1117: "My Sky"

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1117: "My Sky"

Postby Quicksilver » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:00 am UTC

Image
Alt text:"According to my mom, my first word was (looking up at the sky) 'Wow!'"
ooooh, a sequel to earlier this week? I like cloud storage jokes, my work refuses to use cloud because they think it will take power away from our server guy. Doesn't look like he has much control here.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby VectorZero » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:03 am UTC

A much more environmentally friendly method of cloud storage, although the humidity can cause problems.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby rhomboidal » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:09 am UTC

He's a cumulus accumulator.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby nowhereman » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:20 am UTC

I cannot remember a time I looked up at the night sky and wasn't completely captivated by the expanse of stars. Sometimes I am depressed by the fact that dust blocks even more of that, but given that I can barely comprehend what I already see, I suppose I'm good. Living in the rurals does have some great perks.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby wbeaty » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:39 am UTC

In very late afternoon, stand outdoors and stare straight upwards into the deepest blue. Now spin around fast while still looking up. If you don't get dizzy and crash into stuff, in the exact center of your vision you'll notice a dim yellow hourglass shape which doesn't rotate. "Haidinger's brush." It happens because sky light is partly polarized. Well, the part of the sky away from the sun and away from the anti-solar point is polarized. A wide band of pol. light, with the sun marking the axis.

On a clear night, walk around until you can put a nearby building or tree very close to a bright star in the eastern sky. Now sit or lie on the ground, and move yourself until that star is just barely covered by the top corner of the building or the top of the tree. Wait a moment. The star will reappear. Move to cover it again. It reappears. It's moving. In realtime! The location of your eye is tracking the shadow of that building or tree; the slow-moving shadow being cast by light from that one star.

If you really think about it, there is no sky up there. "Sky" is an ancient concept: a solid blue-colored bowl placed over the flat Earth. Really the only thing up there is the black of space, with a uniform cloud of sunlit air in front of it. You're not looking at blue-colored "sky," you 're looking at gascloud plus Tyndall.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Linux0s » Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:05 am UTC

What's this? Electrical storm? My clouds have turned on me!
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby metalocalypse » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:14 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:A much more environmentally friendly method of cloud storage, although the humidity can cause problems.

Not to mention rain. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlMm39xr0
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Djehutynakht » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:20 am UTC

I like this idea. Continuation is interesting.

I want to be deeper than that, but it's too late at night.

It must be a big job, looking over all of those clouds. So many airplanes and birds and heavy winds.... He will have his hands full.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby gormster » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:29 am UTC

I have to admit, I (somehow) didn't see that punchline coming. Brilliant.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby da Doctah » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:49 am UTC

Quicksilver wrote:Alt text:"According to my mom, my first word was (looking up at the sky) 'Wow!'"


Mine, I'm told, was "golly", in response to having my throat tickled in the area where my Adam's apple would eventually be.

Actually, they tell me it was "gollygollygollygollygolly".

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby lassehp » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:10 am UTC

In that business, the sky is the limit, literally.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Quicksilver » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:18 am UTC

lassehp wrote:In that business, the sky is the limit, literally.
Or the starting point.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby ijuin » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:50 am UTC

With regard to computer cloud storage, my issue with it is that if the host servers are taken down, you lose your files, perhaps permanently. Note what happened when Megaupload was shut down for encouraging piracy--anybody who had legitimate non-piracy stuff on there lost access to their data and were give no chance to recover it. Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud--there needs to be a backup in case your cloud access ever fails.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby nolaviz » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:02 am UTC

"Mom". "Wow". Upside-down man. Anyone else see what I see?

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby tugs » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:46 am UTC

Maybe your first word was actually "Mom" but your mother misheard if because you were standing on your head.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby peewee_RotA » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:23 am UTC

After beating Skyward Sword, he picked up a copy of Skyrim. This was all to tide him over waiting for Skyfall to be released. Plus he had already bought all of the new skylanders. But anyway, if he has any free time he'll be on skype.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby AvatarIII » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:17 am UTC

nolaviz wrote:"Mom". "Wow". Upside-down man. Anyone else see what I see?


surely his first word would have been ¡woW though.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby J Thomas » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:30 am UTC

ijuin wrote:With regard to computer cloud storage, my issue with it is that if the host servers are taken down, you lose your files, perhaps permanently. Note what happened when Megaupload was shut down for encouraging piracy--anybody who had legitimate non-piracy stuff on there lost access to their data and were give no chance to recover it. Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud--there needs to be a backup in case your cloud access ever fails.


Yes. You will depend on professionals to do lots of things that you used to do yourself. In the extreme case, they run the software, and your tablet is basicly a terminal. Like with a mainframe.

It seems almost inevitable that in the middle run one company will outcompete the rest and get most of the business. Like operating systems used to be. "What? You sent me a document that wasn't Word? It wasn't Word 5.2? What's wrong with you?" They will increasingly choose the software you can use. A few things will be standard, and you can choose from a bewildering variety of extensions that anybody can make, but if you share data with somebody else and they need your extensions, that's rude. The whole industry gets commodified, more than it already is. Cheaper, too, nobody has to worry about any of the computer issues they worry about now because it's all the supplier's problem. Software updates come at the supplier's schedule. Hardware updates too except you can get customized terminals. And prices? You pay for what you use, and not monopolistic prices exactly, just the winning company will be exceptionally rich, and they will be able to look at anybody's data (but they won't because what do you have that's worth looking at, and if they sell people access to competitors' data who would trust them, and what do they care themselves what your company is doing? Not like they play the stock market). They could have a lot of control over what everybody has access to, but why would they care? Not like the politicians would try to regulate them....

I don't like it but I don't see anything to do about it. Maybe for technical reasons I don't understand it will fizzle.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby dangerfan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:21 pm UTC

According to my mom, my first words were "Bob Barker".

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby marsman57 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:46 pm UTC

Two cloud comics in one week? What?

At least this one had a decent punchline.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby richP » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:48 pm UTC

Djehutynakht wrote:I like this idea. Continuation is interesting.

I want to be deeper than that, but it's too late at night.

It must be a big job, looking over all of those clouds. So many airplanes and birds and heavy winds.... He will have his hands full.


Nah, he's only concerned with the clouds themselves. If a plane flies through one, it's "self-healing" (the cloud reforms over time). High winds aloft are just "dynamic reallocation of cloud resources". Probably some more buzzword-compliant lingo out there too...

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:53 pm UTC

Bob Ross approves.

"Let's put a happy little cloud..."
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby TheSavageNorwegian » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:29 pm UTC

It isn't the same color as anything!

...except my beret.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby niky » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:45 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
ijuin wrote:With regard to computer cloud storage, my issue with it is that if the host servers are taken down, you lose your files, perhaps permanently. Note what happened when Megaupload was shut down for encouraging piracy--anybody who had legitimate non-piracy stuff on there lost access to their data and were give no chance to recover it. Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud--there needs to be a backup in case your cloud access ever fails.


Yes. You will depend on professionals to do lots of things that you used to do yourself. In the extreme case, they run the software, and your tablet is basicly a terminal. Like with a mainframe.

It seems almost inevitable that in the middle run one company will outcompete the rest and get most of the business. Like operating systems used to be. "What? You sent me a document that wasn't Word? It wasn't Word 5.2? What's wrong with you?" They will increasingly choose the software you can use. A few things will be standard, and you can choose from a bewildering variety of extensions that anybody can make, but if you share data with somebody else and they need your extensions, that's rude. The whole industry gets commodified, more than it already is. Cheaper, too, nobody has to worry about any of the computer issues they worry about now because it's all the supplier's problem. Software updates come at the supplier's schedule. Hardware updates too except you can get customized terminals. And prices? You pay for what you use, and not monopolistic prices exactly, just the winning company will be exceptionally rich, and they will be able to look at anybody's data (but they won't because what do you have that's worth looking at, and if they sell people access to competitors' data who would trust them, and what do they care themselves what your company is doing? Not like they play the stock market). They could have a lot of control over what everybody has access to, but why would they care? Not like the politicians would try to regulate them....

I don't like it but I don't see anything to do about it. Maybe for technical reasons I don't understand it will fizzle.


My first editorial job was on WordStar.

My first typesetting job was on GEM.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby nlitchfield » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:54 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud


For stuff you care about the words "in the cloud" in that sentence are redundant. Who runs the infrastructure is irrelevant to the problem of only having one copy.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby NiteClerk » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:59 pm UTC

I've found the most optimal cloud storage is to condense the cloud down to water. I can then store the water in different forms ranging from tanks of hydrogen and oxygen to ice cubes.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby eran_rathan » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:43 pm UTC

niky wrote:My first editorial job was on WordStar.

My first typesetting job was on GEM.

Eventually, even my .CDRs will become obsolete files that I can never, ever open anymore.


We have records at my office ranging from punchcards to magnetic tape for various equipment (like our Olivetti) going back sixty years that is completely useless, due to the fact that the equipment that read them is now either defunct, obsolete, or non-functional. Yet we still keep them.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby J Thomas » Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:33 pm UTC

eran_rathan wrote:
niky wrote:My first editorial job was on WordStar.

My first typesetting job was on GEM.

Eventually, even my .CDRs will become obsolete files that I can never, ever open anymore.


We have records at my office ranging from punchcards to magnetic tape for various equipment (like our Olivetti) going back sixty years that is completely useless, due to the fact that the equipment that read them is now either defunct, obsolete, or non-functional. Yet we still keep them.


Sure. When you pay a monthly fee for that storage it's more likely somebody will decide to toss it.

Employees assigned to maintain old records = status for their bosses. (If Parkinson is right.)
Fees to an outside organization for data nobody ever looks at = pure overhead.

Future historians will be sad.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Rotherian » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:15 pm UTC

nlitchfield wrote:
ijuin wrote:Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud


For stuff you care about the words "in the cloud" in that sentence are redundant. Who runs the infrastructure is irrelevant to the problem of only having one copy.



Taking off my pedantic hat for a while, I'll assume that by one copy you mean a single instance of that file (regardless whether it happens to be the original file or a retained copy of an original file).
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby GojuSuzi » Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:32 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:
eran_rathan wrote:We have records at my office ranging from punchcards to magnetic tape for various equipment (like our Olivetti) going back sixty years that is completely useless, due to the fact that the equipment that read them is now either defunct, obsolete, or non-functional. Yet we still keep them.


Sure. When you pay a monthly fee for that storage it's more likely somebody will decide to toss it.

Employees assigned to maintain old records = status for their bosses. (If Parkinson is right.)
Fees to an outside organization for data nobody ever looks at = pure overhead.

Future historians will be sad.


Actually, it's probably down to that storage cost that they probably *won't* chuck it.

Old data is potentially protected data. In order to destroy it, they'd need to firstly confirm that they're allowed to destroy it (meaning time, money, and effort expended on sourcing equipment to read it, have someone go over it, all that fun stuff), then destroy it in a secure manner (time and potential costs) and possibly re-format any un-destroy-able data to modern files or retain the storage for those which can't be destroyed. All of which has the potential to drain much more from the yearly budget than paying a fixed amount for storing them securely, maybe while wishing for a flood/fire/other "act of god" to take them all off their hands.

It's like how many people nowadays, scared of throwing away their old hard drives and unsure of how to properly dismember them so that they can't be restored, will hoard them rather than take the risk. Except with added threat of angry Data Commissioners coming a-knocking if you bum it up.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Oktalist » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:10 am UTC

What's the difference? "Is copy of" is commutative.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:01 am UTC

GojuSuzi wrote:
J Thomas wrote:
eran_rathan wrote:We have records at my office ranging from punchcards to magnetic tape for various equipment (like our Olivetti) going back sixty years that is completely useless, due to the fact that the equipment that read them is now either defunct, obsolete, or non-functional. Yet we still keep them.


Sure. When you pay a monthly fee for that storage it's more likely somebody will decide to toss it.

Employees assigned to maintain old records = status for their bosses. (If Parkinson is right.)
Fees to an outside organization for data nobody ever looks at = pure overhead.

Future historians will be sad.


Actually, it's probably down to that storage cost that they probably *won't* chuck it.

Old data is potentially protected data. In order to destroy it, they'd need to firstly confirm that they're allowed to destroy it (meaning time, money, and effort expended on sourcing equipment to read it, have someone go over it, all that fun stuff), then destroy it in a secure manner (time and potential costs) and possibly re-format any un-destroy-able data to modern files or retain the storage for those which can't be destroyed. All of which has the potential to drain much more from the yearly budget than paying a fixed amount for storing them securely, maybe while wishing for a flood/fire/other "act of god" to take them all off their hands.

It's like how many people nowadays, scared of throwing away their old hard drives and unsure of how to properly dismember them so that they can't be restored, will hoard them rather than take the risk. Except with added threat of angry Data Commissioners coming a-knocking if you bum it up.


I see! That makes a disturbing kind of sense.

Robert Townsend suggested a long time ago that executives should -- every year -- throw away all but perhaps half a file drawer of old data. He reasoned that you won't actually use it, and if you think you need it you won't find it in time. If something like an antitrust investigation comes up, people rooting through your old emails etc will find evidence that looks incriminating whether you did anything or not.

But of course he was giving advice to people who didn't have to ask permission to destroy their old data....
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby VectorZero » Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:23 am UTC

Oktalist wrote:What's the difference? "Is copy of" is commutative.
I suspect he was referring to the meaning of 'copy' as in "This is a Picasso original, whereas that is my only copy."
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby ijuin » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:41 am UTC

nlitchfield wrote:
ijuin wrote:Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud


For stuff you care about the words "in the cloud" in that sentence are redundant. Who runs the infrastructure is irrelevant to the problem of only having one copy.

Allow me to rephrase. What I meant should be more along the lines of "Thus, you should never lack a copy that you physically control without being beholden to a middleman". What happens if your internet connection is cut off for hours, days, or longer (and the service provider can't be bothered to reconnect you)?

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Max™ » Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:00 am UTC

ijuin wrote:What happens if your internet connection is cut off for hours, days, or longer (and the service provider can't be bothered to reconnect you)?

In that situation you have bigger problems, like trying to figure out how you wound up in the middle of the Amazon rain forest.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Oktalist » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:37 am UTC

VectorZero wrote:
Oktalist wrote:What's the difference? "Is copy of" is commutative.
I suspect he was referring to the meaning of 'copy' as in "This is a Picasso original, whereas that is my only copy."
Computer files don't work like that. :P
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:12 pm UTC

ijuin wrote:
nlitchfield wrote:
ijuin wrote:Thus, you should never keep your only copy of a file in the cloud


For stuff you care about the words "in the cloud" in that sentence are redundant. Who runs the infrastructure is irrelevant to the problem of only having one copy.

Allow me to rephrase. What I meant should be more along the lines of "Thus, you should never lack a copy that you physically control without being beholden to a middleman". What happens if your internet connection is cut off for hours, days, or longer (and the service provider can't be bothered to reconnect you)?


Similarly, you should always have a year's supply of food hidden on your own property, and your own generator. What if your power is cut off for days or longer?

I guess if your power is out and your ISP ignores you, you could perhaps pick up your terminal and drive to someplace that has power, and sign up with a new ISP, and persuade whoever has your data to give it to you through your new ISP. And if you lose your terminal in the flood you could just quick buy a new one -- you haven't exactly lost much. And if you don't completely trust your cloud supplier you can pay to mirror your data on a competitor.

It's all potentially workable. But I think we should call the things you type on "terminals". Not unlikely after awhile when you sign your cloud contract they'll send you one for free.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Oktalist » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:37 pm UTC

It seems a bit wasteful/inefficient. Like having to walk to the library every time you want to write something in your diary.

The word "cloud" suggests to me decentralization, which is the opposite of what the cloud actually is.
philip1201 wrote:Not everything which maps countable infinities onto finite areas is a Lovecraft reference.

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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby J Thomas » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:20 pm UTC

Oktalist wrote:It seems a bit wasteful/inefficient. Like having to walk to the library every time you want to write something in your diary.


The waste is relative. As the internet gets faster, it doesn't seem like so much of an issue. Like taking a ton of metal with you for a quick trip to the library, if it was horses with a 1-ton wagon it would be absurd but even at $4/gallon for gas, we ignore the cost if it saves 10 minutes.

The word "cloud" suggests to me decentralization, which is the opposite of what the cloud actually is.


It could turn out that way in theory. You could use widgets from a thousand sources to collect information from economic sources all over the world. Search hundreds of government databases, each with their own protocols. Company annual reports. Put it together in a distributed simulation model that would take weeks to run on your own hardware, and let various other computers do it for you in minutes. Your own terminal is just what you use to see what links you want to set up and to see the results.

But in practice, if you want to share information and processing among competing companies, when it goes wrong won't they each say it was one of the others who violated standards and caused the errors? And they'll be way slower communicating with each other than for their own internal communications. When you pay one of them to do the whole thing, you'll know who to blame for the failures.

So it turns into a business model where instead of buying a new computer every few years because you can't keep up otherwise, you will rent as much computing power as you want. Maybe you'll be able to rent it by the second. All your terminal needs to have is a good screen, and one or more good input devices, and an internet connection, and possibly a printer/scanner. And I'm sure you could rent that part too. Think of all that computing power you bought that's wasted while you don't use it. If you rent you can avoid that waste. Of course, that means you don't own anything much. If your datalord raises the rent you can switch to another one, just sideload all your stuff to your new place and figure out how to settle in, less trouble than moving to a new apartment with a new landlord in a new city.

Perhaps you could rent out your own computer while you don't use it? If you have a fast enough connection etc, somebody might pay you a little for that. Whenever they're overloaded, they can pipe tasks to you and pay you a little something for it. If they want to. That would be kind of cloudy.
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Re: 1117: "My Sky"

Postby Oktalist » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:16 pm UTC

J Thomas wrote:Maybe you'll be able to rent it by the second.

Or by the instruction.

So much for managed languages. ;)
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