0980: "Money"

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jmlinden7 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:57 pm UTC

The 'five things i learned' list actually has six things.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby zoffenberger » Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:58 pm UTC

I wanted to comment because I absolutely loved the graph and would really like to purchase it but I was concerned with the large number of typos and other errors. I should have recognized that xkcd readers are a precise and pedantic bunch and have spotted most if not all of the errors I noticed. I'm just hoping fixing them doesn't require any massive reformatting, for Randall's sake. He's my hero for this! Really excellent job, and maybe the most useful and comprehensive visual representation of anything I've ever seen. Randall 2012, I say.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ptfreak » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:00 pm UTC

I created an account just to point out that he misspelled Ferrari under the millions section. I must be quite the cynical ass.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby PeterS6g » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:03 pm UTC

Kizyr wrote:...I'm noticing a lot of typos (captions that are most likely mistypes, missing or inadvertently added ,000s, that sort of thing). It's making it hard to understand in some parts... KF

I think there's a typo in Typical Household income (thousands). Both the Top 1% and the Top 10% are listed as $201,100.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby trex » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:04 pm UTC

This is an amazing chart! You can really get lost in it. Again, lots of typos, though. I notice General Electric (GE) is listed twice. I wonder if the lower entry is supposed to be IBM?

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Ronsonic » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:04 pm UTC

roderik wrote:what? a low end bike costs $180?
strange, I thought those cost at least a quarter of that price.

Low end bike, not "bicycle shaped object."

Yeah, I'm a bike snob.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Naliano » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:05 pm UTC

This is an EXTREMELY important cartoon.

HUGE standing ovation! Here, here!

(One error to point out, so it can be corrected before print publishing?)

"Annual federal government payments to dead employees" was actually spread out over 5 years, with yearly totals between $100,000 and $150,000.


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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Nyall » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:06 pm UTC

How many millions of lost productivity where spent today reading that graphic ?

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby daexkcd » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:07 pm UTC

Great infographic.

Other Labeling Typos:
  • Under "Typical household income" for the "Top 1%" it should read $827,000 instead of repeating the value for the "Top 10%".
  • The "2010 presidential campaign fundraising" section involving GWB and Kerry should be "2004".

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jjohns71 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

Typo in the political section you have costs listed for 2010 presidential campaign funding, I believe that should be the 2004 presidential campaign funding.

Screenshot with axis coordinates: http://i.imgur.com/n4KS8.png

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby wolfticket » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

Just wow.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Dark567 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:11 pm UTC

Shifter wrote:Democrats: $815,000,000
Republicans: $587,000,000,000

That's a typo. It should be Democrats: $815,000,000; Republicans: $587,000,000. A half trillion dollars of campaign spending would be unheard of. (The actual chart is correct)
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Entroper » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:17 pm UTC

This chart is awesome.

I have a calculation challenge, rather than a typo:

Under THOUSANDS, "Value of an investment of $1,000/year", the value after 30 years, after accounting for the cost of 3% annual inflation, is listed as $27,370. I don't think this is right. It seems that the calculation was $66,440 / (1.03 ^ 30). However, this would only be correct if the entire $30,000 was invested up front, rather than over 30 years. When you invest over time, the inflation doesn't hurt you as much on the money you invest later as it does on the money you invest earlier. You should still "come out ahead" if the interest you're earning (5% in this example) is higher than inflation. The chart implies that if you invested at 5% and inflation was 3%, you would effectively be losing value, which is not the case.

Oh, and I do have a typo: The 2004 Presidental election is mislabeled as 2010. Dunno if someone pointed that out already.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby zerox » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:23 pm UTC

ajgriffy wrote:
    $1 per US citizen should be millions not billions [Millions]
    $1 and $10 per US citizen second largest digits don't match [Millions]

I was going to point this out as well, but even corrected the figures (312,620,000) seem to be for the US population rather than US citizens. It is very hard to find data regarding US citizens, mainly because US citizens living abroad don't want to be found (seeing as they are meant to file taxes with the IRS).

In 2010, about 7% of the US population were not US citizens (http://www.census.gov/population/foreign/data/cps2010.html) (5.2% of the population were naturalized US citizens, and from 2000 to 2009, 500,000 US citizens by birth were born abroad (https://www.overseasvotefoundation.org/files/counting%20american%20civilians%20abroad.pdf)). However, in 2009 the State Department estimated that only 5.25 million US citizens lived abroad.

Extrapolating to the current US population of about 313 million, I would say there are only 298 million US citizens in the world. Probably a few million of these will have more than one citizenship as well.
Last edited by zerox on Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:28 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby frobnicator » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:25 pm UTC

Another small issue, "Typical annual housing cost for various cities"

The text below the dots is in the wrong order:
11 dots - Detroit $10,080
10 dots - Salt Lake City $9,108
9 dots - Minneapolis $10,908

They should be in the order:
11 dots - Minneapolis $10,908
10 dots - Detroit $10,080
9 dots - Salt Lake City $9,108

Part of me feels guilty for being critical of details. The chart is awesome, and (assuming most of the numbers are correct) it is very interesting with little gems everywhere I look.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Alx_xlA » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:25 pm UTC

It's nice and all, but all the typos really detract from it.

You'd think Randall would find some beta readers to proof complicated graphics like this.
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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby morticae » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:29 pm UTC

Cool graph, but how is the typical household income $201,100 for both the top 10% and the top 1%?

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby TachisAlopex » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:32 pm UTC

Alx_xlA wrote:It's nice and all, but all the typos really detract from it.

You'd think Randall would find some beta readers to proof complicated graphics like this.

He did! It's called us.

Also I was wanting to post an archive I made of all of the tiles downloaded (into their respective zoom folders) but I can't because I have to first make 5 posts...

Maybe later

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jeorgun » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:32 pm UTC

2004 presidential election spending seems to be mislabeled as 2010 presidential election spending.

Also, what's with the viewer? Disabling context menus and lack of keyboard navigation does not, for me, spell success.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby mockiovelliq » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:39 pm UTC

This is a really neat data visualization, and I would love to buy a poster of it...

if Randall takes the time to go back and fix the spelling and data errors that pepper it.

In the interests of finding errors and fixing them, I'd like to note that in the Billions section:
Birdman and 50 cent appear to have 2 billion dollars each, but are labeled as 1 billon. Dr Dre has a similar label problem. $1 per US citizen has an extra ",000" applied to it.

I can't imagine how much work this must have taken; it's a great visualisation and tons of fun to peruse. Perhaps Randall could set up a crowd source mechanism to proofread it to get ready to make a cleaned up poster version? I know at the end of a long project like this the last thing you want to do is go over an errata but it could be good to let somebody else do the grunt work there...

Overall, I really appreciate this and think it looks super nifty.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby VioletCLM » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:45 pm UTC

The trillions section would seem to be missing the Federal Reserve's global bank bailouts.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Parrothead » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:47 pm UTC

marieC wrote:Those are some damn expensive cats though.

It might include apartment pet fees.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby jheath » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

Another typo: under the Millions category quite a few items (Qialong vase, Magna Carta, etc.) are equally valued at $83,710,000... probably Randall forgot to change the value after pasting.

Mistakes are quite understandable with an undertaking of this magnitude, so I'm not complaining... I just hope Randall will come back with a corrected version after the community is finished vetting his work.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby lassehp » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:48 pm UTC

Is the average hourly wage for production workers correct: 19.61 in 1965, and 19.71 in 2007????
When compared to the CEO, it really makes me, as a Dane from a "socialist paradise", wonder why there hasn't been a bloody revolution a long time ago.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby carolineee » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:53 pm UTC

It's amazing how much money people spend on their cellphone bills.
Also, how owning a rabbit seems to be more costly than owning a dog.
I love/hate the cost of energy box, because it just isn't as simple as comparing some numbers and the extra info for conventional coal and nuclear power gives an idea of what else to consider, although the box makes some sources look better/worse than they actually are.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Manabu » Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:57 pm UTC

Where I can download the original 1:1 image? I don't want to use my web browser to see this comic.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby mudlock » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:00 pm UTC

lassehp wrote:Is the average hourly wage for production workers correct: 19.61 in 1965, and 19.71 in 2007????

I believe those are correct, but are _inflation_adjusted_ values.

lassehp wrote:When compared to the CEO, it really makes me, as a Dane from a "socialist paradise", wonder why there hasn't been a bloody revolution a long time ago.


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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby silexh » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:02 pm UTC

This thing is incredible.

For the people having problems, I've uploaded the pictures (all 2211 of them). To connect those pictures I've also uploaded some webpages to put all those pictures together, you can put them in the same folder as the images.
I've also uploaded a php script that can create complete pages, you can modify the location to something more local for speed.

Here they are:
Last edited by silexh on Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:26 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Scott Auld » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:03 pm UTC


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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby DarsVaeda » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:06 pm UTC

Some idea for OccupyWallstreet might be printing this large scale and put it up on the New York Stock Exchange...
I mean now that they are not well very welcome there.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby rhomboidal » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:08 pm UTC

"US spending on wars" has a top number of just over 8 billion, but WWII alone is over 4 trillion. Is this a typo, or creative accounting by the DoD?

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Inconvenient and Unnecessary

Postby WK1 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:08 pm UTC

This browser/javascript application is awfully inconvenient. Requires a lot of clicking and dragging, and doesn't seem to recognize any sort of keyboard shortcuts.

Why can't we just download a large png image? Then we can browse it in whatever application we want. I just want to load a png in my browser and scroll with the arrow keys. This "PanoJS" javascript application is unnecessary and makes it harder to view the content.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby alpha754293 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:13 pm UTC

I think that there are several errors in your chart (don't know if they're intentional or not).

e.g. Typical Household Income:
Top 10% - $201,100.
Top 1% $201,100. (even though counting the little squares, it should be around $422,000.)

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Kurdt » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:19 pm UTC

Great comic, still absorbing it all, but I am simply amazed at how you can "charge" two hours to make rice & pinto beans. Granted I'm single, but shopping takes me less than an hour per week (7 x 3 = 21 meals) and popping a pre-packaged rice & beans mixture into my rice cooker takes less than a minute. Even if I were to cook them in separate pots and hand-wash everything we're talking maybe 15min. I feel the characterization that this somehow adds up to 2h wildly inaccurate, not to mention the notion of "time spent shopping" is not incurred per meal like the trip to McDonalds would be. Yes sorry this has me really fired up.

FWIW, I've cooked a mexican-style soft taco meal (pork, chicken, rice, beans, etc) for 100 people at an average cost of $2.50 each with 12h of shopping and prep. I'm a software engineer so you could probably charge more for my time, but we're still not approaching $10/person unless I charge like I'm a consultant.

OTOH McDonald's are everywhere, so the time to drive there is not going to be as long as for say Outback, plus usually you're picking up McDonald's on the way home.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby ravi12346 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:20 pm UTC

As others have said, this is an incredibly impressive undertaking, but there are lots of little mistakes. I haven't finished reading through everything yet, but here are the mistakes I've caught so far (some have been mentioned by other people in this thread):

funny-looking blemish on "Daily interest on average credit card debt ($9,840)"

"Nissan Cube" uses $34,644 figure from "Hyundai Sonata"
"Top 1%" uses $201,100 figure from "Top 10%"

Magna Carta, Double Eagle count, and Treskilling stamp all use $83.71m figure from Qianlong Chinese vase
"Buri Khalifa" near bottom right

"Silvo Berlusconi and family" in "Billionaires" section
"Trade books" ($14.13b) label printed again in the "Charity" field
three companies labeled ExxonMobil (and with the same stats)
two companies labeled as GE (but with different stats)
one large unlabeled block in "education" region
"Medicaid" label placed too low
"Upper milddle incomes" in quintile graph
AT&T attempted T-Mobile purchase uses $2.98b figure from LivingSocial
CO unlabeled in "State government spending"
"Other" US foreign military aid uses $5.8b figure from Afghanistan
"US foreign humanitarian and economic aid" uses $11.01b figure from "US foreign military aid"
one of the "Corporate tax deduction" fields uses the $21.39b figure from another
"Disasters" note on 9/11: "… if a similar rule exists for to terrorism"
"Five things I learned while researching this chart" contains six things

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Ken_g6 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:20 pm UTC

Another blog has highlighted your electricity section. I'm embarassed to admit I went there before viewing xkcd. :oops:

In any case, a few things there look wrong. Natural gas power and solar (thermal) power have equal numbers but unequal blocks. Total external societal costs from coal power also equal coal's cost, but are less than the sum of the subtotals.

My apologies if any of these have been mentioned before; I didn't see them.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby marcos » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:22 pm UTC

Amazing, very, very cool. Some typos though, one that I don't think has been pointed out yet: on the 'thousands' area both the top 10% and top 1% have $201,100 as income

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Stryver » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:26 pm UTC

Excellent graphic! I enjoyed it greatly.

To add to the editing...

Burj Khalifa in the Millions section is spelled Buri.

Magna Carta, Double Eagle coin and Yellow postage stamp all have incorrect price (Chinese vase also has same price, but appears to be correct.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby Stoove » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:32 pm UTC

Hi Guys,
I read the money comic and I really enjoyed the perspective. Wrapping your mind around the volume of the world economy is tough and the comic certainly helped. I manage a group of bond analysts in the research division of Citi and I wanted to make a point about the size of the derivatives market. I see these numbers thrown around a lot in the media and if anyone wondered this, I'd like to explain what they mean.

About 80% of that $439 trillion is the interest rate swap market, so I'll start there. An interest rate swap is an agreement where you and I decide to exchange risk exposures, usually between fixed and floating rate payments. If I have a fixed stream of cash flows but want to protect myself from interest rate variability and you have a source of variable cash flows with a fixed set of liabilities, we might swap them. The agreement might look like this:

I agree to pay you a fixed interest rate of 1.34% and you pay me the variable rate of LIBOR (London Inter-bank Offer Rate) for 5 years. This percentage is based off of an arbitrary number called a notional amount, which is what the payments are based on. Usually notional it $1000 for each "side" of the swap. Assuming one payment per year, I might pay you $11.34 (1.34% x $1000) at the end of the year and you might pay me $5. (Seems like an unfair deal but LIBOR rates are projected to rise over the next 5 years)

Anyway, for the purpose of that $439 trillion number, this agreement would count as 1000 + 11.34 + 1000 + 5 = $2016.34 dollars toward that total. Add a few decimal places and you have $439 trillion. This is hundreds of times larger than the 6 bucks that traded hands.

There are a few other good descriptions of this if you Google "size of the derivatives market" but since I'm a new member, I wont post links. =-)

Last edited by Stoove on Mon Nov 21, 2011 9:27 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 0980: "Money"

Postby markds75 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:34 pm UTC

In Thousands:
  • Typical Household Income - Top 10% and Top 1% have the same number label ($201,100), but the Top 1% clearly have more dots; looks like that label should be something in the $800,000 range.

In Millions:
  • Prizes box - last entry is missing one digit of the date: "$1,000,000 in 193".
  • 2010 Presidential campaign fundraising probably refers to the 2004 campaign (Bush v. Kerry).

In Billions:
  • "Combined annual profits of the five largest oil companies" is more than 15X the "US Annual oil and gas subsidies" (36 trillion vs 1.9 trillion), but only has about 5 trillion more in dots. The number for "Ethanol subsidies" is also 1.9 trillion, so I suspect the number for "US Annual oil and gas subsidies" is wrong.

But beyond that, and other typos that have been mentioned ... wow! That is damned impressive! Thank you!

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