taking teenagers seriously

For the serious discussion of weighty matters and worldly issues. No off-topic posts allowed.

Moderators: Azrael, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:39 pm UTC

Quite possibly. I can't completey get past the fact that we've kind of been through most of this already.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

malarkie
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:21 am UTC
Location: Cloud 8

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby malarkie » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:35 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:They are separate, in the same way that a trigger and a gun are separate.


Do you mean that one requires the other to work? You can shoot bullets without a gun.
Or that adolescence is part of puberty?
22/7 wrote:
zenten wrote:Are you saying that the time that they happen does not have to coincide?

(edited down to the 'yes' part)
SecondTalon wrote:
So long as it's sticky and goes well with a taco.

User avatar
Indon
Posts: 4433
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:21 pm UTC
Location: Alabama :(
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Indon » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:14 pm UTC

I'd say that Adolescence is the time period in which a youth is expected to go through puberty. Thus they are related, but not neccessarily for all individuals.
So, I like talking. So if you want to talk about something with me, feel free to send me a PM.

My blog, now rarely updated.

Image

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:06 am UTC

malarkie wrote:
22/7 wrote:They are separate, in the same way that a trigger and a gun are separate.


Do you mean that one requires the other to work? You can shoot bullets without a gun.
Or that adolescence is part of puberty?


The part that I've already said a couple of times. That puberty is a part of adolescence.

malarkie wrote:
22/7 wrote:
zenten wrote:Are you saying that the time that they happen does not have to coincide?

(edited down to the 'yes' part)


If I had said yes, you wouldn't have needed to edit it down "the 'yes' part."

I'm not trying to get testy here, but the vast majority of this stuff has been covered in the previous 5 pages.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
Maurog
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:58 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Maurog » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:01 am UTC

You know I'm currently about 27 and I just have to ask...

What the heck is an adult and how do I become one?
In fact, what the heck is a teenager and how do I become one?

My development as a person was a continuous journey. Every day I accumulate experience and become a bit wiser than yesterday. I can look at myself a year ago and say "I'm wiser". I can look at myself 10 years ago and say "what a fool". I can look at myself 20 years ago and say "I'm not even taking this one seriously". And yet, at none of the stages did I suddenly emit a bright glow and the words "You gained a level" appeared over my head.

People gain experience at different rates in different areas of life. There exist 12 year olds more mature than me in certain areas. There exist 50 year olds that behave like small children. If I can carry an intelligent conversation about DoTA with a 10 year old, is he not an adult in this area and deserves to be treated like one? This drunk hobo in a ditch who was never sober for the last 30 years, is he not a childe?

The "adolescent", "adult" and similar labels are too general to have objective definition. Everyone will have a different subjective idea of what these are, and as such will not be able to agree. "Puberty", on the other hand, is a very concrete thing, defined in a scientific way.

Subjectively speaking, I am but a child with the resources of an adult.
Slay the living! Raise the dead! Paint the sky in crimson red!

User avatar
duaneb
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:35 pm UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby duaneb » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:17 pm UTC

I'm 16, the definition of a teenager. Biologically, I'm a very young teenager (hit puberty as a fourteen-year-old), so hormones have just started to hit me with their full potential. I come here (to this forum as a whole, not just serious business) so that I CAN be taken seriously. Everything I say here I carefully edit: I cut, I paste, I expand, and I compact. I have a love for languages: I currently take French and Latin and am teaching myself Ancient Greek and modern German. My Latin teacher has his P.H.D. in philosophy and still teaches high school Latin; from him I learned a fair amount what rhetorical speaking I know.

Now why am I saying this? This is not a plea to be taken seriously, but rather an insight into the effort I put into what little I say here. I can hardly speak for all teenagers, but I think that regardless of age, if somebody speaks seriously, then every person listening should also put a equal amount of energy into the consideration of what the speaker is attempting to convey.

Cheers! -Duane.

User avatar
Live
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:30 pm UTC
Location: National Capital Region

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Live » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:47 pm UTC

I don't take teenagers seriously, at least not as a group.

On an individual basis, I'll take them seriously, if they deserve it. That goes for everyone, though, not just teens.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." -H.L. Mencken

User avatar
zingmaster
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:22 pm UTC
Location: Ha!
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby zingmaster » Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:36 pm UTC

And what determines whether someone deserves to be taken seriously?
You get 500 xp.
You collect:
1 :lol: HOBO BONUS :lol:
1 :idea: CHAOS BONUS :idea:
1 rusty dagger

Hold on Dreamaway
You're my sweet charade

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:58 pm UTC

zingmaster wrote:And what determines whether someone deserves to be taken seriously?


Whether or not they're in a group, apparently.

Maurog wrote:You know I'm currently about 27 and I just have to ask...

What the heck is an adult and how do I become one?
You'll have to be more specific. Culturally, physically, or psychologically?
Maurog wrote:In fact, what the heck is a teenager and how do I become one?

I think you probably meant adolescent here, because if you didn't, I think I've found a stupid question.

Maurog wrote:My development as a person was a continuous journey. Every day I accumulate experience and become a bit wiser than yesterday. I can look at myself a year ago and say "I'm wiser". I can look at myself 10 years ago and say "what a fool". I can look at myself 20 years ago and say "I'm not even taking this one seriously". And yet, at none of the stages did I suddenly emit a bright glow and the words "You gained a level" appeared over my head.

Quite true, wisdom and experience and whatnot are continuous, not piecewise with jump discontinuities.

Maurog wrote:People gain experience at different rates in different areas of life. There exist 12 year olds more mature than me in certain areas. There exist 50 year olds that behave like small children. If I can carry an intelligent conversation about DoTA with a 10 year old, is he not an adult in this area and deserves to be treated like one? This drunk hobo in a ditch who was never sober for the last 30 years, is he not a childe?

Not sure if I get your point here.

Maurog wrote:The "adolescent", "adult" and similar labels are too general to have objective definition. Everyone will have a different subjective idea of what these are, and as such will not be able to agree. "Puberty", on the other hand, is a very concrete thing, defined in a scientific way.

Quite to the contrary, terms like "adult" and "adolescent" can be very objective, but you've failed to describe the lens through which we are looking (again, society, physiological, psychological, etc) and so you can make these terms appear too vague and subjective to be useful, but in reality they are not that way at all.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

malarkie
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:21 am UTC
Location: Cloud 8

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby malarkie » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:12 pm UTC

22/7, You really don't believe that teenager could ever be taken seriously? That's the implication in your arguements.

Also, it's quite unlikely that adolescence causes puberty.
SecondTalon wrote:

So long as it's sticky and goes well with a taco.

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:22 pm UTC

malarkie wrote:22/7, You really don't believe that teenager could ever be taken seriously? That's the implication in your arguements.

Also, it's quite unlikely that adolescence causes puberty.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhh! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh! Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhh! *tears out hair* *bashes head into wall* *jumps out window*

RTFGDT!

The ridiculous thing about this is that my argument doesn't actually have anything to do with taking teenagers seriously. No really. This *whole thread* has been OT since we went down this bunny trail 4 or 5 pages back and we haven't really gotten back on track.

Oh and, also, you might want to actually read *one* of my posts before you say something like "it's quite unlikely that adolescence causes puberty" because, well, it would be stupid to think such (assuming you had brain one in that head and that you had some idea as to the definitions of those two things) and I don't think that *anyone* here has made such a claim. So my question to you is, why? Why must you keep typing these things?[/rant]

I am very sorry if that was too rude. I am not going to partake in this thread anymore unless it actually changes in content/direction, though my hunch is that the only thing keeping it alive was the rehashing done over the last couple pages.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

malarkie
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:21 am UTC
Location: Cloud 8

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby malarkie » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:32 pm UTC

Saying that puberty is part of adolescence implies causality to me. Word order and all that.
But you are right, this thread was dead a while ago.

And being irritating is a skill I have.
SecondTalon wrote:

So long as it's sticky and goes well with a taco.

zenten
Posts: 3799
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:42 am UTC
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby zenten » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:35 pm UTC

22/7 wrote:
malarkie wrote:22/7, You really don't believe that teenager could ever be taken seriously? That's the implication in your arguements.

Also, it's quite unlikely that adolescence causes puberty.

Aaaaaaaaaahhhhh! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh! Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhh! *tears out hair* *bashes head into wall* *jumps out window*

RTFGDT!

The ridiculous thing about this is that my argument doesn't actually have anything to do with taking teenagers seriously. No really. This *whole thread* has been OT since we went down this bunny trail 4 or 5 pages back and we haven't really gotten back on track.

Oh and, also, you might want to actually read *one* of my posts before you say something like "it's quite unlikely that adolescence causes puberty" because, well, it would be stupid to think such (assuming you had brain one in that head and that you had some idea as to the definitions of those two things) and I don't think that *anyone* here has made such a claim. So my question to you is, why? Why must you keep typing these things?[/rant]

I am very sorry if that was too rude. I am not going to partake in this thread anymore unless it actually changes in content/direction, though my hunch is that the only thing keeping it alive was the rehashing done over the last couple pages.


You're right, and I'm sorry I kept it going.

If people really care about this tangent there should be a thread in Science or something. But since it seems like everyone but you agrees one way, and you don't seem to want to continue this, that would be rather pointless.

User avatar
Maurog
Posts: 842
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:58 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Maurog » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:56 am UTC

Quite to the contrary, terms like "adult" and "adolescent" can be very objective, but you've failed to describe the lens through which we are looking (again, society, physiological, psychological, etc) and so you can make these terms appear too vague and subjective to be useful, but in reality they are not that way at all.

If I say "psychological adult", will everyone get the exact same impression of the symbol, or will they need a 3-page argument as to establish what it is, complete with name calling and hitting each other with chairs, with the winners declaring a consensus and losers skulking in shadowy corners licking their wounds?

Vague definition is vague.
Slay the living! Raise the dead! Paint the sky in crimson red!

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:23 pm UTC

Maurog wrote:
Quite to the contrary, terms like "adult" and "adolescent" can be very objective, but you've failed to describe the lens through which we are looking (again, society, physiological, psychological, etc) and so you can make these terms appear too vague and subjective to be useful, but in reality they are not that way at all.

If I say "psychological adult", will everyone get the exact same impression of the symbol, or will they need a 3-page argument as to establish what it is, complete with name calling and hitting each other with chairs, with the winners declaring a consensus and losers skulking in shadowy corners licking their wounds?

Vague definition is vague.


Wow, pissed off much? If you read the thread you'll see that this problem had actually been dealt with a few times already, and the thread had been necro'd apparently to rehash the same old shit that we went through in the first 3 or 4 pages. Since I was having to respond to *everything* and the (some of) the people who were arguing with me weren't actually reading what I had already spent probably an hour or so of my life typing out, I wasn't all that inclined to hang around and *re*explain what had gone on in the previous 5 or so pages, especially since it was *right there* for them to go read for themselves. I'm only going to have someone ask me my stance on something I've already quite clearly laid out 8 or 10 times before I throw my hands up and leave.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

nameless
Fooled you; My name is Inigo Montoya
Posts: 194
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 3:12 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby nameless » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:15 pm UTC

Hmm, I don't think that puberty and adolescence go together at all, I think that adolescence is the term that we, as society, have created to describe someone during that phase in their life. I think that you can have puberty without going through "adolescence" and that you can have "adolescence" without going through puberty.

It seems to me that adolescence just describes the way kids think and that it has been associated with puberty since they occur at the same time. Maybe some of the changes in thinking patterns do rely on hormones that are released during puberty, but I don't think that it means there is a link between the two. For instance, I've pretty much had the same thought process since I was 8. I take in, analyze, come up with a solution, re-analyze, and then, depending on the solution I come up with and whether or not I find any flaws with it, I carry it out. This by itself doesn't make me an "adult", though it is how most adults think (or how they should think...). Now part of adolescence is supposed to be a change in thought process, right? Well I most certainly was not in the midst of puberty when my thought process changed when I was 8 years old, and it hasn't changed since I started puberty either.

Well, thats just my view on it, now I sit back and wait for a response while eating some of the food my mom made me, cheers!
Wayne Weiten wrote:Sexual intercourse is really a pretty simple activity. Most animals execute the act with a minimum of difficulty. However, humans manage to make sexual relations terribly complicated

User avatar
bbctol
Super Deluxe Forum Title of DESTINYâ„¢
Posts: 3137
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:27 pm UTC
Location: The Twilight Zone
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby bbctol » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:39 am UTC

I never take teenagers seriously. They're always foolish and immature.

In all seriousness, I've found that a great majority of people my age I know are stupid and obnoxious. I think that I'm not, but I can't be sure. My only evidence is that over the internet, I'm constantly told that I sound older.

User avatar
Systemic
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 2:39 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Systemic » Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:36 am UTC

I'm a teenager, and take myself too seriously all of the time. It really gets on my nerves sometimes.

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:44 pm UTC

nameless wrote:For instance, I've pretty much had the same thought process since I was 8.
Unless you are currently 8 1/2, no, no you don't. Children develop at an astonishing rate, and there's just no way for someone who is, say, 8, to not develop their thought processes over the next, say, 3-5 years, significantly, even if it's not for the better. Once puberty hits, this rate of change is accelerated.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
schizomatzo
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:52 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby schizomatzo » Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 am UTC

bbctol wrote:I never take teenagers seriously. They're always foolish and immature.

In all seriousness, I've found that a great majority of people my age I know are stupid and obnoxious. I think that I'm not, but I can't be sure. My only evidence is that over the internet, I'm constantly told that I sound older.

Yes we are foolish and immature. Without being foolish and immature once, you never gain the understanding of what it means. (See? I'm doing it right now aren't I?)

User avatar
Aoeniac
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:55 am UTC
Location: RIGHT HERE IN THIS VERY SPOT→•

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Aoeniac » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:54 am UTC

I feel that maturity is a result of intensity of experience, that is to say, the only thing age does for you is provide you with more time to accumulate experience and whether or not you USE that time depends heavily on the individual. As far as I can tell, a lot of people don't use that time at all. Aging is inevitable but maturing is optional.

That said, I still find it hard to take younger people seriously. Well, I suppose I should say that I find it hard to take ANYONE seriously, but kids are at a distinct disadvantage. You won't find mature kids unless they've had to endure some pretty heavy circumstances during their short lives. And when you find a kid like that, it's usually pretty obvious that they deserve to be listened to.

Not like adults anyway, who are usually good at disguising the fact that they don't know what they're talking about until it's already too late and you wasted your time listening to them.
Class: 12th level Epiphenomenalist Alignment: Rational

User avatar
goedjn4
Posts: 56
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:13 pm UTC
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby goedjn4 » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:37 pm UTC

zenten wrote:
Girl™ wrote:
malarkie wrote:You think that maybe the problem with forming a coherent arguement isn't inherent with the teen? (American) schools don't help students develop reasoning skills or debate unless you're in a club or an honors class. I went through two years of high school before I found a teacher who could defend his subject without paraphrasing 'because I am the teacher.'


To be fair, if you're a teacher, there's one of you, and
20-40 students per class. If they spend any significant time
discussing with students as individuals the why's and wherefores
of a topic, they wouldn't have time to get anything done.
Don't you think it's a WEE bit presumptuous to expect them
to abandon the other 39 people to their own devices while
they debate some procedural issue with you?

So "I haven't the time or inclination to walk you through the
reasoning for this, so we're just going to do it my way" is
often a perfectly legitimate response. Frustrating, maybe,
but not necessarily wrong.

--goedjn

User avatar
skatastrophy
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:00 pm UTC
Location: Milwauke, WI
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby skatastrophy » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:44 pm UTC

goedjn4 wrote:So "I haven't the time or inclination to walk you through the
reasoning for this, so we're just going to do it my way" is
often a perfectly legitimate response. Frustrating, maybe,
but not necessarily wrong.

--goedjn


QFT

As a good student, it would be in your best interest to visit a teacher after class if you'd like to delve deeper into a particular subject. There's no reason to drag the rest of the class along on your fishing expedition.

Engaging a teacher after class will help to educate you further, and will help your grade in the long run by making yourself stand out as an interested individual in the teacher's eyes .

CarolDC
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:19 pm UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby CarolDC » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:34 pm UTC

A few things.

First off, one of the things I honestly miss about being a teenager was the sort of "Oh me yarm WTF... YOU'RE NOT A 14 YEAR OLD GIRL!" response I'd get.

Also, I'm pretty glad that there were some people out there on the Internet willing to take me seriously from 14-18. Because almost every political/moral/whathaveyou view I adopted during that period was tested out online. Nobody wants to debate gay marriage or the existence of god in the middle of Home Ec or in the middle of the house party, but I wanted to make sure the opinions I was starting to develop about those things were coherent and defendable.

I'm sure I wasn't the only person who did this.

User avatar
Eleyras
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:56 am UTC
Location: the computer lab

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Eleyras » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:22 am UTC

skatastrophy wrote:QFT

As a good student, it would be in your best interest to visit a teacher after class if you'd like to delve deeper into a particular subject. There's no reason to drag the rest of the class along on your fishing expedition.

Engaging a teacher after class will help to educate you further, and will help your grade in the long run by making yourself stand out as an interested individual in the teacher's eyes .

That said, if a class wants to discuss, there's something to be said for letting them discuss. I'm right now in a high school contemporary lit class with 30 other students and we just talk for maybe half the class period, learn things, and phrase coherent arguments. Raise your hand. Bring up an interesting point you'd like to discuss. If you get <crickets> and a dirty look from peers/the teacher, stfu. But it's way worth the try, IMO, because if the group starts talking you can find out interesting things.

If you get a great look from the teacher and dirty ones from the class, talk to teacher after class. If you want to have extra awesome discussion, talk to teacher after class. I do think discussion-based classes have a major place in education and it's a pity I had to go jump through bureaucratic hoops to get one (middle college program, w00t w00t!)
At some point, I will remember to sig quotes I find amusing or something.

...once I stop laughing.

malarkie
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:21 am UTC
Location: Cloud 8

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby malarkie » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:05 am UTC

goedjn, procedual issue?

I don't think it any bit presumptuous to expect my english teacher to know why the symbol in the bookis this and not that, or my bio intructor to be able to tell me why the endosymbiotic theory came into being than just because. These are things teachers should know and be able to tell me without it devolving into that kind of arguement.
SecondTalon wrote:

So long as it's sticky and goes well with a taco.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Dream » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:44 pm UTC

malarkie wrote:goedjn, procedual issue?

I don't think it any bit presumptuous to expect my english teacher to know why the symbol in the bookis this and not that, or my bio intructor to be able to tell me why the endosymbiotic theory came into being than just because. These are things teachers should know and be able to tell me without it devolving into that kind of arguement.

No, teachers shouldn't have to know everything. Even everything about their chosen subject matter. Your english example would be derailing the class over an issue of punctuation, so unless you were learning grammar it would be completely inappropriate. Your bio example is more like just asking the teacher a question, rather than starting a debate. You get your answer, and good, bad or indifferent, the class moves on. Without you if necessary. Then after class, you can discuss whatever point it was, briefly before the teacher has more important things to do for the next class.

Debating with an indivdual student on an individual point is such a tiny part of a teacher's job it doesn't even register next to the serious business of keepig the entire class interested and engaged, and educating, especially those who don't realise that it's a good idea to be learning this stuff while you have the chance.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
Chase Watkins
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Chase Watkins » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:09 pm UTC

i dont exist.
Last edited by Chase Watkins on Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:47 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Gunfingers » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:12 pm UTC

There should also be cars that run on happy thoughts and large groups of beautiful women who want to devote a few evenings to satisfying me, since we're on the subject of things that would be awesome but are impossible to implement.

User avatar
22/7
I'm pretty sure I have "The Slavery In My Asshole" on DVD.
Posts: 6475
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:30 pm UTC
Location: 127.0.0.1

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby 22/7 » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:29 pm UTC

Gunfingers wrote:There should also be cars that run on happy thoughts and large groups of beautiful women who want to devote a few evenings to satisfying me, since we're on the subject of things that would be awesome but are impossible to implement.

Exactly what I was thinking.

@Chase: Ideally, this would be a great idea, but then the questions start rolling in. Who creates the test? Who judges it? What questions are on it? How do you demonstrate responsibility on a *test*? How do you show/prove that you're responsible all the time? What about patience? Are patience and responsibility the only indicators of maturity? Are they even good indicators? For that matter, is patience really necessary for maturity?

And to be completely honest, I don't see how the profession that one of your friends currently holds or the fact that you've got an email address makes a person (or indicates that they are) mature.
Totally not a hypothetical...

Steroid wrote:
bigglesworth wrote:If your economic reality is a choice, then why are you not as rich as Bill Gates?
Don't want to be.
I want to be!

User avatar
Chase Watkins
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:58 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Chase Watkins » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:14 pm UTC

i dont exist.
Last edited by Chase Watkins on Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:47 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dream
WINNING
Posts: 4338
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:20 pm UTC
Location: The Hollow Scene Epic

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Dream » Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:17 am UTC

Chase Watkins wrote:You did take me seriously, for that I thank you.
Now that I read my post again, I realize I was not explaining myself thoroughly enough.
Firstly: I was speaking ideally, really ideally, we were almost creating a story of an alternate world with an allegory of our own as we discussed this.
Secondly: Based upon what I said firstly, the test would be a perfect evaluation of maturity, created by, say, the goddess of wisdom and the god of knowledge
Thirdly: I talk to my scientist friend on a regular basis and understand what he is talking about when he says what he is studying, as I understand what we are talking about on XKCD
Lastly: It is much easier for me to make a point when I am speaking face to face with someone, so that I can instantly clarify any misunderstandings when asked to do so.

Without being patronizing at all (and I mean that), in the approximately twice-as-long life as yours I've led, I can reasonably assume I've experienced and learned some things that you haven't. Unless you are one teenager in a million, you have most likely not had to make very difficult decisions with far reaching consequences for yourself, entirely unsupported. (Again, most likely, not necessarily) You are unlikely to have made mistakes that carried heavy consequences, nor have you built up too much regret about what might have been. You will do all these things in future, and will learn from them. And unless you turn out to be supremely arrogant, you will probably consider yourself older and wiser.

This is why ignorat people patronize or ignore teenagers. They assume, rightly, a lack of experience, and wrongly a necessary lack of useful contribution to whatever is being discussed. They think they are older and wiser.

And for me, I'm still young too. My dad, or whoever is much more widely experienced than I am, and correspondingly is probably more of an authority than I on many things, some of which I'm unaware I am even ignorant about. We all learn as we age. Of course this is all subject to a results curve, which may not even be bell-shaped. Some people stay ignorant, and some are informed and insightful beyond their years.
I knew a woman once, but she died soon after.

User avatar
zingmaster
Posts: 480
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:22 pm UTC
Location: Ha!
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby zingmaster » Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:15 pm UTC

Well, regardless of how old you may be, physically or mentally, there is always someone who will be "wiser" than you. So what's the point of anyone placing him/herself above anyone else in an arrogant manner? There's always someone who could do the same to said person. That's what bothers me...and it has to do with those ignorant people you talked about. True, we lack experience, but that doesn't mean we're not useful (that is, beyond chores and homework).

In fact, my parents sometimes include me in their discussions every once in a while, which shows they value my opinion on some issue. What's weird is that because of that, over the past couple years I've begun noticing subtle dynamics that I didn't see before. Having a little backstory helps, but I believe the fact that I can observe these things now shows how much I've matured.

Now that I read that, I see I'm a little scatter-brained right now. Wow...
You get 500 xp.
You collect:
1 :lol: HOBO BONUS :lol:
1 :idea: CHAOS BONUS :idea:
1 rusty dagger

Hold on Dreamaway
You're my sweet charade

User avatar
Rex Idiotarum
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:19 am UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:02 pm UTC

I'm 19, according to my parents, but I would have to say, age won't matter much in discussions. I mean, sure, older demographics will have more knowledge in historically relevant things, but I also know kids younger than me that know more about World War II than even a vet would know. I have had amazing discussions with people I found out later were much, much younger than me, and I have had plenty of discussions with people much, much older than me that often went on to disappoint me when they handled it immaturely. ((My Mom and I always seem like two little kids arguing about a toy. "It's my Internet, so I can do what I want with it!" -"Yeah, but screwing up the Internet for the entire household won't make you anymore right."))

So yeah, I look for mature arguers as well as try to mature myself in arguing.
This post had objectionable content.

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:24 pm UTC

While it doesn't necessarily prove you wrong, possessing knowledge != intelligence.
When i was a teenager i knew a shit-ton of stuff about a shit-ton of things. I was still pretty retarded.

User avatar
Twinfire0
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:59 pm UTC
Location: United States

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby Twinfire0 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:27 pm UTC

Just so everybody knows, I fall into the "teenager" category (Junior in high school at the moment).

Now, I can understand why it's difficult to take a teenager seriously (I basically have to live with them, and there isn't much that I haven't seen in the way of immaturity/idiocy when it comes to teenage behavior). I've seen intelligent kids capable of forming legitimate and coherent arguments, but most of them lack the respect to get their points across to others without sounding like jerks. The "smart" and "reasonable" teenagers, I've come to notice, consist partially of people who *know* that they're right. And frankly, they sometimes are. But the condescending attitude many of these teenagers hold is enough reason for an adult to dismiss them outright. And I would have to agree with that mindset.

Now, I've come to realize, that through the short course of my existence, that "experience" and "age" are not completely synonymous. I've seen teenagers become parents, and yet I doubt that any one of them would be capable of living on their own.

My philosophy is this: Take as much as you can from your life and learn from it. I've only been in one relationship (and that was in junior high school), but that one experience alone has taught me the virtues and importance of learning and accepting things as they come. Because of this (along with many sessions of me-time), I have come to realize that being kind, respectful, and accepting of others (no matter how young, old, or immature) is a sure-fire way to elicit good will not only in yourself, but also in the people you affect in your every day life.

So, I believe that even though it is difficult to take most teenagers seriously, you should at least listen and offer up advice whenever you can. If you're talking to a kid who's acting rude or disrespectful, treat them kindly. Perhaps if they see that you can respect them even while they're treating you like garbage, maybe they'll figure out that there's no reason for them to get hot-headed of nasty with you (or anybody else). Believe me, I've seen it happen, and just one time is enough for me to realize the importance of respecting others, no matter who they are.

User avatar
williamager
Posts: 299
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:32 am UTC
Location: Aldeburgh, Suffolk (actually US...)
Contact:

Re: taking teenagers seriously

Postby williamager » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:00 am UTC

Dream wrote:This is why ignorant people patronize or ignore teenagers. They assume, rightly, a lack of experience, and wrongly a necessary lack of useful contribution to whatever is being discussed. They think they are older and wiser.

And for me, I'm still young too. My dad, or whoever is much more widely experienced than I am, and correspondingly is probably more of an authority than I on many things, some of which I'm unaware I am even ignorant about. We all learn as we age. Of course this is all subject to a results curve, which may not even be bell-shaped. Some people stay ignorant, and some are informed and insightful beyond their years.


I believe it would be safer to say that they assume a lack of experience that is probably correct.
Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse


Return to “Serious Business”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests