People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

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ianf
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby ianf » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:30 pm UTC

General_Norris wrote:You are trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. Writers don't write male white characters because they are racist or sexist but because they are white and male. If you made them change you would still have the same gender roles around because you didn't fix them. You hid them but didn't solve them because you were busy with something that wasn't broken.


The problem does exist and your arguments just don't hold up.

A movie set in London has only one black character and he's a security guard and you tell me that it's because there are no black actors - not even one - who would be capable of playing a role in this movie.

You talk about writing as high art (e.g. Cervantes) but most characters in films and TV are one dimensional - there's pretty much no characterisation in Die Hard or Friends or whatever.

You talk about preserving white historical characters but ignore non-white historical figures who have been played by white actors.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby podbaydoor » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:50 pm UTC

Also, there's the problem where writers keep on writing goddamn white male characters where they really don't have to. Lots of white characters could conceivably be non-white and/or non-male without a huge change to the overall story - even, heavens, the main character - but they still default in droves to white male.

"Minority Sidekicks" don't happen because by some magical objective measure in the sky, minorities just so happen to always be perfect for the role of sidekick to their white best friends! They happen because for whatever reason you care to debate - society, economics, unconscious racism, white privilege, racial insecurity, conscious racism, on and on and on - writers keep writing them.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby BlackSails » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:19 pm UTC

How about that there are more famous white actors than famous black actors, so the most famous people get the lead role and the less famous people get the sidekick role? That this is the case is due to racism, but isnt racist in and of itself, and will correct itself in time.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Chen » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:50 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:How about that there are more famous white actors than famous black actors, so the most famous people get the lead role and the less famous people get the sidekick role? That this is the case is due to racism, but isnt racist in and of itself, and will correct itself in time.


Its very similar to the way Bollywood movies have Indian people in them and why Hong Kong movies have Asian people in them. If there is no reason for a main character to be any particular race, they're almost certainly going to default to either the majority race OR they'll take the race of whatever the most famous actor they can find for the role is.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Pianodog » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:25 pm UTC

Going back to the original poster ...

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In dating, I find myself drawn to people who fit my racial profile, but not always. There are very few instances where I'd consider dating out of my race, but they do exist. The person I'm reviewing must have the right body type, facial appearance, and attitude before I'll consider dating them. Maybe it sounds shallow, but if someone falls into the "not physically attractive" category, they're not for dating; they're friends.

What I find most physically attractive personally is blue or green eyes, average to slender noses, thinner lips over thicker lips, strawberry to blonde hair, athletic builds, and yes - light skin tones. There are times when I'll see someone not within those parameters and still find them striking and attractive (ex: Stacey Dash in Mo' Money), it's just far less likely to me.

Were I to sign up for a dating service, I don't think I'd specifically engage a racial filter just because I know I can find members of the other races appealing, but I can see where someone might want to if they've - never - found themselves attracted to someone of another race.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby somebody already took it » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:45 am UTC

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby iHound » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 am UTC

Personal morality and racism aside, the main point is whether or not dating sites should allow this kind of filtering. Doing so does not make the dating service racist (as every race can filter this way), nor does it outright condone racism. It's simply an option for those seeking a certain aesthetic in their partners.

Racism is a controversial topic because people like to think in the way that dealing with race constitutes racism, when in fact this is not always the case. Not liking someone because of their race may very well be purely for the aesthetic features, not necessarily due to racial stereotypes or the like.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby bvih » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:05 pm UTC

I'm not sure that's the main point here. I don't think anybody's arguing that dating services should not be allowed to filter results based on race.

It's well known even without any studies that people have certain racial dating preferences. That doesn't seem like a problem, until you ask a black woman's or an Asian man's opinion on the matter, as those are the two undesirable dating groups.

Even so, does that really make it a problem? Some people don't find redheads attractive, some people don't find curly hair attractive, some people don't find black women attractive. Is there necessarily a difference?

If there is a difference, and it is a problem, then that raises the question: what can/should be done? Here's where it becomes difficult, because if you're going to fix a problem, you need to know what causes it, and there's no simple explanation for why dating preferences are skewed racially.

Personally, I think that it is a problem. People identify with their race much more closely than they do with various physical attributes, and there are two groups clearly being discriminated against (a relatively mild and harmless form of discrimination, but discrimination nonetheless). As for what causes it, I could name several possible causes, but the most tangible one I'd say is the media and its portrayal of minority groups. Unfortunately, I do not have a good solution as to what could reasonably be done, aside from gradual shifts in culture. This is made especially difficult as few people care to discuss anything regarding race, and it seems that the majority of Americans believe that all races are on equal footing in America in spite of studies proving otherwise.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:23 pm UTC

bvih wrote: I don't think anybody's arguing that dating services should not be allowed to filter results based on race.

Why not? Without such an option, people could still decide not to hook up with people of differnet races after they have seen a picture or talked to them. But they can't sweep away people at the earliest stage, and that might already change the situation a lot.

Compare it to a bar: you can look around, and if don't like black people you can only talk to white people. But a filter would be as if you could remove the black people from your field of view entirely.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby General_Norris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:25 pm UTC

I simply agree with what iHound says. Setting a racial preference is simply an option to get better results in your search for a partner in the very asme way you can choose age and hair color.

I mean if the chances of me getting aroused with a flat chested girl are 1% and the chances of me getting aroused with a booby girl are 100% why should I waste my time with flat chested girls when I'm going to have a higher success rate with booby girls? It's inefficient and all I'm going to achieve is wasting my time and her time if I choose to do it.

[quote=bvih"]People identify with their race much more closely than they do with various physical attributes[/quote]

You said it yourself. More of a reason to have a racial filter.

Also I find ironic that you argue in favor of positive discrimination and then complain about harmless discrimination.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby cactus box » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:46 pm UTC

The title of this thread is 'People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?'
For most people replying to this thread, the answer effectively amounts to 'no, we don't'.
But who's 'we'?
....And there's the catch.

Chances are if you're a black woman or Asian man, you would. You would care if the majority of the human population prefers to date someone else over you.
But when we say 'we' we're not really talking about them are we?

And isn't it interesting how defensive people get about having racial preferences? I find that very interesting indeed...

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby bvih » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:04 pm UTC

@Zamfir
I simply don't see a strong argument where they should be legally forced to remove said filter, not to mention the legal mess that'd mean for this sort of website (I may not like them, but I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of making them illegal).

@General_Norris
Since you haven't produced any proof, do you concede that opportunity is not equal among the races?
The thing is, even the people who support affirmative action will say that it's not an ideal solution. There is demonstrated harmful discrimination within the United States, and affirmative action's purpose is to counteract it in an effort to make things more equal, not imbalanced in favor of minorities. I'm actually not a fan of positive discrimination, but I don't have any better ideas, and ignoring the problem accomplishes nothing.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby cactus box » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:19 pm UTC

several people have said, basically, 'i prefer one ethnic group over another, but that doesn't mean i'm racist, that is, that doesn't mean i think one race is superior to another' (with various inappropriate analogies to illustrate the point)

but most of us pick our potential romantic partners on the basis of perceived superior personal attributes (physical, intellectual, moral, etc, whatever you consider to be an important attribute). and if race is one of the things that's affecting that overall perception, then can you still say you pick members of a particular race, but that that's no indication of belief in racial superiority?

what it boils down to is...do you believe that some races are superior to others? and does that affect who you choose to date?
hint: the answer lies beyond your conscious awareness

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby General_Norris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:51 pm UTC

Since you haven't produced any proof, do you concede that opportunity is not equal among the races?


No, I just saw that the thread was going back to the OP and thus didn't comment on it.

There is demonstrated harmful discrimination within the United States, and affirmative action's purpose is to counteract it in an effort to make things more equal


But it's not useful, in the very same that killing all white people as a way to give black people more chances is not a good solution. Letting unskilled workers because they are from race X is not going to achieve equality, all it does is making people from race X look bad and harder to prove themselves as worthy beyond their race.

Also affirmative action produces "equality" of results not equality of opportunity. You are not solving racism, you are just covering it under a mantle. Those who should get hired should be the best prepared no matter what their race sex or religion is. Fight against whatever goes against that but don't change that rule.

ignoring the problem accomplishes nothing.


Nobody is arguing that you should ignore the problem.

cactus box wrote: but most of us pick our potential romantic partners on the basis of perceived superior personal attributes [...] then can you still say you pick members of a particular race, but that that's no indication of belief in racial superiority?


No, you don't choose on the basis of perceived superior attributes, you choose on the basis of the perceived attributes that will make you, the subject happier. That doesn't mean that my tastes apply to everyone else. In other words, when it comse to making you happy and getting you a boner it's a superior choice but that doesn't make that person inherently superior.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby bvih » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:07 pm UTC

You ask me for proof, and when I provide it, you don't accept it? Doesn't seem very logical to me.

You say that affirmative action isn't successful, prove that it isn't. You wanted me to prove that there's a problem, I have. Now you say there's a problem with the proposed solution, so prove it.

In a best case scenario, it's a short-term solution that could have long-term results. The idea is to first get more minorities into the industry, and then after a few years, once they've become commonplace enough that people are accustomed to the idea of minorities as skilled workers and are less likely to discriminate when hiring, get rid of affirmative action since it's no longer needed. Who knows if things will actually work out this way, but at least there's a chance.

You talk about unskilled workers, but even with affirmative action they're at worst less qualified for a position than somebody else, but they're still qualified. You mention how people who get hired should be the most qualified, when the studies have shown that white males are more likely to be hired even given the same credentials as somebody sounding foreign, so what's to say that they don't get hired even when they have slightly worse credentials? Resumes aren't entirely objective either, so personal biases can easily manifest when you're choosing who you hire. The system as it stands is not equal.

General_Norris wrote:
ignoring the problem accomplishes nothing.

Nobody is arguing that you should ignore the problem.

Then come up with a better solution. I don't like the idea behind affirmative action either, but I don't have any better ideas, and I like the notion of keeping things how they are even less.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby General_Norris » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:01 pm UTC

I was going to make a long post but I would rather make a new topic and stop derailing this one.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Chen » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:14 pm UTC

cactus box wrote:Chances are if you're a black woman or Asian man, you would. You would care if the majority of the human population prefers to date someone else over you.
But when we say 'we' we're not really talking about them are we?


I'm an Asian man and I don't care. I wouldn't accept someone not hiring me or refusing to serve me because of my race, but I have no problems if someone doesn't find me attractive based on race. I personally don't find certain other people attractive and some of those could certainly be based on race. There is no need for there to be some sort of forced equality in terms of what people find attractive.

several people have said, basically, 'i prefer one ethnic group over another, but that doesn't mean i'm racist, that is, that doesn't mean i think one race is superior to another' (with various inappropriate analogies to illustrate the point)

but most of us pick our potential romantic partners on the basis of perceived superior personal attributes (physical, intellectual, moral, etc, whatever you consider to be an important attribute). and if race is one of the things that's affecting that overall perception, then can you still say you pick members of a particular race, but that that's no indication of belief in racial superiority?

what it boils down to is...do you believe that some races are superior to others? and does that affect who you choose to date?
hint: the answer lies beyond your conscious awareness


Superior in terms of being attractive to you perhaps. Its a very narrow definition of superior though. I mean its like saying black people are superior at having dark skin, compared to white people. Its hard to argue against that. When people talk about racial superiority rarely does it simply mean one single attribute. Recall also that for many a preference is just that. There are tons of tiny different things that can make one person attractive over another. Saying you prefer one thing doesn't necessarily imply the rest are completely unattractive or anything.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Griffin » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:59 am UTC

Huh... I've been thinking about my own preferences, and I've come to a weird realization.

I don't like blondes (especially . Like really don't like them, apparently. I can't find a single instance of a blonde person I could see myself with, and rare is the situation where I find one even somewhat attractive. In fact, just thinking of being involved with a blond person romantically feels kind of... unsettling? Suddenly, I think I may understand a little bit of the "can't see myself with a black/asian/fat persont" viewpoint a little better.

Of course, its a lot easier for the target to fix than race (especially since my favoured hair colours are not naturally occuring) but its still interesting to think about, since I didn't even realize I was applying a sort of unconcious filtering of blondes when searching.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby bvih » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:23 am UTC

@General_Norris
I await your topic then. I still don't see how you can argue for logic and then disregard scientific studies.

@Chen
Individual cases are quite different from the masses. There are plenty of Asian guys dating white girls, just as there are plenty of black girls dating white guys. On a whole however, the gender ratios are far from equal.

I guess it's back to the question of whether or not these imbalances are a problem to begin with. Some people take issue with it, and some do not. To me both sides have a point. People should be allowed to date who they want, why should a black woman care that many black men prefer white girls? That's his business, not hers. On the other hand, something weird is going on culturally to cause this asymmetry. For example, could you imagine an Asian man starring in this commercial?

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Peter Galbavy » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:52 am UTC

I'll repeat my earlier (non flippant) point. I don't believe that it's not about racial equality, it's about equality of opportunity. If a dating site refuses you because you are of a specific race that is wrong. If other members of a dating site don't find you attractive that is not wrong. You have had the opportunity to present yourself and other have chosen to not take you up on your sales pitch.

The question of filters being good or bad is more likely down to how they are presented - if a filter is auto-set to a racial match to your own stated racial characteristics then that may be creepy, but can you change it easily and is it obvious ? The site is just providing you a facility to naoor down your search the way that you may in a real life situation - filter, filter, filter.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby ianf » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:56 pm UTC

bvih wrote:I guess it's back to the question of whether or not these imbalances are a problem to begin with. Some people take issue with it, and some do not. To me both sides have a point. People should be allowed to date who they want, why should a black woman care that many black men prefer white girls? That's his business, not hers. On the other hand, something weird is going on culturally to cause this asymmetry.


This is the heart of the problem. On the one hand people should be allowed to date who they want. On the other, these imbalances can cause a problem.

There are a number of reasons why a black woman would care that "black men prefer white girls". And the first is that sentence I've put in quotes ... what does that actually mean? Do black men actually prefer white girls or is there something else going on? For example, in the UK with a 10% non-white population, most girls that black men meet will be white. So, just the math would say that if people dated without regard to race, most black men would be dating white women.

But then there are a host of issues to do with problems in the world - things which wouldn't be an issue if the world was ideal, but are an issue now. For a black woman bringing up a black male child, she wants a good role model for that child - so he can achieve his potential. If all the successful black men are married to white women, then it becomes difficult for that child to get that role model father. If the black woman marries a white man, then there will be situations where the white father lacks the experiences of a black father and cannot act as a role model in that respect. This situation is complicated by the fact that a mixed race child (between a black and white couple) will usually be perceived as black and will encounter situations which are alien to the white parent.

Then there is the stereotype issue. One of my friends has a son who has just started dating and she is seeing a pattern emerging of girls who don't have any black friends but want to date black guys. Whether that's based on stereotypes or whatever, she sees it as a potential problem. She sees it different from girls who have a group of friends from a variety of racial backgrounds who are dating "colour blind".

So, there are issues - and the big problem is that any individual should be able to date who they like. It's difficult to see a solution. Perhaps it's to ignore the dating issues and focus on the broader problems in society. You would then hope that the dating situation changes (or becomes less significant) as society itself changes.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby meatyochre » Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:07 am UTC

This is an issue that hits close to home for me. I (white girl) was raised by a racist white father and a passive white mother. I thought my entire life that I would only ever want to date white men. Then I was contacted by a Filipino/Mexican (brown man)--through okcupid, ironically. We're engaged to be engaged, happy as pigs in excrement, and I would say NOW (in the highly unlikely event of a breakup) that I would never again date a white man.

That's hypocritical, I know, but it's the truth.

So although I don't think anyone ought to be "forced" to look at every race, it certainly turned out well for me when my little checkbox was expanded.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Ouiser » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:50 pm UTC

ianf wrote:
bvih wrote:If the black woman marries a white man, then there will be situations where the white father lacks the experiences of a black father and cannot act as a role model in that respect.
.



This is an interesting assertion. What situations would those be?

I think this question is ridiculous from the outset because of "People's mate preferences are racist." This statement can't be taken as fact unless you define familiarity equal to racism. People prefer the familiar. Most of what is described here can be attributed to that. It's why most people subconsciously end up with mates similar to their parents in a lot of ways related to personality as well as looks. It's why even in this day of cheap travel, it's still rare to find someone who's been out of the country and most settle within a couple hundred miles of their birthplace. Yes, these situations are changing. So are mate preferences. Just not fast enough for some I guess. No reason to force it.

Might as well say, "People are comfortable with what they know. Do we care?" No we don't care.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby bobjoesmith » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

for starters, I am going to call you all racist considering that your discussions revolve around black and white, and excluding another half of the world. Racism exists, as a subconcious thought. We, as humans, are used to avoiding predators: years of experience cannot be unlearned. Therefore, anything foreign is considered "dangerous." However, it depends on our enviroment: someone brought up in the north-east may be uncomfortable around african americans, while mexicains may be wary of asians. If we were raised in an enviroment saturated with a certain race or group, then we become accustomed to it, but are still scared of other groups. For instance, a woman raised from very young in a convent could be very afraid of men if they were there just for a... "internship" (im not sure what it is called exactly). This would not make her sexist, but rather just unaccustomed. Also, we as humans will do two things when confronted: run or attack. Some will choose to avoid contact and shy away; others will become aggressive. This too is part of our nature.



However, on the topic of spousal prefrences, that is totally irrelevant with "racism" but everything to do with race. Racism is perceived with a very negative connotation, but in its most basic form, it just means we identify people by race. Giving a crude example, women of all races are "hot" (just look at the variety of tv/movie stars), but will you take all of them as your wife? You are not discriminating by beauty, but rather as a person of a certain race, we share more than just appearance with a potential spouse. There will be cultural similarities and coinciding heritages. Its not so much a negative discrimination, as much as a racial similarity: with someone who speaks your language, shares ur history, understands your culutre, you will find a much closer relation.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby ianf » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:10 pm UTC

Ouiser wrote:
ianf wrote:If the black woman marries a white man, then there will be situations where the white father lacks the experiences of a black father and cannot act as a role model in that respect.



This is an interesting assertion. What situations would those be?


Well, the sort of things I was thinking about were handling racism. A mixed race child may find themselves experiencing racism, which their black parent will have experience of, but their white parent will not.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby meatyochre » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:17 pm UTC

ianf wrote:
Ouiser wrote:
ianf wrote:If the black woman marries a white man, then there will be situations where the white father lacks the experiences of a black father and cannot act as a role model in that respect.



This is an interesting assertion. What situations would those be?


Well, the sort of things I was thinking about were handling racism. A mixed race child may find themselves experiencing racism, which their black parent will have experience of, but their white parent will not.


A white parent would frequently be the object of racism when seen in public with his/her wife and child. Not when by him/herself, I guess. But as the white half of an interracial relationship, I am subjected to racism from family and strangers, I witness it directed at my boyfriend, and if we had a child, I would be more aware of racial issues than a white person who never dated outside their race.

I do think it's a valid point that whites in general would tend to be less aware of racial issues, but once you have a child with someone of another race, that white person becomes VERY cognizant of racial tensions, out of necessity.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby ianf » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:09 pm UTC

meatyochre wrote:A white parent would frequently be the object of racism when seen in public with his/her wife and child. Not when by him/herself, I guess. But as the white half of an interracial relationship, I am subjected to racism from family and strangers, I witness it directed at my boyfriend, and if we had a child, I would be more aware of racial issues than a white person who never dated outside their race.

I do think it's a valid point that whites in general would tend to be less aware of racial issues, but once you have a child with someone of another race, that white person becomes VERY cognizant of racial tensions, out of necessity.


I get what you are saying here, but I think there is still a difference between direct experience and second hand experience. I also think that experience of racism in one situation helps understand racism in a different situation, but is not the same as being in that second situation.

For example, if you had a mixed race child and that child was being bullied at school for racial reasons, you would understand, you would empathise and you would bring some of your own experiences of being racially abused to the situation. But you have never been in that particular situation . And I do realise that it is possible to give good advice about situations you have never experienced, but that is the sort of situation I was originally thinking of.

I'd also say that even if you are part of a couple, your experiences of the same event of racism may be different. If someone is racially abusive to a couple, the chances are that it's targeted at one person in the couple, rather than the couple as a single entity.

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I just think there are degrees of empathy and experience.

The only part of what you say that I disagree with is the bit where you say "a white parent would frequently be the object of racism". That's definitely something specific to a region or area. Here in the UK, about half of black men (for example) are in relationships with white women. So it's normal to see interracial couples and racism from family or strangers is not something you would necessarily experience frequently (or even at all).

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby mosc » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:35 pm UTC

Sorry to break in here but I have an entirely different way of looking at this than the discussion is covering.

"People's mate preferences are racist" is not exactly fair, it's more like "People's mate preferences are SUBJECTIVE". I'm saying that skin color and other general physical traits are merely just some of the often incredibly specific and often superficial subjective criteria we use for mate preference. I don't see it as racist, it's often more based on similarities to the individual. I mean, you look in a mirror and try to like what you see. It's only natural you find related criteria in a mate preferable. Is looking for a muscular mate any less subjective than looking for one with black skin?

There's nothing fundamentally different to me about preferences based on culture, skin color, religion, etc than there are from the criterias of "a nice ass", smart, funny, etc.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Cassaster » Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:27 pm UTC

In a word, no. What appeals to your aesthetic and specific choice in mate is your business. Myself, I have a wide range of qualities, both aesthetic and character, that appeals to me. I will admit that I've avoided certain groups as interest points due to my experience with them not having these traits (not a racially based decision, more like I don't look for mates at frat parties.). I see this as a very likely situation for those that "discriminate" based on race. Don't get me wrong, I understand that simply filtering them out of view seems to be a rather "racist" way of going about things, but if the aesthetic doesn't appeal then they shouldn't waste their time. If their general experience says that the culture (obviously a generalization) isn't what they desire, then they should be able to filter that as well. If you want to go out of your way to cut out racial filtering, you may as well cut out eye color, hair color, weight, height, and other things as they're discriminatory tools, too, just ones that draw less attention.

I bet you'll see all sorts of trends erupt if you go into every category. Males seem to search less for larger women. Women search for older men much more often than men search for older women. Gasp. The culture of these groups, as generalized, and the general aesthetic appeals. Now, they can tip toe their way ever so kindly and with Basic Human Decency through every listing, or they can simply go about things in the way that the sites were developed, speedily. Seems ridiculous to require someone to go through every single listing as a testament to thoroughness and kindness on a medium that's often used because one simply doesn't have the time to do exactly that in everyday life or is having a hard time finding an ideal mate.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby wendy1851 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:21 am UTC

No that’s not true. How silly to be based on race :/ Why should we?
Maybe your country is homogenous, so, we understand.
In France, in Paris, interracial couples are common: in the suburbs, on the streets, i see them everywhere.If my mate is a beautiful Indian and makes me good Indian food, where is the problem ?

ps: sorry for bad english
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby HermanBlount » Fri May 07, 2010 4:46 pm UTC

The initial vetting process of finding a mate is based on completely superficial characteristics. I'm not going to approach a woman to find out if our personalities are compatible until I determine that she meets a minimum level of physical attractiveness (blind people may have differing methods). Guess what? Race is tied to physical characteristics and therefore has at least some bearing on people's choices.

I have never sat down and logically worked through what my criteria for "minimum level of physical attractiveness" because, well, attraction is instinctual and illogical. However, it's safe to say that interracial coupling is happening much more frequently than in the past. So this "problem" seems to be taking care of itself (or whatever we're doing seems to be working).
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby casiguapa » Fri May 07, 2010 9:05 pm UTC

HermanBlount wrote: However, it's safe to say that interracial coupling is happening much more frequently than in the past. So this "problem" seems to be taking care of itself (or whatever we're doing seems to be working).

As someone who is in an interracial coupling, the frequency may be higher than it was in the past, but make no mistake it's still incredible difficult. People may not be openly hostile towards you, but I STILL get looks when I walk down the street with my white boyfriend in certain parts of the country.
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby thc » Sat May 08, 2010 6:35 am UTC

Ouiser wrote:I think this question is ridiculous from the outset because of "People's mate preferences are racist." This statement can't be taken as fact unless you define familiarity equal to racism. People prefer the familiar. Most of what is described here can be attributed to that. It's why most people subconsciously end up with mates similar to their parents in a lot of ways related to personality as well as looks.


That's just plain stupid. Besides being flat out wrong, it's completely missing the entire point of the discussion - which is, people DON'T date within their own racial groups at the same frequency.

wendy1851 wrote:In France, in Paris, interracial couples are common: in the suburbs, on the streets, i see them everywhere.If my mate is a beautiful Indian and makes me good Indian food, where is the problem ?

See this is a clear example of a person who just does not get it. At all. By show of hands, how many people here who think that racial preferences are okey-dokey and no problemo are also white, heterosexual and male.*

That's what I thought.

bvih wrote:you need to know what causes it, and there's no simple explanation for why dating preferences are skewed racially.

I posit the explanation IS simple. Turn on your TV. Or watch a damn movie.

OT: This is THE reason Avatar made me want to vomit: reinforcing ridiculous and completely worn out racial stereotypes all the while acting smug about it and pretending like your movie is, like, progressive, dude. Fuck you, Cameron.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Woopate » Sat May 08, 2010 7:36 am UTC

Alright, so people tend to date within their own race, which may or may not be racism. Is this a problem? Can it be fixed?

I find it very difficult to imagine a scenario where a free country could rectify this situation. The only conceivable way would be through evolution, if you will. Eventually, through the limited interracial couplings that are occuring, the majority of the populace slowly trends towards a homogenized race. As the homogenized race grows in population, other races become acclimatized to it, and the number of people who mate with the homogenized race increases. I don't see this happening any time soon, and it doesn't necessarily change the fact, only make it a null point.

I have dated out of race, and within race. I have dated within race more often than out of race, but I do not believe that is due to any intrinsic tendency for me to prefer my own race, so much as my race is much more common where I live than other races. Simple statistics, in my case at least, accounts for the inequality.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby thc » Sat May 08, 2010 5:18 pm UTC

Woopate wrote:Alright, so people tend to date within their own race, which may or may not be racism.
No dude. Gah. As I said earlier, that's not even true and also completely misses the point. Furthermore, all your personal anecdote does is reinforce the statistics presented in the article.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Tehgnarr » Sun May 09, 2010 8:32 pm UTC

First of all, to answer the OP's question:

No, we don't. And by "we" I mean this asian-looking guy, who has korean an uzbekian and russian ancestors, who was born in Moscow and now has the german citizenship, currently living in Mannheim, Germany. Oh, and who is dating a girl who is from Georgia (the country not the state). So by "we" I mean "me". And I am the one who should be bothered, right? But in the opinion of this minority representative (btw. at least 2 billion people who look like me on the planet, but I will still call me and the likes of me "minority" just not to derail this thread). I am not bothered because people who wont date out of their race are stupid (yeah, I said it) and do not understand the global geopolitical tendencies. Also, they do not understand genetics. As the result of this ignorance they will become extinct (not sure 'bout the grammar here, but english is not my native =). So the problem will solve itself in a couple of centuries. So, to answer this question:

Alright, so people tend to date within their own race, which may or may not be racism. Is this a problem? Can it be fixed?


It isn't a problem, mainly because it will fix itself. Just think in a bigger scale. Also: love.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby thc » Sun May 09, 2010 10:18 pm UTC

somebody already took it wrote:Subject: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?
thc wrote:That's just plain stupid. Besides being flat out wrong, it's completely missing the entire point of the discussion

Can you please use a gentler tone? I find the hostility your post expresses to be disenchanting.

Sorry. I try to get less pissed off at the internet, but sometimes it's hard. Sensitive issue + willful ignorance = *shaking my fists*

Anyway, the point I mentioned is the second part of the sentence that you didn't quote.

Tehgnarr wrote:First of all, to answer the OP's question:
I am not bothered because people who wont date out of their race are stupid (yeah, I said it) and do not understand the global geopolitical tendencies. Also, they do not understand genetics. As the result of this ignorance they will become extinct . So the problem will solve itself in a couple of centuries. :


That's not the issue. I'll state it again: the problem is not that people won't date outside their own race, the problem is that different race-genders combinations date outside their race at differing frequences, which leads to certain race-gender combinations being heavily preferred while others are heavily unpreferred. You've got it completely backwards. Globalization won't automatically solve the problem, in fact, the problem exists DUE to globalization.

Also WHAT?!?!? Someone who happens to be heavily attracted to a particular ethnicity, knows it, and decides not to waste everybody's time by forcing himself/herself to date outside that preference - is "stupid" and "doesn't understand genetics"..........................?

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby big boss » Mon May 10, 2010 5:07 am UTC

Tehgnarr wrote: I am not bothered because people who wont date out of their race are stupid (yeah, I said it) and do not understand the global geopolitical tendencies. Also, they do not understand genetics. As the result of this ignorance they will become extinct (not sure 'bout the grammar here, but english is not my native =). So the problem will solve itself in a couple of centuries. So, to answer this question:


I fail to see how they dont understand genetics, in fact I think people that realize this understand genetic quite well. They are attracted to a certain ethnicity because of evolution and genetics, to that person (subconsciously at least) the ethnicity they are attracted to possesses traits that are favorable for child rearing and propagating their young etc and they realize this and act on it.
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Tehgnarr
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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby Tehgnarr » Mon May 10, 2010 7:17 am UTC

well, yeah, as far as I know, "crossbreeding" or mixing up the gene-pool gives a higher probability of getting better (as in healthier) and stronger offspring, than just staying in the same kind of gene-pool. I am sorry, that I can not elaborate further on this, but I am just lacking vocabulary.

the "stupid" thing was just a little flaim-bait, I apologize for that and take it back.

point is: it isn't that much of a problem, because very much like the particles of two or more different kinds of gases in a closed container, people wont stay at the place they were born, but instead move around thus becoming a more and more homogene "substance". this is the "geopolitical tendency" I was talking about earlier.

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Re: People's mate preferences are racist. Do we care?

Postby hoot the mottle » Mon May 10, 2010 10:11 am UTC

This is nonsense, I haven't seen anyone adequately define "race" yet.

Race is a purely cultural invention and regardless of your genetic reality (of which you may not even be aware) you identify with the group and choose the mate that suits you psychologically. More Thought Police coming to tell you what you want is wrong.

Is someone also going to say that choosing a male choosing a female partner is sexist too? Nonsense.
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