1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
BlitzGirl
Posts: 8999
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:48 am UTC
Location: Both Present and Past...... Schizoblitz: 115/2601 NP
Contact:

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby BlitzGirl » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:40 am UTC

J Thomas wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:So in place of "you" you'd rather say "ye"?

Didn't people used to do that some? I wonder why it died out. Outside of ye olde Renfaires, I mean.

Actually, the manner in which you use "ye" in "ye olde Renfaires" is a case where it represents the word THE instead of the word YOU. #EtymologyMan
Knight Temporal of the One True Comic
BlitzGirl the Pink, Mopey Molpy Mome
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image<-Blog
~.Image~.FAQ->Image

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:00 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
J Thomas wrote:So in place of "you" you'd rather say "ye"?

Didn't people used to do that some? I wonder why it died out. Outside of ye olde Renfaires, I mean.

Actually, the manner in which you use "ye" in "ye olde Renfaires" is a case where it represents the word THE instead of the word YOU. #EtymologyMan

Thank you, I was going to correct that and got sidetracked (being a participant of ye olde renaissance pleasure faires myself). Also, fixed those quotes for you.

@JT, reviving "ye" wasn't the point of our comment, no; however, we are saddened at its loss. Acceptable compensation would be if we all adopted the "royal we" (or better still, the "mathematician's we"); in addition to the neutral singular "they", that would just remove number from our pronouns entirely and leave us with the once-plurals for all persons. "You all", "we all", and "they all" can serve to distinguish plurality where necessary.

(Hey, it'd be easier than reviving "ye").
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

J Thomas
Everyone's a jerk. You. Me. This Jerk.^
Posts: 1190
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:18 pm UTC

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby J Thomas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:51 am UTC

BlitzGirl wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:So in place of "you" you'd rather say "ye"?

Didn't people used to do that some? I wonder why it died out. Outside of ye olde Renfaires, I mean.

Actually, the manner in which you use "ye" in "ye olde Renfaires" is a case where it represents the word THE instead of the word YOU. #EtymologyMan


Oh yes, you're right.

But don't some people use "ye" as second person at Renfaires?

@Pfhorrest, I like your idea. I'm not sure whether simplifying grammar is easier than adding to it. It depends on which way the mass of the users are heading. If you try to get them to do more of what they're already doing more of, it will seem easier. In either case, probably what works best is to just do it the way you want it to go, or something in that direction, and see whether anybody copies you. When people tell you that you're using bad grammar, perhaps the easiest approach is to just apologize and then keep doing it your way. Arguing with people who want it some other way does not help make it your way. What helps create grammar change is people actually doing it the new way in contexts where they get copied. I think. I could be wrong.
The Law of Fives is true. I see it everywhere I look for it.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 4541
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:48 am UTC

J Thomas wrote:But don't some people use "ye" as second person at Renfaires?

Yes, as they did in Þe Olde English, too. The problem is with using "ye" in place of "the", because nobody ever actually spoke aloud a word pronounced /ji/ ("yee") to mean "the". Instead, they had a special character, thorn (Þ), which was pronounced like a modern "th", and in some scripts the loop on the right got raised and angled out and narrowed and eventually you ended up with something that looked like an ornate "y", which modern readers misinterpret as such and pronounce like "ye".

So when you see written "Ye Olde..." whatever, you should imagine it really says "Þe Olde...", and pronounce it "The Old...".

TL;DR: There were two different words, "Ye" and "Þe", one of which is no longer used and the other of which is now spelled "the".
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Alaska Girl
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:08 pm UTC
Location: The white North

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby Alaska Girl » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:23 am UTC

dp2 wrote:
Alaska Girl wrote:"You will be led to judgement [sic] like lambs to the slaughter." I believe it's quoting one of the Old Testament prophets.

Well, maybe. But does one really have to be versed in the Torah / Old Testament to know that phrase or what it means?


No, no, I wouldn't say that at all! I was just wanting to clarify kuttaka's statement about Judeo-Christian references. :P
Hatred is blind, as well as love.

User avatar
Copper Bezel
Posts: 2416
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:35 am UTC
Location: Web exclusive!

Re: 1013: "Wake Up Sheeple"

Postby Copper Bezel » Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:48 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:@JT, reviving "ye" wasn't the point of our comment, no; however, we are saddened at its loss. Acceptable compensation would be if we all adopted the "royal we" (or better still, the "mathematician's we"); in addition to the neutral singular "they", that would just remove number from our pronouns entirely and leave us with the once-plurals for all persons. "You all", "we all", and "they all" can serve to distinguish plurality where necessary.

I'm lucky to live in the Midwest for this point only: we have you and y'all as established constructs for singular and plural second-person, so that I can actually use them and be understood. Not everyone makes the distinction in their own speech, but its meaning is immediately recognized, and I'm much indebted to y'all myself for simplifying many much more complex utterances when the distinction is necessary.

Edit: Ha, and a singular they in there for flavor. Whee.
So much depends upon a red wheel barrow (>= XXII) but it is not going to be installed.

she / her / her


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests