0986: "Drinking Fountains"

[nich_chin]

You wouldn't actually need to drink to get fluid in you. IV saline would be the best way to get a constant stream of fluid in IMO. I remember being on it when i was in hospital. my throat was dry and i felt really thirsty, but i kept having to use the loo..

[BioTurboNick]

Another thought is why is urine excreted separately to faeces? if urine was excreted directly into the intestines, some water could be reclaimed, and it might be a more efficient system, but then I guess it's also possible the the bowels would reabsorb substances that were specifically excreted via urine so that is possibly a count against that method, although IIRC birds excrete urine and faeces together.

Consider also that reptiles, being cold-blooded, need to conserve water more than mammals do (and birds came from reptiles...). The uric acid they produce is not water soluble and comes from ammonia directly, which requires energy. The urea we produce is water-soluble and is produced from breaking down nucleotide bases. In us, too much uric acid can be harmful by depositing in places.

So it's probably an evolutionary trade-off, with some historical variability retained. Dry product which is energy-heavy but allows conservation of water, or wet product which is easy to produce and less harmful but is less water-efficient.

I'm sure I've missed bits of it too, but this is what I've gleaned in my brief research.

[The Moomin]

The random "Water" next to the bathroom door

Yeah, about that... What's it doing there?

I suspect it's a label to show that it's a water cycle being depicted in the flow chart.

[SirMustapha]

I suspect it's a label to show that it's a water cycle being depicted in the flow chart.

Because no one would be able to realise that otherwise. But wouldn't it be more appropriate to put the "label" at the very top, or at the very bottom, then?

[Ephemeron]

This comic is perhaps the dumbest ever. It fails epically as observational humour because this sort of thing would never happen. It's not even biologically possible. If you've already peed once, you won't need to pee again for a few hours - it's SCIENCE.

And the alt text - REALLY? The point it's making is 'Wouldn't it be cool to pee continuously?' No - why would you even think that? The last sentence of the alt text implies that he actually wants to do it. It's described in the manner of one of Randall's cute hypotheticals, like the ball pit or the flying swingset, except this one is not cute! Ugh! Surely Randall must be running out of ideas.

I'll leave you with this quote from xkcdsucks:

To think, if Megan was able to lactate continously, and Randy could drink slow enough, and eliminate fast enough (into Megan's mouth), there could be an endless loop of drinking and peeing milk! (or drinking pee and being milked, depending on the perspective).

[SirMustapha]

This comic is perhaps the dumbest ever. It fails epically as observational humour because this sort of thing would never happen. It's not even biologically possible. If you've already peed once, you won't need to pee again for a few hours - it's SCIENCE.

Shh! Watch out! They're going to cleverly retort saying that "IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE REALISTIC!" And, of course, they'll fail to realise that this comic fails as any other kind of humour. As we know, a joke demands at least some degree of wit; and in every level, in every aspect, this joke is only simply stupid.

The thread just plainly amazes me, but it still reminds me of why I keep posting. As of now, the reaction of a more or less typical xkcd fan is more or less this:

Hm, a person would have to drink X ml of water per minute and eliminate Y ml of urine per minute in order to pee continuously, based on the rate of production of urine in an average human, which is Z ml per minute etc.

... but I have faith that, someday, that reaction will change to:

Hm, a person would have to drink X ml of water per minute and eliminate Y ml of urine per minute in order to-- ... EEEWWWW, GROSS!! CANNOT UNSEE

[jonadab]

The alt text is backwards. "drink FAST enough, and eliminate SLOWLY enough" would make more sense.

Exactly what I was thinking, and the drinking speed is the less important issue, given that your kidneys can only operate so quickly. Normally you eliminate 8-12 hours' worth of liquid waste in less than a minute. The trick is to pee slowly enough...

Although I'm pretty sure this isn't possible anyway. You would probably die of water intoxication before reaching a steady-state.

No, it is possible. People do it, albeit with mechanical assistance. (The technology normally used to accomplish this is called a "catheter".)

[DavidRoss]

Try being pregnant.
Some days, I do feel like I'm peeing and drinking constantly.

Body needs more water -> drink more -> body processing more water -> pee more. And, repeat... for nine months.

I think that's about as close as I'll come to replicating the experiment.
Trust me. It's no picnic.

And, after nine months, you think you'd be done with the drinking/peeing continuous loop only to find that you've outsourced it to the newbie.

[DavidRoss]

This is one of the stupidest - if not the single stupidest - comic ever posted here.

It's not realistic enough to be a worthwhile thinking point, and it's not absurd enough to be funny. Just ... totally pointless.

Well, in addition to criticizing Randall, you've also criticised the rest of us who have, at one point, wondered - if even momentarily - whether a continuous loop is possible. We may immediately realise that the kidneys provide the limiting factor and probably surmise that the max drip rate from the kidneys is less than the min pee drip rate that would qualify as what one would qualify as "continuous", etc., etc. Does that make it pointless that we've wondered that at some point in our lives?

I think this comic is interesting on two levels. One is whether you can have a continuous loop (no; but perhaps sometimes it can feel that way) and the other is whether there is an inherent marketing conspiracy going on between the lavatory installers and the water fountain makers to generate more business for the lavatories.

[DavidRoss]

The bathroom on my floor of the dorm I live in has a drinking fountain INSIDE the bathroom. Go figure.

I know it sorta looks like a drinking fountain, but you're not really supposed to drink out of those things....

OK, that was funny.

[Farabor]

Y'know, this comic just reminded me of how little I truly grok DHMO.

(Sheesh, this far into a water XKCD thread, and neither term came up? For shame!)

[jeff0106]

I sometimes feel like this once I've drank a lot of beer. Once I start going, I go pretty frequently. Drink a beer, go to bathroom, repeat.

[Fire Brns]

I suspect it's a label to show that it's a water cycle being depicted in the flow chart.

Because no one would be able to realise that otherwise.

Maybe people would think it's a kool-aid fountain? Ever think about that? Huh?

[AvatarIII]

I sometimes feel like this once I've drank a lot of beer. Once I start going, I go pretty frequently. Drink a beer, go to bathroom, repeat.

When I was younger, we used to have a saying
After the Double-FP (Fatal First Piss, meaning you can have a few beers before you need to pee for the first time), comes the Triple-P (Piss Per Pint, you need to pee after every beer)

[smilingjack1]

There was what may be an apocryphal tale told in Burnaby, B.C., Canada in one of the oldest beer halls in the province about a time when a small beer cost 5 cents and there was a man who would bet anyone with $10 that he could drink 100 of them without stopping. This was in a time when there were separate rooms for Gents, and Ladies with Escorts, so there were never any women in this room.When he found someone who wanted to take him up on the wager the bartender would bring out a galvanized tub and put it between his feet, and begin to serve him the 100 beers. Before starting to drink he would casually open his fly and position his member over the tub. As he drank, when the need to pee came on him he would simply let go and pee in the tub. They say he never lost a bet. This was before my time, but I heard the story from seveal guys who swore to it's veracity.

[Oflick]

An episode of QI said that you think better while peeing. Therefore, I don't think he has to worry about not being able to come up with a lie.

[Eebster the Great]

An episode of QI said that you think better while peeing. Therefore, I don't think he has to worry about not being able to come up with a lie.

QI says lots of dubious things.

[SirMustapha]

Well, in addition to criticizing Randall, you've also criticised the rest of us who have, at one point, wondered - if even momentarily - whether a continuous loop is possible.

I don't think he did so, actually. One thing is to, at some point in time, think about that; another thing entirely is to make a comic about it and publish online. Competely different situations there.

[AvatarIII]

Well, in addition to criticizing Randall, you've also criticised the rest of us who have, at one point, wondered - if even momentarily - whether a continuous loop is possible.

I don't think he did so, actually. One thing is to, at some point in time, think about that; another thing entirely is to make a comic about it and publish online. Competely different situations there.

isn't "playing out those fleeting thoughts you have" one of the things xkcd has done time and time again? hence, you know... GOOMHR...

[SirMustapha]

Well, in addition to criticizing Randall, you've also criticised the rest of us who have, at one point, wondered - if even momentarily - whether a continuous loop is possible.

I don't think he did so, actually. One thing is to, at some point in time, think about that; another thing entirely is to make a comic about it and publish online. Competely different situations there.

isn't "playing out those fleeting thoughts you have" one of the things xkcd has done time and time again? hence, you know... GOOMHR...

Yes, to a great degree, but that doesn't imply that "any random shit Randall thinks up is necessarily worth publishing". Every kind of art needs some sort of filter, you know.

[webgiant]

The alt text is backwards. "drink FAST enough, and eliminate SLOWLY enough" would make more sense.
Although I'm pretty sure this isn't possible anyway. You would probably die of water intoxication before reaching a steady-state.

It isn't backwards. You drink slowly enough to allow the water to pass through your system to your bladder before reaching the point where you can't drink any more water and thus have no reason to be standing at the water fountain. If you drink quickly your stomach fills up and you leave.

However, within the first two iterations water intoxication will set in, meaning this is not an infinite loop.

[bigjeff5]

I laughed, as I haven't thought of that particular potential loop in at least a decade and a half.

*Pats self on back for disproving SirMustapha's theory that this comic is not funny*

The point is, different people find different things funny. Just because you are not the intended audience doesn't mean the intended audience didn't find it funny.

I'm sorry, SirMustapha, but you are not the arbiter of all things comedic, nor all things artistic.

Still, your tirades are pretty amusing, if a little predictable.

[SirMustapha]

I laughed, as I haven't thought of that particular potential loop in at least a decade and a half.

*Pats self on back for disproving SirMustapha's theory that this comic is not funny*

The point is, different people find different things funny. Just because you are not the intended audience doesn't mean the intended audience didn't find it funny.

I'm sorry, SirMustapha, but you are not the arbiter of all things comedic, nor all things artistic.

You realise that I wasn't the only one, nor the first one, to criticise this comic, right? I have no idea why you're picking on me -- I guess you just need some ego inflation on my expense today.

Also, why am I not the "intended audience"? What exactly rules me out? The tagline says the comic is "about math, romance, sarcasm and language". I like all those things. Why am I still not in the "indended audience"? Because you excluded me? Oh, I know! It's just that I don't have that stupid, ridiculous prejudice against "liberal arts majors", which I interpret as "I don't understand it therefore it's wrong". So that's why I'm out.

[Kartoffelkopf]

>2011
>drinking fountains
ISHYGDDT.

[Eebster the Great]

>2011
>drinking fountains
ISHYGDDT.

What miraculous technology has eliminated our need to drink water?

I do not carry water everywhere I go, and sometimes I get thirsty.

[Netreker0]

I laughed, as I haven't thought of that particular potential loop in at least a decade and a half.

*Pats self on back for disproving SirMustapha's theory that this comic is not funny*

The point is, different people find different things funny. Just because you are not the intended audience doesn't mean the intended audience didn't find it funny.

I'm sorry, SirMustapha, but you are not the arbiter of all things comedic, nor all things artistic.

You realise that I wasn't the only one, nor the first one, to criticise this comic, right? I have no idea why you're picking on me -- I guess you just need some ego inflation on my expense today.

I'm guessing by how you usually respond to people who respond to your comments in a way you don't like that you're not actually looking for an answer to this question, but I'll risk giving you one anyway. You're certainly not the only one who thinks a comic has completely missed, and you're obviously not the only one who has posted that opinion, but if you keep reading the threads, the posters who get "picked on" are the ones who go beyond pointing out the comic's shortcomings and start being critical and condescending towards other readers who may disagree with you.

I actually agree with you on this comic--it really wasn't absurd enough to be funny to me, and it wasn't clever enough to be thought provoking. Yet, the main thing I'll probably remember from this thread with isn't how perceptive that observation was, but how hilarious it was to read this post coming from the guy who himself seems to come here primarily for an exercise in ego inflation at the expense of everyone without his "refined" standards of humor.

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

[brenok]

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

What would make my day was a defensive rant about Art Majors who think "I don't understand science therefore it's wrong"

[Eebster the Great]

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

What would make my day was a defensive rant about Art philosophy theology Majors who think "I don't understand science therefore it's wrong"

This shit frustrates me to no end.

[DavidRoss]

Yes, to a great degree, but that doesn't imply that "any random shit Randall thinks up is necessarily worth publishing". Every kind of art needs some sort of filter, you know.

Then, I guess we'd agree that a great many Twitter streams are not art, as they are not filtered. As for "filter" being a necessary component of "art" I would say IMHO that as an amateur and bystander, I would hope that all artists filter themselves or get filtered before I am subjected to it. However, for those who have more expertise in the art field (most people), I would defer to them on the whether art requires a filter.

While there can be some disagreement among well-minded souls, I would have to say that, in comic filter units of DtM, XKCD is easily above 300 Dtm. (1 Dtm is the amount of filtering applied to the comic Dennis the Menace; Garfield is at about 2.5 DtM.)

[babble]

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

But mathematics is one of the 'liberal arts' and therefore the smug 'advanced mathematics makes it unsuitable' thing on the front page is infuriating. It's newly infuriating every single time.

This must be the 78564th time someone has pointed this out on here, but it's still there on the front page making the whole ethos of the comic look really stupid.

[Eebster the Great]

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

But mathematics is one of the 'liberal arts' and therefore the smug 'advanced mathematics makes it unsuitable' thing on the front page is infuriating. It's newly infuriating every single time.

This must be the 78564th time someone has pointed this out on here, but it's still there on the front page making the whole ethos of the comic look really stupid.

Pure math is. Applied math is usually in a different school.

[Pfhorrest]

But mathematics is one of the 'liberal arts'

You know, this is a very good point, but not one strongly enough made.

Most of the classical "liberal arts" are some form of mathematics.

The liberal arts are composed of the trivium and the quadrivium.

The trivium is grammar, logic, and rhetoric. Logic is now considered a form of mathematics.

The quadrivium is arithmetic, geometry, "music", and "astronomy". The former two are unquestionably part of mathematics as we understand it today. The latter two not so much, but I put them in quotes because the way they were construed in the quadrivium is rather separate from the subject matter as we consider it today: the four parts of the quadrivium are "number in itself" (arithmetic), "number in space" (geometry), "number in time" ("music"), and "number in space and time" ("astronomy"). In other words, "music" and "astronomy" were considered for their mathematical elements, and all four parts of the quadrivium are really about math.

Incidentally the trivium was considered the most elementary part of the liberal arts, hence where the term "trivial" arises. Logic was supposed to be a trivial or elementary skill; and really, considering its similarities to elementary algebra, I think it should be taught at the same time as the linguistic cognate to that level of math. (As we teach counting along with basic vocabulary, how to write numerals along with spelling, arithmetic along with grammar... and then go into artsy types of language classes, instead of teaching logic alongside algebra. Statistics and rhetoric would make a nice pair too).

And all of this was considered basic prep work for the serious study of philosophy.

[SirMustapha]

Then, I guess we'd agree that a great many Twitter streams are not art, as they are not filtered.

I don't know what a Twitter stream is, so I have no idea.

However, for those who have more expertise in the art field (most people), I would defer to them on the whether art requires a filter.

The good and mature artist is exactly the one that sees the need of a filter. A "filter" does not necessarily have to be, say, a group of people who will say "I like this" or "I don't like this", but may just be the artist's own wisdom to see something he has done and evaluate if it deserves being published as a finished work, or shelved as an exercise or sketch, or as pure crap anyway. Art is inherently filtered, because it is conscious: a kid banging on a toy piano is not making art because he is not consciously doing so: he is just playing. Now, if a musician records it and uses it on a finished piece, then it is art, because the artist knows what he is doing. Art happens when a human decides to express himself, and for a reason. I won't argue that Randall isn't "expressing himself" in this comic, but I judge it as random stream-of-consciousness garbage.

While there can be some disagreement among well-minded souls, I would have to say that, in comic filter units of DtM, XKCD is easily above 300 Dtm. (1 Dtm is the amount of filtering applied to the comic Dennis the Menace; Garfield is at about 2.5 DtM.)

Not so sure. I would say that xkcd is very random and hit-or-miss. Some comics have a sniff of 10 DtM, while others (like today) reach down to 0.5 DtM or so.

[Weeks]

[snip]
I'm guessing by how you usually respond to people who respond to your comments in a way you don't like that you're not actually looking for an answer to this question, but I'll risk giving you one anyway. You're certainly not the only one who thinks a comic has completely missed, and you're obviously not the only one who has posted that opinion, but if you keep reading the threads, the posters who get "picked on" are the ones who go beyond pointing out the comic's shortcomings and start being critical and condescending towards other readers who may disagree with you.

I actually agree with you on this comic--it really wasn't absurd enough to be funny to me, and it wasn't clever enough to be thought provoking. Yet, the main thing I'll probably remember from this thread with isn't how perceptive that observation was, but how hilarious it was to read this post coming from the guy who himself seems to come here primarily for an exercise in ego inflation at the expense of everyone without his "refined" standards of humor.

That, and the defensive rant about liberal arts majors kind of made my day, too.

This post made my day

[addams]

Yes. I, also, attempt to avoid loops; Sometimes.

!Air Ports!
Over the course of ten years I went from being a Fan of Airports to being Airport-a-phobic.

During the final stages of this transformation I found myself in a LOOP. Fuck.

I used tobacco the way many people use it. It can have a calming and centering effect. It is a doing.

My LOOP. It was my LOOP and I had to break it.

I went through security. They were so mean. They yelled at me. They went through my stuff. I had to take off some of my clothes. I dared not argue with them. By the time they were done with me and I had repacked my shit. I wanted a cigarette.

So; I went out to have a cigarette. Fine!

Ahhh! Through security, again. And; Again? How many times did I do that? (Shrug.)

Finely; I got it right, somehow and made it onto that flight. Maybe, they got tired of yelling at me. Maybe, I got used to it. I got it down to a Science. I had my shit, just, the way they wanted it.

!LOOPS! Some are fun. Most are logistics.

The Loo is another good example. If, I go in to a cafe' to use the Loo and the requirement is that I have Coffee, then, in twenty minutes I will need another Coffee Shop or Cafe. See? Its a LOOP.

My favorite way to break that one is to walk out of town. Wild pissing and carry your own water.

Whaaaa. The guy I walk with is so far away. Whaaaa.

It is, just, more fun to walk with a friend.

I walk so slowly. My friend walks so fast.

Airport-a-Phobic. There is one Airport that I am not afraid of. It is a strange place. O.K. I am afraid of it, too.

Drinking Fountain Loops and True Confessions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUz1ZI-w ... re=related

Not all fountains are the same. Do we really need to tell people, "Don't drink the Ferrofluid."?

Maybe;

Some people have fountains that look like that with chocolate flowing like ferrofluid. The world is an amazing place. The strange things that people will do.

All magnetic stuff is loopy. Right? How do we want our reality? Stringy or Loopy.

Each has its place.

Whaaa! The guys that I walk with are so far away. Whaaaa!

Maybe, I should use those faces on the side. What is a Whaaa!?

O.K. That is a visual. A second visual.

Now; Change it! To? Yep. Yep. How to get from to ?

It is simply one up on the read out.

The very first day of the year and What am I doing with it? Tisk. Tisk.

Nothing; It is a tradition. I had better get busy.

Give myself a Deadline. Then an Outline. Then, Go!

[Kaiman]

This comic is proof that Randall is American and not European.