doogly wrote:Are you working in the reals, or Z_3? These are both perfectly cromulent frameworks and it is a subjective choice which one you want to work in.
You can certainly choose whether you want to talk about the integers or about congruence classes of the integers, or whether you want to use "+" to refer to addition modulo 3 or just ordinary addition. That's not the same thing as choosing, given that you are talking about one thing or another, what will be true of it.
doogly wrote:Proof theory in math is very clear on things only being true within the context of some formal system.
No, this is mistaken. Things are true within some model
, a universe of discourse and interpretation of non-logical symbols. In other words, a formalization of what I just said about the difference between Z and Z_3. Formal systems themselves are said to be sound
relative to some model - an absurdity if the truth of a system's theorems were simply a matter of their derivability in the system.
doogly wrote:Because that is what objective means. It cannot be a subjective matter whether morality is objective or subjective.
My question is how you reconcile this claim with what you say about the implications of physicalism. Moral and mathematical matters are supposed to be non-physical in a such a way that they cannot be objective. What principle licenses this inference without also licensing the inference that meta-ethical matters cannot be objective?
doogly wrote:Do you seriously believe there is some objective morality?
Is it seriously this hard for you to imagine someone disagreeing with you about this?
Tyndmyr wrote:Ah, it can't be objective. Because it's been defined that way. Because it's not about arbitrary definitions.
How on earth are you getting this out of what I've been saying? I think that morality is objective, but I think that you are confused about what people are talking about when they talk about whether morality is objective.Morality
has not been defined as being objective or subjective. The question of whether morality is objective
has been defined not to be the question of whether there are objective facts about happiness or survival or whatever.