Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

For the serious discussion of weighty matters and worldly issues. No off-topic posts allowed.

Moderators: Azrael, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Palomides
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:08 pm UTC

Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Palomides » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:00 am UTC

Assumption for this discussion: marijuana has no serious health effects.

As a teen in the US, I've been exposed to lots of government sponsored crap and lots of anti-government crap. As far as I can tell, there has been no conclusive evidence that marijuana is all that terrible, in terms of physical health. However, I still find the idea of messing with my brain in such a manner, undesirable. Are there any logical reasons to hold this view? I am speaking as a person with no direct experience on the topic, and no interest in actually partaking.

In short, what other adverse (or beneficial) effects can marijuana have on a person, discluding physical health?

Try to prevent yourself from spouting out halfassed answers based on your prejudices in either direction :P
don't raep the forum noob S:
serious kudos to anyone who successfully finds the sauce of my avatar
(I do know the sauce, I just want to see if anyone else does)

User avatar
Gunfingers
Posts: 2401
Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 7:15 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:38 am UTC

Wikipedia article on the health effects of Cannabis.

TL;DR it's not none, but it's less than what the ONDCP makes it out to be. So much of what both sides say is rhetoric that it's hard no know what to believe. Personally i avoid cannabis, tobacco, alcohol, and even large amounts of caffeine, but i'm weird.

User avatar
TheBeeCeeEmm
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:13 am UTC
Location: Here and there.
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby TheBeeCeeEmm » Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:58 am UTC

I advise trying cannabis at least once so that you can know even slightly what you're talking about (I don't mean that in a condescending or insulting way, nor am I insinuating that you cannot take part in the coming discussion. It's just hard to talk about the non-physical effects of weed without having tried it.) The best way I can describe it is that you feel a little bit dumber for a while, but you feel good and everything is more fun/funny. It's really not that mind-altering either way (good or bad), unless you get REALLY baked. But hey, same thing can be said for everything etc etc

I'd put it this way - it's not something you'd want to do ALL the time (though some people do), because feeling dumb that long would be...well, dumb. But it's amazing in little bits (every few days at MOST for me, more often every few weeks) and you're back to normal the next day at the latest. You can function fine even when high.

As for "messing with your brain", as I said it's only temporary (disregarding use while still under 18 or whatever, where some studies show it can mess with brain development slightly or something like that - it's probably in that wikipedia article), and you do that whenever you take medications, so what is really the big difference (and the big deal)?
There is no certainty, only opportunity.
http://www.counterorder.com
Belial wrote:You're basically saying that my computer is nonfunctional because it doesn't make waffles.

Avatar is Copyright of Freydis.

User avatar
MartianInvader
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:51 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby MartianInvader » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:27 am UTC

One of the best ways to describe the effects is that it makes everything seem more interesting. This can cause creativity (you pursue paths of thought you never bothered with before) or, well, stupidity ("Man, this little line in my hand is SO AWESOME"). Another way to describe the effects is that it gives you more mental energy. Now, like most anything you can do to your body or brain, you develop a tolerance. The tolerance you develop tends to cause the opposite effect while you're not high, so things become less interesting; you have less mental energy. And, of course, as you develop a tolerance, you'll become less and less energized every time you use the drug. Using the drug a lot can really cause you to slump, to the point where you don't have the interest or energy to do anything not immediately gratifying like eating or watching TV. That said, if you lay off for a while, the tolerance does seem to dissipate (I'd say 1-2 months to get back to totally normal). So use in moderation probably isn't all that harmful.
Let's have a fervent argument, mostly over semantics, where we all claim the burden of proof is on the other side!

The Reaper
Posts: 4008
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: San Antonio, Tx
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby The Reaper » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:04 am UTC

I have nothing against the use of it, my problem is that most people get mentally addicted to the thing, and have absolutely no qualms about being all the stupid all the time.

I tend to do the same as Gun in this case, but not to his extreme. Whenever I notice myself starting eat/drink/smoke things habitually, I tend to stop for awhile, because I don't want to be those people I see that can't. I don't have an addictive personality, which is an added bonus, and I have a high drug tolerance, which is detrimental to my willingness to use things on a regular basis.

As for weed, I see it as safer than alcohol, because I really really really dislike driving while stoned, and when I do have to drive for whatever reason, tend to roll about 10 under the speed limit, white-knuckling the steering wheel. Also, doesn't it also lock down carbon while growing, thus making my air conditioning cheaper over time? (supposedly) I think thats an added mental health benefit against stress... even if it is rather superficial.



No I wasn't high when I wrote that, it just seems like I was :\

User avatar
Malice
Posts: 3894
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:37 am UTC
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Malice » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:21 am UTC

Palomides wrote:As a teen in the US, I've been exposed to lots of government sponsored crap and lots of anti-government crap. As far as I can tell, there has been no conclusive evidence that marijuana is all that terrible, in terms of physical health. However, I still find the idea of messing with my brain in such a manner, undesirable. Are there any logical reasons to hold this view?


Sure. It's perfectly logical not to want to use artificial substances to make yourself temporarily mentally inhibited. I'm the exact same way. I'm comfortable with my level of functioning, and don't wish to alter that by smoking pot. I usually don't drink, either, because I don't like the way I lose control of myself.

Another logical reason I hold this view is that I simply don't like the smell of marijuana (or the taste of alcohol, generally, which is why I only drink well-mixed stuff).

There are certain experiences that you shouldn't really have to defend your preference towards. Mountain climbing, for instance--on the one hand, it is clearly something cool and you can see far from high up and it's fun physical activity, and on the other hand, it's clearly dangerous and difficult and I can live my life without personally seeing those particular views. Neither side has the grounds to override the other. Same with marijuana. Fun for some people, not for others, both are equally valid preferences.
Image

frr
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:48 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby frr » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:39 am UTC

Palomides wrote:As far as I can tell, there has been no conclusive evidence that marijuana is all that terrible, in terms of physical health. However, I still find the idea of messing with my brain in such a manner, undesirable. Are there any logical reasons to hold this view? I am speaking as a person with no direct experience on the topic, and no interest in actually partaking.

<removed, turns out wikipedia says otherwise while I thought it'd support my claim>

I don't know how marijuana smells but my friends are smoking hookah (fruit flavours and such) and I just don't think the taste is worth it. In fact the scent is a lot more intense than the taste of smoking that stuff. I'm also the kind of person who think alcohol tastes terrible. However - I'm aware that most people don't smoke marijuana because of the taste :D
Another good reason not to smoke can be the effects on the brain. If you dance on the street and get hit by a car, drink cleaning agents to see what it tastes like or otherwise do something this dumb - you will get injured or killed. Or you're doing less lethal stupid things like accidently breaking up with your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Either way - unlike the effects on the brain, the consequences of your actions will last.

TheBeeCeeEmm wrote:As for "messing with your brain", as I said it's only temporary (disregarding use while still under 18 or whatever, where some studies show it can mess with brain development slightly or something like that - it's probably in that wikipedia article), and you do that whenever you take medications, so what is really the big difference (and the big deal)?

The difference is that medication is prescribed and supervised by a doctor who knows when the side effects of a drug outweigh the benefits.
Okay, there are meds you can buy everywhere without meeting a doctor at all. But those are painkillers and the like - generally nothing that will make you addicted.

As with alcohol, I guess the real problem starts when you're addicted or taking too much. Sure, you would not, for example, want to drive while high - but will you still remember that rule once you're totally stoned? Cannabis is a hallucinogen and psychoactive in general.
Another danger might be that once you're addicted and marijuana doesn't do the trick anymore, you will be tempted to move on to worse drugs. (And at this point, you're probably stoned enough to do it.)
Last edited by frr on Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:16 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
„Every time you read or write beyond the end of an array, somewhere a fairy dies.“ ~ Richard Buckland

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Diadem » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:25 pm UTC

As drugs go Marijuana is pretty harmless. That doesn't mean there are no adverse effects on your health. But most other drugs, including tabacco and alcohol, are a lot worse. If you do use cannabis, smoking it is the worst possible method. Simply because smoking is so bad for you. So I advice using some other method. Like baking a good old fashioned space cake. Of course if you already are a smoker, that argument does not apply, and smoking marijuana might actually be a healthly activity (because it will cause you to smoke less tabacco). Of course if you're already a smoker you're pretty much hosed anyway.

It's not really addictive either. Sure you can get addicted to it, but you can get addicted to anything. I'm not saying it's completely harmless, but again, most other drugs are more addictive. Cannabis is less addictive than alcohol, so if you can drink alcohol without getting addicted, you should be able to use cannabis without getting addicted. I think a majority of students here uses or has used cannabis, and I've only ever met one who could be described as addicted. But he was addicted to alcohol and tabacco too, so marijuana is really the least of his problems.

Of course, excessive use of marijuana might turn you into a Dutchman. But while this can be scary at first, it is a lot of fun once you're used to it! :P
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
clintonius
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 9:13 pm UTC
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby clintonius » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:31 pm UTC

I very much support this topic, but I want to see more sources cited, given the number of claim/counterclaim and opinion posts in this thread. Gunfingers kicked it off well; let's have some more citation and fewer unsupported assertions. Thanks.

~CM
kira wrote:*piles up some limbs and blood and a couple hearts for good measure*
GUYS. I MADE A HUMAN.
*...pokes at it with a stick*

User avatar
pollywog
Let's party like it's my postcount
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 10:10 am UTC
Location: Coolest little capital in the world
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby pollywog » Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:58 pm UTC

frr wrote:The difference is that medication is prescribed and supervised by a doctor who knows when the side effects of a drug outweigh the benefits.
Okay, there are meds you can buy everywhere without meeting a doctor at all. But those are painkillers and the like - generally nothing that will make you addicted.

As with alcohol, I guess the real problem starts when you're addicted or taking too much. Sure, you would not, for example, want to drive while high - but will you still remember that rule once you're totally stoned? Cannabis is a hallucinogen and psychoactive in general.
Another danger might be that once you're addicted and marijuana doesn't do the trick anymore, you will be tempted to move on to worse drugs. (And at this point, you're probably stoned enough to do it.)
Cannabis is not a hallucinogen, not even close. Cannabis addiction (and addiction in general) do not work the way you think it does. Once you are addicted to a substance, it does not stop doing the trick, but instead becames what you need. I am addicted to a substance, and it's all I need (drugwise). I still use other drugs, but don't feel the need to move on to other, harder drugs. Also, cannabis is not very addictive. I believe that it isn't at all, but that's based on my experience with addiction and cannabis use. This wiki article suggests that it is not addictive in terms of brain chemistry, and only addictive through psychological dependency.
suffer-cait wrote:hey, guys?
i'm fucking magic

frr
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 7:48 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby frr » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:59 pm UTC

The article you linked mentions that it alters perception.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_issues_and_the_effects_of_cannabis#Psychoactive_effects wrote:The psychoactive effects of cannabis, known as a "high," are subjective and can vary based on the individual. Some effects may include general change in consciousness (altered perception)

The article about Cannabis explicitly mentions its role as hallucinogen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)#Classification wrote:While many drugs clearly fall into the category of either stimulant, depressant, hallucinogen, or antipsychotic, cannabis, containing both THC and CBD, exhibits a mix of all properties, leaning towards hallucinogen properties due to THC being the primary constituent.

But you probably know better what all this means in real life than I do.

And lastly: you're right when you say it makes a lot less addictive i.e. you need to consume a lot become addicted the way i define addiction. (I usually think of addiction as addiction plus increasing tolerance and thus dose)
I didn't expect this at all.. you always hear about cannabis being a gateway drug and such. What sense does this make when it doesn't even make addictive.

I think I may have to revise my opinion of cannabis.
„Every time you read or write beyond the end of an array, somewhere a fairy dies.“ ~ Richard Buckland

User avatar
pollywog
Let's party like it's my postcount
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 10:10 am UTC
Location: Coolest little capital in the world
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby pollywog » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:27 pm UTC

frr wrote:The article about Cannabis explicitly mentions its role as hallucinogen.
It may have hallucinogenic properties, but its other effects overpower those completely. I'm getting confused between psychedelic and haalucinogenic here. In my experience, cannabis has only ever caused auditory hallucinations ("Hey, did you hear that?" sort of thing).

frr wrote:And lastly: you're right when you say it makes a lot less addictive i.e. you need to consume a lot become addicted the way i define addiction. (I usually think of addiction as addiction plus increasing tolerance and thus dose)
I didn't expect this at all.. you always hear about cannabis being a gateway drug and such. What sense does this make when it doesn't even make addictive.
Your tolerance increases long before addiction fully takes hold. If I take an addictive drug, my tolerance will go up every time I use it, but I will not become addicted for a certain period of time. After my tolerance reaches a certain level, I'll start increasing my dose to get a high similar in strength to my first, and that's when I start becoming addicted.

Cannabis is a considered a gateway drug because if you use cannabis, it is assumed that you are more likely to try other, harder, drugs. Personally, I think that gateway theory is bullshit, but again, I'm using personal experience here. Soz.
suffer-cait wrote:hey, guys?
i'm fucking magic

a thing
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:18 pm UTC
Location: Chicago

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby a thing » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:36 am UTC

Malice wrote:It's perfectly logical not to want to use artificial substances to make yourself temporarily mentally inhibited.


Cannabis is natural. It is mentally inhibitory in some aspects (like ability to drive), but it has potentially (depending on how the user decides to utilize the effect) positive effects on the mind: it helps with making connections and makes thinking in general subjectively slower and more noticeable.

I do not think it is really logical or illogical to not want to alter consciousness (or vice versa), but it does not have to be. It is just a personal preference.

frr wrote:Another good reason not to smoke can be the effects on the brain. If you dance on the street and get hit by a car, drink cleaning agents to see what it tastes like or otherwise do something this dumb - you will get injured or killed. Or you're doing less lethal stupid things like accidently breaking up with your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Either way - unlike the effects on the brain, the consequences of your actions will last.


You reference does not support that cannabis significantly inhibits judgment. Those types of stupid actions are certainly done on alcohol, though.
Last edited by a thing on Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:12 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: My posts may change (dramatically) within the first 15 minutes they're posted.

User avatar
Dr.Robert
Posts: 232
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2007 10:42 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Dr.Robert » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:58 am UTC

As one who smokes quite often, I must say that I function quite fine as an individual. Though it is true that you simply cannot write college papers while under the influence. I'm also aware of the damage I am doing to my lungs. The benefits of pot are obvious to those who have smoked it, but there are some who do not deal with it well.

If you aren't interested in trying pot then don't try it, simple as that. There's nothing illogical about not smoking.

keith_
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:42 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby keith_ » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:27 pm UTC

If you do most anything regularly you’ll develop a tolerance to it. I’m citing common sense here. If you live in floridia and take a trip to the Yukon, you’ll likely be less tolerant of the cold than someone who lives there. If you smoke cigarettes regularly you wont get the head-rush that new smokers talk about getting. If you’re a dishwasher you’ll be far more tolerant of the burning hot plates than a typical passerby. The mechanisms are different but the response is the same. Tolerance isn’t what causes addiction though. Cannabis is not physically addictive. At all. If you want to get into pyscological addiction lets try to stop playing video games for awhile or constantly reading xkcd forums or watching tv or running three miles a day or lifting weights or checking facebook twelve times a day or anything else that’s psychologically addictive.

Marijuana is not dangerous. Not even remotely. “The smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health.” (The Lancet (The Lancet is a British medical journal) Volume 346, Number 8985, November 11, 1995, p. 1241 [the article is actually an editorial focused on the politics, but I’m not writing a research paper here, do your own research. . . not on Wikipedia]). If you’re worried about your lungs then don’t smoke it. Inhale its vapor with a vaporizer. Or eat it.

Its perfectly logical to want to alter consciousness. It allows one to see reality in new ways and open different avenues of thought that psychologically or due to societal influences one has not pursued consciously. Siddhartha saw the logic in altering consciousness. He called the results Nirvana. Some natural ways to alter ones consciousness are meditation, sleep, psychoactive plants, or hypnosis (among others).

The hallucinogenic qualities of marijuana can be experienced when the plant is not smoked. (the heat burns away much of the chemical makeup.) for whoever was saying the drug is not hallucinogenic at all or that those properties are overpowered by other chemicals, try cooking it into a hash oil and consuming it in foods. You’ll understand its psychedelic properties in full after that.

nazlfrag
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:54 pm UTC
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby nazlfrag » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC

Smoking pot is a lot like the Earth itself, mostly harmless. This is only anecdotal, but I have a lot of anecdotes, as where I live it is decriminalised. This means you can get busted, but for small amounts (under an ounce, growing 1 plant) the punishment is equivalent to a parking ticket, a fine of around US$50.

Anyway, for the anecdotes: All of the pot dealers I know deal exclusively in pot. The idea that a dealer will push harder drugs on you is nonexistent here. On the other hand, many of their customers are into harder drugs, and use pot to 'mellow out' after a binge on their harder drugs. None of the daily pot smokers I know use harder drugs often, though they may on occasion. Some don't ever touch other drugs including alcohol, they've found their drug of choice. It does mess them up as has been said previously, making them uninspired and lethargic when not stoned.

I smoke it irregularly at parties and sometimes just when down at the pub on a night out, it's far easier on my brain than spirits, both on the high and the hangover which is practically nonexistent for pot. Your mileage may vary, use at own risk, beware of falling rocks etc. but I see it as more benign than hard liquor. The daily smoker addicts I know are far more coherent and appear much more sane than the daily alcohol addicts I've known.

Well, that's enough anecdotes I guess, lastly a little factoid. Pot is asexual, and the plant can change gender. As only the female plants produce the high THC and other cannabinoid concentrations the growers often use powerful female hormones on their plants to ensure an all-female crop.

Now for some baseless assumptions. That means a double dose of estrogen, once from the female plant and again from any residue from the spraying. I'm not sure of the health implications of this, but it probably messes with your hormonal balance a fair bit, which can cause all sorts of problems for both sexes. I haven't found a study on this specific issue, but I've seen studies on reduced fertility in both sexes from heavy pot smoking. (sorry I can't recall the reference - too much pot perhaps :?).

Lastly, I have a little history for y'all, and some actual sources for once! Sourced (well plagiarised really) from here. After the Federal Government passed Harry J. Anslinger’s fascist anti-cannabis law, a certain group of people continued to flamboyantly break the law. Musicians. Jazz musicians. Because of this, Harry kept dossiers on all jazz musicians who sang lovingly of the herb. He hoped to round them all up in one nation wide sweep. In response to this, Cab Calloway played the song “Reefer Man”.

'Take your time son, take your time, now pass that thing slightly, lightly and politely'.

alexh123456789
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:56 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby alexh123456789 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:44 pm UTC

nazlfrag wrote:Now for some baseless assumptions. That means a double dose of estrogen, once from the female plant and again from any residue from the spraying. I'm not sure of the health implications of this, but it probably messes with your hormonal balance a fair bit, which can cause all sorts of problems for both sexes. I haven't found a study on this specific issue, but I've seen studies on reduced fertility in both sexes from heavy pot smoking. (sorry I can't recall the reference - too much pot perhaps :?).


They use plant hormones for plants, not human hormones.

More on topic, Marijuana is bad for your health because it makes you want to sit around smoking and takes away your drive to do other things. It's the same problem all addictive things have.

User avatar
segmentation fault
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:10 pm UTC
Location: Nu Jersey
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby segmentation fault » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:48 pm UTC

alexh123456789 wrote:More on topic, Marijuana is bad for your health because it makes you want to sit around smoking and takes away your drive to do other things. It's the same problem all addictive things have.


generalization. maybe it makes lazy people want to be more lazy, but if you have any semblance of ambition or motivation this doesnt happen.
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

User avatar
pollywog
Let's party like it's my postcount
Posts: 1999
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 10:10 am UTC
Location: Coolest little capital in the world
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby pollywog » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:53 am UTC

alexh123456789 wrote:More on topic, Marijuana is bad for your health because it makes you want to sit around smoking and takes away your drive to do other things. It's the same problem all addictive things have.
I'm an addict, and I work. I balance a part time job with a full time social life, I live in 2 houses and participate in housework in both of them. Many of my friends are the same, and the dole bludgers were lazy beforehand. This is just anecdotal evidence, but people who smoke a lot of weed or use other drugs aren't all (and in my experience, aren't usually) the useless, lazy, waste-of-time, good-for-nothing detriments to society that many people think they are. I find such views offensive to my central character. This isn't aimed at you specifically, but I've noticed a bit of user-bashing around here, and I tried really hard not to bring it up. But too late now. Also, have we gone over whether marijuana is addictive or not? because the standard view is that it isn't.

Sorry if this is off-topic mods.
suffer-cait wrote:hey, guys?
i'm fucking magic

User avatar
clintonius
Posts: 2755
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 9:13 pm UTC
Location: Brooklyn

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby clintonius » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:41 pm UTC

I'll refrain from making a modly remark regarding topicality, but I think it's hardly off-topic. Rather, I think it goes to show that the onus of proof (or at least significant evidence) lies on those who claim that users of a particular drug/all drugs are lazy, detrimental to society, or whatever other claims you're making.

In that spirit, I will modlily say citations are your friend. Making unsubstantiated negative claims about people is not, particularly when we know there multiple forumites who fall into the category of people you're insinuating are lazy.
kira wrote:*piles up some limbs and blood and a couple hearts for good measure*
GUYS. I MADE A HUMAN.
*...pokes at it with a stick*

alexh123456789
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:56 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby alexh123456789 » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:11 am UTC

Sorry; what I meant to highlight was the downsides of psychological addiction, from http://www.meritcare.com/healtheducation/familyhealth/pagemanager.aspx?article_set=20491

he most obvious sign of an addiction is the need to have a particular drug or substance. However, many other signs can suggest a possible addiction, such as changes in mood or weight loss or gain. (These also are signs of other conditions, too, though, such as depression or eating disorders.)

Signs that you or someone you know may have a drug or alcohol addiction include:

Psychological signals:

* use of drugs or alcohol as a way to forget problems or to relax
* withdrawal or keeping secrets from family and friends
* loss of interest in activities that used to be important
* problems with schoolwork, such as slipping grades or absences
* changes in friendships, such as hanging out only with friends who use drugs
* spending a lot of time figuring out how to get drugs
* stealing or selling belongings to be able to afford drugs
* failed attempts to stop taking drugs or drinking
* anxiety, anger, or depression
* mood swings


I'm not suggesting that it's the marijuana itself is bad, simply that addiction in general is bad. Personally, I don't think the costs outweigh the benefits- I'm just highlighting some of the effects marijuana can have.

User avatar
Malbert
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:26 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Malbert » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:34 am UTC

good website: http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml
that is the cannabis effects page, but erowid is good in general for drug knowledge if you ever need it
Weed won't benefit everyone, but it does have benefits. I lead a much less stressful life now than I did before I started smoking weed, and not for lack of reasons to be stressed. Before, if there was a large assignment that I had to do that I hadn't done yet because I procrastinated, I would just stress out and then probably not end up doing it. I would just say "fuck it" and go to sleep on the night before it was due just because I couldn't handle it. Now, I still procrastinate way to much, but when I hit that point of "I really should have done this by now", I can just sit down, say "fuck it" and work until I did what needs to be done (I still mess up on occasion though). Oh hey, stress reduction is mentioned in the site I just linked.

Another bonus that I can't back up with a source is that some people will have a much higher chance of undergoing an epiphany while high. While usually they will be unimportant, I have seen people make real changes based on these moments of realization.

These are the main new things I have to say, but there are points other people have made here that I disagree with based on personal experience and common (to ganja aficionados) knowledge.
polywog wrote:In my experience, cannabis has only ever caused auditory hallucinations ("Hey, did you hear that?" sort of thing).


I have had closed eye visuals, know people who have had closed eye visuals, and hey, that is listed on erowid as an uncommon effect of marijuana. Also, I know a guy that suggested that if you look at the same object for long enough while high, you will see things that aren't there. I have tried it, and for me it was not that spectacular and I wouldn't go as far as saying it was an open eye hallucination, but I would not discard it as a possibility.

alexh123456789 wrote:More on topic, Marijuana is bad for your health because it makes you want to sit around smoking and takes away your drive to do other things. It's the same problem all addictive things have.

I usually sit around discussing various things with those who just smoked with me for about twenty minutes, and then we usually go do other things, often productive things. This is practically protocol among some groups I blaze with.
Weed has very little addictive power. Your first comment is probably true about as often as weed is addicting. I have personally known two people who have been addicted to weed, and have known many more weed smokers than that. As a personal example, I smoke weed every day, usually more than once. However, I don't feel any affects if I stop (which I do occasionally, for varying reasons), even on my first day not smoking.

frr wrote:I don't know how marijuana smells but my friends are smoking hookah (fruit flavours and such) and I just don't think the taste is worth it. In fact the scent is a lot more intense than the taste of smoking that stuff. I'm also the kind of person who think alcohol tastes terrible. However - I'm aware that most people don't smoke marijuana because of the taste :D
Another good reason not to smoke can be the effects on the brain. If you dance on the street and get hit by a car, drink cleaning agents to see what it tastes like or otherwise do something this dumb - you will get injured or killed. Or you're doing less lethal stupid things like accidently breaking up with your girlfriend/boyfriend.
Either way - unlike the effects on the brain, the consequences of your actions will last.

To the non-smoker, marijuana smells faintly of skunk and/or mint depending on the strain and the person. Hookah is not just taste, but a much smoother tobacco high as well as smoke that is fun to play with.
Those effects on the brain of which you speak are very unlikely to come from weed smoking. The first two are most likely not real stories, but seem closer to some government scare tactics. I am just as likely to do that sober as high on weed. That is, while I do dance in the street on occasion (only at the parties in the middle of the street, so it's OK), I would never drink cleaning agents or anything like that. Your state of mind will change, but not that drastically. I'm more of a chiller than a drama person so I don't know much about accidental high breakups, but I could see it happening.

nazlfrag wrote:Pot is asexual, and the plant can change gender. As only the female plants produce the high THC and other cannabinoid concentrations the growers often use powerful female hormones on their plants to ensure an all-female crop.

A claim like that really does need a source. Go to any site that sells seeds or links to sites selling seeds. Example: http://www.marijuanaseedbanks.com/
notice how they talk about the female ratio of the seeds. That is because pot has gender. Following some internal links on that site you get http://www.marijuanaseedbanks.com/female_and_male_marijuana_plants.html
notice how they explain why you never let a male plant near your crop, and tell you to get rid of it. This is because the male plants cannot be changed into females. Also, the most common method of insuring that a crop be all female is to just clone a single mother plant into many clones and grow/harvest those.

The worst negative effects I have found are: Headaches (very very rare with good weed), and Paranoia/panic attacks (went away for me once I became used to it).
The tasty baconplague: best plague ever.

User avatar
3.14159265...
Irrational (?)
Posts: 2413
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:05 am UTC
Location: Ajax, Canada

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby 3.14159265... » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:31 am UTC

By no means am I advocating smoking pot, but I do love it and I'll share my experiences with you.

I first smoked in highschool once and didn't get high.
I then smoked in first year university, and did get high.

In the second term of my second year I began smoking regularly. My marks remained as high as they had been before, and I began having many more ideas. (I study math).

I also began understanding social situations much better. I learned to express myself better and have more confidence.

In the summer of my second year I had an NSERC-USRA (Summer studentship), and began feeling disconnected with Academia and how dishonest everyone was.

I also began smoking more regularly, and found myself at the center of many more social situations and with an improved self-esteem.

One of the best moments was when I came to the realization that all things are inter-related or as I expressed it at the time "Everything is Everything". I had many intellectually stimulating conversations while high.

I had a few friends who urged me to stop, I gave them my reasons for why I wanted to continue. Good logical reasons that they could not refute. One of them asked me to stop for a month, I decided to prove to him that he was wrong. I didn't smoke for a week at which point I caught up with all my school work and even went ahead. I then complained to him about the lack of things to do until he agreed that I could smoke again.

In the begining of my third year I moved out with my friends with whom I smoked. (I lived with 4 people, 2 of whom Ioved, 1 that I didn't mind and 1 that I disliked).

My marks remained as high. I found my projects too easy. I credit this to pot, because I had become more creative.

It's now the exam period of my third year and I have kicked myself in the nuts.

I have been sober for a month and a week now and I am begining to get a perspective on life which I had before I started smoking. I am behind in most of my classes and fell from a high 80 average to low 70 (I am hoping I can still salvage a low 70).

A perspective in which goals matter more than the present, a perspective in which "my projects are too easy, so I won't do them" is a bad idea and perhaps an excuse. A perspective in which "Academics are dishonest" was meant to be "I didn't go to work for weeks at a time, and instead of publishing flopped my NSERC". A perspective in which "I have greater confidence" means "I got comfortable with the same group and treated all non-smokers as closed minded".

I realized that my above mentioned friend agreed that I could smoke again because I bugged him for a week. More importantly he had ended the conversation with "It is your life, do with it what you want". I also realized that the effect on academics whether from hard work or a lack thereof is not seen for a semester.

I am by no means advocating for others stop smoking pot because it will damage their careers and life, I am baffled however that I didn't realize this in my case until I went sober for a month and wanted to share this experience with you.
"The best times in life are the ones when you can genuinely add a "Bwa" to your "ha""- Chris Hastings

User avatar
Malbert
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:26 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Malbert » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:57 am UTC

3.14159265... wrote:I realized that my above mentioned friend agreed that I could smoke again because I bugged him for a week. More importantly he had ended the conversation with "It is your life, do with it what you want". I also realized that the effect on academics whether from hard work or a lack thereof is not seen for a semester.

I am by no means advocating for others stop smoking pot because it will damage their careers and life, I am baffled however that I didn't realize this in my case until I went sober for a month and wanted to share this experience with you.


It's all about self control. The thing everyone has to realize is that every drug will effect every person differently. I didn't realize how much I liked weed as a life choice beyond just getting high until I went for a month sober followed by half a year of smoking less then twice a month (I did this because my position in my private high school was threatened and I thought I would fuck my life up if I got kicked out. For the record, it turned out that this break was unnecessary for those reasons but I am still glad I did it). This I think is the opposite of what you went through. In fact, my buddies were trying to convince me to come toke up with them but I had to politely refuse many, many times during that period.
In my opinion, as long as you have self control you are good to go, but losing that ... you're done. Know yourself.
The tasty baconplague: best plague ever.

User avatar
Palomides
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:08 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Palomides » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:07 pm UTC

Several people have mentioned effects such as increased creativity or innovative thought, enhanced focus, confidence, and social acuity. A lot of the time, people seem to suggest that one simply cannot explain the experience, and that it must be done personally to be understood (which bugs me a lot). Have any such claims been verified beyond anecdote?

I suppose this is a clarification of my original question.
don't raep the forum noob S:
serious kudos to anyone who successfully finds the sauce of my avatar
(I do know the sauce, I just want to see if anyone else does)

keith_
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:42 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby keith_ » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:16 am UTC

i've found no scientific studies in my ten minutes of research, but just off the top of my head, there are countless musicians, painters, scientists and other artists that have claimed its positive effects. from the jazz musicians of the twenties and thirties through the gangsta rappers of the 90's and 00's. the 'beat' poets and authors of the fifties, the hippie authors and poets of the sixties and well into contemporary writers. This is by no means proof. or even particularly good evidence, but many people considered intensely creative have championed the cause of cannabis.

I dont see why it bugs you that the only way to understand something is through personal experience. That may be the best and arguably only way to really understand a concept and especially a feeling. some books i can recommend that might point you in the right direction as to the effects marijuana (and other psychedelics) can have on creativity are 'The Electric Kool-aid Acid Test' by Tom Wolfe. its essentially a biography of Ken Kesey, the author of 'One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest' and 'Once a Great Notion' but it follows the lives of several ganja smoking deviant little hippies. Also 'The Serpent and the Rainbow' by Ethnobotanist Wade Davis. The book is actually a non-fiction story about zombies, but there's pages and chapters of good information about the psychological effects of drugs on humans. I could probobly cite some information out of it now but its being lent to a friend and my memory isnt what it used to be. to coin a cliche. . .

Anyways the best way to understand is through personal experience.

User avatar
Freakish
Posts: 909
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:47 am UTC
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Freakish » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:53 am UTC

Palomides wrote:Several people have mentioned effects such as increased creativity or innovative thought, enhanced focus, confidence, and social acuity. A lot of the time, people seem to suggest that one simply cannot explain the experience, and that it must be done personally to be understood (which bugs me a lot). Have any such claims been verified beyond anecdote?

I suppose this is a clarification of my original question.


You can't really explain being high because it's an unique experience. I have no previous references in my life that I can compare it with. Might as well be describing colour to the blind.
Freakish Inc. We completely understand the public’s concern about futuristic robots feeding on the human population

stoke
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:23 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby stoke » Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:23 am UTC

Palomides wrote:Several people have mentioned effects such as increased creativity or innovative thought, enhanced focus, confidence, and social acuity. A lot of the time, people seem to suggest that one simply cannot explain the experience, and that it must be done personally to be understood (which bugs me a lot). Have any such claims been verified beyond anecdote?

I suppose this is a clarification of my original question.


I haven't looked yet, but even if it was legal to do double blinds with cannabis I don't know how you would go about testing something like this. How do you define creative or innovative thought for a study? Would you compare the number of total ideas, good ideas, or what?

I just don't see this as being something that is really testable.


On the note of weed smokers being less motivated, this is something that probably there is currently no good research on because you can't randomly assign participants in a study to use or not use cannabis. Even if it was found that heavy cannabis users are less motivated on the aggregate this might just be because the type of person who uses heavy is already this way. However, unlike the above question, this is something that one should potentially be able to do a good study on - if the drug laws in most countries were different.

Honestly, I would try and add some citations, but I just haven't seen a lot of good research on the effects of marijuana. And I've certainly looked.

User avatar
TheBeeCeeEmm
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:13 am UTC
Location: Here and there.
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby TheBeeCeeEmm » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 am UTC

I agree that it's pretty impossible to prove whether or not it makes you more or less motivated; I know that for me personally (excuse the anecdote) I almost always feel like doing stuff when I'm high - more than when I'm not high! It's the exact opposite with the friend I always smoke with, though. I've never experienced a lasting difference when I'm not high. I think it's likely, however, that the majority of users probably don't do much WHEN they're high. But, come on, why should that be expected of anyone?
There is no certainty, only opportunity.
http://www.counterorder.com
Belial wrote:You're basically saying that my computer is nonfunctional because it doesn't make waffles.

Avatar is Copyright of Freydis.

a thing
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:18 pm UTC
Location: Chicago

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby a thing » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:56 pm UTC

stoke wrote:On the note of weed smokers being less motivated, this is something that probably there is currently no good research on because you can't randomly assign participants in a study to use or not use cannabis.


Sure you can. Provide the cannabis as an extract in a pill. However, how can you have a universal definition of productivity? Productivity is subjective.
Disclaimer: My posts may change (dramatically) within the first 15 minutes they're posted.

stoke
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:23 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby stoke » Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:29 pm UTC

a thing wrote:
stoke wrote:On the note of weed smokers being less motivated, this is something that probably there is currently no good research on because you can't randomly assign participants in a study to use or not use cannabis.


Sure you can. Provide the cannabis as an extract in a pill. However, how can you have a universal definition of productivity? Productivity is subjective.



If you are talking about marinol, then you can test the effects of delta-9-THC, which is the main active ingredient of weed - but not the only one. I've heard marinol makes users feel like shit, and I'll check this claim later if no one else gets around to it first. The wikipedia article on it points out that there are other cannabinoids that may moderate the effects. In particular, for medicinal use cannabidiol is one that has been pointed to as a potentially useful add-on. And cannabidiol is apparently not psychoactive, if the title of this article is correct: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1J-4M9RMN5-4&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=9a71f80b29325a2065e398f7f67c9088


I haven't had much time to investigate, but this guy Roger Pertwee http://www.abdn.ac.uk/ims/staff/details.php?id=rgp who I found when looking for articles to check wikipedia's article on marinol, has an interesting looking website on the endocannabinoid system if anyone wants to take a look http://www.endocannabinoid.net/. I honestly don't have a good chem/bio background having focused on math/phys more, so I'm afraid a lot of it may go above my head.

a thing
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:18 pm UTC
Location: Chicago

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby a thing » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

No, I was not talking about synthetic crap. I was talking about cooking the cannabis on low heat in oil and putting that in a pill.
Disclaimer: My posts may change (dramatically) within the first 15 minutes they're posted.

User avatar
Azrael
CATS. CATS ARE NICE.
Posts: 6491
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:16 am UTC
Location: Boston

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby Azrael » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:20 pm UTC

My thread locking sense is tingling again ...

User avatar
EsotericWombat
Colorful Orator
Posts: 2567
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 pm UTC
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby EsotericWombat » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

As to its impact on creativity, you're talking about something so entirely subjective that any attempt to get hard data on it would be laughable. On the other hand? The Beatles are said to have made a major turning point as a band in terms of creativity and maturity with the release of Rubber Soul. Incidentally, between Help! and Rubber Soul, the band met Bob Dylan, and Bob introduced them to weed. Before then, they were more or less pop-oriented and while they had a spark of creative brilliance in their arrangements, it all seemed very much confined. But Sgt. Pepper, the White Album, and Abbey Road are true fucking masterpieces.

I won't bore you all with an exhaustive list of artists who have smoked the stuff. Start with EVERYONE YOU'VE EVER LIKED and whittle it down (slightly) from there.

But no two straightedge bands don't suck.
Image

User avatar
segmentation fault
Posts: 1770
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:10 pm UTC
Location: Nu Jersey
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby segmentation fault » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:11 pm UTC

TheBeeCeeEmm wrote:I agree that it's pretty impossible to prove whether or not it makes you more or less motivated; I know that for me personally (excuse the anecdote) I almost always feel like doing stuff when I'm high - more than when I'm not high! It's the exact opposite with the friend I always smoke with, though. I've never experienced a lasting difference when I'm not high. I think it's likely, however, that the majority of users probably don't do much WHEN they're high. But, come on, why should that be expected of anyone?


i think it might be with the type of weed. ive noticed sometimes i feel like partying while others i feel like staring at a video game. also, i think it would depend on the activity being done as the effects take place. if youre already sitting on a couch youre not gonna want to move. if youre on your way out the door then the rest is history.

EsotericWombat wrote:But no two straightedge bands don't suck.


the only straightedge band ive ever liked is converge, and i think they are lying.
people are like LDL cholesterol for the internet

User avatar
EsotericWombat
Colorful Orator
Posts: 2567
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 pm UTC
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby EsotericWombat » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:08 am UTC

According to Wikipedia, some of its members say that they identify with the straightedge culture but they aren't a straightedge band.

They do happen to be one of few bands in that sort of realm that I like at all. But I don't think that they're too terribly interesting.
Image

stoke
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:23 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby stoke » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:52 am UTC

EsotericWombat wrote:As to its impact on creativity, you're talking about something so entirely subjective that any attempt to get hard data on it would be laughable. On the other hand? The Beatles are said to have made a major turning point as a band in terms of creativity and maturity with the release of Rubber Soul. Incidentally, between Help! and Rubber Soul, the band met Bob Dylan, and Bob introduced them to weed. Before then, they were more or less pop-oriented and while they had a spark of creative brilliance in their arrangements, it all seemed very much confined. But Sgt. Pepper, the White Album, and Abbey Road are true fucking masterpieces.

I won't bore you all with an exhaustive list of artists who have smoked the stuff. Start with EVERYONE YOU'VE EVER LIKED and whittle it down (slightly) from there.

But no two straightedge bands don't suck.


But you're making a logical fallacy here; even if they are correlated the weed is not necessarily causative. In the case of the Beatles, for example, you mentioned that they met Bod Dylan and Dylan introduced them to weed. So there's a third possible factor (meeting Bob Dylan and hence listening to new music) that may have influenced both their use of weed and the change in their music.

User avatar
meat.paste
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:08 pm UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby meat.paste » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:49 am UTC

There is a dearth of research on this subject (in the US, at least) because the FDA classifies pot as a schedule I drug with no known medical uses (despite the anti-nausea and glaucoma uses. Go figure. [This is a list of all the schedule 1 drugs as of April 2008]) Basically, the FDA regulates pot so tightly that it is very difficult to do approved, peer reviewed studies. This, of course, prevents proving that there are medical uses. Catch 22.

From my own experiences with pot (~once every few years), it is quite pleasurable, but it completely robs me of my initiative. If I'm smoking, then I will be sitting down and chilling. It is very strong, but deeply relaxing. I do not feel more creative when stoned. I feel a deep calm from having my mind shut up. So, it's great for occasional use and it is a much cheaper high with less of a hangover than ethanol consumption. I do have one exception to this general experience. I was in the Netherlands and smoked a joint. They mix tobacco in with their cannabis. I do not smoke, so I have no tolerance for nicotine. The resulting high was deeply unpleasant and very disorienting. I thought I was going to pass out. Icky. I didn't touch the stuff for several years. I smoked some while on strong hallucinogens at a Burning Man type festival. Again, deeply unpleasant because I was having a great deal of difficulty maintaining even a tangential grip on reality. I haven't touched it since.

I would recommend reading Erowid for more information. The site is much more reliable, in my opinion, than Wikipedia.

Off topic part - There are physical health repercussions for smoking pot. Anytime you inhale hot smoke and ash, your lungs will suffer. A water pipe or hookah will reduce the heat effects. There is a lot of tar in typical cannabis smoke compared with a cigarette. Additionally, the cannabinoid receptors in the brain are probably there for a reason. Messing with them on a chronic basis is probably not a good idea. There has also been a study showing a correlation between chronic pot use and depression in teenagers (not necessarily causal). The idea of a gateway drug is a weak one, in my mind. I suspect that ethanol is most teens' first drug experience. That would bolster the argument that ethanol is a gateway drug. My $0.02.
Huh? What?

stoke
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:23 am UTC

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby stoke » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:37 am UTC

Do you have sources for the following claims:
There are physical health repercussions for smoking pot. Anytime you inhale hot smoke and ash, your lungs will suffer.

There is a lot of tar in typical cannabis smoke compared with a cigarette.

User avatar
EsotericWombat
Colorful Orator
Posts: 2567
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:36 pm UTC
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Marijuana: Beyond Physical Health

Postby EsotericWombat » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:37 am UTC

It's only a logical fallacy if I'm making any kind of definitive statement. I didn't say that it was absolutely the weed. I happen to think that it was most likely the weed. As for a Dylan influence? There are certain songs that would point to that. Ballad of John and Yoko perhaps has a smidge. Rocky Racoon was a stylistic parody of Dylan's stuff. Dylan never did anything as musically freaky as later Beatles songs, though. Lyrically freaky, yes. But there's nothing to suggest that he was a jumping off point that lead to anything like Happiness is a Warm Gun, or anything on Abbey Road. I mean, just listen to them before and after. It's not unreasonable at all to suggest that weed was likely the major difference.

As for the tar and lung damage? Vaporizers for the win.

Re: the link between pot use and depression: I would argue that the fact that weed is used to treat depression in places where it's legal for medical use would suggest that the causation swings in the other direction. Once again though, no hard data in either direction.

Another flaw with the data collection: The studies that the FDA uses to justify its scheduling of marijuana in perpetuity are done using federally grown weed. Federally grown weed is SHIT. They grow it outdoors, in a crowded setting, and there's plenty of unwanted pollenation. It's grown for the purpose of "proving" that weed should still be illegal. It's all bogus. And what's worse, the people who are still grandfathered in as a part of the federal medical pot program are still given this shitty stuff. Luckily, their immunity to possession charges extends to other pot, I believe
Image


Return to “Serious Business”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests