spats wrote:XKCD Fan wrote:He does not realize it but the "pick-up artist" of this comic is actually the winner here. This woman he's taken an interest in has proven herself to be an utter bitch.
Um, no. She reacted the same way anyone should when a stranger comes up and insults them.
Unless you define "bitch" as "woman who isn't accommodating and compliant to whatever bullshit a man wants from her". Which unfortunately, many men do.
If you look at it just so, he came out kind of a winner. If he had tricked her into having sex with him, and then they got into a continuing relationship, he would probably have gotten hurt a whole lot more. By persuading him to go away she kind of did him a favor.
J Thomas wrote:If you believe you can't ask a respectable woman to have sex with you, and you can't accept a slut, then manipulating a respectable woman seems far preferable to rape.
I think you just broke my brain.
If you can't bring yourself to be open and honest with a woman, and you are repulsed by any woman who seems open to what you're interested in, then you are either mentally ill or at best are failing to appreciate the basic fact that women are people. Seek therapy, and stay away from women.
Yes, and my point is that there are a whole lot of men like that even today. Imagine what it would have been like if the depictions of traditional society are correct? Respectable women -- the large majority -- would never ever have sex with anybody until they were married. If you wanted to marry one of those you'd go through an elaborate courtship, and eventually marry with the consent of the whole community. If you wanted to have sex with anybody else it would be probably a prostitute. Or a woman who for some reason was ready to defy society, or a woman of such low class that she didn't care about any of it. Therefore probably poor enough that she'd need to be a prostitute.
In that context, going to a bar to meet easy women would be a big moral failure in itself. And there are a lot of men who still have those ideas embedded in their backbrains. Even though in a modern context they seem mentally ill.
Okay, here's something to think about: when evaluating a woman's behavior or reaction or thinking about how to talk to her, turn the tables. Pretend you are her and she is you. What would you want in that situation? What would you want to hear? How would you feel? How would you react? Act accordingly. It's that simple.
Yes, that's simple. When I'm actually in that situation I tend to feel kind of enraged. I'm a decent man, not a homosexual at all. How dare he act that way! Rationally it seems kind of ridiculous. So long as there are no diseases involved, why should it even matter? If I can help somebody else be *very happy* at no cost to myself but a bit of grotesque behavior, why not? But it's in my backbrain. So I say no.
Once when a casual friend started giving weird vibes like he was too shy to ask, I said, "Are you gay? I'm not gay. But I have a gay friend that I think is lonely, and smart, and I could introduce you." He laughed and said, "That's J". But he didn't take me up on the invitation.
Perhaps what I ought to do is pretend I'm a woman who's interested in having a one-night-stand, but only with the right guy. But when I do that, how do I know whether I'm getting it right? The women who have shared a lot of their thinking with me, have been quite diverse. What should I assume about one particular woman, when I'm starting a conversation with her?
If she's a decent woman -- like me -- she might be interested in pleasant witty conversation. She might become a good friend. She will definitely say no to any sexual advances whatsoever. If I think I might want to marry her I should specifically ask her out on a "date". Even after a long series of "dates" I must expect she will not be willing to have sex, though if she continues them she will act like she wants to. But I would not date a homosexual on that basis, if he asked me for a date.
If you can't do that - can't put yourself in another person's shoes - you're a sociopath.
Perhaps I am. People don't come with instruction manuals, and they are diverse. I'm not very good at predicting how they feel about things, until they show me. It would be easier if I lived in a community where everybody shared the same values. Then I could just learn the values of the community and I could put myself in anybody's shoes. But I do not live in a place like that.
The Law of Fives is true. I see it everywhere I look for it.
