XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

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dii
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XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby dii » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:20 pm UTC

So, we now have information of a worse NSA program than PRISM: XKeyscore.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/j ... nline-data

What it does is, it saves all the raw data of internet traffic. Everything gets saved and stays in cache for at least a several hours, and more interesting data gets saved for a much longer time. XKeycode is the software that allows NSA operatives to search this data. This data includes many forms of private communication: they can spy on phone calls, emails, private forum posts, everything. They can basically insert your name in the software, and track pretty much everything you do on the web.

I recommend everyone to encrypt their internet traffic if they want it to stay private. I also recommend to donate or otherwise offer help to EFF, who are fighting against privacy violations and NSA's abuses of civil rights. http://www.eff.org/

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:37 pm UTC

It appears this is what Snowden was referring to when he claimed he could gather information on anyone, including the President. Congress of course, said he was a lying liar at the time.

Well, there goes the "It's just metadata" argument. Not that it held water, anyway.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Kulantan » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

dii wrote:Everything gets saved and stays in cache for at least a several hours, and more interesting data gets saved for a much longer time.

Furthermore the fuck-off huge data center they are building (estimate finishing next month) will be used to considerably extend that. That or store a permanent full video record of the life of every cat on the planet so that they can get lots of hits on youtube...

If something isn't done now to stop the growth of internet surveillance its just going to keep getting worse.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Heisenberg » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:47 pm UTC

The XKeyscore system is continuously collecting so much internet data that it can be stored only for short periods of time. Content remains on the system for only three to five days, while metadata is stored for 30 days. One document explains: "At some sites, the amount of data we receive per day (20+ terabytes) can only be stored for as little as 24 hours."
Sounds like it can be stored for a few days, mostly. At least, until the mega-datacenter can be completed in Utah.

To their credit, the government also released some highly redacted documents concerning how they justify gathering your call data.
For the first time, the government acknowledged publicly that by using what it calls "hop analysis" it can scour the phone calls of millions of Americans in the hunt for just one suspect.

NSA analysts could use the records of everyone a suspect calls, as well as everyone who contacts the contacts of contacts of the initial suspect.

If the average person calls 40 unique people, such three-hop analysis could allow the government to mine the records of 2.5 million Americans when investigating one suspected terrorist.
I imagine these guys are really good at Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:53 pm UTC

Please, this is XKCD; we all know it's the Erdos number.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Jahoclave » Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:20 pm UTC

Kulantan wrote:
dii wrote:Everything gets saved and stays in cache for at least a several hours, and more interesting data gets saved for a much longer time.

Furthermore the fuck-off huge data center they are building (estimate finishing next month) will be used to considerably extend that. That or store a permanent full video record of the life of every cat on the planet so that they can get lots of hits on youtube...

If something isn't done now to stop the growth of internet surveillance its just going to keep getting worse.

God I hope it's cats. In fact, that shall be my campaign promise. Jaho 2024, let no cat go unsurveilled.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:14 pm UTC

The XKeyscore system is continuously collecting so much internet data that it can be stored only for short periods of time. Content remains on the system for only three to five days, while metadata is stored for 30 days. One document explains: "At some sites, the amount of data we receive per day (20+ terabytes) can only be stored for as little as 24 hours."


20 TB seems like a tiny amount of data for the type of surveillance being alleged
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Роберт » Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:24 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:20 TB seems like a tiny amount of data for the type of surveillance being alleged

They probably don't archive videos etc. Over 20 TB is a lot of text.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Derek » Sat Aug 03, 2013 12:54 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Please, this is XKCD; we all know it's the Erdos number.

This gives me a great new idea: Osama number. If you are (or were) Osama bin Laden, you get an Osama number of 0. If you ever had a phone call with Osama, you have an Osama number of 1. In general, your Osama number is n+1, where n is the smallest Osama number of people you have had phone calls with.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby WibblyWobbly » Sat Aug 03, 2013 2:00 am UTC

Derek wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Please, this is XKCD; we all know it's the Erdos number.

This gives me a great new idea: Osama number. If you are (or were) Osama bin Laden, you get an Osama number of 0. If you ever had a phone call with Osama, you have an Osama number of 1. In general, your Osama number is n+1, where n is the smallest Osama number of people you have had phone calls with.

Fascinating. How low does your Osama number have to be before you get a free drone strike?

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Thesh » Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:17 am UTC

Anything under four digits.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby LaserGuy » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:08 am UTC

I don't suppose there's any way we could just shut down the NSA entirely?

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Thesh » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:14 am UTC

Personally, I would like to merge the CIA and NSA, but they do serve a necessary function. They just also seem to serve a lot of unnecessary functions.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat Aug 03, 2013 5:41 am UTC

Роберт wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:20 TB seems like a tiny amount of data for the type of surveillance being alleged

They probably don't archive videos etc. Over 20 TB is a lot of text.


If everyone allegedly being surveilled sent just one email per day, they would generate several times that amount of data.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby rieschen » Sat Aug 03, 2013 6:26 am UTC

I guess the question is what a "site" is in this context, and how many of them they operate - i.e. how many people is it that are generating that 20 TB in a 24h period - there must be at least a handful, considering that that is an upper bound of traffic at "some" of them. I'd assume there are more where it's less from reading that sentence.

Does anyone have a deeper view into that?

I think there's a really fine balancing act between safety and liberty in this kind of situation, and actors primarily designed to increase safety are notoriously horrible at making it. This is probably in part because more safety often equates more power for them and they see themselves as a force for good. I remain deeply uncomfortable that I don't have to worry about anything if I don't do anything wrong, because governments don't have the best track record in the world of creating good overlap between wrong and illegal.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby dii » Sat Aug 03, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:
Роберт wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:20 TB seems like a tiny amount of data for the type of surveillance being alleged

They probably don't archive videos etc. Over 20 TB is a lot of text.


If everyone allegedly being surveilled sent just one email per day, they would generate several times that amount of data.


According to wikipedia, global internet usage is estimated to be 39% of population by 2014. Let's generously go by 40%. Of 6 billion people, that's 2.4 billion, or 2400 million people.

If each of those people write an email that's 10KiB (kibbles and bits) in size, that amounts to 24 TiB, but 10KiB is a very generous estimate - a typical plaintext email is maybe half of that size. Maybe a bit more if it's in html. And that assumes there's no compression being used, which would reduce the required size considerably.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Steax » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:21 pm UTC

I personally don't buy the 20TB number. Given that the NSA and US government has been consecutively lying through their teeth ever since this debacle began, "20TB" looks like a suspiciously round and is probably more complicated than it looks. It says "site", and there are multiple collection sites, and it says "some sites", so it could just be one of the smaller or average sites. It goes out of its way to say that the data is over capacity, and that they've built a system to try and store as much "interesting" stuff as they could. If anything, 20TB was probably a lower-end figure from years ago, since just a sentence before that, the article states that data is stored for 3-5 days, with metadata going up to 30 days.

And I love their justification:

In a letter this week to senator Ron Wyden, director of national intelligence James Clapper acknowledged that NSA analysts have exceeded even legal limits as interpreted by the NSA in domestic surveillance.

Acknowledging what he called "a number of compliance problems", Clapper attributed them to "human error" or "highly sophisticated technology issues" rather than "bad faith".


"Guys, we're totally not evil, it's just because some of our staff can't handle the technology or the freedom it gives!"
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:35 am UTC

dii wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:
Роберт wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:20 TB seems like a tiny amount of data for the type of surveillance being alleged

They probably don't archive videos etc. Over 20 TB is a lot of text.


If everyone allegedly being surveilled sent just one email per day, they would generate several times that amount of data.


According to wikipedia, global internet usage is estimated to be 39% of population by 2014. Let's generously go by 40%. Of 6 billion people, that's 2.4 billion, or 2400 million people.

If each of those people write an email that's 10KiB (kibbles and bits) in size, that amounts to 24 TiB, but 10KiB is a very generous estimate - a typical plaintext email is maybe half of that size. Maybe a bit more if it's in html. And that assumes there's no compression being used, which would reduce the required size considerably.


According to what little research on the subject I've found, an average email is 75KB including the header, formatting and etc.

According to this report the average corporate user requires 30MB of email storage per day (this study indicates that an average email is actually 140KB, the small number of large attachments drastically effects the average, the text only average was 26KB)

And keep in mind, this is only email, not including general browsing, facebook, etc.

20TB is a miniscule amount of data to capture by comparison
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby elasto » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:52 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:According to what little research on the subject I've found, an average email is 75KB including the header, formatting and etc.

According to this report the average corporate user requires 30MB of email storage per day (this study indicates that an average email is actually 140KB, the small number of large attachments drastically effects the average, the text only average was 26KB)

Yeah, but again, is that compressed or uncompressed? For example, if a person sends an email with a large attachment to a dozen people, each of which send on to a dozen more, that attachment only needs to get stored once on the snooper servers. Or if one person quotes an email to another, that repeat text can be compressed to almost nothing.

20TB does feel quite small but maybe it's an out of date figure or maybe it's just using some very sophisticated compression and look-up algorithms.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Steax » Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:40 am UTC

Again, the 20TB+ figure is for "some sites". i.e. one of the red dots on this map:

Image

It doesn't represent the whole system.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:44 am UTC

At a quick estimate, if each center holds 20TB of data per day, there would need to be nearly 3,000 centers to hold just the daily email data.

Quick question for someone more knowledgeable than I:

The new NSA datacenter is supposed to be able to store Zettabytes of data, that is a large number of bits. How much computing power would it take to index and search that many emails in a reasonable amount of time? What sort of bottlenecks would there be in that process?

In other words, how likely is it that the NSA has/is gathering all this data and has no way to actually make it useful for anything?
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Steax » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:40 am UTC

Given the processing power available today (especially to those with large amounts of money to throw at the problem), it's actually pretty trivial. I doubt the NSA is just building a big data warehouse. Their previous software already shows how they keep track of separate metadata databases, allow for complex queries, and keep things in a multi-tier system. To me (though I'm no expert) this shows that they're already doing a lot to systematically and automatically manage their data. For instance, in XKeyscore, they note a tier system that holds "interesting" data for longer than temporary data. Presumably this is done automatically (by keyword or some other indicator), and we also have screenshots of the program trying to auto-detect email addresses (with some sort of fuzzy logic too, it seems, not a vanilla regex).

In short, I think if Google can do it, the NSA can do it. And the NSA doesn't need to worry about bandwidth or returning search results in a millisecond.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:56 pm UTC

There are orders of magnitude of difference between what Google does and what the NSA is trying to do. Google deals in petabytes, not zettabytes.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Zamfir » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:14 pm UTC

I think the "zettabyte" stuff was hype. As in, that's what they expect the facility might theoretically hold at some point in its lifetime, not at the start. Including advances in hard drive capacity over that life time.

The facility is supposed to cost single-digit billions. That's a lot of money, but Google spends 2 to 3 billion on a presumably similar mix of hardware yearly, and the NSA doesn't seem to have access to much better storage hardware on a per-dollar basis.

EDIT: useful info i found.
http://www.seagate.com/www-content/about/investors/en-us/docs/q2fy13-con-call-sup.pdf

Seagte mentions that in the first quarter of 2013, industry has shipped 105 exabyte worth of hard drives, and Seagate alone 47 exabyte. Based on that, it seems highly unlikely that the NSA will have zettabytes worth of hard drives anytime soon.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Steax » Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

The zettabyte level is also far too extreme in terms of sheer data. To store 5 zettabytes (the alleged and un-confirmed datacenter capacity) would be to have 500GB of storage per human being on the planet, in which case the NSA might as well have a copy of everyone's hard drives.

Facebook, for instance, stores (and also intensively reads) about 100 petabytes of data on it's Hadoop-based distributed filesystem. When the technology exists to get this far, distributed computing scales very well, and adding more servers is just an issue of throwing more money at the problem. Which the NSA has plenty of.
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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby addams » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:45 am UTC

Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.

Not everyone's is.
If you have a digital identity.........
If you do not.......

Who wants What?
Safety? Privacy?
Cloak and Dagger?

Fun for Movies.
Not fun for Real Life.

Some people think it is fun.
What is being done with your information?
Mine?

What is the Mission Statement?
Fifteen Years of anti-intellectualism.

That Goal has been reached! yes.
We are a Can Do bunch.

It does have a Dystopian Feel to it.
It is not the information, but what is done with the information.

As human beings we do need institutions to Help us Help one another.
That is sometimes private. It is never Secret. What is so Secret?

We don't want the Terrorists to Get us!
We do want to Get the Terrorists!

Get Them! Get Them!
Hey! I am a them and I am taking this Personal!

A middle eastern man? Snowden? Me?! jeeze.

Yes. I have read about what has been done by Humans to Humans.
Yes. I worry. And; For good Reason! I have met some of these Guys!

It is not a 2D problem. It becomes a 3D problem.

What are they controlling for?
What do They not want said?

Who is They? They are Real people and so are we and so am I!
You and I have No Power to act in any way. None!

We have the ability to bitch about it on the Internet.
Many do not have that luxury. I will lose it, if I do not get Outside help.

If I am on the List, then anyone including my Congressman runs high risk when helping me.
This Sucks! Who can Do one thing about it?

Not you. Not me.
Who?

Richard Cheney? He is a powerful man.
Are you? There are people that live like Gods and You support them.

Other people die of neglect and You sleep Peacefully knowing Your Tax Money was spent Wisely.
Wisely? I do become angry. How can I not. It has cost much more than money.

People have, are and will continue to suffer. That is Wrong!
That is why Richard does not like me. I do not respect him.
(fuck him. eewww. eewww. Does he have children? Did he ever fuck? eewww. Is he part of the Orgy Crowd?)

I do not a lot of Direct information that I can give you that will take you from where you are to Dick's Dick.

I do know: These Hypersexualized immature adults use Sex the way people do. Some in groups of Fifty or More. Some other ways.
What people do for fun away from work is not up for Scrutiny. It is funny, Children.

Those, kind of, sick bastards have formed a Large Club.
They Knocked out the Leadership.
It is a good way to take over an organization.
The way the Leadership was Knocked out was with Sex.

It was not the Only way leadership was knocked out.
Bastards were doing some really weird stuff.
Some is, was and will always be illegal.

At the same time men and women within the US were targeted with Sex and Lives fell like silent snowflakes.
Sex and Money. Money and Sex.

The American people are stupid.
Not stupid by birth; Stupid by education.

This nation is Profoundly Undereducated and PROUD!
This nation was willing to fire an executive for.......?

It has been brilliant! I am a victim and I can see the genus in the plan.
Do you see it? Why? Do you know Why?

Do you want to? Would you be willing to hear more than one story.
I know Conspiracy Theories Abound.

I hope to not fall into the Traps of They did this and They did that.
Conspire? If this was done as part of a larger plan it is mildly complex.

It may have been The Plan of more than one group.
They are not all working together toward the same Goal!

But; We are on a different part of The Field and I don't see a big WIN in our near future.
Do you? It could happen. It would be required that we help one another. In kindness.

Look into the face of Cheney. Is that man going to move from Compassion?
No. I did not think so, either. He is not the only evil in the world.

There were men that had Everything. Richest people on the Planet!
They are mostly all dead, now. They may have helped set things up.

They were Rich. They were Smart. Powerful and Bored and sometimes the Rich Kids feel Left Out.
Petty Bastards in my Opinion.

What can you do? Nothing! Serfs! We are Serfs and the Assholes that knocked over the Dominoes are Mostly Dead.
What can we, you and me, do? Nothing? I am not fighting for Privacy. I lost that long ago and did not care.

Watch me? Boring. No hazard pay.
I am so upset! They get extra Pay to make my life Suck!?
That Sucks!

I attempted to contact my representivtes from the Local Level to Congress.
The Local Guys Love this shit. The Congressman is not interested.

I have spoken to attorneys. This is a career ender. It did end one's career.
He was ready go retire, anyway. It was stressful for him. I am sorry.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby dii » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:39 am UTC

addams wrote:Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.
.......


Interesting.

Do you write in this somewhat incoherent and rambling style in order to shield yourself from actual human interaction? Or is this some kind of performance art?

Are you acting as some kind of forum persona, or are you actually like that in real life? Will you make up a haiku on the spot just to ask your friend/spouse/roommate to pass the salt?

I'm just curious.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby addams » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:38 am UTC

dii wrote:
addams wrote:Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.
.......


Interesting.

Do you write in this somewhat incoherent and rambling style in order to shield yourself from actual human interaction? Or is this some kind of performance art?

Are you acting as some kind of forum persona, or are you actually like that in real life? Will you make up a haiku on the spot just to ask your friend/spouse/roommate to pass the salt?

I'm just curious.

The answer to your first question is, "Hell, No!"

Second question: We are all artists; We are all scientists.
Not all of us are Good Artists; Not all of us are Good Scientists.

Third: I have no idea. I had a friend. It's True! I had a friend!
She read something I wrote and Laughed. She said it sounded like me.
(shrug) I may sound like I write.

Poor Me. Think about it. How much would it suck to sound like that?
Roommate? Friend? Spouse? Really? Are you new here?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby dii » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

addams wrote:
dii wrote:
addams wrote:Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.
.......


Interesting.

Do you write in this somewhat incoherent and rambling style in order to shield yourself from actual human interaction? Or is this some kind of performance art?

Are you acting as some kind of forum persona, or are you actually like that in real life? Will you make up a haiku on the spot just to ask your friend/spouse/roommate to pass the salt?

I'm just curious.

The answer to your first question is, "Hell, No!"

Second question: We are all artists; We are all scientists.
Not all of us are Good Artists; Not all of us are Good Scientists.

Third: I have no idea. I had a friend. It's True! I had a friend!
She read something I wrote and Laughed. She said it sounded like me.
(shrug) I may sound like I write.

Poor Me. Think about it. How much would it suck to sound like that?
Roommate? Friend? Spouse? Really? Are you new here?


well that's interesting
but what about when you go
buying groceries?

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9418
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Gold Beach, OR; 97444

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby addams » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:34 am UTC

dii wrote:
addams wrote:
dii wrote:
addams wrote:Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.
.......


Interesting.

Do you write in this somewhat incoherent and rambling style in order to shield yourself from actual human interaction? Or is this some kind of performance art?

Are you acting as some kind of forum persona, or are you actually like that in real life? Will you make up a haiku on the spot just to ask your friend/spouse/roommate to pass the salt?

I'm just curious.

The answer to your first question is, "Hell, No!"

Second question: We are all artists; We are all scientists.
Not all of us are Good Artists; Not all of us are Good Scientists.

Third: I have no idea. I had a friend. It's True! I had a friend!
She read something I wrote and Laughed. She said it sounded like me.
(shrug) I may sound like I write.

Poor Me. Think about it. How much would it suck to sound like that?
Roommate? Friend? Spouse? Really? Are you new here?


well that's interesting
but what about when you go
buying groceries?

Wave money and run?
It is the best plan I have.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Lostdreams
Posts: 650
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:19 pm UTC

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Lostdreams » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:34 pm UTC

dii wrote:
addams wrote:
dii wrote:
addams wrote:Hell-o;
Privacy?

I think what is done with the information is Important.
Again; Over and Over; Your digital information is extensive.
.......


Interesting.

Do you write in this somewhat incoherent and rambling style in order to shield yourself from actual human interaction? Or is this some kind of performance art?

Are you acting as some kind of forum persona, or are you actually like that in real life? Will you make up a haiku on the spot just to ask your friend/spouse/roommate to pass the salt?

I'm just curious.

The answer to your first question is, "Hell, No!"

Second question: We are all artists; We are all scientists.
Not all of us are Good Artists; Not all of us are Good Scientists.

Third: I have no idea. I had a friend. It's True! I had a friend!
She read something I wrote and Laughed. She said it sounded like me.
(shrug) I may sound like I write.

Poor Me. Think about it. How much would it suck to sound like that?
Roommate? Friend? Spouse? Really? Are you new here?


well that's interesting
but what about when you go
buying groceries?


That's not a haiku.
A haiku has five syllables,
then eight, then five more.
The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:
TrlstanC wrote:But, I'm still curious, did no one else ever learn about creationism in science class at some point, at least those who went to public school?

Sorry, we just learned science.

User avatar
scarecrovv
It's pronounced 'double u'
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:09 pm UTC
Location: California

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby scarecrovv » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

Lostdreams wrote:
dii wrote:well that's interesting
but what about when you go
buying groceries?


That's not a haiku.
A haiku has five syllables,
then eight, then five more.


Wikipedia,
it begs to differ with you.
Five seven and five.

User avatar
KrO2
Posts: 236
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2010 9:35 pm UTC

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby KrO2 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:45 am UTC

Though I prefer it,
Five-seven-five is a myth.
Haiku knows no bounds.


(But the Internet
and the comics found on it
Aren't reliable.)

dii
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:42 am UTC
Location: 60.17°N 24.94°E

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby dii » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:47 pm UTC

The whole idea
of counting the syllables
is fallacious.

Haikus in Japan:
syllables are not counted,
but On are, instead.

Роберт
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:56 am UTC

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby Роберт » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:20 pm UTC

We are not writing
In the Japanese Language
we use English words
The Great Hippo wrote:[T]he way we treat suspected terrorists genuinely terrifies me.

User avatar
O Choco
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:19 am UTC
Location: Untersee
Contact:

Re: XKeyscore: Worse than PRISM

Postby O Choco » Sun Sep 15, 2013 2:11 am UTC

Haiku can be fun
But sometimes they don't make sense
Refridgerator
http://prosepage.com
MODEST MOUSE wrote:Oh, and we carried it all so well
As if we got a new position
Oh, and we owned all the tools ourselves
But not the skills to make a shelf with
Oh, what useless tools ourselves.


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