Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby snow5379 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:07 pm UTC

Question: if she can prove in civil court that she was raped, can she than use that to get him incarcerated? I'm not sure how the legal system works, but if she can, I'm all for her to be seen in civil court. It is just disgusting to think that a rapist can just "pay off" someone if they're rich enough and it's equally disgusting to think some people would try to take advantage of that to make money.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby nitePhyyre » Thu May 16, 2013 10:09 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:What the hell? The evidence is TOO STRONG, so it must not be rape?
Not 'it must not be rape' but rather 'I doubt her evidence exists'. Think about it. There exists, more or less, incontrovertible evidence. For some reason the police believe the victim is lying so they can get money. They also determine that UCLA Santa Monica Rape Treatment Center has committed felonies by conspiring with her to fabricate evidence to frame a famous basketball player. Now sure, cops are shitheads. But even for them, this is a little much. Oh, and while they are making the decision that everyone involved is felonious liars, they aren't going to prosecute.

You know how you can tell the above isn't true? If it was true, the city and police department are much juicier lawsuit targets. The fact that she isn't suing them as well? Its most likely not true.

Роберт wrote:Look long and hard at the manufactured scenario you just wrote. The consent to sex happens right on the edge of when the person is capable of informed consent. So if in the scenario you set up they made out for 10 minutes without explicitly agreeing to anything, but otherwise the scenario was the same, it would be rape.

Now, you're expecting to be able to clearly tell how drunk a stranger is to know whether or not they are capable of consent? That it's not a bad practice to regularly get within minutes of raping someing?
No I'm not expecting that at all. I'm just pointing out that what the 3 of you are calling trivially obvious, isn't.

Роберт wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:Alcohol is as close to an aphrodisiac that we have.
[...]
Some psychoactive substances such as alcohol, cannabis, methaqualone, GHB and MDMA can increase libido and sexual desire. However these drugs are not aphrodisiacs in the strict sense of the definition, as they do not consistently produce aphrodisiac effects as their main action and often actually impair function (hence, Shakespeare's famed statement that alcohol "provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance").
[...]
There, FTFY. Now, you aren't agreeing with me any more.

snow5379 wrote:I'm pretty sure she's just making things up since right off the bat she was looking to gain money from it. Furthermore it's 2 years after the fact so, conveniently enough for her, the cops can't double check her nonexistent physical "evidence." Meanwhile the millionaire basketball player who probably does a different chick every week, and who has no need to rape anyone, is helping police in any way he can. I mean 1+1=?

I mean, hell, if getting drunk at a bar and hitting on the richest looking guy there could make you a millionaire because of feminist "rape culture" then there is something wrong with society and the way we look at gender and rape in general. I really hate to bring this up but if the genders here were reversed, and she was the millionaire female basketball player... but these girls read all sorts of stuff on the internet and think they can get away with anything just because of their gender. It's sad really.
First off. A 2 year delay isn't all that remarkable, nor is it indicative of some plot. The wheels of justice turn slowly. Without more details, it could simply be an example case of needing tort reform.

I'll jump on the anti-feminist bandwagon when it rolls around, but here, it is simply unwarranted. The fact that you can lie and say mean, nasty, things about rich people and then try to milk them for money has nothing to do with 'feminism', 'rape culture', 'gender equality', etc. Nothing.

It is greed. Pure and Simple.

Heisenberg wrote:Do you understand how the police work? The police don't hand you money. So saying that when she took her evidence to the police she was going "after money instead of trying to incarcerate the guy" is not consistent with reality.
She's filed a civil lawsuit, but now we're learning shortly after the alleged incident, she went to LAPD cops who dismissed her claim because her story didn't make sense. What's more ... law enforcement says at the time she went to cops, she was already talking about a lawsuit, and that made them even more suspicious.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Nylonathatep » Thu May 16, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

snow5379 wrote:Question: if she can prove in civil court that she was raped, can she than use that to get him incarcerated? I'm not sure how the legal system works, but if she can, I'm all for her to be seen in civil court. It is just disgusting to think that a rapist can just "pay off" someone if they're rich enough and it's equally disgusting to think some people would try to take advantage of that to make money.


The legal system is complicated and I don't think many rape trial went on civil but not criminal. The closest thing that comes to mind is the O.J Simpson Trial. He was acquitted for the murder of his ex-wife in criminal court, but the verdict in civil trial went against and he have to pay millions of dollars in damages to his ex-wife's family.

Still O.J went on Criminal Trial first. This case just went straight to Civil court.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Thu May 16, 2013 10:14 pm UTC

nitePhyyre wrote:
Роберт wrote:
nitePhyyre wrote:Alcohol is as close to an aphrodisiac that we have.
[...]
Some psychoactive substances such as alcohol, cannabis, methaqualone, GHB and MDMA can increase libido and sexual desire. However these drugs are not aphrodisiacs in the strict sense of the definition, as they do not consistently produce aphrodisiac effects as their main action and often actually impair function (hence, Shakespeare's famed statement that alcohol "provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance").
[...]
There, FTFY. Now, you aren't agreeing with me any more.

I posted a link about how the lowering of inhibitions is actually a placebo effect, not the alcohol, and a link about how alcohol decreases sexual performance. That means that homeopathy is a better aphrodisiac than alcohol. It has the placebo effect AND it doesn't work against it with the real effects.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby doogly » Thu May 16, 2013 10:15 pm UTC

snow5379 wrote:I don't think having different views makes people shitty people.

This isn't just a question of "views." If you happen to like Star Trek more than Star Wars, that is just a "different view." We're talking about someone who was raped here.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby snow5379 » Thu May 16, 2013 10:19 pm UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:
snow5379 wrote:Question: if she can prove in civil court that she was raped, can she than use that to get him incarcerated? I'm not sure how the legal system works, but if she can, I'm all for her to be seen in civil court. It is just disgusting to think that a rapist can just "pay off" someone if they're rich enough and it's equally disgusting to think some people would try to take advantage of that to make money.


The legal system is complicated and I don't think many rape trial went on civil but not criminal. The closest thing that comes to mind is the O.J Simpson Trial. He was acquitted for the murder of his ex-wife in criminal court, but the verdict in civil trial went against and he have to pay millions of dollars in damages to his ex-wife's family.

Still O.J went on Criminal Trial first. This case just went straight to Civil court.


So... one court found him guilty and one court found him innocent? I think the travesty here isn't the rape but rather 1. how someone can be tried twice for the same crime and 2. how she was denied a criminal trial. I guess that brings up the question:

Should ALL criminal accusations go to court? I'm thinking yes? Why don't they?

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Nylonathatep » Thu May 16, 2013 10:39 pm UTC

snow5379 wrote:
Nylonathatep wrote:
snow5379 wrote:Question: if she can prove in civil court that she was raped, can she than use that to get him incarcerated? I'm not sure how the legal system works, but if she can, I'm all for her to be seen in civil court. It is just disgusting to think that a rapist can just "pay off" someone if they're rich enough and it's equally disgusting to think some people would try to take advantage of that to make money.


The legal system is complicated and I don't think many rape trial went on civil but not criminal. The closest thing that comes to mind is the O.J Simpson Trial. He was acquitted for the murder of his ex-wife in criminal court, but the verdict in civil trial went against and he have to pay millions of dollars in damages to his ex-wife's family.

Still O.J went on Criminal Trial first. This case just went straight to Civil court.


So... one court found him guilty and one court found him innocent? I think the travesty here isn't the rape but rather 1. how someone can be tried twice for the same crime and 2. how she was denied a criminal trial. I guess that brings up the question:

Should ALL criminal accusations go to court? I'm thinking yes? Why don't they?



The difference between Criminal Court and Civil Court:

In the Criminal court, the accused have to prove, beyond a resonable doubt, facing a panel of selected jury, that the party is guiity.
In Civil Court, Both accused and the defendant present their case before the judge and the judge decide a judgement on both parties.

In Criminal Court, you are either found guilty or innocent of the crime and they issue a sentence.
In Civil Court, the judge can award damages and certain judgement that either prohibits or force one party to perform certain actions.

Civil Court cannot sentence anyone to jail.

In The OJ Simpson case, the Criminal Court found him not guilty of the murder of his ex-wife and her boyfriend. The Civil Court found him liable for the death of his wife and her boyfriend. There is a subtle difference in the language of the law.

In this case.. (according to sources) the DA deemed there's insufficient evidence to have a case against Nick Young. I'm not sure if there's still any other avenue the alleged victim can present her case in the criminal court.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Negated » Thu May 16, 2013 10:43 pm UTC

snow5379 wrote:Should ALL criminal accusations go to court? I'm thinking yes? Why don't they?

What makes you think overloading courts is a good idea? The justice system is lengthy and expensive enough as is. I don't want cases brought to court just to get thrown right out of it. That is a massive waste of time and taxpayers' money.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Angua » Fri May 17, 2013 6:50 am UTC

Nylonathatep wrote:
snow5379 wrote:
Nylonathatep wrote:
snow5379 wrote:Question: if she can prove in civil court that she was raped, can she than use that to get him incarcerated? I'm not sure how the legal system works, but if she can, I'm all for her to be seen in civil court. It is just disgusting to think that a rapist can just "pay off" someone if they're rich enough and it's equally disgusting to think some people would try to take advantage of that to make money.


The legal system is complicated and I don't think many rape trial went on civil but not criminal. The closest thing that comes to mind is the O.J Simpson Trial. He was acquitted for the murder of his ex-wife in criminal court, but the verdict in civil trial went against and he have to pay millions of dollars in damages to his ex-wife's family.

Still O.J went on Criminal Trial first. This case just went straight to Civil court.


So... one court found him guilty and one court found him innocent? I think the travesty here isn't the rape but rather 1. how someone can be tried twice for the same crime and 2. how she was denied a criminal trial. I guess that brings up the question:

Should ALL criminal accusations go to court? I'm thinking yes? Why don't they?



The difference between Criminal Court and Civil Court:

In the Criminal court, the accused have to prove, beyond a resonable doubt, facing a panel of selected jury, that the party is guiity.
In Civil Court, Both accused and the defendant present their case before the judge and the judge decide a judgement on both parties.

In Criminal Court, you are either found guilty or innocent of the crime and they issue a sentence.
In Civil Court, the judge can award damages and certain judgement that either prohibits or force one party to perform certain actions.

Civil Court cannot sentence anyone to jail.

In The OJ Simpson case, the Criminal Court found him not guilty of the murder of his ex-wife and her boyfriend. The Civil Court found him liable for the death of his wife and her boyfriend. There is a subtle difference in the language of the law.

In this case.. (according to sources) the DA deemed there's insufficient evidence to have a case against Nick Young. I'm not sure if there's still any other avenue the alleged victim can present her case in the criminal court.

Just to reiterate here - in Criminal court you basically have to be found 99.9999% likely to have done what you said you did. In Civil court it is just 50.1% (and you can have a sliding scale of damages depending on how liable and likely you are). This means that you need less convincing evidence, however you can't send someone to jail on the basis of that.

Also, Criminal court is trialled by the state. You need the police to get the evidence and the district attorney's office to present it to the court. Civil court is between citizens.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri May 17, 2013 1:25 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Nylonathatep wrote:Just to reiterate here - in Criminal court you basically have to be found 99.9999% likely to have done what you said you did.


Hah, no. We have over 2m prisoners and I'm sure more than 2 of them are innocent or at the very least, not guilty of the specific crime they are convicted for. It's probably closer to 95% chance of guilt, varying a huge amount by the prejudices of the jury. A 95% chance of guilt doesn't mean that 5% of prisoners are innocent, as it includes the people who are guilty with 99.5% chance and so forth. Basically it comes down to, is there any reasonable doubt that the guy/girl is innocent.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby gmalivuk » Fri May 17, 2013 2:11 pm UTC

Whatever specific numbers you choose to attach to it, the point is that criminal charges must be proved "beyond a reasonable doubt", whereas a civil case requires only "preponderance of the evidence", which is a much weaker requirement.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Angua » Fri May 17, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

I was using the numbers as an example of how likely it is should be from the judge/jury perspective, (I guess I have a high standard for 'reasonable doubt' when sending someone to jail). Just because it works out wrong in practice doesn't detract from the point, which was highlighting the difference between the two court systems and why one does not translate to the other.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Bsob » Fri May 17, 2013 2:37 pm UTC

doogly wrote:
snow5379 wrote:I don't think having different views makes people shitty people.

This isn't just a question of "views." If you happen to like Star Trek more than Star Wars, that is just a "different view." We're talking about someone who was raped here.


We're actually talking about someone who is accusing someone else of raping her. Your unspoken assumption that she was in fact raped is part of the problem.

Innocent until proven guilty, unless a women accuses you of rape. Then guilty, even if the cops take a look at the evidence and decide there is no case.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri May 17, 2013 2:39 pm UTC

Bsob wrote:We're actually talking about someone who is accusing someone else of raping her. Your unspoken assumption that she was in fact raped is part of the problem.

Innocent until proven guilty, unless a women accuses you of rape. Then guilty, even if the cops take a look at the evidence and decide there is no case.
I can only assume you missed the part where there's proof she was raped?

The argument about whether or not being accused of rape should remain private notwithstanding, you're grasping at a lot of straws here.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Fri May 17, 2013 2:44 pm UTC

Bsob wrote:Innocent until proven guilty, unless a women accuses you of rape. Then guilty, even if the cops take a look at the evidence and decide there is no case.

Innocent until proven guilty, yes. For the alleged rapist in the court of law.

In a lot of situations, people seems to go on "guilty until proven innocent" for the alleged VICTIM.

Can you seriously not see that? Yes, the basketball player may not have drugged her. But that doesn't mean everyone needs to go around saying "she's probably lying". You're so busy trying to protect the alleged rapist that you don't realize that the main voice of presumed guilt is on the alleged victim. Check Reddit and you'll see. Hell, check this thread right here and you'll see people presuming the alleged victim is guilty.

So no, you can't use the "innocent until proven guilty" card to protect the alleged rapist without also using it to protect the alleged victim.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby CorruptUser » Fri May 17, 2013 2:45 pm UTC

Angua, a high standard that you would probably never actually use if given the opportunity. Would you really let ten thousand murderers/rapists/muggers go, knowing that the result will be at least a few hundred more rapes/murders, than to risk harming just one innocent person? Society has to make the call of how much reducing the e.g., murder rate is compared to the false conviction rate. It's easy to say "I'd rather have a million rapists go free than convict one innocent person" if you aren't going to be one of those millions' next victims.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Fri May 17, 2013 2:48 pm UTC

From http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... ainst-him/
It’s worth noting that this is not a criminal complaint, and we won’t jump to conclusions either way until the case is resolved. But it is unfortunate that anyone can file a lawsuit against anyone else, resulting in the person who’s being sued having to deal with the stigma of these horrific allegations until they are able to clear their name in court.

Good job not jumping to conclusions either way, but it is unfortunate the people assume famous people they like are obviously innocent and the woman must be lying.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Choboman » Fri May 17, 2013 3:21 pm UTC

I read several articles on the case and am a bit confused by some of the phrasing. One of the articles said that she tested positive for GHB, but most of them just indicated that she claims that she tested positive for GHB. Some of the articles seemed to parse out the phrasing in a way that made it difficult to be certain whether it was just her assertion or it is confirmed fact (e.g."Ensuing tests later confirmed that the woman had been given GHB, according to the suit..."). Does anyone know if there is any evidence of this or not?

The presence of GHB in her system would be pretty compelling evidence of rape. If there are test results proving GHB was used, then the police were negligent in not pursuing the arrest and an investigation of their actions should be done as well. If the woman was incorrect or misleading about the test results, then that might certainly undermine her credibility in the eyes of the police and lead them to decide that there was not enough evidence to press charges. We (or at least I) just don't know, but I'm sure the evidence (or the lack of it) will come out in the civil trial.

Civil trials have a lower burden of proof than criminal ones. In a civil trial you only need a preponderance of evidence (i.e. 51% sure), whereas in a criminal trial you need to prove guilt 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. So it's unlikely a civil conviction would force a criminal trial, but if new evidence came up during the course of the civil trial it could cause them to re-open the investigation.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Zamfir » Fri May 17, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

Do Americans take ghb themselves? Here it's something people cook up at home for partying. If it's in your blood, it would be hardly evidence that someone gave it to you.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Fri May 17, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

It should eventually be found out if she did go to the center and get the results, and if she did get psychiatric treatment, in that time frame. When that is either confirmed or not, we'll have a better idea of what the truth is.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Darryl » Fri May 17, 2013 3:41 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:Do Americans take ghb themselves? Here it's something people cook up at home for partying. If it's in your blood, it would be hardly evidence that someone gave it to you.

Whether or not she took it of her own volition, she would not have been competent to consent.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby gmalivuk » Fri May 17, 2013 4:25 pm UTC

But also no, I don't believe that Americans are as likely to take GHB as a party drug, probably in part due to its being known as "the" date-rape drug.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Choboman » Fri May 17, 2013 4:28 pm UTC

Darryl wrote:Whether or not she took it of her own volition, she would not have been competent to consent.

I didn't realize that GHB was something people used recreationally - I thought that [outside of the intended medical uses] it was only a predator's tool.

That said, if you're willing to entertain the possibility that she might have taken the drug herself without the guy's knowledge, it's also possible that the consent [or even the entire sexual encounter - though that seems less likely to me given that she did pass out] occured prior to the drug use, or at least before the effects of the drug kicked in.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Nylonathatep » Fri May 17, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

Just more info on what GHB is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma-Hydroxybutyric_acid

γ-Hydroxybutyric acid (GHB), also known as 4-hydroxybutanoic acid, is a naturally occurring substance found in the human central nervous system, as well as in wine, beef, small citrus fruits, and almost all animals in small amounts.[1] It is also categorized as an illegal drug in many countries.[2] It is currently regulated in Australia and New Zealand, Canada, most of Europe and in the US. GHB as the sodium salt, known as sodium oxybate (INN) or by the trade name Xyrem,[3] is used to treat cataplexy[4] and excessive daytime sleepiness in patients with narcolepsy.


Club and rave scene use [edit]GHB is often taken because users find that it enhances their experiences of being in a club, party, or rave; small doses of GHB can act as a stimulant and aphrodisiac. GHB is sometimes referred to as liquid ecstasy, lollipops, liquid X or liquid E due to its tendency to produce euphoria and sociability and its use in the dance party scene.[15] Despite this nickname, GHB has entirely separate chemical and pharmacological modes of action compared to MDMA (ecstasy).


As a date rape drug [edit]Like alcohol and potent benzodiazepines such as flunitrazepam (Rohypnol), GHB has been labeled as a date rape drug.[6] The sodium form of GHB has an extremely salty taste but, as it is colourless and odorless,[14] it has been described as "very easy to add to drinks"[14] that mask the flavor. Allegedly, GHB has been used in cases of drug-related sexual assault, usually when the victim is vulnerable due to intoxication with a sedative, generally alcohol.[20] It is difficult to establish how often GHB is used to facilitate rape as it is difficult to detect in a urine sample after a day, and many victims may not recall the rape until some time after this,[21][22] although GHB can be detected in hair.[23] Hair testing can be a useful tool in court cases and/or for the victim's own information. Over-the-counter urine test kits only test for date rape drugs that are benzodiazepines, which GHB is not. To detect GHB in urine, the sample must be taken within 8–12 hours of GHB ingestion, and cannot be tested at home. GHB can be detected in hair for months after GHB ingestion. Other drugs, such as muscle relaxers (Carisoprodol for example), are sometimes mixed with GHB. Therefore, it can be beneficial to request that the hair sample be tested for multiple drugs.

There have been several high profile cases of GHB as a date rape drug that received national attention in the United States. In early 1999 a 15 year old girl, Samantha Reid of Rockwood, MI, died from GHB poisoning. Reid’s death inspired the legislation titled the "Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Drug Prohibition Act of 2000." This is the law that made GHB a schedule 1 controlled substance.[24]

GHB produced as a sodium salt (sodium oxybate) may provide a noticeable salty character to the drink, though individual sensitivity to the taste of salt varies.[25] GHB can also be produced as different salts, some of which may not have a taste as distinctive as the sodium salt (e.g., magnesium oxybate), or much less commonly in the unstable free-acid form.[26]

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri May 17, 2013 5:31 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
Young, for his part, says he had consensual sex with the woman, but that he stopped when she passed out.


Young says he had sex with her until she passed out. Why doesn't that bit "seem suspicious" to you?

Actually, all we know from the article is that the suit alleges he said that.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Fri May 17, 2013 5:35 pm UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:
Роберт wrote:
Young, for his part, says he had consensual sex with the woman, but that he stopped when she passed out.


Young says he had sex with her until she passed out. Why doesn't that bit "seem suspicious" to you?

Actually, all we know from the article is that the suit alleges he said that.

Sure, but I'm just saying that you can easily say either side is suspicious an any sex scandal.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Enokh » Fri May 17, 2013 5:42 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:
Bsob wrote:We're actually talking about someone who is accusing someone else of raping her. Your unspoken assumption that she was in fact raped is part of the problem.

Innocent until proven guilty, unless a women accuses you of rape. Then guilty, even if the cops take a look at the evidence and decide there is no case.
I can only assume you missed the part where there's proof she was raped?



I can only assume you missed the part that she has only claimed to have such evidence and we will probably have to wait until the trial to see if that is true?

No one here has ANY clue as to if she was raped, if she is claiming to be raped because she wants money, or presumably any other scenario that aren't those two.

Assuming she has the evidence she claims she has, it should be a pretty clear and cut trial. Because that is a SHIT LOAD of evidence. If she has that evidence and he's found innocent, then let's all get outraged! If it turns out she is lying then some of us can get outraged (or, rather, all of us, about different things).

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby dudiobugtron » Fri May 17, 2013 7:02 pm UTC

Enokh wrote:If she has that evidence and he's found innocent, then let's all get outraged!

I certainly won't be getting outraged in that case. Even if I knew what evidence she presented, unless I actually attended all of the court hearings, I would still have way less information to go on that the judge and jury who found him not guilty. If the court finds him not guilty then there's a reasonable chance he's actually not guilty.
Unless we are getting outraged at the laws upon which the findings were based. But I'm already outraged about those, and I doubt I'll be more outraged just from one more statistic.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Kag » Sat May 18, 2013 3:30 am UTC

dudiobugtron wrote:If the court finds him not guilty then there's a reasonable chance he's actually not guilty.


No. In order to meaningfully do that calculation we need to know what the evidence actually is.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby snow5379 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:59 pm UTC

Well it's not like this is going anywhere. There's pretty much a 0% chance this woman gets any money or this guy is thrown in jail... at most there will be a trial where she fails to present the evidence she claims to have... and even such a mock trial is unlikely to happen.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Роберт » Fri May 24, 2013 3:24 pm UTC

snow5379 wrote:Well it's not like this is going anywhere. There's pretty much a 0% chance this woman gets any money or this guy is thrown in jail... at most there will be a trial where she fails to present the evidence she claims to have... and even such a mock trial is unlikely to happen.

What makes you say that?
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby gmalivuk » Fri May 24, 2013 8:13 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
snow5379 wrote:Well it's not like this is going anywhere. There's pretty much a 0% chance this woman gets any money or this guy is thrown in jail... at most there will be a trial where she fails to present the evidence she claims to have... and even such a mock trial is unlikely to happen.
What makes you say that?
Being a rape apologist.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ » Fri May 24, 2013 8:23 pm UTC

/mic drop
Heyyy baby wanna kill all humans?

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Ralith The Third » Sat May 25, 2013 12:46 am UTC

Роберт wrote:
snow5379 wrote:Well it's not like this is going anywhere. There's pretty much a 0% chance this woman gets any money or this guy is thrown in jail... at most there will be a trial where she fails to present the evidence she claims to have... and even such a mock trial is unlikely to happen.

What makes you say that?


The assumption that she doesn't actually have the evidence, I suppose. Which is basically the crux of this, though failing to admit the possibility of the evidence being (gasp) real is a little bit... narrowminded.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Magnanimous » Sat May 25, 2013 1:54 am UTC

Kag wrote:
dudiobugtron wrote:If the court finds him not guilty then there's a reasonable chance he's actually not guilty.

No. In order to meaningfully do that calculation we need to know what the evidence actually is.

And you'd have to know roughly the court's rate of false positives/negatives in cases like this to know how meaningful a given verdict is.

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby nitePhyyre » Sat May 25, 2013 3:12 am UTC

Magnanimous wrote:
Kag wrote:
dudiobugtron wrote:If the court finds him not guilty then there's a reasonable chance he's actually not guilty.

No. In order to meaningfully do that calculation we need to know what the evidence actually is.

And you'd have to know roughly the court's rate of false positives/negatives in cases like this to know how meaningful a given verdict is.

And the quality of the the opposing lawyers.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby snow5379 » Sat May 25, 2013 3:36 am UTC

So let me get this straight: if you have trust in the police, who refused her a trial, you're a rape apologist? With what we know the police wouldn't give her a trial so something must be seriously wrong with her claims. Look her grab for money (which reports say she was after since day 1) is just distasteful and it really does look like the whole thing is going nowhere fast. Anyway you could try to slam him for bringing her home drunk: that would be more fruitful than arguing over evidence that may or may not exist and none of us have seen.

Also it's not the first time the victim has pulled this and has tried similar stunts in the past. She's also has a law degree. Various sources are also saying at the time of the incident she underwent an examination showing no foreign DNA on her and repeatedly texted Ebanks. You give a date rape victim your phone number right?

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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby doogly » Sat May 25, 2013 4:20 am UTC

snow5379 wrote:You give a date rape victim your phone number right?

Yes of course you do. The plan is to convince her and everyone else that it wasn't rape, it was just some sex that was perfectly normal, maybe a bit regrettable, certainly not criminal.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby Ralith The Third » Sat May 25, 2013 6:12 am UTC

Calling someone a rape apologist for being skeptical about this, what with the whole police not doing anything before, is a bit extreme.

Refusing to admit that there's a possibility that the case was dismissed by the police out of hand (and the corrolary "She was, in fact, raped.") is a bit extreme.

And in general I get the number of people whom I go on dates with. This isn't exceptional at all. You're going on a date, you get their number, this allows texting - regardless of the occurrence or lack of occurrence of date rape.
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Re: Woman Sues NBA player For Alleged Rape (Trigger Warning)

Postby gmalivuk » Sat May 25, 2013 6:19 am UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:Calling someone a rape apologist for being skeptical about this, what with the whole police not doing anything before, is a bit extreme.
Yes, calling someone a rape apologist for just that might be extreme.

I called him a rape apologist for all the *other* rape apologia he's littered around this thread.
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