1075: "Warning"

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pyronius
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby pyronius » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:35 pm UTC

hmm. odd timing.

got in a fender bender yesterday. my SUV vs. her tiny convertible. I won. unfortunately, playing the blame game means i didn't really win, i lost horribly because it'll almost certainly be deemed my fault. I'm still not sure where the hell she came from, one second she was at the exact opposite end of the street and i was beginning to turn, the next i was rapidly destroying her humorously small car with my humorously large one. If she wasn't going at least twice the speed limit then she's a god damn teleporter. No injuries.

weird thing is that on the way out earlier that day i felt like my car was desperately trying to pull itself into the car in front of me while we were at a light and had the break pressed down as far as it would go to prevent it. there wasn't any reason, it was just an odd bit of anxiety over something i had no reason to believe was actually happening.

only seconds before i was walking to my car thinking "yeah, you know what? I'm actually feeling pretty good about life for once. I have money, I'm planning some time out of town, maybe god is going to let up on my generally shitty luck for once!" NOPE! If he exists he's an ass.

pierreb
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby pierreb » Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:34 pm UTC

cellocgw wrote:
radtea wrote:
EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
Retsam wrote:This was my dad's approach to drivers ed: "Me letting you drive is like me handing you a gun". It's certainly true, but not much for establishing confidence.


I was told almost the exact same thing about puberty.


Accidents with guns cause death. Accidents with puberty cause life.

intentional hostility with guns cause death. Intentional aggression with puberty cause life. FTFY.


Don't drink and park, accidents cause people.

matt_sharkey
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby matt_sharkey » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:18 pm UTC

This sign seems to know an awful lot about our velocity and momentum. Is it even certain that we are still inside the box?

RichardSnuggle
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby RichardSnuggle » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:56 pm UTC

I enjoy XKCD comics, and have been looking at them for some years. I think Randall Munroe is a very intelligent man and often poses some very insightful, thoughtful, and computer-generation based ideas which often make me laugh. However you can't take evolution as a reality. There's no empirical evidence to back it up. It's not proven. And it has its flaws. As an example take the no intermediary links in the geologic fossil record and in life; which Mr. Charles Darwin himself wrote was contrary to his theory in his book which was published 55661 days ago, on 24 November 1859. It's an old book and his theory is nothing more than baseless speculation in my opinion. Cheers, thanks for the comic.
Last edited by RichardSnuggle on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:49 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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LinuxPenguin
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby LinuxPenguin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:11 am UTC

Weird timing. I witnessed, and stopped to assist at, a rather nasty traffic accident on my way home from work today. Huh.
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Great Justice
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Great Justice » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:31 am UTC

Evolution follows adaptation. We're very adaptable.

Sure, you can be neurotic, paralyzed by fear, and overwhelmed by the ordinary. Evolution favors those who keep their shit together and forge on (and drive according to conditions).
It usually isn't Congress or the State that tries to abridge free expression or free speech, [...] actually, in the present situation, the main threat to expression comes from public opinion.
~Christopher Hitchens

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keithl
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby keithl » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:00 am UTC

keithl wrote:... If one of those other reactors explodes nearby, or two neutron stars collide as distant as 1e17 km away, I get fried with gamma rays.

Evolution prepared me for that. Makes a 1.5e3 kg vehicle moving at 0.030 km/s seem rather tame. ....


J Thomas wrote:Evolution prepared you for nearby novas by persuading you to live in a cave with at least 6 months of stored food.

How ya doin with that?


Glad you asked. The Jolt is getting kinda flat, and the corn chips are stale, but I should have the code done Real Soon Now.

ijuin
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby ijuin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:25 am UTC

Max™ wrote:
cah wrote:The thing is: evolution has prepared humans to be prepared to anything.

Except cancer, bears, sub-prime derivative bubbles, resource wars, religious conflicts, aids, cancer again, lightning, and finally the most deadly threat of all:

Cancerous Electrobear Bankers on a Holy Crusade to spread HIV!

Bear bankers are very well known for Ursury.

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Uzh
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Uzh » Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:36 am UTC

keithl wrote:I'm perched above a 6e24 kg ball of rock and iron hurtling at 30 km/s around a giant thermonuclear reactor. Which passes through a minefield of 300 billion other reactors while circling a gigantic black hole at 220km/s. No steering wheel or brakes. If for some reason I stop moving for even 1 millisecond, I would be surrounded by hard vacuum and boil in my skin, or be deeply embedded in molten rock. If one of those other reactors explodes nearby, or two neutron stars collide as distant as 1e17 km away, I get fried with gamma rays.


Fun fact: You stop moving. It's simply the universe that moves around you.

Georg
"The problem is that humans have these darn biological limitations and if it gets too far from 293 K they'll start complaining, or die." http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=106000#p3483385

Marlayna
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Marlayna » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:33 am UTC

Why would speed make a difference? Acceleration is the only factor that could have an effect on us, and our car doesn't accelerate very much for very long.
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Those who can read binary numbers and those who can't.

Brutz
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Brutz » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:44 am UTC

Does "X times faster/stronger/etc. than Y" mean Y*X or Y*(X+1)? Whenever I break people's balls over what they meant by such expressions, the response is that what they actually meant was the less intuitive X*Y. WHY?! That's supposed to be reserved for expressions like "X times AS fast as Y".

mfb
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby mfb » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:29 pm UTC

squall_line wrote:I might agree with this assertion if so many people didn't get injured every year, and occasionally die, in events like the Tour de France and RAGBRAI. Cycling in the absence of motorists doesn't remove the dangers from gravel, potholes, tar snakes, deer, and various other things out on the cycling surface that can cause significant issues for all those involved, and cycling in large groups can lead to the same multi-person accidents that motoring in large groups can lead to.

These events are not the usual cycling scenario. Most cyclists are significantly slower, and with more distance in between.


"You are in a box, 25 times your own height, sitting atop of ~1,500,000 kg of explosives, which will burned within some minutes to accelerate you to ~7000m/s and bring you into a vacuum full of dangerous radiation and (effective) temperature differences, where you cannot survive longer than a minute without support systems around you. You will be in a zero-g environment for several months, something which no single ancestor of you ever encountered longer than possibly some seconds."

@Brutz: Y(X+1), but for large X the +1 is negligible.

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keithl
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby keithl » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:18 pm UTC

mfb wrote:These events are not the usual cycling scenario. Most cyclists are significantly slower, and with more distance in between.


Hills. Curbs. The western US contains many of the former, and high downhill speeds can result. I had one "intentional" bike accident when rounding a turn in the mountains onto an unexpected long steep downhill grade. My caliper brakes started to melt. As I sped up downhill, with a sharp turn below (and an apparent steep dropoff beyond it), I noticed what looked like a bank of brown dirt to the side. I intentionally ditched into the bank, noticing the sharp basalt gravel in it as it started ripping my clothes and then my skin.

Thank goodness humans invented antibiotics. Evolution prepared me for a life and death decision with a brain that can evaluate tradeoffs and make lightning decisions based on abstract physical reasoning. That same reasoning works while driving a car through an accident; I doubt most other animals can use their neocortex that way, instead relying on evolved reflexes.

A loaded touring bike, another unexpected steep hill, and another encounter with inadequate brakes and rapid acceleration, this time urban. That involved cars (me screaming through a busy intersection against a red light) and another ditch into a curb. Better a smashed helmet than my skull. Convince an animal to wear a helmet.

I still haven't spent big bucks on a bike with a super-duper braking system. Evolution did not prepare me to be rich. But it did prepare me to look at Google Maps topo view to choose my routes.

Humans are time binders, and devote expensive resources and time to prepare for the future. The ones who don't prepare tend to fail sooner than those who do. Those who don't intentionally write warnings like Randall's into their evolved brain cannot safely operate cars, or bicycles, or power tools, or antibiotics, or grocery stores, or any of a zillion other capability-multiplying inventions. Evolution did not prepare us to invent tools like geniuses and use them like idiots.

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SlyReaper
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby SlyReaper » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:27 pm UTC

Brutz wrote:Does "X times faster/stronger/etc. than Y" mean Y*X or Y*(X+1)? Whenever I break people's balls over what they meant by such expressions, the response is that what they actually meant was the less intuitive X*Y. WHY?! That's supposed to be reserved for expressions like "X times AS fast as Y".

You seem to be laboring under the delusion that language is supposed to make sense. If the distinction between the two options is important, then they'll use more precise language.
Image
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JustDoug
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby JustDoug » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:40 pm UTC

keithl wrote:I'm perched above a 6e24 kg ball of rock and iron hurtling at 30 km/s around a giant thermonuclear reactor. Which passes through a minefield of 300 billion other reactors while circling a gigantic black hole at 220km/s. No steering wheel or brakes. If for some reason I stop moving for even 1 millisecond, I would be surrounded by hard vacuum and boil in my skin, or be deeply embedded in molten rock. If one of those other reactors explodes nearby, or two neutron stars collide as distant as 1e17 km away, I get fried with gamma rays.


The difference in zipping along a highway in a box-like vehicle and your [our] situation is that you have absolutely no chance of exceeding the legal speed limit.

Semi-seriously, though: evolution did not prepare you for that sort of stuff. If it had, you've be able to live through an impact that would punch through the crust of a planet, bathe in liquid rock or liguid nitrogen and survive taking a dose of gamma radiation that would make Bruce Banner cringe, let alone be able to putter around without a perceptible atmosphere around you.


[Edit: exchange and for in to make Grammar happy]
Last edited by JustDoug on Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

project2051
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby project2051 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:03 pm UTC

This one and some of the comments reminds me of a Paula Poundstone routine.

That's why I never used to drive. I had a license for six years and I never drove 'cause I always thought that I would hurt somebody. And finally I decided, I don't care, I don't even like people that much. ... If a couple people have to die because I have to get to a Jack-in-the-Box, I'm sorry. ... Actually, having a car has made me appreciate walking, for one thing. I, uh-- The other day, I walked smack into a tree. I said, "Good thing I'm not drivin'." ... Probably saved a couple thou' right there.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby San Fran Sam » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:47 pm UTC

jeszjesz wrote:... a box powered by exploding fossils and rolling along on vulcanized tree sap. Enjoy.


I hate to break it to you but tyres have not been made out of tree rubber for at least several years. which is more than a handful.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby San Fran Sam » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:50 pm UTC

Milnoc wrote:But we are the box.

We've created the box.

We've created the tools and machines that allow us to surpass our natural limitations and build that box.

And it's all because we evolved into a higher level of intelligence and dexterity that allowed us to visualize the possibilities, and act upon them in a controlled and structured manner. Throw in a social infrastructure, and we can pool our resources together to create the separate components of that box, make it even better than what a single person could have accomplished on their own, and still make it easy enough for a single person to operate it within a reasonable amount of comfort, safety and ease.

I'm proud to be the box.

The box... is me.


Resistance is useless. You will be assimilated. Now hand me that 3/8" wrench.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby San Fran Sam » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:53 pm UTC

phillipsjk wrote:This is why cycling is safer than most motor transportation.


Said the man who never had a car door opened on him as he was pedaling down the street.

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San Fran Sam
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby San Fran Sam » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:00 pm UTC

pyronius wrote:hmm. odd timing.

got in a fender bender yesterday. my SUV vs. her tiny convertible. I won. unfortunately, playing the blame game means i didn't really win, i lost horribly because it'll almost certainly be deemed my fault. I'm still not sure where the hell she came from, one second she was at the exact opposite end of the street and i was beginning to turn, the next i was rapidly destroying her humorously small car with my humorously large one. If she wasn't going at least twice the speed limit then she's a god damn teleporter. No injuries.

weird thing is that on the way out earlier that day i felt like my car was desperately trying to pull itself into the car in front of me while we were at a light and had the break pressed down as far as it would go to prevent it. there wasn't any reason, it was just an odd bit of anxiety over something i had no reason to believe was actually happening.

only seconds before i was walking to my car thinking "yeah, you know what? I'm actually feeling pretty good about life for once. I have money, I'm planning some time out of town, maybe god is going to let up on my generally shitty luck for once!" NOPE! If he exists he's an ass.


Your car's name wouldn't happen to be Christine would it?

Farabor
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Farabor » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:27 am UTC

radtea wrote:
EpicanicusStrikes wrote:
Retsam wrote:This was my dad's approach to drivers ed: "Me letting you drive is like me handing you a gun". It's certainly true, but not much for establishing confidence.


I was told almost the exact same thing about puberty.


Accidents with guns cause death. Accidents with puberty cause life.


Remember, never drink and park. Accidents cause people!

askyle
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby askyle » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:16 am UTC

Why do I feel kind of icky seeing the words "evolution" and "miles" used so close together?

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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Widmerpool » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:26 am UTC

Just a Geologist wrote:
willaaaaaa wrote:Theoretically, this sign should improve traffic safety by appealing to our instinctive fears and desire for self-preservation. In practice, people would probably crash trying to read all 23 words on the sign as they pass by.

There are speed readers out there.

Noooo! Evolution didn't prepare us to read that fast!
El temps es breu; nemini parco.

ijuin
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby ijuin » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:16 am UTC

Marlayna wrote:Why would speed make a difference? Acceleration is the only factor that could have an effect on us, and our car doesn't accelerate very much for very long.

It's not the fall that kills you--it's the sudden stop at the end. :D

Likewise, it's not the speed that kills you--it's the vehicle coming to a stop in a distance of less than a meter upon colliding with a solid object, and your body colliding with the interior of your own vehicle when this happens, that kills you. That is why we have seat belts and air bags--to prevent you from being plastered over your own dashboard and smashing your face into the windshield (windscreen) as forcefully as you would if unrestrained.

mixh
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby mixh » Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:57 am UTC

askyle wrote:Why do I feel kind of icky seeing the words "evolution" and "miles" used so close together?


Would you prefer it in Planck units?

mfb
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby mfb » Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:12 pm UTC

"Fraction of the speed of light" is a bit impractical for cars.
I think the comment refers to some regions where... no I cannot find a political correct way to express my opinion about that. Hint: One of the few countries where "miles" are still a common unit for length.

Pingouin7
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Pingouin7 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:53 pm UTC

MotorToad wrote:I occasionally get this feeling when I'm driving. "Wow, here I am with 3500 lbs. of potential catastrophe." To get an idea of how much we take these things for granted, imagine someone texting with a .357 in his hand. Yeah. Less dangerous.

This = win
Dason wrote:
Kewangji wrote:I confess I am actually scared of peanuts, and tend to avoid them, given how lethal they are to some people.

I'm not. I do my part in the fight against peanuts by destroying them with my powerful teeth. Take that peanut! How does being digested feel!?

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Max™
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Max™ » Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:57 pm UTC

I once compared it to riding around on a fucking tiger, completely oblivious to the fact that tigers can maul the shit out of someone in the blink of an eye, while everyone else is also riding around blissfully ignorant of the tiger underneath them, occasionally texting and drinking coffee.
mu

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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby rmsgrey » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:03 pm UTC

Max™ wrote:I once compared it to riding around on a fucking tiger, completely oblivious to the fact that tigers can maul the shit out of someone in the blink of an eye, while everyone else is also riding around blissfully ignorant of the tiger underneath them, occasionally texting and drinking coffee.


The major difference with a tiger is that the tiger is smart enough to not collide with other tigers if you don't keep reminding it not to...

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Max™
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby Max™ » Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:18 pm UTC

Horny tigers, then.
mu

YTPrenewed
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby YTPrenewed » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:56 am UTC

I haven't posted here in a while, but I figured I'd like to ask people here why they're (generally) less critical of evolutionary reasoning in this context than in the context of gender issues...

quark-gluon-plasma
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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby quark-gluon-plasma » Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:14 am UTC

while ago, I spent some time on a boat, and there, you think about 'seconds from a collision' e.g. if another boat was 10M away, and you are moving toward each other at 5M/s you are 2 seconds from a collision. After I left, driving down the highway I had the thought - every vehicle coming the other way seems rather too close for that speed - so i did the calculation - cars pass at <15 milliseconds from collision!

I also recently saw a car [on the highway at 110km/h] that was 'overshooting' when it changed lanes - hitting the grass on the side of the road, bouncing back half way into the lane they came from, and then following a decaying oscillation between the edges of their new lane. All I could think (apart from wondering if there would be a huge crash 500m in front of me) was "your PID loop is under-damped".

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Re: 1075: "Warning"

Postby addams » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:50 am UTC

oh dear.
It's ok. I don't mine you being in my head. It's ok. Curl up, make yourself comfortable. Put down roots, if you like.

Us and our machines.
We have been made smarter by our machines.

This thread is very entertaining for me.
Us and our machines.
ARandomDude wrote:Relevant Cracked article:


"We are running way too fucking fast!" your primal brain screams. "How did this even happen?! ARE WE FALLING?" And then your rational brain glances in the rear view mirror and says "Speed up, man, this is a school zone: You have to do at least 20 mph."

Read more: http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-insane-th ... z2mICMe82z


Yes. We are in danger. Machines are dangerous.
To have no machines is more dangerous and less fun.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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