The Mormon Card

[bantler]

Mormonism is notably absent from both campaigns this year. We get the usual gloss of God and Values, but nothing of the distinctly American religion that defines the Life of Romney. The Democrats, after fending off Muslim accusations for years, are presumably holding the high ground. Republicans may just be trying to sneak one under the noses of the cult-sniffing Evangelicals.

[oxoiron]

I think the cult-sniffing Evangelicals are more concerned with voting against Obama than they are with who actually gets their votes.

[c_programmer]

My dad, who is a fundamentalist Christian, has said numerous times that he doesn't like Romney but this election is "anyone but Obama."

[Tyndmyr]

I expect my family(who is wildly right wing fundies) to be the same. They were probably not thrilled by his nomination, but they certainly wouldn't consider voting for Obama, so they'll vote for Romney.

It's really amazing how people that vote solidly along party lines can shift their justifications for doing so every year.

[bantler]

My dad, who is a fundamentalist Christian, has said numerous times that he doesn't like Romney but this election is "anyone but Obama."

It’s amazing that evangelicals would adhere to a Mantra...

They better be careful; Mormonism is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

[Роберт]

They better be careful; Mormonism is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

[citation needed]

[Derek]

I can't tell if the OP is asking a serious question or if he's trying to suggest himself that being Mormon is a problem...

The actual answer is that the vast majority of Americans don't give a shit if he's Mormon or not. There is no "card" to play. More would care if a candidate were (actually) Muslim or atheist, but anything Judeo-Christian is fine.

[bantler]

I can't tell if the OP is asking a serious question or if he's trying to suggest himself that being Mormon is a problem...

The actual answer is that the vast majority of Americans don't give a shit if he's Mormon or not. There is no "card" to play. More would care if a candidate were (actually) Muslim or atheist, but anything Judeo-Christian is fine.

I’ve known many Catholics, Evangelicals and Southern-Baptists over the years. I’m seriously suggesting that they are conveniently duplicitous and insincere in their faith if they vote a Mormon as president.
Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

[Derek]

Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

It was never an issue. The news media kept saying it was going to be an issue, just like they said that Kennedy being Catholic was going to be an issue, but no one actually cared then or now. Romney even ran a close primary four years ago, and it wasn't an issue then either.

[DSenette]

I can't tell if the OP is asking a serious question or if he's trying to suggest himself that being Mormon is a problem...

The actual answer is that the vast majority of Americans don't give a shit if he's Mormon or not. There is no "card" to play. More would care if a candidate were (actually) Muslim or atheist, but anything Judeo-Christian is fine.

I’ve known many Catholics, Evangelicals and Southern-Baptists over the years. I’m seriously suggesting that they are conveniently duplicitous and insincere in their faith if they vote a Mormon as president.
Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

wait, you mean religious conservatives are duplicitous? and are duplicitous when it serves their ends to boot? well i never!

[bantler]

Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

It was never an issue. The news media kept saying it was going to be an issue, just like they said that Kennedy being Catholic was going to be an issue, but no one actually cared then or now. Romney even ran a close primary four years ago, and it wasn't an issue then either.

Religion has always been an issue, until it hits the wall of confirmation bias.

The Daily Beast has obtained a series of emails that show an influential evangelical activist with close ties to the Perry campaign stressing the political importance of “juxtaposing traditional Christianity to the false God of Mormonism,” and calling for a “clarion call to Evangelical pastors and pews” that will be “the key to the primary” for Perry.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... ssage.html

[Tyndmyr]

I’ve known many Catholics, Evangelicals and Southern-Baptists over the years. I’m seriously suggesting that they are conveniently duplicitous and insincere in their faith if they vote a Mormon as president.
Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

Religion and politics, when mixed, can include insincerity and duplicity? I'm shocked.

[oxoiron]

They better be careful; Mormonism religion is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

I fixed that for you.

[bantler]

They better be careful; Mormonism religion is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

I fixed that for you.

But it's like Crackers electing Cake...

[Adam H]

I’ve known many Catholics, Evangelicals and Southern-Baptists over the years. I’m seriously suggesting that they are conveniently duplicitous and insincere in their faith if they vote a Mormon as president.
Mormonism was a wedge issue a year ago during the primaries, now it’s “fine”?

What are you saying - that if you dislike something about a politician, it's duplicitous and insincere to vote for them? You must like everything about a candidate in order to be able to vote?

[Derek]

Actually I'm pretty sure he's saying that Mormons aren't Christians and we should only be voting for Christians. Or at the very least, that people should only vote for politicians of their own religion.

[Роберт]

They better be careful; Mormonism religion is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

I fixed that for you.

But it's like Crackers electing Cake...

Both contain gluten?

[bantler]

Actually I'm pretty sure he's saying that Mormons aren't Christians and we should only be voting for Christians. Or at the very least, that people should only vote for politicians of their own religion.

If I was a sincere and devout parishioner, and my church doctrine had for many years condemned a sect as a cult, I would not in good-faith be able to cast a vote to elect said cultist as Leader of The Free World.

[Bsob]

When ever someone tells you 1.that they know what your beliefs are (even though they don't hold them), and 2.that if you REALLY believe what you believe, then 3.you should do what they want you to do, you can be safe in the knowledge that they have no idea what they are talking about.

If a group you aren't part of acts in a way different than they way you think you would act if you were a member, it is likely that you just don't understand the group as well as you think you do.

[bantler]

When ever someone tells you 1.that they know what your beliefs are (even though they don't hold them), and 2.that if you REALLY believe what you believe, then 3.you should do what they want you to do, you can be safe in the knowledge that they have no idea what they are talking about.

If a group you aren't part of acts in a way different than they way you think you would act if you were a member, it is likely that you just don't understand the group as well as you think you do.

It's like you've never met an evangelical.

[Tyndmyr]

When ever someone tells you 1.that they know what your beliefs are (even though they don't hold them), and 2.that if you REALLY believe what you believe, then 3.you should do what they want you to do, you can be safe in the knowledge that they have no idea what they are talking about.

If a group you aren't part of acts in a way different than they way you think you would act if you were a member, it is likely that you just don't understand the group as well as you think you do.

Or, yknow, sometimes people actually lie.

[bantler]

Or, yknow, sometimes people actually lie.

Or rationalize and justify…opinions and feelings aren’t always so concrete.

[Diadem]

Leader of The Free World.

Huh, what do the German elections have to do with anything?

[omgryebread]

Actually I'm pretty sure he's saying that Mormons aren't Christians and we should only be voting for Christians. Or at the very least, that people should only vote for politicians of their own religion.

If I was a sincere and devout parishioner, and my church doctrine had for many years condemned a sect as a cult, I would not in good-faith be able to cast a vote to elect said cultist as Leader of The Free World.

The Babylonian captivity was God's punishment of the Israelites for their disobedience. In other words, God worked through the Babylonians. Later, he worked through Cyrus the Great, a Zoroastrian to liberate the Jews from Babylon. Both Judaism and Evangelical Christianity view Cyrus as anointed by God.

So if God can work through the Baylonians and can anoint a Zoroastrian as a chosen king, why can't he work through a Mormon?

[poxic]

You're trying to logic religion. That's like trying to apple walls -- they don't tend to stick, no matter how hard you throw them.

[lutzj]

Actually I'm pretty sure he's saying that Mormons aren't Christians and we should only be voting for Christians. Or at the very least, that people should only vote for politicians of their own religion.

If I was a sincere and devout parishioner, and my church doctrine had for many years condemned a sect as a cult, I would not in good-faith be able to cast a vote to elect said cultist as Leader of The Free World.

Why? It's not like it'd be politically or legally possible for him to impose Mormonism on us from the Oval Office. People also thought that JFK was going to sell us out to the Pope or that Obama hated white people based on their respective religious practices. Both assumptions have proven false, and, more importantly, to not matter.

[TheGrammarBolshevik]

I’ve known many Catholics, Evangelicals and Southern-Baptists over the years. I’m seriously suggesting that they are conveniently duplicitous and insincere in their faith if they vote a Mormon as president.

I'm a little confused… does the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention hold the position that Mormons should be excluded from public office?

[c_programmer]

It’s amazing that evangelicals would adhere to a Mantra...

When you're main source of news is Rush Limbaugh and you take movies like 2016: Obama's America at face value, you're going think Obama is the devil. They truly think that Obama is deliberately sabotaging the economy and trying to bring America down (the central thesis of that movie to my understanding). With views like that you'll vote for anyone with a chance before Obama, even if he is a cult member. They'd still vote for him even if his tax return stuff ends up being true and lands him a felony. You have to understand how demonized Obama is in conservative circles.

They better be careful; Mormonism is such a fantastic concoction, if it’s legitimized it’ll be a juggernaut.

I disagree. They're batshit crazy people know it. Most Christians I'm aware of don't even consider them part of the group, they're an external cult. Other religions won't care for them and the non-religious think they're idiots. They might gain some number but I strongly doubt they'll gain anything significant.

[Izawwlgood]

You have to understand how demonized Obama is in conservative circles.

I certainly agree with you about this, and as someone with a conservative family contingent of people who rhetoric that underlines this, I know first hand how right you are.

But lets be honest; Republicans, Romney, they all take a pretty heavy beating from the left. I don't say this to suggest one side is more or less honest than the other, but lets acknowledge that politics is largely demonizing the opposition party in an effort to make your candidate look better.

It just so happens that most Republicans are actually idiots.

[Derek]

I'm a little confused… does the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention hold the position that Mormons should be excluded from public office?

Nope.

[Роберт]

It just so happens that most Republicans people are actually idiots.

FTFY

[bantler]

I'm a little confused… does the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention hold the position that Mormons should be excluded from public office?

Yes, but maybe not officially.
I know Evangelicals who won't even let their kids play with non-Christians...clearly the government is an order higher than a play-date.

[cphite]

I'm a little confused… does the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention hold the position that Mormons should be excluded from public office?

Yes, but maybe not officially.
I know Evangelicals who won't even let their kids play with non-Christians...clearly the government is an order higher than a play-date.

I can't speak for the Southern Baptist Convention, but the Catholic Church does not hold the position that Mormons (or any other religion) should be excluded from public office. You may know some evangelicals who believe that sort of thing; but evangelicals make up a fairly small segment of the overall population, and their beliefs do not necessarily represent the beliefs of the rest of us, or of the Church itself.

[bantler]

I'm a little confused… does the Catholic Church or the Southern Baptist Convention hold the position that Mormons should be excluded from public office?

Yes, but maybe not officially.
I know Evangelicals who won't even let their kids play with non-Christians...clearly the government is an order higher than a play-date.

I can't speak for the Southern Baptist Convention, but the Catholic Church does not hold the position that Mormons (or any other religion) should be excluded from public office. You may know some evangelicals who believe that sort of thing; but evangelicals make up a fairly small segment of the overall population, and their beliefs do not necessarily represent the beliefs of the rest of us, or of the Church itself.

Fair enough. Is it safe to say that Catholics and some Evangelicals view Mormons as a cult; misguided and hell-bound? By inference I expect most individuals to interpret their view, by not electing pagans to positions of earthly-authority over Christians.

Quote from the ever-reliable internet:

The Catholic Church views Mormons as pagans, since Mormon theology teaches that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities, albeit, they are all progressing to the same ultimate stage. This fundamental difference in their theology, having three gods, is paganism. The claims of Joseph Smith are not given credence by the Catholic Church, nor is the Book of Mormon received as Divine Revelation. The fact that the Mormons dare place it alongside the Bible is viewed as blasphemy. For the Mormon Church to be true, it must be assumed that God's Church on earth, instituted by Jesus Christ, somehow failed and that revelation was not completed with the death of the last apostle but instead was withheld until God saw it fit to reveal it to Joseph Smith centuries upon centuries after Christ had died to inaugurate the New Testament. The Church finds this idea repugnant, for the idea assumes Christ died in vain if His saving grace somehow became lost to the world at any point in history. Mormon ordinances (their version of the sacraments) are not received as valid by the Church, nor does the Church respect the Mormons' authority to preach on Christ or His salvation.

[Роберт]

I still don't get the point of this thread. It sounds like you want there to be more sectarian strife than there is?

[The Great Hippo]

Fair enough. Is it safe to say that Catholics and some Evangelicals view Mormons as a cult; misguided and hell-bound? By inference I expect most individuals to interpret their view, by not electing pagans to positions of earthly-authority over Christians.

It's probably safe to say that Catholicism views all non-Catholic religions as failing to be sufficiently Catholic. But you're magicking your way from 'You believe in the wrong God' to 'Your political policies will therefore be worse than the other guy's'. You seem to think Catholics are caught in some sort of logical trap here, but I'm just not seeing it.

Yes, from a Catholic perspective, Mormonism is all sorts of tomfoolery. But that doesn't mean supporting Mormons--in office or elsewhere--is therefore never in their best interests. And decisions like 'Who should I vote for?' are invariably about serving your best interests, however you perceive them.

Some people will make that decision based on which holy book these candidates keep in their bedroom dressers. Other people will make that decision based on tax policies, or Romney's hair, or Obama's skin tone. Being Catholic does not somehow require you to make voting decisions based on the religion of your candidate.

[morriswalters]

Mormonism makes only a minor difference. The mistake in that thinking is that people vote their Religions, they don't in most cases. They vote their self interest, or they vote against things. You simplify your thinking when the decisions are too complex. Rather than, say, voting for Romney as a Christian, your voting against Obama. Your mindset governs more than your Philosophy. You become blind to those things that might ordinarily run through your mind. Run Romney against someone recognized as a "true" Christian and that Mormon card would come onto play. It may well act as an unacknowledged source of discomfort for some in this election, but would probably never become overt.

[bantler]

I still don't get the point of this thread. It sounds like you want there to be more sectarian strife than there is?

I started with what I assumed was an obvious fact; that strife exists...
My conclusion is that racism trumps values.

[Роберт]

I still don't get the point of this thread. It sounds like you want there to be more sectarian strife than there is?

I started with what I assumed was an obvious fact; that strife exists...
My conclusion is that racism trumps values.

And where do you get that conclusion from?

It sounds more like bigotry trumps rational thought. In your case.

[bantler]

I still don't get the point of this thread. It sounds like you want there to be more sectarian strife than there is?

I started with what I assumed was an obvious fact; that strife exists...
My conclusion is that racism trumps values.

And where do you get that conclusion from?

It sounds more like bigotry trumps rational thought. In your case.

Do you live in the United States? Have you ever watched the news or talked politics with Republicans?
Oh, I'm just voting Obama to absolve my white guilt.