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0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:01 am UTC
by Quicksilver
Image
http://www.xkcd.com/948
Alt Text: "And they both react poorly to showers."
Saw it recently. Wasn't very interesting IMO. Just another one of many things internet nerds turn into memes. Like MLP

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:03 am UTC
by WizenedEE
Sure they can hold a normal conversation, just with their own kind. We humans can't talk to dogs.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:06 am UTC
by laofmoonster
"I am not a robot. I'm a unicorn."

I know you're there, bronies.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:07 am UTC
by Jared the Great
I don't get the burning man reference. What does racing cars across deserts and playing chess, but not talking, have to do with the burning man?

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:11 am UTC
by Sean Quixote
He's saying that Burning Man attendees are wacky people, which is kind of a no-brainer, and part of the appeal of the whole thing if you ask me...

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:28 am UTC
by angruss
I think it's kinda... people like me.

I can play chess, fix a computer, build things, change oil, drive, but I can't for the life of me have a conversation that doesn't make other people explode. Potheads and geniuses have a thing in common, and that is thinking in ideas. Idea people don't function well with the gossipers they are surrounded by. Computers are good at the ideas, but have no etiquette.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:33 am UTC
by phlip
Context, for those who need it.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:40 am UTC
by jpk
angruss wrote:I think it's kinda... people like me.
Computers are good at the ideas, but have no etiquette.


Oh, really.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:46 am UTC
by jpk
phlip wrote:Context, for those who need it.

More context.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:01 am UTC
by Sean Quixote
On a completely unrelated note, I once figured that this would be the perfect forum to try and start a chess game thread. But apparently, I was wrong. =\

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:11 am UTC
by stuff
Jared the Great wrote:I don't get the burning man reference. What does racing cars across deserts and playing chess, but not talking, have to do with the burning man?


Burning man is hosted out in the middle of the desert. Burners mostly can play chess, most pretty well. I have to say that I have friends that are Burners who can I can hold good deep conversations. He might be reffering to some of the scene kiddie burners who only go for the drugs and sex, but whatever.

edit: btw randall, dirty dirty low you've gone talking about how burners can't hold proper conversations. seriously?!?! you're referring to some of the nicest, artistic, giving people that this generation has to offer right now.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:17 am UTC
by Turing Machine
Computers can't play chess.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:18 am UTC
by jpk
stuff wrote:
Jared the Great wrote:I don't get the burning man reference. What does racing cars across deserts and playing chess, but not talking, have to do with the burning man?


Burning man is hosted out in the middle of the desert. Burners mostly can play chess, most pretty well. I have to say that I have friends that are Burners who can I can hold good deep conversations. He might be reffering to some of the scene kiddie burners who only go for the drugs and sex, but whatever.

edit: btw randall, dirty dirty low you've gone talking about how burners can't hold proper conversations. seriously?!?! you're referring to some of the nicest, artistic, giving people that this generation has to offer right now.



Wow, take things personally much?
You might want to make sure your karass isn't a granfalloon.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:26 am UTC
by doctor_kiwano
stuff wrote:Burning man is hosted out in the middle of the desert. Burners mostly can play chess, most pretty well. I have to say that I have friends that are Burners who can I can hold good deep conversations. He might be reffering to some of the scene kiddie burners who only go for the drugs and sex, but whatever.

edit: btw randall, dirty dirty low you've gone talking about how burners can't hold proper conversations. seriously?!?! you're referring to some of the nicest, artistic, giving people that this generation has to offer right now.


I think that someone knows that the burn just ended, and has found an apt way to fuck with a whole bunch of folks who still have dust on the brain.

Well played Randall.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:38 am UTC
by stuff
@jpk ofc I'm taking this personally. One of the most respected webcomics around just bashed an entire cultural movement. Based on what? His own crappy experience or meetup with a few burners? Or is this just satire and all in jest? Either way, it is one of the best things going on in the current state of the world where it isn't all fluff. Unless you have some solid facts and not theories and what you think, don't even bother to defend the comic.

And it isn't a "granfalloon", you should check out the yahoo groups for some of the camps, even the smaller camps. They eat breathe and live the playa year round. Pretty simple to spot one if you know what to look for (and I'm not referring to their clothes or state of hygiene either).

@kiwano, yes he probably has. and it is a cheap shot at that. just because there's no water readily available on the playa doesn't mean burners don't appreciate a good bath/shower.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:52 am UTC
by jpk
stuff wrote:@jpk ofc I'm taking this personally. One of the most respected webcomics around just bashed an entire cultural movement. Based on what? His own crappy experience or meetup with a few burners? Or is this just satire and all in jest? Either way, it is one of the best things going on in the current state of the world where it isn't all fluff. Unless you have some solid facts and not theories and what you think, don't even bother to defend the comic.


I'm sure the teapartiers and the llama fanciers think the same about their little meetups. Doesn't stop you from laughing at them, does it?

And it isn't a "granfalloon", you should check out the yahoo groups for some of the camps, even the smaller camps. They eat breathe and live the playa year round. Pretty simple to spot one if you know what to look for (and I'm not referring to their clothes or state of hygiene either).


I've met a fair few burning man enthusiasts. One or two of them weren't simply spoiled trustafarians with too much spare time and no real drive to turn what creativity they had (and some of them did have some) to anything of interest. But beyond that there's not much good that I can find to say about people who devote their lives to preparing for an annual orgy of ritualized conspicuous consumption. You want to "live la playa year round"? I hear the famine in Somalia is going mental. Go make yourself useful. Show us that that "cultural movement" isn't just another turd.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:05 am UTC
by A_of_s_t
Turing Machine wrote:Computers can't play chess.

Nor can they drive.

Silly computers, when will they learn?

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:07 am UTC
by Sean Quixote
stuff wrote:ofc I'm taking this personally. One of the most respected webcomics around just bashed an entire cultural movement. Based on what? His own crappy experience or meetup with a few burners? Or is this just satire and all in jest?

Probably closer to the second one, plus what you said about the so-called "scene kiddies"... of course the people who actually get Burning Man are probably coherent enough to conduct an intelligent conversation, but just like the Hippies before them, the actually coherent message got drowned out by all of the drugged up idiots, and not to mention posers...



One day, Burning Man will be celebrated as the day that Mankind beat back the Machines...

The Burning Man will be seen no longer merely as an effigy of human expression, but also as an effigy of the Monster that human expression created...

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:34 am UTC
by Orkimond
It's fun to respond "I am Skynet. I have access to the American nuclear weapon stockpile. You will all burn." constantly, because you know that someone somewhere will end up freaking out over it.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:04 am UTC
by stuff
jpk wrote:You want to "live la playa year round"?

Just wanted to point out how BS your whole negative attitude towards burners is by referring to the playa as "la playa". No one refers to the BRC area as la playa. Everything you have said is moot. All the people you know who are burners are figments of your imagination, or you just never listened to them. Take your high and mighty attitude somewhere else where you actually have some experience. Read http://www.kevinlitwack.com/2011/08/case-study-in-cultural-evolution.html for what it means to be a burner. I'm sure there's other essays out there as well, but you've lost all my respect and I don't feel compelled to give you any more of my time.

To quote Bob Marley, "I know I'm not perfect and I don't live to be, but before you start pointing fingers make sure your hands are clean."

@Sean, yep. You totally understand what I mean. The notion of drugs and sex has prevailed among media and the hype surrounding Burning Man which attracts people makes it so that the message of being self sufficient, giving and not leaving a trace among nature is buried. So sad.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:07 am UTC
by XbHW_TestEngr
Plays chess - check - well I used to, 35 years ago.
Can drive across the desert - check - (no, I've never gone to Burning Man)
And, as one who has difficulty holding a 5 minute conversation with "normal" people, I feel quite honored to have part of the subgroup honored in today's comic.

Yes, I LOL'd.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:22 am UTC
by jpk
stuff wrote:
jpk wrote:You want to "live la playa year round"?

Just wanted to point out how BS your whole negative attitude towards burners is by referring to the playa as "la playa". No one refers to the BRC area as la playa. Everything you have said is moot. All the people you know who are burners are figments of your imagination, or you just never listened to them. Take your high and mighty attitude somewhere else where you actually have some experience. Read http://www.kevinlitwack.com/2011/08/cas ... ution.html for what it means to be a burner. I'm sure there's other essays out there as well, but you've lost all my respect and I don't feel compelled to give you any more of my time.

To quote Bob Marley, "I know I'm not perfect and I don't live to be, but before you start pointing fingers make sure your hands are clean."

They eat breathe and live the playa year round


So sorry. I used the correct article for the spanish word you used to refer to your little rich-kid playground. If that's the only thing you can find wrong with what I said, you're still a pathetic trustafarian douchenozzle.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:41 am UTC
by Sean Quixote
Actually that wasn't the only thing he found wrong with your comments, in fact it seems like the bulk of his issue with it had to do with your making assumptions about his character...

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:52 am UTC
by The Moomin
Orkimond wrote:It's fun to respond "I am Skynet. I have access to the American nuclear weapon stockpile. You will all burn." constantly, because you know that someone somewhere will end up freaking out over it.


This I love.

Guess I got any spare time at the office fully booked up now :D

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:30 am UTC
by Monika
stuff wrote:edit: btw randall, dirty dirty low you've gone talking about how burners can't hold proper conversations. seriously?!?! you're referring to some of the nicest, artistic, giving people that this generation has to offer right now.

Yeah, that was a pretty cheap shot.

To give Randall the benefit of the doubt, it *could* be interpreted as: *some* of the participants drive through the desert + play chess + don't talk much, so a bot that can drive through the desert + play chess is sufficient for participation; without implying that *all* participants are "not talkers" (as the most friendly interpretation) or too nerdy, withdrawn, antisocial or whatever to have a five-minute conversation (as a not so friendly interpretation).
But that's giving a lot of benefits.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:32 am UTC
by stuff
jpk wrote:So sorry. I used the correct article for the spanish word you used to refer to your little rich-kid playground. If that's the only thing you can find wrong with what I said, you're still a pathetic trustafarian douchenozzle.


Direct quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playa : "The Playa, Black Rock Desert, Nevada, site of Burning Man". SECOND case in point: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=the+playa VS http://lmgtfy.com/?q=la+playa . Seriously, read the essay linked above and you'll see that "orgy of ritualized conspicuous consumption" is not what burners are all about. And I have already addressed that previously as well.

"Correct" is point of view based on context scene kiddie. I wouldn't be surprised if you said "le résumé" instead of "the resume" if you were ever in a hypothetical position to interview potentials in a non French speaking area. Much lulz were had. You make this too easy.

Much love to Sean again for getting it right. I'm not bothering with jpk since it seem he is only capable of being disrespectful and pointing out fallacies to degrade others in an effort to make himself sound pretentious and superior. Such are the people who make normal conversations that lasts longer than 5 minutes hell.

Oh, and did you really need to degrade this thread by calling me a "pathetic trustafarian douchenozzle [sic]"? So sad.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:25 am UTC
by Monika
jpk wrote:I hear the famine in Somalia is going mental. Go make yourself useful. Show us that that "cultural movement" isn't just another turd.

So when are you flying to Somalia, useful member of society?

It would be more useful for you, me and him to just donate the money instead of investing it into a plane ticket to carry our sorry fat asses to Somalia just to hand out the food in person. I would like to see the statistics that support that Burning Man fans are less likely to donate money to this and other causes than whatever group you consider to be well-grounded in reality and useful for society.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:30 am UTC
by DVC
I just tried cleverbot. It's nonsensical. Eliza was way better in 1990 when I last conversed with it.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:07 am UTC
by Ronster
I saw a documentary about the burning man.
I get that the stereotype is that they are kinda chess-playing geeks, intelligent hippies, whatever...
What I didn't realise was that they don't have a sense of humour.

If you get so offended at being called a soap-dodging chess-playing desert-driving fool, why read comics?

Lighten up "Stuff", peace and goodwill to all Randall-reading dudes.
Image

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:38 am UTC
by TvanH
Wow, I always enjoy reading the forum with all its jokes etc.
Today is just a lot of mud throwing, or in some cases, desert sand throwing...

I think if you've followed our beloved Randall long enough, you should know better than to be offended so easily.
Just find the funnies. Perhaps share your opinion once and stop trying to have the last word!

With regard to the cleverbot: not so clever!

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:41 am UTC
by AvatarIII
Omegle vs cleverbot is better.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:54 am UTC
by KShrike
The left chatterbot is a brony. He claims to be a unicron.
(lolol don't delete this post, I was trying to be funny).

It's so sad... I feel like everyone approaches AI wrong. But then again, I don't know enough about the subject to be a true judge.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:02 pm UTC
by Monika
So how should AI be approached?

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:10 pm UTC
by xnick
Didn't get it. What or who is Burning Man??

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:17 pm UTC
by Sean Quixote
Monika wrote:So how should AI be approached?

The right way, of course! Which, ironically, happens to also be, from the left... :mrgreen:

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:21 pm UTC
by Monika
xnick wrote:Didn't get it. What or who is Burning Man??

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Burning+Man

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:32 pm UTC
by bigchiefbc
Man, the wikipedia article on Burning Man uses so many words to say absolutely nothing about what it IS. I just spent 20 minutes reading the whole article, and don't know anything more about what it is those people do out in the desert for a week. Why write an encyclopedia article that is completely useless to people that aren't already familiar with the topic?

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:33 pm UTC
by KShrike
Monika wrote:
xnick wrote:Didn't get it. What or who is Burning Man??

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Burning+Man


Since you are being very demeaning... replace his question with something better.
"Can someone describe in his/her/its own words who or what is Burning Man, and how it relates to the comic."

There you go, xnick.

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:36 pm UTC
by KShrike
We can't seem to be capable of getting a computer to understand concepts and what they mean.
Instead, they emulate actions we give them. The chatterbots, for example, have a database of responses most likely chosen by weighted RNG.
Chess has a tree of actions, and so do many scripts for video games. (if I am wrong, someone correct me before I misinform somepony)

Re: 0948 - "AI"

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:45 pm UTC
by CodexDraco
So, how do we teach a computer a concept and what's the test to prove that it understands?