Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
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- ivnja
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
Are legacy admissions a thing at public universities? I don't recall whether there was a question about that on the application for the state university I graduated from.
From a legal/"should the schools be compelled to stop" standpoint, I support private colleges and universities being allowed to do whatever they want with legacies and with affirmative action / overall admissions decisions, but personally I'm not a fan of the practice of giving legacy students preference.
From a legal/"should the schools be compelled to stop" standpoint, I support private colleges and universities being allowed to do whatever they want with legacies and with affirmative action / overall admissions decisions, but personally I'm not a fan of the practice of giving legacy students preference.
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
They did ask abour my parents' education on the applications, and I went to public university too.
But yes, I'm against legacies being granted anything more than a superficial preference, but I had no idea legacies were a quarter of enrollees rather than some tiny fraction. That's more of a threat to me than affirmative action ever could be... if I didn't have Ivy and Ivy equivalent family.
But yes, I'm against legacies being granted anything more than a superficial preference, but I had no idea legacies were a quarter of enrollees rather than some tiny fraction. That's more of a threat to me than affirmative action ever could be... if I didn't have Ivy and Ivy equivalent family.
- gmalivuk
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
The (public) University of Michigan definitely had legacy points on the same admissions policy that went to SCOTUS.
Also points for being from Michigan and even more for being from an underrepresented county in Michigan.
Also points for being from Michigan and even more for being from an underrepresented county in Michigan.
- ivnja
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
gmalivuk wrote:Also points for being from Michigan
This part I'm so definitely for. Students shouldn't get beaten out for their own state universities by academically equivalent out-of-staters, even if it does get the school more tuition money.
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
I mean, I'm for the race-based affirmative action, too, but it is another thing that goes against the supposed ideal of admitting people based on academic performance alone.
- CorruptUser
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
ivnja wrote:gmalivuk wrote:Also points for being from Michigan
This part I'm so definitely for. Students shouldn't get beaten out for their own state universities by academically equivalent out-of-staters, even if it does get the school more tuition money.
What about out-of-country-ers? Not only does the state get more money, but it reduces the trade deficit while exporting your culture, creates connections with the children of foreign elites, and gives the rest of the world a massive incentive not to bomb your country? And it's not like, long term, there's any real maximum size to the university system. I'm probably one of the more jingoist and xenophobic bastards on here, but even I am wholeheartedly in favor of expanding student visas.
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
Fairly certain most schools have an entirely separate admissions process and a number of spots for non-US residents vs. US residents.CorruptUser wrote:What about out-of-country-ers? Not only does the state get more money, but it reduces the trade deficit while exporting your culture, creates connections with the children of foreign elites, and gives the rest of the world a massive incentive not to bomb your country? And it's not like, long term, there's any real maximum size to the university system. I'm probably one of the more jingoist and xenophobic bastards on here, but even I am wholeheartedly in favor of expanding student visas.
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- CorruptUser
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
Yeah and I think it should be expanded and heavily promoted to attract more students and make it easier for graduates to acquire permanent residency, in spite of me otherwise being slightly on the anti-immigrant side of the fence.
Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
CorruptUser wrote:Yeah and I think it should be expanded and heavily promoted to attract more students and make it easier for graduates to acquire permanent residency, in spite of me otherwise being slightly on the anti-immigrant side of the fence.
There are other benefits of immigration. Like replacing slow inefficient old dying people with young people with a healthy fear of the law. That labor shortage is just gonna get worse.
- CorruptUser
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
sardia wrote:CorruptUser wrote:Yeah and I think it should be expanded and heavily promoted to attract more students and make it easier for graduates to acquire permanent residency, in spite of me otherwise being slightly on the anti-immigrant side of the fence.
There are other benefits of immigration. Like replacing slow inefficient old dying people with young people with a healthy fear of the law. That labor shortage is just gonna get worse.
That argument always irked me. Western countries aren't having enough kids because people are deciding there isn't enough money and resources to have enough kids, and solving the problem with immigration squeezes people even further and... didn't we have this argument? I feel like I had this argument.
Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
I don't understand. Is your concern that the immigrants will consume more than before they immigrated, thus reducing total world resources?
It seems to me that all of the problems with unrestricted immigration are ultimately caused by immigration laws increasing inequality, and the people who benefit from inequality don't want to fix problems that they benefit from.
It seems to me that all of the problems with unrestricted immigration are ultimately caused by immigration laws increasing inequality, and the people who benefit from inequality don't want to fix problems that they benefit from.
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
We have had this argument before, the premise and the studies haven't changed very much.
http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpin ... rdID=23550
Spoilered since we already discussed all the benefits. The key points you care about is the negative effects new immigrants have. They negatively affect prior immigrants and native born highschool dropouts(or anyone else who shares qualities similar to low skilled immigrants). I mostly see the negatives at the state and local level (which causes pain as they either cut services are raise taxes) to natives and the reduced hours of native workers. This negative effect is mirrored around age 60, as the natives start demanding more than they pay in taxes compared to immigrants.
There's definitely pain being felt by natives here. Mostly in the local/state levels of government affecting how services are distributed and paid for.
http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpin ... rdID=23550
Spoiler:
There's definitely pain being felt by natives here. Mostly in the local/state levels of government affecting how services are distributed and paid for.
Last edited by sardia on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:07 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
- CorruptUser
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
So basically the takeaway is that highly skilled immigrants are overwhelming a net good for the country, but low skilled immigrants are a mixed bag.
Basically, student visas and the H1B (if fixed) are overwhelmingly a net good and should be expanded, but we should be wary about unskilled/illegal immigration?
Basically, student visas and the H1B (if fixed) are overwhelmingly a net good and should be expanded, but we should be wary about unskilled/illegal immigration?
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
This is a massive understatement.There's definitely pain being felt by natives here. Mostly in the local/state levels of government affecting how services are distributed and paid for.
Oh yeah, and this is related to race, how?
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
morriswalters wrote:This is a massive understatement.There's definitely pain being felt by natives here. Mostly in the local/state levels of government affecting how services are distributed and paid for.
Oh yeah, and this is related to race, how?
Mostly in that immigrants into a country are almost never the same ethnicity as the majority of people already in the country, and so you end up with ethnic tensions?
- eran_rathan
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
CorruptUser wrote:So basically the takeaway is that highly skilled immigrants are overwhelming a net good for the country, but low skilled immigrants are a mixed bag.
Basically, student visas and the H1B (if fixed) are overwhelmingly a net good and should be expanded, but we should be wary about unskilled/illegal immigration?
I don't have the wherewithal to check right now, but I was under the impression that a majority of undocumented immigrants to the US were folks who overstayed their legal visas, yes?
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- CorruptUser
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
Technically 0%, since undocumented, not illegal. Hate the newspeak. 40% are on overstayed visas, yes, but there's quite a bit of difference between someone whose visa wasn't renewed and someone who was never even screened in the first place.
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Re: Let's talk about race, 2017 edition
Right.CorruptUser wrote:morriswalters wrote:Mostly in that immigrants into a country are almost never the same ethnicity as the majority of people already in the country, and so you end up with ethnic tensions?
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