Washing hands after using bathroom

For the serious discussion of weighty matters and worldly issues. No off-topic posts allowed.

Moderators: Azrael, Moderators General, Prelates

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:56 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Doing it wrong is almost worse than not doing it at all. It gives you a sense of safety that isn't real. Awareness doesn't prevent disease. Anyhow, as usual, this has been usefully informative to me. I still don't understand why Crissa thinks commercial hinges would be a violation of the residential building code? Which of course has nothing to do with hand washing. :D


Nah. Even incomplete handwashing reduces bacterial load. It is, of course, better to do it properly, but even quickie washes can improve cleanliness.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby addams » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:58 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Doing it wrong is almost worse than not doing it at all. It gives you a sense of safety that isn't real. Awareness doesn't prevent disease. Anyhow, as usual, this has been usefully informative to me. I still don't understand why Crissa thinks commercial hinges would be a violation of the residential building code? Which of course has nothing to do with hand washing. :D


Nah. Even incomplete handwashing reduces bacterial load. It is, of course, better to do it properly, but even quickie washes can improve cleanliness.

Yes.
If you teach your children to stand and hold their hands as if they are washing when no facilities are present, it makes a difference. A good difference.

Think about it.
Who is aware of what their little hands are doing?

I'd put good medical personal and obsessive compulsives in that group.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:04 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
Adam H wrote:If the reader misinterprets, the blame lies with the author. It's especially important to be crystal clear in cases where the goal is to persuade someone to change their behavior, because the reader will tend to willfully misinterpret.

I want you to read those two sentences together, and then think about it for a minute: The blame lies with the author, because the reader will willfully misinterpret? No. Just no. There is a reasonable obligation on any reader's part to use good judgement and available context. Not everything written can be idiot-proofed.

Go click the link. It's not a code enforcement document. It's not a contract or legal document. It's not trying to convince you to change your behavior. It's a casual overview about what the CDC recommends as best hand washing practices for the general public. Half of the population never uses urinals; of the other half only a portion of our day (if any) is spent in locations served by urinals. This "urinal isn't 'the toilet'" confusion is entirely of your own making, so either stop doubling-down on your (willful?) misinterpretation or write to the CDC and ask they use 'lavatory' or 'restroom' in the future because you're confused about common usage.

1) Willful misintrepretarion doesn't mean hearing one thing and pretending you heard another. It means hearing something confusing and then choosing whichever meaning fits your opinion. Avoiding this, as a writer, is easy. Just don't leave things open to interpretation.
2) the Wikipedia page for urinal says that it is a "toilet-like device". Not a type of toilet. Not a toilet. A device that is LIKE a toilet.
3) informing the general public pf something serves absolutely no purpose if not to persuade them to behave a certain way.
-Adam

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:24 am UTC

Adam H wrote:2) the Wikipedia page for urinal says that it is a "toilet-like device". Not a type of toilet. Not a toilet. A device that is LIKE a toilet.

Instead of considering the information from the link I left you earlier, where wikipedia that explains that the usage of 'the toilet' is common, you'd rather argue whether or not a urinal is a subset of toilets? No one is making a case about how best to classify the urinal in the hierarchy of plumbing fixtures. The point being made is that referring to the room where one does their business -- or the act of doing that business in the presence of modern plumbing fixtures -- as 'the toilet' is commonly understood. The CDC was not unclear, you're just being extremely pedantic.

that link I dropped earlier wrote:Toilet (room)

A toilet room is a room containing a toilet and sometimes a sink (washbasin).

Alternative names

A toilet room, often shortened to just toilet, may also be called a lavatory, or WC, short for "water closet"...


Now, lest you feel inclined to revive the 'urinal is not a toilet' argument in order to suggest that a room with urinals isn't a 'toilet room' (and thus, invalid to be shortened to 'the toilet'), I'll remind you that a) where there are urinals, there are toilets and b) everyone else in the thread understood just fine.

Perhaps you've never heard that usage, but that doesn't mean it isn't used. So again, feel free to actually state a case that they should have used 'restroom', because I sincerely doubt that, when verbally excusing yourself to take a leak, you specifically use the word 'urinal'. No one is going to complain that 'restroom' isn't an equally valid (better, given the frequency of usage in the US; worse, given that it's often used specifically for public facilities) alternative for the CDC to have used.

In the mean time, wash your hands after using the bathroom.

User avatar
Quercus
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Quercus » Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:33 am UTC

addams wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Doing it wrong is almost worse than not doing it at all. It gives you a sense of safety that isn't real. Awareness doesn't prevent disease. Anyhow, as usual, this has been usefully informative to me. I still don't understand why Crissa thinks commercial hinges would be a violation of the residential building code? Which of course has nothing to do with hand washing. :D


Nah. Even incomplete handwashing reduces bacterial load. It is, of course, better to do it properly, but even quickie washes can improve cleanliness.

Yes.
If you teach your children to stand and hold their hands as if they are washing when no facilities are present, it makes a difference. A good difference.

Think about it.
Who is aware of what their little hands are doing?

I'd put good medical personal and obsessive compulsives in that group.


Add laboratory personnel to that group - it really freaks me out to see a new lab worker touching their face with gloves on. If you're wearing gloves it's either because you don't want what you are working with on you, or you in what you are working with* - in either case I shudder every time I see it (and take the person aside for a word if it's happening without the person noticing)

*actually, quite often it can be just because "we're in a lab and wearing gloves is what we do here", but that's a silly reason.

jareds
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:56 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby jareds » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:13 am UTC

Diadem wrote:In other news. All this toilet / bathroom / restroom / etc terminology is still rather confusing to me poor foreign ears, especially with all the regional differences floating around. Can someone explain the different terminology?

US, probably "media standard" dialect (California):

It's best to start by understanding how the terms are used outside of the "use the X" idiom.

A toilet is a plumbing fixture for the elimination of human waste. It most commonly means the bowl-style fixture, but it could reasonably be used generically to include bowls and urinals (wall-mounted fixtures for urination by men).

It wouldn't hurt you to treat "bathroom" and "restroom" as synonyms unless you're training to be a spy, but they do have a difference.

A bathroom is a room with a toilet and/or urinal in it (and hopefully a sink...). It might also have bathing facilities. In a residence, particularly in the context of real estate, "full bathroom" versus "half bathroom" distinguishes the presence or absence of bathing facilities.

A restroom is a bathroom in a non-residential location (for a hair-splitting example, a bathroom in a hotel lobby is a restroom but a bathroom in a hotel room is not). This is bearing in mind that I'm not talking about the "use the X" idiom. For example, "I hired a plumber to renovate my restroom [in my home]" is wrong, and even "I left my watch in the restroom [in a home]" sounds off. However, (1) the distinction doesn't apply in the other direction: calling a restroom a bathroom is common, and (2) the distinction is more strictly observed when referring to specific rooms, not generic rooms: it would only sound a little off for someone to use "restrooms" generically for bathrooms in this discussion.

For the "use the X" idiom, "bathroom" and "restroom" are the most common by far, and the bathroom/restroom distinction is not really observed at all. And of course a large number of synonyms will be recognized and acceptable for X.

The UK use of "toilet" to mean "bathroom" is non-standard.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:51 am UTC

Quercus wrote:
addams wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Doing it wrong is almost worse than not doing it at all. It gives you a sense of safety that isn't real. Awareness doesn't prevent disease. Anyhow, as usual, this has been usefully informative to me. I still don't understand why Crissa thinks commercial hinges would be a violation of the residential building code? Which of course has nothing to do with hand washing. :D


Nah. Even incomplete handwashing reduces bacterial load. It is, of course, better to do it properly, but even quickie washes can improve cleanliness.

Yes.
If you teach your children to stand and hold their hands as if they are washing when no facilities are present, it makes a difference. A good difference.

Think about it.
Who is aware of what their little hands are doing?

I'd put good medical personal and obsessive compulsives in that group.


Add laboratory personnel to that group - it really freaks me out to see a new lab worker touching their face with gloves on. If you're wearing gloves it's either because you don't want what you are working with on you, or you in what you are working with* - in either case I shudder every time I see it (and take the person aside for a word if it's happening without the person noticing)

*actually, quite often it can be just because "we're in a lab and wearing gloves is what we do here", but that's a silly reason.

Holy Cow! Yes!
When we put those gloves on, our hands are no longer ours.
Our hands belong to The Job.

Even when ungloved, those hands should Never touch your face or hair.
It takes training and some people come by it more naturally than others.

I am so glad you take people aside and talk to them.
I'd want you to talk to me. Not to hurt my feelings.

It is so important.
If we learn it at home, our selves our friends and our families are safer.

It is a single thing we can teach children that will make the world a better place.
If they learn it early, it becomes a part of them. What a nice gift that child is to The World.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:47 pm UTC

Reasonable question, asked by most guys at some point in their life: "I know I need to wash my hands after wiping my ass, but what about pissing in a urinal?"

UNHELPFUL answer: "wash your hands after using a toilet".

Reasonable conclusion: "if I really needed to wash my hands after pissing, the cdc would have told me so. They must not think its important or they would have stressed it."
-Adam

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:59 pm UTC

I don't know how to answer that.
If I rub my face, I need to wash my hands before I cook.

If I am gardening, I can rub my face scratch my ass cheek and pet the dog then go back to gardening.
I don't know how to answer that.

Urine from a healthy individual is sterile when it leaves the body.
On a healthy individual penis skin is skin like any other skin.

Getting into that skin might require touching other weird stuff.
A man in a Kilt must touch his hem.

A man in pants must get through dirty cloth to get to the clean penis.
I have No Idea. I learned today that we are lucky if they wash at all.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:29 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Reasonable question, asked by most guys at some point in their life: "I know I need to wash my hands after wiping my ass, but what about pissing in a urinal?"

UNHELPFUL answer: "wash your hands after using a toilet".

Reasonable conclusion: "if I really needed to wash my hands after pissing, the cdc would have told me so. They must not think its important or they would have stressed it."
No, that's not a reasonable conclusion. Why? Two reasons:

1) When you're at home and you take a leak, do you use the toilet? Yes. Is the form/nature/details of the act at a urinal meaningfully different? No. Conclusion: It's the same act regardless of toilet/urinal, therefore it falls into a category where the CDC suggests you wash your hands.

2) Look at the CDC's list in context:
When should you wash your hands?

Before, during, and after preparing food
Before eating food
Before and after caring for someone who is sick
Before and after treating a cut or wound
After using the toilet
After changing diapers or cleaning up a child who has used the toilet
After blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing
After touching an animal, animal feed, or animal waste
After touching garbage


... if you really think that such a wide-ranging (one might say comprehensive in scope, if not in detail) list of times to wash your hands somehow leaves room for you to pedant your way out of washing after taking a leak specifically at a urinal, then you're searching too hard for an excuse. Congrats, you've convinced yourself that their wording provides you a loop hole.

Again, the CDC did not provide (nor intend to provide) an exhaustive list. That's not the point. None of those points are sufficiently detailed to provide comprehensive answers to every situation you may encounter without having to engage your brain to some degree -- and yet there's plenty of context there to answer your question.

User avatar
Quercus
Posts: 1810
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 pm UTC
Location: London, UK
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Quercus » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:36 pm UTC

addams wrote: Urine from a healthy individual is sterile when it leaves the body.


I'm afraid it isn't: https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-d ... r-rest-you It looks as if even our brains probably aren't sterile, pretty much everything in the human body has a microbiome.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:51 pm UTC

Sorry for disagreeing with you but I am right and you are wrong. :P

Sure, let's look at that list in context. IMHO, out of all of those activities, peeing is the least germy/offensive/hand-washing-necessary/you-know-what-I-mean. All the others have to do with getting significant body fluids on your hands or transferring what is on your hands to your mouth. Peeing is the activity that would least belong on that list, were it on there. So no, it can't be implied from context. Why it isn't on there explicitly, I don't know, because other than eating it is the most common activity on the list AND the most debatable.

I'm not questioning whether we should wash our hands after peeing. I'm questioning why the cdc isn't making it clear that we should.
-Adam

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:09 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:I'm questioning why the cdc isn't making it clear that we should.

They are making it clear, though, except perhaps to speakers of the alleged* dialects you're familiar with where "using the toilet" doesn't include urinating. (And even then, only to speakers of those dialects that are so isolated from the rest of the English-speaking world that they can't figure out what the CDC means there.)

* I say alleged because I still don't believe any such dialects exist. When you pee at home, do you pee into a toilet? Is this, in fact, the primary way using the toilet? Does the CDC say to wash your hands after doing that? Is there any difference between peeing into a toilet and peeing into a urinal, as far as personal hygiene is concerned? (I'd say yes: using a urinal is more likely to result in splashback onto your hands and is therefore dirtier than using a standard toilet.)
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:13 pm UTC

Quercus wrote:
addams wrote: Urine from a healthy individual is sterile when it leaves the body.


I'm afraid it isn't: https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/gory-d ... r-rest-you It looks as if even our brains probably aren't sterile, pretty much everything in the human body has a microbiome.

ok. ok. Low levels.
I did not recommend pissing on a wound!

Yuck.
It may be pretty darned clean as it exits the body,
But; It is a dandy medium for growth.

You'd think it was too acidic.
But; No. Bacteria like that.

Still. Pissing on your hand is not the end of the world.
It is not anywhere near like having Shit on your hand.

If the facilities are available to wash, I think washing is a good idea.
How about one Happy Birthday for Piss and two Happy Birthdays for Shit?

Can we make a Deal?
That looks like compromise to me.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
mobiusstripsearch
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:21 am UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby mobiusstripsearch » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:29 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:Sorry for disagreeing with you but I am right and you are wrong. :P

Sure, let's look at that list in context. IMHO, out of all of those activities, peeing is the least germy/offensive/hand-washing-necessary/you-know-what-I-mean. All the others have to do with getting significant body fluids on your hands or transferring what is on your hands to your mouth. Peeing is the activity that would least belong on that list, were it on there. So no, it can't be implied from context. Why it isn't on there explicitly, I don't know, because other than eating it is the most common activity on the list AND the most debatable.

I'm not questioning whether we should wash our hands after peeing. I'm questioning why the cdc isn't making it clear that we should.


I thought you had the better until here. If you're wondering why an American authority hasn't spoken in clear British prose, stop: you're not helping.

If on a road trip your mother tells you to stop poking your sister, would you slap her and tell your mother you're demonstrating how unclear her order was?

Even if peeing is the cleanliest of activities listed (what kind of food are you cooking?), it isn't widely understood. The layman's understanding probably says, dick wipe, wash right. I'd bet money people think it's dirty -- even if they don't care. (A new gambling ring. Bet money on survey responses.) The CDC is talking to most people.

Anyways, if you're in a bathroom clean enough to make you think it's cleaner than cooking, you're probably clean enough to wash your hands anyways.
"The inward skies of man will accompany him across any void upon which he ventures and will be with him to the end of time." -- Loren Eiseley

User avatar
addams
Posts: 10325
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby addams » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 pm UTC

As long as we are discussing hand washing.
I'd like to talk to The Chior.

Remember; We live in a modern world.
After you have been ill or had an ill person moving though a space;

Use Wet Wipes or household cleaner wipes on door knobs and nearby woodwork.
It is not much work. I am not recommending washing the baseboards.

The wipes make it so easy.
Then you and others are safer from harm.

I was ill and that is what I am doing.
I am still weak. I don't want to work hard.
Disposable, prepackaged wipes make it so easy.

Take one as you move though the space.
What you touch gets wiped down.

When I feel well enough, It is actually a pleasure for me.
Wiping the illness away leaving a clean surface.

Not all illnesses are so easy to get rid of.
Those of us that are confirmed hand washers make stupid mistakes, too.

I knew a man that walked in a city BareFoot.
Not because he had to. It was a Religion Thing.

He got Coodies, too.
Hands and feet have a lot in common.

Some people have both hand washing and foot washing inside their Religion.
You might be surprised how many do. It seem to be part of My Religion.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:40 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
Adam H wrote:I'm questioning why the cdc isn't making it clear that we should.

They are making it clear, though, except perhaps to speakers of the alleged* dialects you're familiar with where "using the toilet" doesn't include urinating. (And even then, only to speakers of those dialects that are so isolated from the rest of the English-speaking world that they can't figure out what the CDC means there.)

* I say alleged because I still don't believe any such dialects exist. When you pee at home, do you pee into a toilet? Is this, in fact, the primary way using the toilet? Does the CDC say to wash your hands after doing that? Is there any difference between peeing into a toilet and peeing into a urinal, as far as personal hygiene is concerned? (I'd say yes: using a urinal is more likely to result in splashback onto your hands and is therefore dirtier than using a standard toilet.)
We are in agreement, then. Except for the footnote.

I've lived in Detroit, Atlanta, Nashville, and Houston, and when I say toilet I mean toilet, not urinal. The two are different things in my apparently strange and isolated dialect.

@mobius: If my mom tells me to stop touching my sister, then OF COURSE I'm going to stick my hands all up near her face and say "I'm not touching her!" It's the oldest trick in the book! And peeing isn't cleaner than cooking. It's less messy and you don't have to stick your hands in your mouth.
-Adam

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:44 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:I've lived in Detroit, Atlanta, Nashville, and Houston, and when I say toilet I mean toilet, not urinal. The two are different things in my apparently strange and isolated dialect.
I still stand by the footnote, because the only way urinal use can logically be exempted from the CDC's guidelines is if urination is, because if anything using a urinal is less hygienic than peeing into a toilet. And even if "toilet" in isolation doesn't include urinals, "after using the toilet" definitely includes after urinating, regardless of the receptacle urinated into.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Whizbang » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:04 pm UTC

Also, splashback. You can't pee into anything that doesn't cause a little bit of splashback. Urine may be mostly clean coming out, but after bouncing off a surface that has been soaked in urine from many different people, not to mention airborne fecal matter that collects there as well?

Also, what about all those times you picked your nose, touched your keyboard, ran your hand down a banister/railing, scratched your butt, used someone else's desk phone, etc.? Don't you want to wash all that transferred bacteria off at some point? Isn't the restroom a convenient time and place to do so?

That said, I have no problems eating food that has dropped on the floor, depending on the stickiness of the food and floor. I am more than happy to eat food past its expiration date, as long as it doesn't smell bad. And I may not wash out my coffee mug at my desk on a daily basis. So maybe my recommendation to wash your hands after peeing is a bit hypocritical.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:05 pm UTC

Whizbang wrote:Also, splashback. You can't pee into anything that doesn't cause a little bit of splashback.
Yeah, that's why I think that, if anything, peeing into a urinal is dirtier than peeing into a toilet.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
EMTP
Posts: 1556
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:39 pm UTC
Location: Elbow deep in (mostly) other people's blood.

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby EMTP » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:13 pm UTC

Urine from a healthy individual is sterile when it leaves the body.
On a healthy individual penis skin is skin like any other skin.


Not quite. It's a warmer, more moist area of skin, which are ideal conditions for bacterial growth.
"Reasonable – that is, human – men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."
-- Alan Watts, "The Way of Zen"

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Whizbang » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:17 pm UTC

I thought that the genitals actually were slightly cooler than the rest of the body, to promote healthier semen production. Or is that only the testicles? And maybe being inside underwear and pants kind of negates the affect of hanging genitals anyway?

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby morriswalters » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:59 pm UTC

Splash back? Really? This topic has gone places I never would have imagined.

The CDC could write the best prose that you can write, and someone will misunderstand it.

Most men can't seem to hit the hole anyway, be it a urinal or a toilet. One might even come to believe that is why urinals were invented. The drizzle all over the place. If you don't believe this, ask your wife. If this bothers you, consider what happens in your pants when you pass gas..

Public spaces are dirty. Wear gloves and masks if that bothers you.

All this is making me feel like I shouldn't go out. Germs! /shiver

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:08 pm UTC

Why is splashback a surprising place for a thread about bathroom cleanliness to go?
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Azrael » Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:30 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:... and when I say toilet I mean toilet, not urinal.

That's twice now you're directly avoided answering the question that upends your reasoning (gee, I wonder why?): When you pee at home, do you do it in a toilet? Congrats, that's "using the toilet". And per the CDC's guidelines, you should wash.

What's different at a urinal?

@mobius: If my mom tells me to stop touching my sister, then OF COURSE I'm going to stick my hands all up near her face and say "I'm not touching her!" It's the oldest trick in the book!

Ok, do you recognize that you're applying that same boundary-testing pedantry (never mind the basic immaturity) to this particular issue? Just like sticking your hands in your sister's face, you aren't proving a faulty communication. You certainly don't prove yourself correct by acting that way.

As best I can tell you're trying to use an (allegedly) unclear communication to prove that the CDC doesn't think men need to wash their hands after peeing. Is that really what you're after -- some form of authoritative backing of your position? Tell you what, merely exploiting the language of that site isn't ever going to give any inscrutable legitimacy to your position. So back up a step: Go find another reputable or meaningful source that explicitly agrees with you. Go ahead. Try.

On the whole, I get it: You've made up your mind that you don't need to wash after peeing. Tons of other guys (maybe even most?) agree with you. But the CDC doesn't. Be honest enough about your ability to make your own decisions that you don't have to jump through hoops to pretend (more or less) that their wording gives you a free pass.

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby morriswalters » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:20 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Why is splashback a surprising place for a thread about bathroom cleanliness to go?
Oh, I don't know. I struck me as trivial. More so since the thread is about handwashing. In the relative scheme of things, it is a problem that fixture manufactures have reduced to extremely low levels. Assuming that whoever keeps the urinals clean does his/her job. It might be more productive to worry that the trap doesn't clear completely. And that they are very difficult to keep sanitary.

Would you like to discuss the physics of it? Obviously just the movement of urine through the atmosphere humidifies the room. Urinals themselves are slow flow devices, much more so than commodes. So splash back from the flush isn't too much of a factor. I suppose the too direct of an angle could cause problem. But my experience is that the angle is downward. So the bulk of the splash goes into the basin. The dribble factor is an issue. Which is why at some points in time they have placed mats to keep the floor from being stained and why public toilets use OSHA seats. Of course some guys have issues about exposing themselves in public, I believe it is called a shy bladder, so they might stand too close. There is of course the things you shed besides urine. Pubic hair for one. And all of this assumes that everyone flushes, they don't.

And because I am bored I will risk the wrath of any women who read this to tell you that women's bathrooms on average generate more trash, and more problems for the people who have to keep them sanitary. Mainly, I suppose, because they have more tasks that they have to do. And I have never seen a urinal in one. Mens public bathrooms are on the average, smellier. Mostly urine. Don't touch the bottoms of your shoes. I have a friend who won't use some public bathrooms, a predilection I share unless necessity drives it. But if I have to, I wash my hands, and after reading this thread I might start carrying 200 proof alcohol in a small bottle.

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:30 am UTC

Why would women be angry at you for pointing out the trivially obvious fact that pads and tampons create more trash in women's restrooms than men's?
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

schapel
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:33 am UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby schapel » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:17 am UTC

Azrael wrote:When you pee at home, do you do it in a toilet? Congrats, that's "using the toilet". And per the CDC's guidelines, you should wash.

What's different at a urinal?

Maybe you don't know this, but most modern urinals flush automatically. It's common for me to enter a public restroom and never touch anything except the floor with the soles of my shoes and opening the door with my hand when I leave. The thing I'm thinking about when I leave the restroom is not that I need to wash my hands, but that I'd like to wash the soles of my shoes. Bleah!

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Azrael » Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:04 pm UTC

schapel wrote:It's common for me to enter a public restroom and never touch anything except the floor with the soles of my shoes and opening the door with my hand when I leave.

I am in awe of your ability to remove your penis from your pants, point it at the urinal, take a piss, and put it away without ever touching it. You should feel very proud. This is not a feat I've ever been able to successfully execute.

Point taken that a urinal is slightly different from a toilet because with a toilet you usually touch a lid/seat and flush handle. So let me ask the relevant follow up: For people who have decided that they don't need to wash their hands after using a urinal, do you wash your hands after you pee in a toilet? How about urinals where there's still a handle? I'm thinking the device-touching distinction you're creating here is moot -- or a distraction at best. People who don't wash for urinals don't wash whenever they pee, regardless of the device used.

However, the reasons behind washing your hands after using the restroom are not heavily reliant on the cleanliness or number of the associated hard surfaces (seats, handles, buttons, knobs, doors) you might touch. You wash 'cause you have been handling your junk, and doing so in the presence of free flowing (and partially aerosol) urine. You wash your hands so the next thing you touch outside the restroom isn't made and unwilling guest to that bacteria party.

User avatar
Diemo
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Diemo » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:10 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Image

Spoiled for large and redundant.

This seems appropiate. (SMBC but most people know that)
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--Douglas Adams

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Whizbang » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:13 pm UTC

Diemo wrote:http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100901.gif

This seems appropiate. (SMBC but most people know that)


viewtopic.php?p=3618546#p3618546

User avatar
Diemo
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Diemo » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:22 pm UTC

Oops. Nevermind, carry on.
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
--Douglas Adams

KrytenKoro
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby KrytenKoro » Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:45 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:... and when I say toilet I mean toilet, not urinal.

I've been to most of those places too, and when the people say "toilet", they mean "commode for putting your bodily waste into", without being pedantic about whether it's an outhouse or a urinal or a toilet or a hole in the ground.

I feel like you're making s*** up.

Azrael wrote:
schapel wrote:It's common for me to enter a public restroom and never touch anything except the floor with the soles of my shoes and opening the door with my hand when I leave.

I am in awe of your ability to remove your penis from your pants, point it at the urinal, take a piss, and put it away without ever touching it. You should feel very proud. This is not a feat I've ever been able to successfully execute.

Point taken that a urinal is slightly different from a toilet because with a toilet you usually touch a lid/seat and flush handle. So let me ask the relevant follow up: For people who have decided that they don't need to wash their hands after using a urinal, do you wash your hands after you pee in a toilet? How about urinals where there's still a handle? I'm thinking the device-touching distinction you're creating here is moot -- or a distraction at best. People who don't wash for urinals don't wash whenever they pee, regardless of the device used.

Super-irrelevant, definitely, unless schapel is saying that when he does use a toilet, he washes down his arse and back where they touched the furnishings.
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:12 pm UTC

Azrael wrote:
Adam H wrote:... and when I say toilet I mean toilet, not urinal.

That's twice now you're directly avoided answering the question that upends your reasoning (gee, I wonder why?): When you pee at home, do you do it in a toilet? Congrats, that's "using the toilet". And per the CDC's guidelines, you should wash.

What's different at a urinal?

@mobius: If my mom tells me to stop touching my sister, then OF COURSE I'm going to stick my hands all up near her face and say "I'm not touching her!" It's the oldest trick in the book!

Ok, do you recognize that you're applying that same boundary-testing pedantry (never mind the basic immaturity) to this particular issue? Just like sticking your hands in your sister's face, you aren't proving a faulty communication. You certainly don't prove yourself correct by acting that way.

As best I can tell you're trying to use an (allegedly) unclear communication to prove that the CDC doesn't think men need to wash their hands after peeing. Is that really what you're after -- some form of authoritative backing of your position? Tell you what, merely exploiting the language of that site isn't ever going to give any inscrutable legitimacy to your position. So back up a step: Go find another reputable or meaningful source that explicitly agrees with you. Go ahead. Try.

On the whole, I get it: You've made up your mind that you don't need to wash after peeing. Tons of other guys (maybe even most?) agree with you. But the CDC doesn't. Be honest enough about your ability to make your own decisions that you don't have to jump through hoops to pretend (more or less) that their wording gives you a free pass.

Nope you don't get it at all. Of course I wash my hands after peeing, every time, because I know I need to. The question is, why was the cdc so stupid as to not spell it out for everyone? Ibviously this is somewhat debatable- that's twice now that someone linked to that comic after all. And you agree that lots of guys have made up their minds as well. All the more reason to be crystal clear: "after usin the toilet, including urinals." How hard is that??

The people that need to know that washing their hands after peeing is mandatory tend to be the stupider ones, yes? So yes, the cdc's guidelines may be interpreted correctly if you know how to spell the word "logically", but then you don't need the cdc to tell you how to take care of yourself. The people who need to know this inormation are the ones that can't follow your logic about how using a toilet and a urinal are the same.

I've avoided the first question because I don't get your point. Do you really not know what is different between using a urinal and a toilet? Ithere are lots of differences. don't know exactly what is different as it pertains to my personal hygiene, but the cdc must know. So I'll take their word or it. Oh wait, they didn't bother to tell me. Assholes.
-Adam

User avatar
gmalivuk
GNU Terry Pratchett
Posts: 26818
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
Location: Here and There
Contact:

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:19 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Except, even those illiterate yokels you think need it spelled out for them probably understand it properly, they just choose not to wash.

You're the only one dumb enough not to get what the CDC means.
Unless stated otherwise, I do not care whether a statement, by itself, constitutes a persuasive political argument. I care whether it's true.
---
If this post has math that doesn't work for you, use TeX the World for Firefox or Chrome

(he/him/his)

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Diadem » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:21 pm UTC

I'm much more worried about the CDCs failure to include "Before and after sex" on their list.

I wonder if they just forgot, or if they are afraid that if they include that people will think washing your hands protects against STDs.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Whizbang
The Best Reporter
Posts: 2238
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:50 pm UTC
Location: New Hampshire, USA

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Whizbang » Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:30 pm UTC

Probably because you'd have to define "sex". Even ol' Pres. Clinton had trouble with that one.

User avatar
Adam H
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:36 pm UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Adam H » Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:46 pm UTC

Spoiler:
gmalivuk wrote:Except, even those illiterate yokels you think need it spelled out for them probably understand it properly, they just choose not to wash.

You're the only one dumb enough not to get what the CDC means.
You don't honestly believe anyone on this forum is the dumbest person in the world. Fuck off.


That's enough of this little exchange, from both directions.

- Az
-Adam

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby Azrael » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:44 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:The people who need to know this inormation are the ones that can't follow your logic about how using a toilet and a urinal are the same.

...

I've avoided the first question because I don't get your point. Do you really not know what is different between using a urinal and a toilet? Ithere are lots of differences. don't know exactly what is different as it pertains to my personal hygiene, but the cdc must know. So I'll take their word or it. Oh wait, they didn't bother to tell me. Assholes.

I know the difference. You seem to as well in that first line, but then claim not to in the second. So that's a bit odd, but whatever. By asking the question about the difference between the two, I'm trying to get you to engage your brain and think about how they relate to your hygiene. You've tried relying on the CDC and can't grok their meaning, so put the pieces together for yourself -- and I'm a bit unsure why you're so insistent that it's someone else's duty to do so for you.

For someone with a penis, using a toilet to urinate standing up and using a urinal to urinate (also clearly standing up) are functionally equivalent -- in both cases you unzip, grab ahold, aim, piss, shake and repackage. That's why using a urinal falls into the category of "using the toilet". That's why it's easy to deduce that the CDC wants you to wash after using the urinal.

Why didn't they say "after using the toilet or urinal"? Probably because they didn't expect that someone could be legitimately confused. And if they are, there's more than enough context for them to figure it out. Also, I expect that if they were inclined to switch wording, they'd just say "restroom" being as urinals aren't a concern for much more than 50% of bathroom trips.

User avatar
mobiusstripsearch
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:21 am UTC

Re: Washing hands after using bathroom

Postby mobiusstripsearch » Thu Jul 10, 2014 4:58 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:I'm much more worried about the CDCs failure to include "Before and after sex" on their list.

I wonder if they just forgot, or if they are afraid that if they include that people will think washing your hands protects against STDs.


Then the problem arises that if the two (or more?) of you don't wash your hands roughly simultaneously, you're still vectors for each other. (At what point do you do this -- after you've smeared your dirty hands all over your clothes putting them back on?

This sounds like an interesting logistics problem I don't want to ever think too deeply about.
"The inward skies of man will accompany him across any void upon which he ventures and will be with him to the end of time." -- Loren Eiseley


Return to “Serious Business”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests