@cheeney, The skin sparing effect is seen in megavoltage beams, which are produced by linacs, there are superficial treatment suites which do use diagnostic Voltage x-ray tubes with kilovoltage energies to distribute the dose very superficially, but that is not treated in the same way as a patient being treated on a LINAC, the majority of them will be set up to a template that is placed on the skin, and marks drawn on every day, with no tattoos being used at all.(I know you know what you're talking about, but the discussion here has mainly been to do with treatment with megavoltage beams, and it should be clear that there is a big difference between the 2 types of treatment.)

Once again, the actual details of how the setup can be done varies wildly from centre to centre, depending on what immobilisation and verification equipment they have, and the preference of the radiation oncologists as to how they want each case treated.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby zjxs » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:41 am UTC

I dig this. All my body modifications have occurred in hospitals. I had some pretty heavy metal in my arm for a while after a double compound fracture, but they took it out and left me with some long scars. Has anyone had a metal plate left in and had TSA issues?

Also, fuck cancer. I study epidemiology (statistics AND medicine - the noblest of professions ; ) so that in a little way I can prevent needless deaths. The country I do most work in (Indonesia) has 75% rates of smoking, and the cancer burden is becoming insane. So much needless suffering.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Beardhammer » Fri Aug 05, 2011 6:39 am UTC

zjxs wrote:I dig this. All my body modifications have occurred in hospitals. I had some pretty heavy metal in my arm for a while after a double compound fracture, but they took it out and left me with some long scars. Has anyone had a metal plate left in and had TSA issues?

Also, fuck cancer. I study epidemiology (statistics AND medicine - the noblest of professions ; ) so that in a little way I can prevent needless deaths. The country I do most work in (Indonesia) has 75% rates of smoking, and the cancer burden is becoming insane. So much needless suffering.


Because the cancer is a direct result of the smoking? Probably, but think of how people would act without their coffin nails. Might as well tell them they can't drink coffee or tea (both prime sources of caffeine and mental "everything is normal.")

Cancer is a pretty shitty way to go out - it robs you of your dignity as well as your life - but at least it's typically a slow death compared to some other illnesses. May not seem like a blessing, but that's extra time you have to get your shit in order as well as to give your loved ones time to get a handle on what's coming. You don't get that with, say, an airplane crash or a nasty carwreck. Silver linings, right?

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby owise1 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:49 am UTC

I have had the radiation treatment to the neck and a couple of rounds involved "electron" treatment - I asked the radiation oncologist how those electrons managed to cross the 20 odd centimetre gap in air. Never got an answer - they must hate us inquisitive engineers. Fascinating process but crap experience but I am still here 10 years later

Nescio
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Nescio » Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:30 am UTC

SpringLoaded12 wrote: hope we do realize here the point of the joke, which is not to mock people who get tattoos. That thread about the "Interdisciplinary" strip from a while back was dreadful, people missing the point on every damn page.


Yes the webcomic cracked me up. It's just the response by some people afterwards that I object to.

jpk wrote:
Nescio wrote:I'm embarassed: humans are so judgmental.


Judgement is a feature, not a bug.


Yes, this is true. With quite a background in evolutionairy biology I realise judgment and often being judgmental is probably one of the reasons what got us here. Sometimes it's unncessary and humans can control up to some point. I think we should.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby jjcote » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:29 pm UTC

Almost this exact thing happened to me. I came up with the clever idea that maybe I'd get a tattoo of a decimal point, and started telling people -- not that I was really planning to get the tattoo, but because I thought it was a cool out-of-the-box idea. Slightly nerdy, and very subtle, sort of a "why did you even bother?" thing, but I'd be able to say I had one. Then I mentioned it to my brother, and he said, "Oh, yeah, I've got three of those".

Headrushed
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Headrushed » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:50 am UTC

Stuey wrote:
Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.

You speak as if he owes you something. This is his art which many people seem to appreciate. If you're just going to say you're sick of it, there's a whole internet here. I'm sure you can find something you like and leave those you don't alone. If you would, then, kindly fuck off, I'm sure you wouldn't be missed.


Wow, I'm getting quoted more than Nixon on 70's night...

Before I start on that, let's move quickly on to the people who are calling me a dick, an asshole, a troll, so forth. You know, the usual shit people who are overly sensitive call people that aren't. What you're branding me with are not facts, or truths, but subjective opinions, and no matter how forcefully and finitely you state them, they remain subjective. You *think* I'm a dick, you *think* I'm a troll. But really I'm just sharing my opinions in a public forum just like randy does with his comics, so for you to criticize me only legitimizes my criticisms of him. The only difference between what I'm doing, and what you're doing is that you're stating YOUR criticisms as objective truths such as "You're a troll" and "You're a dick", where as my criticisms are exactly in the form they should be, as subjective opinions, as in "I'm sick of this cancer shit" not "Everyone's sick of this cancer shit" or "all cancer comics are shit."

And before anyone starts bitching and moaning about how "oh, well criticizing cancer is different because it had a huge emotional/physical impact on me/my family and thus our responses were justified" let me firstly say, no, it's not. But secondly, even if it were a somehow unbreachable subject (which again, it's not) your responses would be disproportionate regardless because the only thing that you're using to judge my character with is two single sentences. For a largely atheist community, i find it interesting that some of you employ the same tactics used by the Christians in the 1400-1800s, labeling anyone that disagrees with them you a "heretic," "witch," or "troll" and then banishing them.

As for the directly quoted response, i'd like to point out that stick figures hardly qualify as art. Randy does include art in some of his comics, the big dipper inverted colors comic jumps readily to mind; however, for the most part, his comics are not art. No, what randy peddles for the most part is opinions, and to buy them, all you have to do is read what he says, and either agree or disagree (because i can guarantee you that a large part of the reason that randy makes this comic is so that his opinions are heard). Now as a consumer of said opinions, if the product I'm receiving is not to my liking, i see no conflict of interest for me to make my displeasure known, in hopes that he may or may not alter his product based on my critiques, and the critiques of those like minded to myself. If he decides to stop making so many cancer comics because of this, then I, and those who are equally bored of the subject will be satisfied. If not, then i, and those like me will lose interest. It's as simple as that, with very little to do with art at all.

Also, you'll note,stuey, that i didn't once say i was sick of his comic as a whole. i still find him funny, i just find the topic tiresome. But hey, like i said, me and randy are both doing the same thing, voicing our opinions. And if you don't wanna hear it, you can, as our friend stuey so gracefully put it, fuck off.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Maniac » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:23 pm UTC

jqavins wrote:But there are also particles with no rest mass. In effect (but not in proper formal terms) they need 1/y to be infinite in order to "increase" their masses to anything at all. In other words, they can't exist if they are not moving at c. But when they are moving at c, they have mass, momentum, and energy. The photon is the most common and familiar of these particles. Neutrinos, the last I heard, might be like this, but nobody is altogether sure that they don't have some virtually undetectable rest mass.


Neutrinos have a (rest) mass, but a very small one. So far there are only upper limits.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Neutrino#Mass

jqavins wrote:III) Here's the thing that most people don't quite get, and I didn't get until about a week after the end of my course in special relativity: the "speed of light (in a vacuum)" is something of a misnomer. The term implies that this speed is special because it's how fast light goes. But in fact the reverse is true: c is a fundemental property of space, and it is light that's special because it goes that fast. Someone's recolection that there is a speed slightly greater than that of light which light can not reach because of a photon's mass is not true, but relates to this. This aledged greater speed would be the "special speed," c, and light would indeed fall ever so slightly short of it if photons had some ridiculously tiny positive rest mass. But they don't, and they do go at c.


There are some very special cases where the group velocity of a light pulse can be >c. What is important is that you can not transport information faster than c, but you can make it look like a light pulse is coming out of a material before you send it in.
See https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Dispersion_(optics)#Group_and_phase_velocity and References 4 & 5.

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby xander5000 » Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:12 pm UTC

Headrushed wrote:
Stuey wrote:
Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.

You speak as if he owes you something. This is his art which many people seem to appreciate. If you're just going to say you're sick of it, there's a whole internet here. I'm sure you can find something you like and leave those you don't alone. If you would, then, kindly fuck off, I'm sure you wouldn't be missed.


Wow, I'm getting quoted more than Nixon on 70's night...

Before I start on that, let's move quickly on to the people who are calling me a dick, an asshole, a troll, so forth. You know, the usual shit people who are overly sensitive call people that aren't. What you're branding me with are not facts, or truths, but subjective opinions, and no matter how forcefully and finitely you state them, they remain subjective. You *think* I'm a dick, you *think* I'm a troll. But really I'm just sharing my opinions in a public forum just like randy does with his comics, so for you to criticize me only legitimizes my criticisms of him. The only difference between what I'm doing, and what you're doing is that you're stating YOUR criticisms as objective truths such as "You're a troll" and "You're a dick", where as my criticisms are exactly in the form they should be, as subjective opinions, as in "I'm sick of this cancer shit" not "Everyone's sick of this cancer shit" or "all cancer comics are shit."

And before anyone starts bitching and moaning about how "oh, well criticizing cancer is different because it had a huge emotional/physical impact on me/my family and thus our responses were justified" let me firstly say, no, it's not. But secondly, even if it were a somehow unbreachable subject (which again, it's not) your responses would be disproportionate regardless because the only thing that you're using to judge my character with is two single sentences. For a largely atheist community, i find it interesting that some of you employ the same tactics used by the Christians in the 1400-1800s, labeling anyone that disagrees with them you a "heretic," "witch," or "troll" and then banishing them.

As for the directly quoted response, i'd like to point out that stick figures hardly qualify as art. Randy does include art in some of his comics, the big dipper inverted colors comic jumps readily to mind; however, for the most part, his comics are not art. No, what randy peddles for the most part is opinions, and to buy them, all you have to do is read what he says, and either agree or disagree (because i can guarantee you that a large part of the reason that randy makes this comic is so that his opinions are heard). Now as a consumer of said opinions, if the product I'm receiving is not to my liking, i see no conflict of interest for me to make my displeasure known, in hopes that he may or may not alter his product based on my critiques, and the critiques of those like minded to myself. If he decides to stop making so many cancer comics because of this, then I, and those who are equally bored of the subject will be satisfied. If not, then i, and those like me will lose interest. It's as simple as that, with very little to do with art at all.

Also, you'll note,stuey, that i didn't once say i was sick of his comic as a whole. i still find him funny, i just find the topic tiresome. But hey, like i said, me and randy are both doing the same thing, voicing our opinions. And if you don't wanna hear it, you can, as our friend stuey so gracefully put it, fuck off.


Please go to fuck off. xkcd is clearly not for you, a lot of his comics are about his personal life and his fans fucking love it.

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skrossa
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby skrossa » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:19 am UTC

Wow, a five paragraph defense of his original comment from Headrushed. The reaction to that post has clearly stung its author.

Headrushed wrote:your responses would be disproportionate regardless because the only thing that you're using to judge my character with is two single sentences.

Disproportionate? This is XKCD. The fora are a nerd paradise. Discussion of whether "bicep" is acceptable grammar isn't off-topic pedantry. Pages of discussion about the science of radiotherapy —and how to use it to kill a horse— are par for the course. And just as with the comics themselves, two single sentences can reveal a lot, objective as well as subjective, about their author.

For example,
Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

Among other things, this tells us that he's rather self-centered, as he thinks it appropriate to complain when just two single XKCD comics don't cater to his individual topic preferences. Further, despite protests to the contrary, it also reveals the author to be insensitive and boorish: complaining about a measly two comics being about cancer when the artist** only just revealed that his fiance was being treated for stage III breast cancer. Really? Who but dicks doesn't think someone who would do that is a dick?

Then there's
Headrushed wrote:randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.

This indicates that he's not very observant (reinforcing his self-centeredness), given the objective evidence (blog comments, forum posts, views, etc.) that these cancer-topic comics have elicited at least as much interest as others. (Mind you, I doubt that Randall drew these particular comics with either the idea or hope that his personal life would be enthralling.)

**Yes, artist. But I won't even get into what the five paragraphs reveal about Headrushed, from his naively narrow definition of art to… but I said I wouldn't get into it. Suffice to say, it just confirms and expands the impression given by his first post. All in all, not a pretty picture, and if I were he I'd stop while I was behind.

biduzido
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby biduzido » Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:02 am UTC

Well I have tattooed the logo of Amnesty International. Is that 'shallow and meaningless'? :~ In your opinion.

jpk
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby jpk » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:04 am UTC

biduzido wrote:Well I have tattooed the logo of Amnesty International. Is that 'shallow and meaningless'? :~ In your opinion.


On its face, yes, it is. (In my opinion.)

biduzido
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby biduzido » Sun Aug 07, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

ah, it's a simple tattoo. Just the logo and on my left arm

jpk
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby jpk » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:16 am UTC

biduzido wrote:ah, it's a simple tattoo. Just the logo and on my left arm


Fine, if you dig it that's your thing. It's your arm, innit? You asked for an opinion, though. In my opinion, branding yourself is shallow and meaningless. I don't care much whose brand you choose to inscribe on your body, it still doesn't mean much except that you don't really have much self-regard and so you have to remind yourself of who you'd like to be by writing it on yourself. Better than getting a Red Sox logo or something, I guess, in that you at least choose to brand yourself with something that implies a concern for others, but it really doesn't tell me anything more than that about who you are or what you care about or what you do about it.
So to me it's shallow, in that it's easily applied, and requires no real commitment, and it's meaningless, in that it doesn't signify much more than wearing a T-shirt does: just that you want people to associate you with AI and to get the warm fuzzy transferred to you. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you're a nice person and care deeply about others and the state of political rights around the world, or at least I'm willing to assume that, but if you want me to believe it in more than a courteous fashion it'll take something other than a tattoo. (not that you should care what I think, of course, I'm just some guy on a message board)

WizenedEE
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby WizenedEE » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:59 am UTC

Headrushed wrote:The only difference between what I'm doing, and what you're doing is that you're stating YOUR criticisms as objective truths such as "You're a troll"


Headrushed wrote:randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.


You do realize you're saying "I don't care about your fiancé," which is rude, no matter the context, right?

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby Felstaff » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:31 am UTC

Headrushed wrote:
Stuey wrote:
Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.

You speak as if he owes you something. This is his art which many people seem to appreciate. If you're just going to say you're sick of it, there's a whole internet here. I'm sure you can find something you like and leave those you don't alone. If you would, then, kindly fuck off, I'm sure you wouldn't be missed.


Wow, I'm getting quoted more than Nixon on 70's night...

Before I start on that, let's move quickly on to my ceaseless whingeing.


You sound kind of overly sensitive. Your personal opinion is not nearly as enthralling as you hope it is.
Away, you scullion! you rampallion! You fustilarian! I'll tickle your catastrophe.

cheeney
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby cheeney » Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

fullymad wrote:
@cheeney, The skin sparing effect is seen in megavoltage beams, which are produced by linacs, there are superficial treatment suites which do use diagnostic Voltage x-ray tubes with kilovoltage energies to distribute the dose very superficially, but that is not treated in the same way as a patient being treated on a LINAC, the majority of them will be set up to a template that is placed on the skin, and marks drawn on every day, with no tattoos being used at all.(I know you know what you're talking about, but the discussion here has mainly been to do with treatment with megavoltage beams, and it should be clear that there is a big difference between the 2 types of treatment.)


@fullymad: perhaps you missed the beginning of my post - I'm a physicist working in a therapy department? - so I'm quite familiar with the skin sparing effect of MV photons (should we get into the use of bolus to mitigate this?). My point was a direct response to someguitarists generic description on the use of x-rays because of their "skin sparing effects". Saying x-rays spare skin dose is wrong unless you qualify the statement.


I'm also going to disagree with you on your description about setups:
fullymad wrote:Generally the radiation therapists have the freedom to do the setup however they like, as long as the prescription gets met.

Even in the absence of a fully planned treatment, you would still be constrained by SSD, applicator and cut-out size, monitor units, gantry and collimator angles (subject to tolerances), use of bolus, etc. I know what you mean - you're talking about daily clinical setup of electron fields, but you make it sound as if you're making it up on a daily basis and I'm fairly sure this isn't the case.

IanQuigley
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby IanQuigley » Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:30 pm UTC

xsk8rat wrote:Sorry to be so chatty - this physics stuff is way cool (and my profession).

I found it interesting. Last IMRT on Thursday and every other day I'm lying there wondering what the hell is going on in that "flower head" :)

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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby addams » Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:59 pm UTC

biduzido wrote:ah, it's a simple tattoo. Just the logo and on my left arm


Hi; If, you are still out there; I would like to type about the subject of tattoos.

I met a man a few days ago. He spent everything that he had and lost his truck to go get his best friend. He was embarrassed to take off his jacket the first time, after we met.

Some of his tattoos are from when he was an aggressive teenager. That is not who he is now. He has grown and changed. The angsty teen is long gone. The tattoos remain. We had two meals together. I liked him. I respect the Love he has for his friend.

A tattoo of Amnesty International seems like as good a logo as any. I looked at some of his tattoos. Not much. It is like looking at birth marks. His tattoos were the skull and cross bones type.

Have you never known a person with a Red Wine Stain birthmark? I once knew a man that had a large birth mark on his face and head. It took a few minutes to get used to it. I would look at him longer than at other people.

Oh, Yes. I am so glad that I found this forum. Some of the voices that I hear as I read the posts, I really like.

It is nice to know that there are other people that know what we know. We know stuff. Science stuff. I do. And; The radiologists are bubbling over with knowledge and information.

I respect Love. This man, Mr. Monroe. He has been writing about Love and Fun and Science and Math. This man, Mr, Monroe and his little Forum have made a difference to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNCaAUlENYs

Before, he knew the woman that he loves is umm. Well; I knew about me. He Loves her. Is she the girl that spun to turn time back to stay with him?
I was touched. That comic touched me. To love someone so much that we would spin the world backwards to be with that person for a while longer. So, sweet.

http://xkcd.com/162/
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

fullymad
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby fullymad » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:11 am UTC

cheeney wrote:
fullymad wrote:
@cheeney, The skin sparing effect is seen in megavoltage beams, which are produced by linacs, there are superficial treatment suites which do use diagnostic Voltage x-ray tubes with kilovoltage energies to distribute the dose very superficially, but that is not treated in the same way as a patient being treated on a LINAC, the majority of them will be set up to a template that is placed on the skin, and marks drawn on every day, with no tattoos being used at all.(I know you know what you're talking about, but the discussion here has mainly been to do with treatment with megavoltage beams, and it should be clear that there is a big difference between the 2 types of treatment.)


@fullymad: perhaps you missed the beginning of my post - I'm a physicist working in a therapy department? - so I'm quite familiar with the skin sparing effect of MV photons (should we get into the use of bolus to mitigate this?). My point was a direct response to someguitarists generic description on the use of x-rays because of their "skin sparing effects". Saying x-rays spare skin dose is wrong unless you qualify the statement.


I'm also going to disagree with you on your description about setups:
fullymad wrote:Generally the radiation therapists have the freedom to do the setup however they like, as long as the prescription gets met.

Even in the absence of a fully planned treatment, you would still be constrained by SSD, applicator and cut-out size, monitor units, gantry and collimator angles (subject to tolerances), use of bolus, etc. I know what you mean - you're talking about daily clinical setup of electron fields, but you make it sound as if you're making it up on a daily basis and I'm fairly sure this isn't the case.


I am aware that you know what you're talking about as far as the skin sparing effect, my comments were more for clarification for anyone else who happened to be reading the comment.

What I was talking about was the physical set up/patient position. Which is determined at the time of simulation, it doesn't change between sim and treatment, and is determined by the radiation therapist, unless it's an unusual case that the radonc has to come in and clarify the setup. Everything else is determined by the radiation therapist at the time of planning as well, as long as the prescription is met, all of those other constraints that you listed are still generally decided by the therapist.

alunj
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby alunj » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:22 pm UTC

I was going to call for this design to be placed on a t-shirt - as a five-dot guy myself, I'd wear that t-shirt all over the place.
Then I realised it would be so much more awesome as a tattoo.

bigjeff5
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby bigjeff5 » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

Headrushed wrote:Snip...


I almost laughed out loud, what a friggin douchebag.

A dollar says Headrushed doesn't see what's wrong with the guy in this video: http://youtu.be/Hw1ncADC9KM.

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EMTP
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby EMTP » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:04 pm UTC

Headrushed wrote:Man, i'm sick of this cancer shit.

randy's personal life is not nearly as enthralling as he hopes it is.


Well, to each their own. I think this cancer shit has led to some of the best humor/ground-level explanations of medical stuff I've ever seen. Loved the pain scale (#883). The cancer off-ramps comic ("Lanes" #931) I could literally hand to a patient -- funny, but also a great explanation of a difficult concept for many civilians. And I loved this one and show it to anyone who will sit still for it.
"Reasonable – that is, human – men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."
-- Alan Watts, "The Way of Zen"

arbyd
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Re: 0933: "Tattoo"

Postby arbyd » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:18 am UTC

Had 3 dots placed today. Remembering and re-viewing this strip has been very emotional. Randall - thank you very much for your insight.


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