Vellyr wrote:A person that bases their beliefs on faith is still using reason, but it's demonstrably not a good kind of reasoning, because there's simply no evidence that it reliably leads to a better understanding of the universe compared to empiricism.
When Einstein came up with the theory of relativity, he was basing it on some mathematics but also a leap of faith (to my understanding) regarding a theory about which he had no empirical evidence. Afterward,
empiricism seems to prove that he was correct...or at least on the right track...
What I'm trying to communicate here is that personal religion is (hopefully) based on some reason but requires a leap of faith, and that the leap of faith is also perfectly reasonable...and while it may not be the BEST kind of reason, I wouldn't necessarily say that it's "not a good kind" of reasoning. (for my money/soul, "My dad gave me this book" is as reasonable a method as any for coming up with beliefs regarding subjects which Science
magazine has yet to explain thoroughly)
...the most dangerous people (and probably scientists too) are the ones who forget (or don't understand) the leaps of faith which underline their beliefs. The most boring people & scientists are the ones who take no leaps of faith. Leaps of faith should be celebrated (and remembered and monitored). If you live in a world where there is no faith but only empiricism...i get it...I'm just not holding my breath for any big scientific advances coming from your work...
uncivlengr wrote:Whether or not a particular person stubbornly decides that they can rely purely on faith is immaterial - they're demonstrably wrong whether they agree or not (by the simple fact that faith leads people to contradictory beliefs), and making them understand or agree with this isn't a requirement of doing so.
I agree that relying purely on faith for a lifetime's worth of decisions is pretty silly. What I have a problem with is the assertion that faith is somehow faulty because it leads people to contradictory beliefs. I don't think faith leads people to contradictory beliefs, I think that life leads people to contradictory beliefs, and people either chose to resolve the conflict...or they don't.
Are you saying that the scientific path doesn't lead to contradictions?
You start out in physics class and F=ma...holy shit, F=ma!...this is so cool!...I can tell you how fast a baseball will go if you push on it with 20N for 5s. Hey, guess what...U=mgh...holy shit, U=mgh!...I can tell you how fast a roller coaster will be going if it rolls down a 50ft ramp. And then... "none of this shit is really true"...it just looks true...but there's all this other shit going on which F=ma doesn't explain. F=ma is wrong.
Now you're exposed to a conflicted belief structure (or at least I am, you may be perfect empirical machines, but when I submitted my physics exam rocking the F=ma, I believed that I would get an A because I was RIGHT!!!)...What you do with these conflicted beliefs is up to you. (if you're like me, you run off to mechanical engineering where me and F=ma can be happy together...forever
...But the main point is that conflicted beliefs aren't indicitive of a faulty process, they are part of a good process.