AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

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paigeannecarter
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby paigeannecarter » Tue Jul 30, 2013 3:39 am UTC

I pity this Australian woman.
But what can we do? Sit here and debate?
What can our governments do? Exterminate these people? Then what sets us apart from becoming one of them? Or committing Hitler's genocide?
It's kinda baffling when it comes to these cases, we know what's morally right but within the country's legal system it's the right thing too. We have to be open-minded to accept each others differences but should we inculcate our beliefs to others?
Heartache and headache.

schismtracer
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby schismtracer » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:02 pm UTC

paigeannecarter wrote:But what can we do?


Realistically, we can do what's being done in Yemen right now: have the government issue travel advisories to limit visitors. That forces the UAE to either get its shit together or lose tourism income.

BattleMoose
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby BattleMoose » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:44 am UTC

Australia does have an appropriate travel advisory for Dubai. (Although issues regarding rape aren't explicitly referred to if I recall correctly)

Personally I refuse to fly with Emirates.

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WibblyWobbly
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:13 am UTC

It'd be interesting if they issued an "honest" travel advisory: "Women are advised to take extreme precautions upon arrival in the United Arab Emirates, as upon clearing customs, your human rights will be confiscated."

BattleMoose
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby BattleMoose » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:15 am UTC

WibblyWobbly wrote:It'd be interesting if they issued an "honest" travel advisory: "Women are advised to take extreme precautions upon arrival in the United Arab Emirates, as upon clearing customs, your human rights will be confiscated."


When you are in the UAE, be aware that local laws and penalties, including ones that appear harsh by Australian standards, do apply to you. The UAE is a Muslim country and local laws reflect the fact that Islamic practices and beliefs are closely applied. Laws may also vary between individual Emirates. You should familiarise yourself with local laws before you travel.


There are strict laws on personal conduct, particularly in regard to sex and personal relationships, as well as the consumption and possession of alcohol.


I certainly wouldn't call the advisory dishonest but it could well be better. Also, Australia doesn't have a bill of rights.

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yurell
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby yurell » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Course we don't — we assume that you have all rights unless it's explicitly stated you don't.
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Ormurinn
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby Ormurinn » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:20 pm UTC

yurell wrote:Course we don't — we assume that you have all rights unless it's explicitly stated you don't.


Without clarifying Positive vs. Negative rights you can't hold that position as they inevitably come into conflict.
"Progress" - Technological advances masking societal decay.

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CorruptUser
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:43 pm UTC

Even negative rights come into conflict. Every society has to make the judgement call of which right is more important. Is it more important that I have the right to build whatever I want or that we have building codes protecting my neighbor from falling buildings? What if those building codes are about efficient building design to reduce energy consumption, those making everyone's energy bill cheaper? What if it was about a certain city aesthetic?

BattleMoose
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby BattleMoose » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:25 pm UTC

yurell wrote:Course we don't — we assume that you have all rights unless it's explicitly stated you don't.


Was this a thing before the UDHR?

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WibblyWobbly
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby WibblyWobbly » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:39 pm UTC

BattleMoose wrote:
WibblyWobbly wrote:It'd be interesting if they issued an "honest" travel advisory: "Women are advised to take extreme precautions upon arrival in the United Arab Emirates, as upon clearing customs, your human rights will be confiscated."


When you are in the UAE, be aware that local laws and penalties, including ones that appear harsh by Australian standards, do apply to you. The UAE is a Muslim country and local laws reflect the fact that Islamic practices and beliefs are closely applied. Laws may also vary between individual Emirates. You should familiarise yourself with local laws before you travel.


There are strict laws on personal conduct, particularly in regard to sex and personal relationships, as well as the consumption and possession of alcohol.


I certainly wouldn't call the advisory dishonest but it could well be better.

Hence the "scare quotes" on "honest". No, the travel warning as stated isn't deceitful, but it could make mention of some of the more egregious examples of situations in which being the victim of a crime will get your freedom taken from you. "Well, if you didn't want to go to jail, you shouldn't have been 'female in public'."
BattleMoose wrote:Also, Australia doesn't have a bill of rights.

Correct, but I was emphasizing human rights. Australia did directly vote in favor of the UDHR, and as a UN member state, I think it's supposed to abide by that declaration. But I wouldn't be worried about Australia, I'd be worried about the UAE (also a UN member); their stance toward women seems to fall afoul of Articles I, II, VI and VII at the very least. Then again, Saudi Arabia originally refused to sign the UDHR and Iran later denounced it for the same reason - that it contravenes Islamic law. Apparently, there is some incompatibility between secular Western human rights and Islamic law, but when that conflict comes up, everyone seems to demand that the terrible, decadent Western human rights must be allowed to be superseded by religion because it is of dire importance that we bend our heads to every religious delusion that strikes a certain number of people.

But mostly, hyperbole. I do that too often. Apologies for that.

BattleMoose
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby BattleMoose » Thu Aug 08, 2013 12:35 am UTC

It was more of a semantic jibe. If she didn't have rights at home, she couldn't lose them when traveling.

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WibblyWobbly
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby WibblyWobbly » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:24 am UTC

Oh. Sorry, then. Carry on.

you're a semantic jibe.

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The Great Hippo
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:42 am UTC

BattleMoose wrote:
When you are in the UAE, be aware that local laws and penalties, including ones that appear harsh by Australian standards, do apply to you. The UAE is a Muslim country and local laws reflect the fact that Islamic practices and beliefs are closely applied. Laws may also vary between individual Emirates. You should familiarise yourself with local laws before you travel.


There are strict laws on personal conduct, particularly in regard to sex and personal relationships, as well as the consumption and possession of alcohol.
I certainly wouldn't call the advisory dishonest but it could well be better. Also, Australia doesn't have a bill of rights.
Yeah, I would much prefer an additional advisory noting 'If you are a woman who is sexually assaulted while in this country, you may be imprisoned for reporting your assault'.

Regrettably, people often prefer diplomacy over honesty.

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addams
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Re: AU Woman raped in Emirates, Jailed for Reporting

Postby addams » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:25 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
BattleMoose wrote:
When you are in the UAE, be aware that local laws and penalties, including ones that appear harsh by Australian standards, do apply to you. The UAE is a Muslim country and local laws reflect the fact that Islamic practices and beliefs are closely applied. Laws may also vary between individual Emirates. You should familiarize yourself with local laws before you travel.


There are strict laws on personal conduct, particularly in regard to sex and personal relationships, as well as the consumption and possession of alcohol.
I certainly wouldn't call the advisory dishonest but it could well be better. Also, Australia doesn't have a bill of rights.
Yeah, I would much prefer an additional advisory noting 'If you are a woman who is sexually assaulted while in this country, you may be imprisoned for reporting your assault'.

Regrettably, people often prefer diplomacy over honesty.

This website and others can help: By decimating the information.

Someone. Some Government with credibility could and should do as you have suggested.
A pampliet. I know, digital is a good, good thing.
Some things need to be in hard copy form.

This is a small thing that could be put into the Passports.
We manage to get those weird, "I am not a smuggler and I don't have more than 10 thousand dollars cash, papers into everyone's hands.

Yes. It sucks being violated and hurt then inprisoned.
The term may have been, "Insult to injury".

Advise both women and men if there is a real risk.
"If attacked and hurt, limp, cry, do what you must; Get your butt home!"

If it is important, (I think it is important) tell people how to be safe.
Tell people to not come into contact with Police.

People that really do understand the risks can write the Passport insert.
Very clear directions for Victims of crime. Call Consulate and book flight home?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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