1133: "Up Goer Five"

This forum is for the individual discussion thread that goes with each new comic.

Moderators: Moderators General, Prelates, Magistrates

User avatar
SW15243
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:56 am UTC
Location: The Frozen White North
Contact:

1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby SW15243 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:21 am UTC

Image

Title text: "Another thing that is a bad problem is if you're flying toward space and the parts start to fall off your space car in the wrong order. If that happens, it means you won't go to space today, or maybe ever."

I'm more curious where he got the list of the thousand most-used words...

User avatar
rhomboidal
Posts: 751
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:25 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby rhomboidal » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:22 am UTC

Good cool stuff like much.

User avatar
willpellmn
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:05 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby willpellmn » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:24 am UTC

I'm all for cutting back on the jargon in science, but methinks this is going a liiiitle too far.....

User avatar
Quicksilver
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:21 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Quicksilver » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:32 am UTC

Probably the work of Black Hat Guy.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 3620
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:34 am UTC

Methinks someone's been reading too much Simple Wikipedia again.

Methinks the word "methinks" is probably neither in that list nor on Simple Wikipedia.

Methinks neither is "nor".
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

Gye
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:01 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Gye » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:37 am UTC

SW15243 wrote:I'm more curious where he got the list of the thousand most-used words...

My first thought was the Basic English wordlist on Simple English Wikipedia, but it doesn't quite fit.

Joost
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:56 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Joost » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:46 am UTC

Was Apollo 5 manned? I thought they started doing that later on :o I mean, it wasn't till 11 that they landed on the Moon. Or is that not the other world this comic speaks of?

User avatar
Red Hal
Magically Delicious
Posts: 1445
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:42 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Red Hal » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:52 am UTC

Saturn isn't on the list.
Lost Greatest Silent Baby X Y Z. "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..."

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:04 am UTC

I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

CFG9000
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:11 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby CFG9000 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:13 am UTC

"This end should point toward the ground if you want to go to space. If it starts pointing toward space you are having a bad problem and you will not go to space today."


As an avid Kerbal Space Program player, this is all too relevant and absolutely slayed me :mrgreen:

dtilque
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:53 am UTC
Location: Nogero

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby dtilque » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:26 am UTC

Joost wrote:Was Apollo 5 manned? I thought they started doing that later on :o I mean, it wasn't till 11 that they landed on the Moon. Or is that not the other world this comic speaks of?

Up Goer 5 = Saturn 5

But yeah, it probably should be Up Goer 11.

ETA: I suppose it's refering to the entire Apollo program, from 8 through 17, so he couldn't use the number of an specific mission.
Last edited by dtilque on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:31 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Whenever visually representing the universe, it's important to include a picture of Saturn!
-- Tom the Dancing Bug

User avatar
dudiobugtron
Posts: 1098
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:14 am UTC
Location: The Outlier

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby dudiobugtron » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:30 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

I imagine that "go" is on the list, but he judged it was ok to use different word endings as long as people who only had a 1000-word vocab could still understand them.
Same with "explain" vs "explained", breathe/breathing, human/humans (cf: humanity) etc...
Image

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:35 am UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

I imagine that "go" is on the list, but he judged it was ok to use different word endings as long as people who only had a 1000-word vocab could still understand them.
Same with "explain" vs "explained", breathe/breathing, human/humans (cf: humanity) etc...


You're probably right.

Vroomfundel
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:36 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Vroomfundel » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:37 am UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

I imagine that "go" is on the list, but he judged it was ok to use different word endings as long as people who only had a 1000-word vocab could still understand them.
Same with "explain" vs "explained", breathe/breathing, human/humans (cf: humanity) etc...


Well, then it's top 1000 roots, strictly speaking, not words
lexicum.net - my vocabulary learning platform

Xavios
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:36 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Xavios » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:42 am UTC

I think this is my new favourite comic. NASA and the scientific community at large should use Simple English for press releases. It would mean journalists would stop misinterpreting things and it would be absolutely hilarious.

PsiSquared
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:02 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby PsiSquared » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:51 am UTC

Another rare gem. Definitely one of my favorites on XKCD.

Oh, and I was quite surprised to discover that the word "moon" isn't in the top thousand words, while "computer" is.

Sambo
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:53 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Sambo » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:54 am UTC

Aren't those RCS Thrusters from Kerbal Space Program?

pareidolon
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:59 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby pareidolon » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:57 am UTC

AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

"Sun" is #217 on the list I found here: http://www.rupert.id.au/resources/1000-words.php
If you're talking about hydrogen, I guess he figured more people would relate to the H-bomb (at least I think that's what "big sky bag" is talking about) than to the composition of the sun.
Although, now that I check, "thousand" is on the list, and so is "moon." But (to the poster two above me) "computer" is not. Maybe his list was compiled with a different methodology, er, way of making things.

Couchman
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:58 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Couchman » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:59 am UTC

When can I get the poster? :D

tups
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:37 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby tups » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:02 am UTC

pareidolon wrote:If you're talking about hydrogen, I guess he figured more people would relate to the H-bomb (at least I think that's what "big sky bag" is talking about) than to the composition of the sun.


"Big sky bag" would be zeppelin, referring to the fire on/of the Hindenburg in 1937. Unfortunately, "zeppelin" isn't in the list of the ten hundred most-used words. Unfortunately.

Rakshasa
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:12 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Rakshasa » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:03 am UTC

Sambo wrote:Aren't those RCS Thrusters from Kerbal Space Program?

Kerbal Space Program blueprints was the exact same thing I was thinking too, lol.

User avatar
Sebastiaan
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:02 am UTC
Location: Leiden, the Netherlands

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Sebastiaan » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:09 am UTC

pareidolon wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

"Sun" is #217 on the list I found here: http://www.rupert.id.au/resources/1000-words.php
If you're talking about hydrogen, I guess he figured more people would relate to the H-bomb (at least I think that's what "big sky bag" is talking about) than to the composition of the sun.
Although, now that I check, "thousand" is on the list, and so is "moon." But (to the poster two above me) "computer" is not. Maybe his list was compiled with a different methodology, er, way of making things.


The thing that matters most for such a list might not be the methodology, per se, but the data it is used on. If you use literature or other 'professionally' written sources, the results will differ from, per example, those generated with speech transcriptions. In modern day language use, I would image 'computer', a thing that most people use most days for most of the day, being higher up on the list than 'moon', a thing most people might glance up to once or twice a week, if that.

MattJL
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:56 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby MattJL » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:10 am UTC

(Lurker for about four-odd months now, also Saturn/Apollo nut. As you might assume, I had to comment when I saw this).

This... this is absolutely fantastic. I want this as a poster.

ijuin
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:02 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby ijuin » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:19 am UTC

Xavios wrote:I think this is my new favourite comic. NASA and the scientific community at large should use Simple English for press releases. It would mean journalists would stop misinterpreting things and it would be absolutely hilarious.

Jargon is used because jargon words have only one meaning when properly used, while "simple" words have multiple interpretations with no guarantee that the audience will use the same interpretation as the speaker. For example, the "big sky bag" reference would require that the audience understand that lighter-than-air craft are being referred to, which may be less likely than expecting them to know the word "balloon". Thus, an attempt to use "simpler" words can lead to using terms so vague that the intended meaning is easily lost.

User avatar
BAReFOOt
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:48 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby BAReFOOt » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:24 am UTC

Soooo.... we've already ended up in the Idiocracy?

I see it in my head movies. But this head movie makes my eyes rain...

Oh, and: DURK URR DURRR!

User avatar
BAReFOOt
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:48 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby BAReFOOt » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:51 am UTC

willpellmn wrote:I'm all for cutting back on the jargon in science, but methinks this is going a liiiitle too far.....


I’m for cutting back on pointless jargon, that only serves to elevate the big-headed (yet so incredibly insecure) speaker over others. Which is mostly: Foreign words in dead languages, that there is a perfectly good normal word for. I recently found the king of all examples for that behavior: The word “Terminus”, when used in German sentences, is a technical/jargon term for the word “technical/jargon term”!!
But you find lots of examples of that behavior on Wikipedia. Especially the medicine, biology and grammar sections, which immediately start making sense, if you use a word-replacement script to replace the pointless jargon by normal words. But is incomprehensible otherwise.

That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a big crime, to pointlessly dumb down things. Where “pointlessly” especially means cases of lazy dumb people yelling to get everything pre-chewed so they don’t have to think. (Aka. Apple clients, and what Gnome, KDE, MS, and Mozilla think are their users.)
Because if you dumb things down, you 1. always harm the upper part of the bell curve of user intelligence. Those who are usually too quiet. (Thanks Dunning-Kruger effect, you’re a real help here…!)
And 2. because now the interface requires less intelligence (but takes forever to get shit done), people just switch their brains down too.
Which means, the whole bell curve shifts downwards. And you again have an even dumber and even louder lower end, complaining again.
To which the companies respond with further dumbing down again. Ending up in a vicious cycle of idiocy that you can see in their software.

To see how far this went, look at Microsoft, “bragging” that Windows 8 can be used by a 3-year old. You know how dumb that is? A grown chimpanzee has the intelligence of a 4-year old! That means that the Windows 8 UI… being not much different in difficulty to a Apple or Android UI btw.… literally expects you to be dumber than a chimpanzee!!
We’re far past MS Clippy here. We’re past (Google/Apple) auto-correct overriding you because it thinks it is smarter than you. We’re deep in Idiocracy territory.

That is how far past the point of maximum simplicity… into the land of downright crippling and forcing users to be idiots… we have come.

And it shall end NOW. For I am designing a graphical shell ONLY for intelligent people. To allow superior efficiency and power. And if you can’t use it: Boo hoo, take your whole genetic line and die out in a corner! ;)

User avatar
Linux0s
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:34 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Linux0s » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:54 am UTC

Explain the entire space mission like this and you could publish a Dick & Jane book.
If the male mind truly were a machine it would consist of a shaft and a bushing.

rgove
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:44 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby rgove » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:01 am UTC

A grown chimpanzee has the intelligence of a 4-year old!

If you genuinely believe that, it's been a long time since you interacted with any 4-year-olds.

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:12 am UTC

pareidolon wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.

"Sun" is #217 on the list I found here: http://www.rupert.id.au/resources/1000-words.php
If you're talking about hydrogen, I guess he figured more people would relate to the H-bomb (at least I think that's what "big sky bag" is talking about) than to the composition of the sun.
Although, now that I check, "thousand" is on the list, and so is "moon." But (to the poster two above me) "computer" is not. Maybe his list was compiled with a different methodology, er, way of making things.


I was getting at the fact that Apollo is a sun god, but god isn't on that list so it wouldn't have been an alternative anyway.

User avatar
snowyowl
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:36 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby snowyowl » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:18 am UTC

BAReFOOt wrote:And it shall end NOW. For I am designing a graphical shell ONLY for intelligent people. To allow superior efficiency and power. And if you can’t use it: Boo hoo, take your whole genetic line and die out in a corner! ;)


Pfeh. Intelligent people have no need for graphics, they do everything through the command line.
The preceding comment is an automated response.

conorjh
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:56 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby conorjh » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:26 am UTC

I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.


But Saturn isn't "sun god", "fun god" would be closer, or "free from the man god", but yes.

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:35 am UTC

conorjh wrote:
I'm surprised "goer" is on the top 1000 words but "sun" and "god" aren't. I say sun and god all the time, but never say goer.


But Saturn isn't "sun god", "fun god" would be closer, or "free from the man god", but yes.


Yeah I was working on the assumption that it was Apollo 5 at the time.

gem_t
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:31 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby gem_t » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:37 am UTC

It is certainly a clever idea, almost everything we expect of Randal. At least we now know what he was really doing while knocking out the political stuff.
It is easy to go looking for more descriptive words in the list, but I have to ask about the title "Up Goer"...
The words Planet, Six, Ring, Huge are all on that list,
though the original reference was probably the God of the skies, Saturn.
Two and Element are in the list, as is eight!
I guess the question is whether you expect general knowledge greater than vocabulary?
Last edited by gem_t on Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:39 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

rysuei
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:30 am UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby rysuei » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:44 am UTC

Stepping away from the top-words thread...

I've been ranting for a long time that if they could just eliminate what I think is the most expensive part of space launches, we'd be able to send materials up much more frequently. Extra-terrestrial construction could be taken on at a much faster pace, ramping up all things dependent on this foundation. The whole booster rocket thing, iirc, is mostly because of the thrust required to escape gravity, which as it happens is strongest at the surface.

So... here's my idea. Just like aircraft carriers float on water and allow planes to take-off and land. If we could design and build a similar carrier (picture "airship") leveraging super-heated helium and various security measures to protect it from crashing... to allow it to float as high on the atmosphere as physically possible, this would leverage buoyancy to eliminate the need to escape as much gravity. Then the ship could use something like a railgun to assist a shuttle to take-off into space. Landing the shuttle would probably be more complicated, but I imagine it would involve the same cables employed on the aircraft carriers. Additionally with the landing site being high in the upper atmosphere, the shuttle may not have built up as much speed, so may not require as much effort to land safely.

Please discuss. I would love to see the impracticalities of this idea ironed out with practical solutions.

RogueCynic
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:23 pm UTC

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby RogueCynic » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:45 am UTC

I feel embarrassed. This comic taught me they use that gas that makes your voice funny to take up room when the other gases are used up.
I am Lord Titanius Englesmith, Fancyman of Cornwood.
See 1 Kings 7:23 for pi.
If you put a prune in a juicer, what would you get?

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:58 am UTC

gem_t wrote:It is certainly a clever idea, almost everything we expect of Randal. At least we now know what he was really doing while knocking out the political stuff.
It is easy to go looking for more descriptive words in the list, but I have to ask about the title "Up Goer"...
The words Planet, Six, Ring, Huge are all on that list,
though the original reference was probably the God of the skies, Saturn.
Two and Element are in the list, as is eight!
I guess the question is whether you expect general knowledge greater than vocabulary?


one - ten are all on the list, I checked. but not eleven

User avatar
ryzvonusef (1151717)
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:16 pm UTC
Location: Pakistan

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby ryzvonusef (1151717) » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:00 pm UTC

Courtesy of Reddit, this image goes the full other way w.r.t. technical language:

Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
jonadab
Posts: 79
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 11:31 am UTC
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby jonadab » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm UTC

Oh, and I was quite surprised to discover that the word "moon" isn't in the top thousand words, while "computer" is.


"Computer" only surprised me until I thought about it for a minute (almost all of the English-speaking world is developed to the point of having multiple computes per household; these days, I bet "Facebook" would be in the top thousand words if proper nouns weren't categorically excluded), but the comic also uses a number of other terms that I surely would not have guessed would be as common as "moon". Setting aside "US" as a proper noun (but then why couldn't he say Saturn V instead of being gratuitously confusing?) and the disclaimer in the corner, words that got my attention in this regard include "escaping", "explained", "direction", "problem", "landing", "ring", "breathe", "filling", "power", and "point".

Really? All those words are more common than "moon"? I bet some of them didn't used to be.

User avatar
Arancaytar
Posts: 1642
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:54 am UTC
Location: 52.44°N, 13.55°E
Contact:

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby Arancaytar » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:20 pm UTC

Also if stuff breaks off your space car when you go up, and it hits other stuff, your space car might get too hot when you come back down and that would be a very bad problem. Then you might not go to space again.
"You cannot dual-wield the sharks. One is enough." -Our DM.
Image

User avatar
AvatarIII
Posts: 2098
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:28 pm UTC
Location: W.Sussex, UK

Re: 1133: "Up Goer Five"

Postby AvatarIII » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:42 pm UTC

ryzvonusef (1151717) wrote:Courtesy of Reddit, this image goes the full other way w.r.t. technical language:

Spoiler:
Image
Liters... what an ugly spelling, litres is much nicer.


Return to “Individual XKCD Comic Threads”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: orthogon, Soupspoon and 58 guests