So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

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Are you voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Yes
52
31%
No
91
54%
No, I'm a neocon
5
3%
Yes, and I coded the voting machine; expect a landslide
20
12%
 
Total votes: 168

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So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby TechnoGuyRob » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:52 am UTC

Anyone?
Last edited by TechnoGuyRob on Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:07 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul?

Postby Infornographer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:01 am UTC

Voting for the Ronpaul would take away votes from the more liberal members of the Republican ticket who actually stand a chance at becoming the next President. Essentially, I feel voting for Paul for President would have the same effect as voting for Kinky for governor of Texas this last term. I can understand and appreciate why someone could agree with his political views and attitudes, but do not know what they wish to accomplish by voting for him (as it almost assuredly won't get him the Presidency).
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul?

Postby Economica » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:03 am UTC

In the primary? Perhaps, because he's the best of a bad lot. He's marginally better than the other candidates, who are on the whole uninspiring, authoritarian, and generally useless. IMO.

In the regular election? He won't get that far.


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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul?

Postby EvanED » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:11 am UTC

Economica wrote:In the primary? Perhaps, because he's the best of a bad lot. He's marginally better than the other candidates, who are on the whole uninspiring, authoritarian, and generally useless.

"Useless" is too kind. "Actively harmful" is more along the right line...

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby TamTam » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:28 am UTC

The responses to this topic seem rather ignorant. There are certainly not any Republican candidates more liberal than the Ronpaul. He's the only candidate willing to pull out of the war right away, even compared to the Democratic ballot. Because Hilary and Obama's promise to pull out in 20freaking13 means a lot.

He's a great candidate because he's not someone who's going to let personal feelings get in the way of political decisions. Yeah, he's against abortion, but he'll defend with his life your right to choose. He's out to rewrite foreign policy and restore our sovereignty. Fix things that give the government too much power, like the "Patriot" Act and No Child Left Behind.

Personally, I like my freedom, and I think the Ronpaul's one of the few candidates willing to protect that.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Matthias » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:37 am UTC

I won't presume to know whether he'll be chosen as the Republican candidate; I don't really follow politics. I will, however say this about voting for unlikely candidates: the votes don't go to waste.

Sure, it's unlikely that the person will be elected (otherwise they wouldn't be unlikely candidates!), but the fact that people are voting for them sends a message to whoever does get elected. It lets the people on Capitol Hill know the sorts of ideas people would like to see put into play, so maybe those ideas get adopted. Even if your favored runner doesn't win, you might still see some policies adopted that might not otherwise be considered if you hadn't voted the way you had.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Infornographer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:46 am UTC

TamTam wrote:The responses to this topic seem rather ignorant. There are certainly not any Republican candidates more liberal than the Ronpaul. He's the only candidate willing to pull out of the war right away, even compared to the Democratic ballot. Because Hilary and Obama's promise to pull out in 20freaking13 means a lot.


When I said "more liberal" I did not mean "more liberal than the Ronpaul." I meant the more liberal Republican candidates (as opposed to the more conservative candidates). Consider this: the people who would vote for Paul likely would also vote for the slightly-less-liberal Republican candidates. By voting for Paul, they deny these people votes. Paul will not make it past the primaries, and those stolen votes will land a more conservative Republican on the primary ticket. Exactly what happened in the Texas government election. By voting for Paul, you will not get Paul as a President, you'll just get someone more conservative on the ticket.

TamTam wrote:He's a great candidate because he's not someone who's going to let personal feelings get in the way of political decisions. Yeah, he's against abortion, but he'll defend with his life your right to choose. He's out to rewrite foreign policy and restore our sovereignty. Fix things that give the government too much power, like the "Patriot" Act and No Child Left Behind.


I agree with many of Paul's personal views and think much of his character. Having said that, I would never vote for him (for precisely the reason above). Then again, I had to live through the vote in Texas where independent/libertarian Friedman cost the state a Democratic governor.

TamTam wrote:Personally, I like my freedom, and I think the Ronpaul's one of the few candidates willing to protect that.

I like your freedom, too. I do not like the lack of freedom imposed by the American voting system, an archaic voting system which actually, on more than one occasion, keeps you from voting for your first choice.

Matthias wrote:Sure, it's unlikely that the person will be elected (otherwise they wouldn't be unlikely candidates!), but the fact that people are voting for them sends a message to whoever does get elected. It lets the people on Capitol Hill know the sorts of ideas people would like to see put into play, so maybe those ideas get adopted. Even if your favored runner doesn't win, you might still see some policies adopted that might not otherwise be considered if you hadn't voted the way you had.


A message that they will promptly ignore. Your last sentence demonstrates an optimism towards the government that on some level, I wished I possessed, yet on another, find highly naive. I do not mean this in any insulting form, but you mentioned yourself you do not follow politics. Rarely ever does any elected official recognize a polarized vote as a responsibility for the voters. Rather, they tend to see the fact that they won as a mandate that they should execute their preconceived plans exactly as initially constructed.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Matthias » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:58 am UTC

It's not optimism, it's pragmatism. The number one goal of any elected official is to get re-elected the following term, so it is in their best interest to adopt some of the policies of similar candidates, who might otherwise leech votes from them and enable the election of a rival.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:27 am UTC

I would if I was American.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul?

Postby Rysto » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:36 am UTC

EvanED wrote:"Useless" is too kind. "Actively harmful" is more along the right line...

And putting the US back on the Gold Standard wouldn't qualify as actively harmful?

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby MikeBabaguh » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:51 am UTC

I suppose if I had to vote Republican and really, really wanted the war to end, I'd vote for him. Afterwards I'd regret it when I realized that he was removing what little governmental regulation of corporations we had left.

I'm voting for Edwards. He's squeaky clean ($400 haircut is the worst of his evilness) and has some great ideas.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Axman » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:19 am UTC

Huh. No option for "My district is gerrymandered and my right to vote in the primaries has been unconstitutionally revoked."

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:46 am UTC

Axman wrote:Huh. No option for "My district is gerrymandered and my right to vote in the primaries has been unconstitutionally revoked."


Explanation for the Non-American please :3.

Edit: I know what constitutional rights are.. just not the first part, and how that can actually happen.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Solt » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:26 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
Axman wrote:Huh. No option for "My district is gerrymandered and my right to vote in the primaries has been unconstitutionally revoked."


Explanation for the Non-American please :3.

Edit: I know what constitutional rights are.. just not the first part, and how that can actually happen.


Gerrymandering refers to the redrawing of district lines to make sure that x district will always elect a member of y party. Redrawing districts is a good practice to keep up with changing population distributions (for example, to make sure one district doesn't contain 1,000 people while the one next door contains 2 million or something ridiculous like that which can result from moving populations). However, the political party in power often uses the opportunity to their advantage by, for example, drawing a district to include a lot of rich neighborhoods (republican) and just enough poor neighborhoods (democrat) to reduce democratic power in another district but make their vote essentially useless in the given district.

Edit: I would like to vote Republican but when every single candidate denies, point blank, that evolution did not happen and that they believe in the creation story despite the scientific evidence, it makes me severely question their capability to make correct decisions. Unless they are exceptional candidates otherwise, I won't vote for a religious Republican. I do like the Ronpaul though, if he adopted a few slightly more mainstream views.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Axman » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:39 am UTC

Gerrymandering is an American term for the one electoral process that precedes any republic: fucking with the vote.

Wikipedia wrote:"Gerrymander" is used both as a verb meaning "to divide into political units to give special advantages to one group" as well as a noun describing the resulting electoral geography. Elbridge Gerry's actual name is pronounced with an initial /g/ (a hard G), but the "jerry" pronunciation is now the normal pronunciation.[3]

Gerrymandering may be used to advantage or disadvantage particular constituents, such as members of a racial, linguistic, religious or class group, often in the favor of ruling incumbents or a specific political party. Although all electoral systems that use multiple districts as a basis for determining representation are susceptible to gerrymandering to various degrees, governments using single winner voting systems are the most vulnerable.


Most notably, it's drawing voting districts, each of equal value in a republic, by political boundaries, not geographical. This forces one group into a larger or smaller district, to decrease or increase the likelihood that their votes will sway part of an election.

So let's say you hate black people, but there's enough in one district to win a particular vote. So you cut the voting district lines so that there're enough white people in the black district to make the vote white. Your district is still all-white, and now you have two white-voting districts. Of course, race is a piss-poor example, but it'll do. And it's been done.

...

OK, the last big election in Denver crashed. I mean, literally, the VPN servers that the polls used were overloaded, and while the voting servers were fine, it's because no one got the chance to vote. The polls closed and hundreds of people were ushered away at every poll in the city.

My particular town council passed this measure, conveniently after tens of thousands were denied their vote, that anyone who declined to vote in the last election would not be invited to vote at the next poll. This doesn't affect Federal votes, because that would, uh, get met with resistance. And it's a completely different group of people handling things.

Now here's where the gerrymandering comes in: the council meetings are closed, and only members are allowed to vote. In order to be a member, you have to a) own residential property in the district, and b) have made residence at that property for no less than 20 years. So even if I, on my writer's salary no less, owned a home in a particularly affluent district, having bought it on my 18th birthday and lived there every day thereafter, would still not be allowed to participate.

So, until the next Presidential election, I will be unable to participate in local politics, as I have been for the past year. Even then, I won't be notified by mail of my polling times and locations, I have to find them on my own. To make matters worse, if some last-minute dinky little measure comes up with the council, and they open it to the "public" and I fail to hear about it, I get taken off the voting list.

My best hope is that the EU figures out a way to make electronic voting cheap and successful, and an order of magnitude more popular, that the US is forced to adopt it. Although I highly doubt that the EU is any more interested in a universal voting system than the US is.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Solt » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:10 am UTC

Axman wrote:OK, the last big election in Denver crashed. I mean, literally, the VPN servers that the polls used were overloaded, and while the voting servers were fine, it's because no one got the chance to vote. The polls closed and hundreds of people were ushered away at every poll in the city.

My particular town council passed this measure, conveniently after tens of thousands were denied their vote, that anyone who declined to vote in the last election would not be invited to vote at the next poll. This doesn't affect Federal votes, because that would, uh, get met with resistance. And it's a completely different group of people handling things.

Now here's where the gerrymandering comes in: the council meetings are closed, and only members are allowed to vote. In order to be a member, you have to a) own residential property in the district, and b) have made residence at that property for no less than 20 years. So even if I, on my writer's salary no less, owned a home in a particularly affluent district, having bought it on my 18th birthday and lived there every day thereafter, would still not be allowed to participate.

So, until the next Presidential election, I will be unable to participate in local politics, as I have been for the past year. Even then, I won't be notified by mail of my polling times and locations, I have to find them on my own. To make matters worse, if some last-minute dinky little measure comes up with the council, and they open it to the "public" and I fail to hear about it, I get taken off the voting list.

My best hope is that the EU figures out a way to make electronic voting cheap and successful, and an order of magnitude more popular, that the US is forced to adopt it. Although I highly doubt that the EU is any more interested in a universal voting system than the US is.


Either you are really misunderstanding/exaggerating things or you've got an important lawsuit on your hands. Seriously, creating barriers to voting like that is really illegal and you should talk to a lawyer.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby ptveite » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:57 am UTC

For the record, he wants to overturn Roe v. Wade and let the states decide the legality of abortion. I love how nobody has mentioned that, while in theory some of his policies sound great, if we actually did everything on his platform: withdraw from the UN and NATO, abolish the federal income tax and the federal reserve, eliminate half the agencies of the federal government, and return to the gold standard, (even though he is anti-big government and a foreign policy isolationist, I saw nothing about decreasing the size or spending on the US military, which is like 30% of government expenditures) the US economy would almost certainly have a meltdown. Seriously, I respect the guy's ideals, and he's a very coherent and well-spoken individual, but how can you expect to be treated as a serious candidate when you don't seem to think of yourself as a serious candidate? This is like the type of shit that Denny Kucinich spits out every election.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Umlaut » Mon Oct 15, 2007 1:17 pm UTC

I am voting for the good doctor not specifically because I think he can/will win, but because voting for him lets people know that there is one more person who supports the policies of that candidate. Voting for a loser isn't throwing your vote away, politicians see how people vote and make policy decisions based on that. If a lot of people vote for a particular type of candidate, there are going to be more candidates like that during the next election cycle.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul?

Postby EvanED » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:37 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:
EvanED wrote:"Useless" is too kind. "Actively harmful" is more along the right line...

And putting the US back on the Gold Standard wouldn't qualify as actively harmful?

Sorry, I didn't intend to assert that Paul wouldn't be actively harmful. I apologize for the oversight.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby fjafjan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:37 pm UTC

I'll more or less let the the Ronpaul thread speak for itself.

To sum it up

His economic policies are crazy, not just the whole "let's get rid of most goverment because it's useless" and "let's get rid of income tax!" but also "hey gold standard that seems like a good idea!". Except it's retarded.
His stance on "moral" issues like gays and abortion are ("in my opinion") wrong and in the case of gays hypocritical (or outright offensive, you get to pick)
He has had close ties to racist movements and is usually very endorced by most racist organizations
His foreign policy is lunacy (leaving UN, NATO, etc)(and yes I know he has said some things other republicans never would dare, that deserves respect, that does not mean that he is good candidate)

I feel like there is something I am forgetting but overall that sums it up. So if I got to vote in the US I would definately not, and I think doing so is quite rediculously naive or foolish.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Rysto » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:44 pm UTC

fjafjan wrote:I feel like there is something I am forgetting but overall that sums it up.

He's a crazy ass-conspiracy theorist who believes in the NAFTA Superhighway?

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby zenten » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:45 pm UTC

I'm not voting for him.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Gadren » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:51 pm UTC

I'm not voting for him. He's the best of the Republicans, but that doesn't mean much. ;) I like social libertarianism, but his attitude of eliminating as much regulation as possible doesn't fit well with me -- his opposition to net neutrality, just because it's "regulation," makes as much sense as opposing laws against asbestos in the hopes that the free market will take care of it.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby fjafjan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:54 pm UTC

Rysto wrote:
fjafjan wrote:I feel like there is something I am forgetting but overall that sums it up.

He's a crazy ass-conspiracy theorist who believes in the NAFTA Superhighway?

I like the following quote from the PA boards

the Ronpaul 2008: Like Ten Thousand Times Crazier than You Initially Thought
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Economica » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:25 pm UTC

I guess I should expand on what I said earlier.

Dr. Paul has ideas and goals broadly in line with my own, however we diverge at key points that I cannot overlook.

First, his hard line on immigration, without providing for relaxed quotas and increased legal immigration.

Second, his fetish with the gold standard would cut the government's ability to influence the economy in half, and destroy any fast-acting policy option available to the government.

Third, he opposes Net Neutrality, which is bad enough to merit its own bullet point. ;)

Although I'd like to see the government share of GDP cut drastically, Dr. Paul isn't the way to do it. His economic policies, particularly regarding trade and immigration, just don't line up. He's better than most of the Republicans, but still not good enough to get my endorsement.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Axman » Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:54 pm UTC

Either you are really misunderstanding/exaggerating things or you've got an important lawsuit on your hands. Seriously, creating barriers to voting like that is really illegal and you should talk to a lawyer.


There's currently a request going through the Governor's office to forcefully revoke the extra session stuff, and the deal is going to the courts pending on the Governor's decision.

But picture things like this happening to you: where would you go? I mean, it's obvious that a lot of people are getting frustrated by this, but that the people who make these decisions...well in this particular part of town, between Washington Park, Capitol Hill, Governor's Park, and the Country Club, they're sort in charge of more than who gets to vote in the Primaries. Not just a matter of pointing at it and holding up a sign that says injustice.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby mosc » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:33 pm UTC

The thing I don't understand about the guy is why people think he's centrist or a "liberal republican" or "mildly Libertarian". The guy's a conservative on most issues and goes well past republican conservative into libertarian 'lunatic fringe' on economic issues.

No, I don't vote in the republican primary and even if I did (as a liberal) he wouldn't be in the top 5 of candidates I'd want. I can't even believe most republicans tolerate this guy.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby ptveite » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:41 pm UTC

So wait, for the 6 people who ARE voting for him, why? You keep saying that his values are "in-line with yours" but the only policy of his that anybody has actually supported is his Iraq policy. What other policies of his DO you agree with?

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby fjafjan » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:44 pm UTC

I think the really weak republican field helps him alot, I mean the two major candidates people are supposed to chose between are Rudy Gulliani who has some strange ideas about freedom, you've got Romney who is a Mormon and wants to double guantanamo. Peronsally Romney, seems like the better choice but since Paul speaks out on foreign policy and generally does not "go with the crowd" on some issues people like him. I mean imagine choosing between "Freedom is authority" Giuliani and "Let's get back to gold standard" Paul. The republican campaign machine will have to do something quite spectacular on this one.

(and with the risk of speaking for other people here I think they support his libertarian economic policies even if they don't support the gold standard bit (I hope)).

By "his values" they also typically mean his economic policies rather than what is typically referring to as "moral values".
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Infornographer » Mon Oct 15, 2007 11:29 pm UTC

I like that Paul has the integrity to realize when his own views should not affect the laws of the state, and that he opposes the war in Iraq. I like some of his ideals on economic libertarianism, but feel they represent just that: ideals. His views on isolationism and value of the free market over value of the individual citizen irk me. I definitely do not support the gold standard.

I guess I have jaded libertarian philosophies. Years ago, I would have probably (and impractically) supported and voted for Paul. I have since then come to think that the libertarian philosophy represents an elitist (not in the bad way) ideal that does not resemble reality, and cannot become reality at this point in time or in the coming decades.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby TechnoGuyRob » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:21 am UTC

the Ronpaul doesn't support a gold standard at all...

And most of what the digressors in this thread said were entirely or mostly inaccurate views. I suggest researching the only candidate who's gaining traction in the straw polls, monetary race, polls, etc.

Also, he doesn't support "abolishing" the IRS. He wants to phase it out slowly and its unconstitutional policies.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby e946 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:12 am UTC

TechnoGuyRob wrote:Also, he doesn't support "abolishing" the IRS. He wants to phase it out slowly and its unconstitutional policies.


I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, the 16th amendment was yelling too loudly.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Infornographer » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:32 am UTC

TechnoGuyRob wrote:the Ronpaul doesn't support a gold standard at all...


He supports dissolving the Federal Reserve and making gold and silver legal tender, tying the dollar to the value of gold once again.

TechnoGuyRob wrote:And most of what the digressors in this thread said were entirely or mostly inaccurate views. I suggest researching the only candidate who's gaining traction in the straw polls, monetary race, polls, etc.


He has only produced visible "traction" on the Internet. He has a greater (stronger?) Internet presence than many other candidates (especially other Republican candidates). Libertarians represent a a small, but vocal, group of people. All of this perceived traction remains tied to relatively few people outside of the Internet (in physical meatspace, where we allot votes). He has not made significant progress in any polls (in fact, he has fluctuated between 1% and 6% depending on the state, and that number has gone down in as many- if not more- states than it has gone up). He has only consistently performed well in the online polls following various Republican debates. Not surprising, given the earlier information. Franky, it surprises me that he has such a vocal Internet presence, given that he has also come out against Net Neutrality.

I, too, would like to make a suggestion: research every candidate thoroughly.

TechnoGuyRob wrote:Also, he doesn't support "abolishing" the IRS. He wants to phase it out slowly and its unconstitutional policies.

You have a rather odd definition of the word "abolish," there. Considering the official the Ronpaul website has an entire page dedicating to ending the IRS, I would say he definitely supports abolishing the IRS, "quickly," as his website puts it.

EDIT: On a side note, go post in the intro thread before people mistake you for a bot.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Vaniver » Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:59 pm UTC

I will vote for Paul in the primaries to send the message to the Republican Party that I prefer libertarians to neocons. If he wins the primary, I will vote for him because I prefer libertarians to Democrats.

Do I think he's a perfect candidate? No. It would be foolishness to expect one; the only candidate I can agree with 100% is myself. I think his power as president to enact the reforms he wants will be limited at best, and so the kookiness of a few of them doesn't worry me too much- people seem to forget that if Paul wins, he will have a Congress and Senate divided between largely big-government Democrats and largely big-government Republicans. There may be more limited-government Congress(wo)men and Senators elected in 2008 or 2010, but his primary power will be vetoing unconstitutional policies, which I believe that he will do consistently. And, really, that's all a president needs to do to get my approval.
Last edited by Vaniver on Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:13 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Griffin » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:15 pm UTC

My reasons are almost the same as Vanivers -

I don't care much about his stances that he, himself, won't be able to do much to enact as president... but he will STOP a hell of a lot of things I don't like, and the few things he can do as president (like pulling out of the war) are in line with what I want him to do.

I would never vote for him for congress... but thanks to our wonderful system of checks and balances, I've got no problem voting for him for president. And if a Liberterian-esque candidate, even a crazy one, does get a huge chunk of votes, maybe it will convince the reasonable ones to start thinking they have a chance.

I'd rather have democracts vs. libertarians balance than a democrats vs. neocons imbalance.
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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby redwards » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:18 pm UTC

How about a "No, I'm not a registered Republican" option?

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby redwards » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:22 pm UTC

@ all of the "he has no chance in hell" people: Maybe I just spend to much time on the internet (a.k.a. RonPaulForPresidentville), but I thought the recent announcement that Paul had raised 5 million dollars in Q3, up 114% from the previous quarter, where Rudy and Romney had each raised about 8 million, both down significantly from the previous quarter, was fairly impressive.

I still think he's a long shot to pick up the nomination, but not nearly as much as I used to.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby zenten » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:27 pm UTC

Griffin wrote:My reasons are almost the same as Vanivers -

I don't care much about his stances that he, himself, won't be able to do much to enact as president... but he will STOP a hell of a lot of things I don't like, and the few things he can do as president (like pulling out of the war) are in line with what I want him to do.

I would never vote for him for congress... but thanks to our wonderful system of checks and balances, I've got no problem voting for him for president. And if a Liberterian-esque candidate, even a crazy one, does get a huge chunk of votes, maybe it will convince the reasonable ones to start thinking they have a chance.

I'd rather have democracts vs. libertarians balance than a democrats vs. neocons imbalance.


I actually would too.

Mind you, it's still a crappy situation. Probably because I really don't like democrats, libertarians or neocons, at least as political leaders.

Still, a libertarian US President is much less likely to do anything to screw up my country (or any other non-American country) than a Republican or Democrat is.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby Axman » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:33 pm UTC

Still, a libertarian US President is much less likely to do anything to screw up my country (or any other non-American country) than a Republican or Democrat is.


Not from the government's perspective.

Also, isolationism is a great way to fuck up other countries.

I'm Libertarian, I'll admit it...but there's no way I'd vote LP or Ronwise, because neither seems to realize that we no longer live in the 18th century.

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Re: So who's voting for the Ronpaul in the primaries?

Postby mosc » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:41 pm UTC

e946 wrote:
TechnoGuyRob wrote:Also, he doesn't support "abolishing" the IRS. He wants to phase it out slowly and its unconstitutional policies.


I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, the 16th amendment was yelling too loudly.


the Ronpaul thinks the 16th amendment is unconstitutional. Moreover, half of his views seem to point towards a confederacy and the entire 1789 document being, itself, ironically unconstitutional. Please, the guy is so anti-federal he makes Thomas Jefferson look right wing of Hamilton! (if you didn't get that joke than don't worry, you just slept through American politics circa 1790)
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