The Great Hippo wrote:
between3and30 wrote:Going out constantly and observing social interactions creates a fair amount of evidence.
Remember that anecdotal evidence is often self-affirming; confirmation bias
is a big problem.
I suspect that the primary group pushing PUA--its main advocates and teachers--are relatively attractive, charismatic, confident men. How much does their luck in sex have to do with a system of codified techniques, and how much of it has to do with our attraction toward charismatic, confident, pleasant-looking people? When self-conscious people have some sort of structure to 'fall back' on in social situations, don't they often act more confident? How much of this is really about the system and how much of this is about having
a system to begin with?
Mind you, I think PUA is a load of manipulative horse-shit regardless
of its efficacy. I'm just not convinced it's effective at what it's doing, and anecdotes aren't going to convince me otherwise.
This is the first criticism of the community that I actually respect. Perhaps PUA stuff works because it's the first attempt at people understanding attraction and seduction, and creating a codified system for it.
However, keep in mind that no 2 PUAs are the same. There are literally hundreds of systems out there, and there are PUAs that argue with each other over the merits of their system. The only piece of advice that I've seen PUAs advocate uniformly is this: Keep approaching women, and keep on accepting rejection, as it will build your confidence and make you outcome-independent. Other than that, attacks on the PUA community pretty much amount to attacks on the idea of openly discussing how to win a woman's affections.
Belial wrote:If that were the case, it wouldn't be a community with techniques and books dedicated to those techniques. It would be a sentence.
Would that sentence be "Be yourself?" Because that sentence is completely ineffective, it doesn't critique anyone's flirting behavior, and it doesn't teach guys how to be confident.
The reason why there are so many books is because there are so many different personalities, both in PUAs and average guys, and different people use different opening lines to break the ice, different ways to transition from an opening line to a conversation (my personal choice is "nouning", taking the nouns from each sentence, relating it to a personal story, and following up with an open ended question), different ways to show a girl that you're outcome independent and confident, different ways to get a girl to show that she's qualified to be in some sort of relationship with you, etc.
Mystery prefers to talk about these things in terms of specific actions. His philosophy is that what you say and do affect how you think and act.
Tyler Durden prefers to talk about these things in terms of perspective. He shows that truly independent men can take the perspectives of people around them, and shift them so that everyone else sees things from your perspective.
Juggler prefers to talk about these things in terms of body language. He points out that 95% of communication is unspoken, and he shows you how confident people like Brad Pitt have good voice tonality, body language, facial expressions, and other forms of multi-level communication.
So really, pick-up is about learning psychology, philosophy, sociology, self-improvement, self-motivation, etc. under the guise of "being able to get laid". As Juggler himself said, no one can really understand what it's like being in the community until they're a part of it.
I'm waiting for someone to say something worth sigging...