1134: "Logic Boat"

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abkfenris
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Step 1: Take the wolf across
Step 2: Take the goat across
Step 3: When it's time the goat turns into you-and-wolf-chow. Cabbage is a sucky green to go with goat, but a fattened up goat never hurt anyone's bellies.
Step 4 (Optional): Consume many liters of beer and a kilogram of ice cream and spend the night running around on the top of a dam in the middle of a country where you don't speak the language. Bonus points if you are lactose intolerant.

Note: some of these steps I may have encountered in real life

Klear
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

I would just ditch the ninja and the pirate and ride away into the sunset on the dinosaur... It depends on what species it is, though.

BTW, hi Tormuse! I think this is the first time I met someone I know outside the forum where I first met them... =)

el matematico
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

The wolf in panel 4 reminded me of Jurassic Bark.
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phlip
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

cellocgw wrote:Next you'll tell us the solution to the U-2 + bridge crossing problem.

I'm not too familiar with that one, but I hope the solution involves collapsing the bridge while Bono is standing on it.

Code: Select all

`enum ಠ_ಠ {°□°╰=1, °Д°╰, ಠ益ಠ╰};void ┻━┻︵​╰(ಠ_ಠ ⚠) {exit((int)⚠);}`
[he/him/his]

Nationless
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Leyaena wrote:Surprised the real solution hasn't been posted yet...

1: take goat across
2: return alone
3: take cabbage across
4: return with goat
5: take wolf across
6: return alone
7: take goat across

Alright, well this is a logic boat.

Would you, logically speaking, place yourself on a boat on open water alone with a wolf?

That doesn't sound very logical to me.

</Spock>

Snooj
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

I'm not sure I want to be part of a world where no one has yet challenged the premise that keeping a goat and cabbage is better than keeping a wolf.

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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

This is my favourite xkcd for a long time, and I'm not even sure why. I can't stop giggling.

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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

As I understand it, ninjas are like mercenaries, they are paid to be on specific missions to do certain things. So you could just ask the ninja nicely, or pay him, not to kill you or the pirate.

You could ride the dinosaur across and pay the ninja and pirate not to kill each other while in the boat.

The dinosaur can't see the ninja but can smell or hear the ninja so it might attack anyway.

savage
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Djehutynakht wrote:Why would you not have a wolf?

This, right here.

Wolves are awesome.
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NebulousRikulau
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Among other reasons, you have a wolf to protect your cabbage from the goat belonging to the guy coming up behind you with a goat, a cabbage, and a wolf.

alvinhochun
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Great, I think this comic has something to do with a newly-introduced Android 4.2 API:

Code: Select all

`UserManager.isUserAGoat()`

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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Long time reader (since the double digit comics) and now after 1134 comics, finally, my first GOOMHR moment. I hadn't heard this puzzle brought up in ages, but just yesterday, my car broke down and we we talking about logistics of getting everyone home with the tow truck, the spare car at home, the car seat, etc. etc. after about the third suggestion that was made on how it could be done, I quipped "OR, first we could take the goat" and got a laugh. AND THEN THIS COMIC.

Someguy945
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

I just noticed that Randall seems to have updated the "Comics I Enjoy" list that appears underneath the comic strip.

I mean, I could be mistaken, but I feel like it used to have 5 or 6 comics and now it has 9.

paulrowe
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

My first take on this was influenced by a local event that's happening this weekend. Due to the growing losses of livestock to coyotes, a local gun shop advertised a coyote hunt. When controversy broke out, the event was canceled, but another gun shop stepped up to the plate and offered its own coyote hunt. The prize to the participant who brought down the most coyotes: a Browning shotgun and two AR15's. Controversy broke out again, but the gun shop didn't step down, saying that several landowners had asked the participants to hunt their lands. A friend of mine drove by the gun shop last weekend and there were some twenty people protesting the hunt and two people with a little cardboard sign outside the shop supporting it.

KOAT news
KRQE news
Reuters USA

This is not intended to stir up strife, though I know that it likely will. This was just the first thing that came to mind when I read, "Why did you have a wolf?"

Velexia
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

JustDoug wrote:You've overlooked one little thing. What happens when you're alone in the boat with the Ninja?

She kills yew.

Tormuse wrote:...or I suppose the pirate could come back for you, but you would have to depend on them coming to the correct decision without you; if they do it wrong and the ninja comes back for you, both you and the pirate are doomed! ...And then the ninja and dinosaur would continue their journey together.

Ah but that's the secret ending. If you leave the Pirate alone in the boat he steals it, and goes a' piratin' (and steals a goat!)

@Klear, Based upon my descriptions of the Dinosaur... I am going with either Miniature Giant Space T-Rex, or Velociraptor.
Last edited by Velexia on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:55 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Red Hal
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Tree-mendous.
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peewee_RotA
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

paulrowe wrote:My first take on this was influenced by a local event that's happening this weekend. Due to the growing losses of livestock to coyotes, a local gun shop advertised a coyote hunt. When controversy broke out, the event was canceled, but another gun shop stepped up to the plate and offered its own coyote hunt. The prize to the participant who brought down the most coyotes: a Browning shotgun and two AR15's. Controversy broke out again, but the gun shop didn't step down, saying that several landowners had asked the participants to hunt their lands. A friend of mine drove by the gun shop last weekend and there were some twenty people protesting the hunt and two people with a little cardboard sign outside the shop supporting it.

KOAT news
KRQE news
Reuters USA

This is not intended to stir up strife, though I know that it likely will. This was just the first thing that came to mind when I read, "Why did you have a wolf?"

Someone needs to help out those protesters and bring those coyotes to them for protection.
"Vowels have trouble getting married in Canada. They can’t pronounce their O’s."

FrobozzWizard
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

On the Ninja-Pirate-Dinosaur problem: Alas, the rules don't specify that disaster strikes only if passengers are left unattended.

Which means that this problem is over before it begins, because before you've put anyone on the boat the ninja and pirate kill each other, the dinosaur eats you, then eats the ninja and pirate corpses, and then wanders off in triumph.

jc
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Snooj wrote:I'm not sure I want to be part of a world where no one has yet challenged the premise that keeping a goat and cabbage is better than keeping a wolf.

People do have wolves as pets. They were typically captured as a young pups, and grew up with their humans. They aren't psychologically like dogs, but some people like them. This has not only happened throughout history, but must have happened much further back. Dogs are just domesticated wolves, and must have started off with some humans and wolves teaming up, living and hunting together. Over generations, these "tame" wolves were permanently changed into a different sort of critter.

Actually, biologists argue that the changing has to have happened on both sides. Humans were modified in the process, into critters that routinely adopt animals (and plants) of all sorts, tame them, and make them into household pets. Of course, we also eat a lot of them. But even the domesticated animals that we eat profit (at the species level) from the relationship. Most of our domestic food animals have much larger populations than their wild relatives. Some of those food animals (and most of our food plants) even have longer average lifespans than their wild relatives.

mathmannix
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

FrobozzWizard wrote:On the Ninja-Pirate-Dinosaur problem: Alas, the rules don't specify that disaster strikes only if passengers are left unattended.

Which means that this problem is over before it begins, because before you've put anyone on the boat the ninja and pirate kill each other, the dinosaur eats you, then eats the ninja and pirate corpses, and then wanders off in triumph.

Partially correct - but this dinosaur apparently doesn't see inanimate objects, so he wanders off while the ninja and pirate corpses merely rot. I think the best solution is to quickly get in the boat and let everyone else die. The dinosaur will probably follow you, though, because I think it can swim.

Edit: I think the wolf can swim after your boat, too.
I hear velociraptor tastes like chicken.

Fire Brns
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

paulrowe wrote:My first take on this was influenced by a local event that's happening this weekend. Due to the growing losses of livestock to coyotes, a local gun shop advertised a coyote hunt.
...
A friend of mine drove by the gun shop last weekend and there were some twenty people protesting the hunt and two people with a little cardboard sign outside the shop supporting it.
...

What the people don't understand is that by the time coyotes are so numerous as to attack livestock they have overpopulated, depleted local wildlife reserves, and will attack pets and people. Hunting them is for their own good as a species and the ecosystem. Also they carry rabies.
Djehutynakht wrote:Why would you not have a wolf?

Exactly. Wolves were useful enough for our ancestors for hunting and protection, they are good enough for us.

But my question is: what would you do if the cabbage will eat the wolf if left alone together?
Last edited by Fire Brns on Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Coyne
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

I have the wolf because...it would be a poor logic problem without it.
In all fairness...

J Thomas
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Velexia wrote:You have a Ninja, a Pirate, and a Dinosaur.

The Dinosaur can't see the Ninja, because it has some frog DNA and can't see things that don't move. The Ninja is good at not moving.

The Dinosaur however, will eat the Pirate.

The Ninja and the Pirate will kill each other.

The Ninja will kill anyone it is alone with, except the Dinosaur.

I have to assume the dinosaur won't eat people unless he's alone with them, or nothing works.

First cross with pirate, return alone.
Second ninja crosses with dinosaur, pirate returns alone.
Third cross with pirate.

If the ninja can't row the boat without moving then the dinosaur eats him.
If pirate steals the boat when he has it alone, it also fails.

First dinosaur rows the boat with ninja not moving. Dinosaur returns alone.
You and pirate cross, ninja returns alone.
Dinosaur rows the boat again with ninja not moving.

If the dinosaur won't row the boat three times then this doesn't work either.

This is a hard problem. Not so bad if the ninja can row the boat with the dinosaur in it, though. Or if somebody other than the ninja can share the boat with the dinosaur.

If the dinosaur or ninja won't kill you in the boat, then the traditional solution works.

1. Row pirate and return alone.
2. Row ninja and return with pirate.
3. Row dinosaur and return alone.
4. Row pirate.
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another josh
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

One thing I've always wondered with this problem is what would happen if the person left the wolf, goat, and cabbage alone on the bank. The problem only states that you can't leave the following pairs alone, wolf and goat, goat and cabbage. If you left the wolf, goat, and cabbage alone is the presence of the cabbage enough to keep the wolf from eating the goat?

Also, given how often my dog eats plants from the brassica family right out of our garden (much to our dismay), I'm not sure the cabbage would be safe alone with the wolf.

peewee_RotA
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Fire Brns wrote:But my question is: what would you do if the cabbage will eat the wolf if left alone together?

I would probably name it Audrey II.
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

another josh wrote:If you left the wolf, goat, and cabbage alone is the presence of the cabbage enough to keep the wolf from eating the goat?

The cabbage must make the wolf lose his appetite.

Rotherian
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

peewee_RotA wrote:
paulrowe wrote:My first take on this was influenced by a local event that's happening this weekend. Due to the growing losses of livestock to coyotes, a local gun shop advertised a coyote hunt. When controversy broke out, the event was canceled, but another gun shop stepped up to the plate and offered its own coyote hunt. The prize to the participant who brought down the most coyotes: a Browning shotgun and two AR15's. Controversy broke out again, but the gun shop didn't step down, saying that several landowners had asked the participants to hunt their lands. A friend of mine drove by the gun shop last weekend and there were some twenty people protesting the hunt and two people with a little cardboard sign outside the shop supporting it.

KOAT news
KRQE news
Reuters USA

This is not intended to stir up strife, though I know that it likely will. This was just the first thing that came to mind when I read, "Why did you have a wolf?"

Someone needs to help out those protesters and bring those coyotes to them for protection.

Maybe it is just the part of me that is a jerk, but I think that if animal rights activists (as in the people that stage protests, not the people who just don't think that animals should be harmed) became responsible for those animals whose rights the activists "support" via protests, one of three things would occur:
a) There would be less protesters because they would no longer support those animals;
b) There would be less protesters because they would be attacked and killed by said animals;
or
c) There would be less protesters because they would be so busy taking care of the animal in question that they wouldn't have time to protest.

(I'll admit that there are probably other outcomes, but I only listed the ones that would result in a net decline in the number of protesters.)
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neremanth
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Sir_Read-a-Lot wrote:This is why you present this problem with a dog, a chicken, and bird seed.

Maybe that would work with the dogs you know. Definitely not with my parents'. (Well, you'd be ok with one of them if you had a table with you and left the birdseed on the table).

FrobozzWizard wrote:On the Ninja-Pirate-Dinosaur problem:

That so needs to be the first part of the title of a maths paper!
FrobozzWizard wrote:before you've put anyone on the boat the ninja and pirate kill each other

I'm kind of curious about this. How exactly do they manage that? Does the pirate have a gun, which he/she fires, but the ninja has already hurled a shuriken which the pirate is too busy jubilating to see coming?

JeromeWest wrote:
Klear wrote:...the solution is the same as the original riddle, just treat the pirate as a goat.

In my experience, pirates get very annoyed when you treat them as goats.

Yes, I'm imagining it would go down similarly to Professor Calculus in Destination Moon... or at least that's what I thought of when I read that

dudiobugtron
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

phlip wrote:
cellocgw wrote:Next you'll tell us the solution to the U-2 + bridge crossing problem.

I'm not too familiar with that one, but I hope the solution involves collapsing the bridge while Bono is standing on it.

It's a pretty common puzzle with lots of different forms. You have some people who cross a bridge in the dark. Each person has a different speed. The bridge is too rickety to hold everyone, so has a maximum capacity. You don't have enough torches for everyone to have one, so you need to get someone to bring a torch back for the next group as well. How fast can you get them all across?

In the U2 version, you need to get them across quickly so they can make it to their concert in time. Sadly, the solution involves Bono making it across. Although he probably gets a bit winded from all the bridge crossing.

Here are some different instances of it:
http://www.mathematik.uni-bielefeld.de/ ... ing-bridge

tolliner
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

rhomboidal wrote:I'm sure the wolf has little pigs and girls in red riding hoods filling its schedule anyway.

Unless it's this girl in a red riding hood: RWBY "Red" Trailer (put this in youtube, the url is being rejected as spam)

In which case the wolf should have swam to the other side

lisac
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Goat soup, such as might be made in Liberia, requires goat and cabbage.

The wolf is for catching more goats.

jc
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

savage wrote:
Djehutynakht wrote:Why would you not have a wolf?

This, right here. Wolves are awesome.

A number of articles have been written about keeping wolves as pets. The writers generally warn the reader that this is not to be undertaken lightly. A wolf is a large, strong predator with a natural fear of humans, and people who don't understand them have often been injured when they do something that frightens the wolf. The idea is that you want to read up on the topic, understand how they differ from domestic dogs, and how to treat them so that you'll both be safe from each other.

This isn't unique with wolves. Due to my wife's allergy to most furry critters, we've had long had pet parrots. They've been mostly cockatiels, which along with budgies have been bred as pets for more than a century. That's many generations, since they can produce babies in their second year. So those two species have been modified into domesticated pet animals.

But one of our current birds is a blue-crowned conure, who was a "rescue" bird found scared and hungry in a tree some miles away. This is in the Boston area, so it's not a local native, and could never survive a winter. They've only recently appeared in pet stores outside their native South America, and don't qualify as "domesticated" at all. It took about a month before we weren't afraid of her beak any more, because it's a powerful nutcracker that could easily break a finger bone. She cracks and eats cherry pits, and if you try this with your teeth, you'll appreciate the power of her beak muscles. She also keeps her beak tip at needle-like sharpness, and uses it to split nuts along seams. But now we can play fairly rough with her, because she trusts us and considers us the leaders of her "flock". We do have to warn visitors not to stick their fingers out at her, though, because we recognize when she's afraid of a stranger (which is almost always), and she could seriously injure them.

And, of course, this is not really different from having a domestic dog or cat. Their teeth and jaw muscles and their claws could easily do serious damage to a human. But most people have grown up with dogs and cats, and know how to interact with them. People who have grown up with a parrot will also know their psychology, and can interact with them easily. But, like wolves, each wild species is special, and you have to learn how to make friends with them.

Actually, some years ago I visited some friends with a pet wolf. It was obviously afraid of me at first, so I just ignored it. After an hour or so, its fear decreased and its curiosity increased, so it came closer and checked me out. After a while, it was touching its nose to my hand, and soon after that I was scratching it under the chin then behind the ears. But I was pretty well aware that it wasn't a domestic dog, so I didn't try to do much more with it. I knew that I was still a stranger on its turf.

mixh
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

jpk wrote:
Or a cabbage, for that matter. The goat makes sense. Goats are fine.

Goat stew without cabbage < goat stew with cabbage

1.kill the goat.
2.take the wolf across the water
3.row back across the water
4.break up boat into little pieces and build fire
5.cook goat and cabbage
6.eat goat and cabbage taunting wolf across the bay
7.hope wolf can't swim

mixh
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

mixh wrote:
jpk wrote:
Or a cabbage, for that matter. The goat makes sense. Goats are fine.

Goat stew without cabbage < goat stew with cabbage

1.kill the goat.
2.take the wolf across the water
3.row back across the water
4.break up boat into little pieces and build fire
5.cook goat and cabbage
6.eat goat and cabbage taunting wolf across the bay
7.hope wolf can't swim

OR is that: kill pirate/take ninja across river/cook dinosaur and pirate... oh, dinosaur has eaten dead pirate, nevermind, kill + cook dinosaur/ hope ninja can't swim.

neremanth
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

mixh wrote:
mixh wrote:
jpk wrote:
Or a cabbage, for that matter. The goat makes sense. Goats are fine.

Goat stew without cabbage < goat stew with cabbage

1.kill the goat.
2.take the wolf across the water
3.row back across the water
4.break up boat into little pieces and build fire
5.cook goat and cabbage
6.eat goat and cabbage taunting wolf across the bay
7.hope wolf can't swim

OR is that: kill pirate/take ninja across river/cook dinosaur and pirate... oh, dinosaur has eaten dead pirate, nevermind, kill + cook dinosaur/ hope ninja can't swim.

No, no, the dinosaur is the wolf - keep up!

Wnderer
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

You have rock, paper and scissors and you can only bring one over at a time.

If you leave the paper with the rock, paper will cover rock.
If you leave the rock with the scissors, rock will smash scissors.
If you leave the scissors with paper, scissors will cut paper.

How do you get them across?

Spoiler:
You can't unsmash the scissors or uncut the paper but you can uncover the rock.

VectorZero
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

jc wrote:Humans were modified in the process, into critters that routinely adopt animals (and plants)
and rocks. God help me, and rocks.

Anyway.

You see those dogs? I ferried a wolf across the river. I bred a new species of guard dog that defended the village against rabid wolves. But do they call me Mcgregor the Wolf-Ferrier?

You see that cabbage field? I brought a cabbage across the river and planted that field. It fed us through many a harsh winter. But do they call me Mcgregor the Cabbage-Ferrier?

...

But you ferry one goat ...
Van wrote:Fireballs don't lie.

drummerpatch
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

gladiolas wrote:As I understand it, ninjas are like mercenaries, they are paid to be on specific missions to do certain things. So you could just ask the ninja nicely, or pay him, not to kill you or the pirate.

You could ride the dinosaur across and pay the ninja and pirate not to kill each other while in the boat.

The dinosaur can't see the ninja but can smell or hear the ninja so it might attack anyway.

Not only are ninjas much like mercenaries, but so are pirates. Most pirates were actually privateers (essentially private-sector ship captains whose services were bought by the government -- much like a commercial factory providing military production during wartime) who were hired by one navy, and told to attack any ships flying another navy's flag. They were told they could do whatever they wanted with the crew, ship, and cargo, as long as they no longer continued to let it sail. Often the crews were killed and the ships were sunk after they'd unloaded all of the useful cargo onto the original vessel, but occasionally "enemy" sailors or even ships were captured and continued to be used by the original pirate. All the navy cared about was that the enemy ships were being destroyed, and the pirates would occasionally be given bonuses for capturing so many ships, or for taking out more important vessels.

I'm not going to say all pirates were that way -- there were definitely several who simply set out as pirates and decided to live a life of crime. And there were others who were originally hired as privateers, then started attacking the navy they were hired by as well and became lawless. If you have the guns to destroy any ship you want, then who's going to stop you? But they represented a relatively small portion of the pirating population.

Anyway, long-winded rant, but you get the idea. Pirates were mostly merchants who were hired to attack and kill (obviously, they were merchants with some sadistic tendencies anyway, but nonetheless they didn't commit violent acts as part of their job usually), much as ninjas were simply assassins who were hired to kill high-profile targets. They were just contract killers and bounty hunters.

So both of them, provided you have the money, could be paid not to kill each other (or at least, not until you reach the other side of the river), and the problem just simplified enormously.

dudiobugtron
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Wnderer wrote:You have rock, paper and scissors and you can only bring one over at a time.
<used scissors to snip the rest of the post so the quote box is smaller>

Cover the rock with the paper. Then you can smuggle the rock on the boat and no one will know you're taking two things at once.

Velexia
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Re: 1134: "Logic Boat"

Wnderer wrote:You have rock, paper and scissors and you can only bring one over at a time.

If you leave the paper with the rock, paper will cover rock.
If you leave the rock with the scissors, rock will smash scissors.
If you leave the scissors with paper, scissors will cut paper.

How do you get them across?

Spoiler:
You can't unsmash the scissors or uncut the paper but you can uncover the rock.

Nooooooo the roooock... it's been coveredddd what ever will we dooooo??? Tis the end, I see it!

In regards to the Dinosaur, btw, it can only row the boat after it's been shown how to do it. She's clever, but not ''that" clever (she also gets bored with it and will only do it once, kind of like some cats) Also, no one kills or eats anyone as long as everyone is there to keep tabs on each other. ~_^
Hail Eris!

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