Southern Methodist University student solves rape

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Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:41 pm UTC

Turns out it really is your fault, ladies. Quit drinking so much. Uh...trigger warning, I guess?
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:10 pm UTC

I like the only comment to the article.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby philsov » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:27 pm UTC

In a perfect world, yes, people would be free to get blackout drunk and suffer no consequence. Unfortunately, people currently exist who would take advantage of that. Until they no longer exist, getting blackout drunk is a dangerous thing, and will continue to be for some time.

Seeing as how the individual is at least in control of themselves, avoiding activities that involve a very high risk is the best thing the individual can do, right?
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:38 pm UTC

Getting drunk is not the equivalent of riding your bike with no hands. Ultimately, the deciding factor of whether or not someone gets raped is on the rapist.

There's a difference between saying 'Women, be aware that if you're black out drunk, some fucking asshole may rape you, and that's their fault, but is something you can reduce the chance of insofar as not getting black out drunk', and saying 'Lets make sure we report whose to blame here; women, stop getting black out drunk and you'll not get raped anymore'.

Like the article says.

EDIT: As a dude, I find it kind of insulting that the media even pretends it's a womans fault that a rape happened because she got drunk. It implies, as we've all heard, that men aren't capable of not raping if given the chance.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Vahir » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:57 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Getting drunk is not the equivalent of riding your bike with no hands. Ultimately, the deciding factor of whether or not someone gets raped is on the rapist.

There's a difference between saying 'Women, be aware that if you're black out drunk, some fucking asshole may rape you, and that's their fault, but is something you can reduce the chance of insofar as not getting black out drunk', and saying 'Lets make sure we report whose to blame here; women, stop getting black out drunk and you'll not get raped anymore'.

Like the article says.

EDIT: As a dude, I find it kind of insulting that the media even pretends it's a womans fault that a rape happened because she got drunk. It implies, as we've all heard, that men aren't capable of not raping if given the chance.


I'm quite sure that if you actually sat down and talked to someone who professed victim blaming, they would end up agreeing with Philsov. I'd guess that most of these sort of articles are just badly worded.

Some people no doubt do think that it's all the womenz's fault, but they generally aren't worth talking to.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:29 pm UTC

The article isn't godawful because it says "Drinking heavily puts you at elevated risk for rape", but because it says "The media needs to spend less time talking about how bad rape is and more time talking about how drunk the victims were, just because I think so, even though that's certain to produce victim-blaming and help justify rape apologism."

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:42 pm UTC

With a cutesy name like Kirby I can't help but imagine the author had good intentions. Damnit Kirby stick to what you do best, sucking all the things and beating up penguin kings.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:31 pm UTC

Kirby Riley wrote:What is the common theme in the majority of sexual assault or rape cases on college campuses?

That they were performed by rapists?

Kirby Riley wrote:Alcohol abuse.

Well, if it is true that rapists rape more often whilst drunk, then perhaps they shouldn't be abusing alcohol. Nothing wrong with that assertion--fixing it might be difficult, but if results are achieved then addressing it would be worthwhile.

Kirby 'Blowhard' Riley wrote:...two pages of victim blaming...

Oh, nevermind, it's just another person full of shit.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:25 am UTC

The guilt of and effort put by the rapist are independent. Whether the victim was locked in at home with 3 chastity belts on or already naked in an orgy busy with 2 other people, the rapist is just as guilty.

World, please stop changing the subject; focus on blaming the rapist, not the victim.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby skeptical scientist » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:03 am UTC

What an appallingly bad article. On so many levels. I would be surprised and dismayed if it does not lead to the author getting kicked off of the newspaper.

FYI, this is the Sarah Lawrence "research study" that the article failed to cite.

The problems in the article are too many to list, so I will just mention one: the glaring innumeracy of the article's author. The cited fact says that 55% of college women involved in sexual assault will have consumed alcohol prior to the assault. Since more than 55% of college women regularly consume alcohol,* this fact does not even demonstrate a correlation between consuming alcohol and being a victim of assault.**

*According to this poorly-organized factsheet (sorry, it was the best I could find in 60 seconds of googling), 70% of college students drink at least once a month, 65% of college students drink at least once a week, and on average college women have almost four drinks per week.

**I don't have enough numbers to figure out whether there's a correlation, but if we assume that female college students drink 2 nights per week on average (which is consistent with 4 drinks a week on average if women average 2 drinks on nights when they drink), and that assaults are more likely to occur on nights where drinking is more likely to be going on (which is consistent with the fact that 74% of men who commit assaults had a drink prior), it's not that hard to imagine a scenario where the correlation would be close to zero.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:29 am UTC

philsov wrote:In a perfect world, yes, people would be free to get blackout drunk and suffer no consequence.


Aside from y'know, all the non-rape related consequences of getting blackout drunk (up to and including horrific death)
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Red Hal » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:20 am UTC

Nope. In a perfect world there would be *no* negative consequences, but your statement nicely illustrates the difference between things people do to themselves and things people have done to them. It's the conflation of the two that makes this a horrible article.
And the victim blaming
And the preachy temperance tone
And the portrayal of men as animals
And the poor research
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:26 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:The guilt of and effort put by the rapist are independent. Whether the victim was locked in at home with 3 chastity belts on or already naked in an orgy busy with 2 other people, the rapist is just as guilty.

Shhhh -- if you say that too loudly, rape apologists won't be able to argue that women are "making it too easy" on them.

Interesting how neatly rape culture dovetails with the evangelical fundamentalist purity/modesty culture.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

davidstarlingm wrote:Interesting how neatly rape culture dovetails with the evangelical fundamentalist purity/modesty culture.


For them, that's a feature, not a bug.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:52 pm UTC

philsov wrote:Seeing as how the individual is at least in control of themselves, avoiding activities that involve a very high risk is the best thing the individual can do, right?

It's the safest thing, which is not always the best thing. The way to communicate that to these individuals is by writing an article that says "Hey! Our college is full of rapists. FYI." Maybe tell them where they like to hang out.

Alternatively, someone could write an article directed at the actual problem that says "Hey! You! You right there. You're totally raping people. Please stop."

What doesn't help is an article highlighting how many rape victims have long hair, and so any responsible woman would shave her head if she really didn't want to be raped. Because, you know, that invites the reader to draw the conclusion that anyone with long hair must not really care about their personal safety.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

The thing that baffles me about this whole issues is that whenever someone tries to talk about safety and prevention, They get accused of victim blaming. Even if they tread a lot more carefully than the writer of this article did, they might still get some backlash.
The whole notion of safety is dismissed altogether.

Philsov is completely right in what he said. The only person you're in control of is yourself, and it's better to not get mugged, than it is for you to get mugged, even if it's completely the mugger's fault.

The writer of this article re-iterated multiple times that the victims do not deserve less sympathy, and that the perpetrators do not deserve less ire. I think that you are being unfar to the the writer here.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:37 pm UTC

The writer has said no such thing. His concluding sentence is 'maybe the media should blame the victims more':

So media, please help prevent future victims of sexual assault and rape by reporting the other side of these cases, and young women, please wake up and realize that the majority of these incidents happen when the victims are intoxicated.


There's a difference between saying 'be aware that if you get black out drunk, bad things may happen to you' and saying 'when bad things happen to you because you got too drunk, it was your own fault'.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

Right. Anything about "reporting the other side" means reporting anecdotal information about the victim in order to legitimize the rape (note: this is decidedly different from Akin's "legitimate rape", though no less pernicious).

Want to know the bottom line? It doesn't work. Victim-blaming or even victim-profiling does more to reinforce rape culture than it has ever done to make rape more difficult by changing behavior.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:47 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:The writer has said no such thing. His concluding sentence is 'maybe the media should blame the victims more':

So media, please help prevent future victims of sexual assault and rape by reporting the other side of these cases, and young women, please wake up and realize that the majority of these incidents happen when the victims are intoxicated.


There's a difference between saying 'be aware that if you get black out drunk, bad things may happen to you' and saying 'when bad things happen to you because you got too drunk, it was your own fault'.



1. Kirby Wiley is a woman, not a "he"

2.

I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators, because the victims are deserving of sympathy and the offenders deserve to have their faces on the news. But I think everyone, especially victims of these crimes, can agree that preventing future victims of sexual assault and rape is of upmost importance.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:00 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators, because the victims are deserving of sympathy and the offenders deserve to have their faces on the news. But I think everyone, especially victims of these crimes, can agree that preventing future victims of sexual assault and rape is of upmost importance.

Yes, we can agree to this. What we cannot agree to is the idea that singling out the behavior of the victim will have any measurable effect other than encouraging rape apologists and strengthening rape culture.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:04 pm UTC

davidstarlingm wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:
I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators, because the victims are deserving of sympathy and the offenders deserve to have their faces on the news. But I think everyone, especially victims of these crimes, can agree that preventing future victims of sexual assault and rape is of upmost importance.

Yes, we can agree to this. What we cannot agree to is the idea that singling out the behavior of the victim will have any measurable effect other than encouraging rape apologists and strengthening rape culture.


let's zoom in

I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators,

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Aceo » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:06 pm UTC

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:21 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
davidstarlingm wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:
I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators, because the victims are deserving of sympathy and the offenders deserve to have their faces on the news. But I think everyone, especially victims of these crimes, can agree that preventing future victims of sexual assault and rape is of upmost importance.

Yes, we can agree to this. What we cannot agree to is the idea that singling out the behavior of the victim will have any measurable effect other than encouraging rape apologists and strengthening rape culture.


let's zoom in

I am not promoting less sympathy for victims of these incidents or less media coverage of the perpetrators,
Lets! And that's great that *she's* saying that, really, stellar human being saying that rape victims deserve sympathy. Now, lets look at the NEXT paragraph:
So media, please help prevent future victims of sexual assault and rape by reporting the other side of these cases, and young women, please wake up and realize that the majority of these incidents happen when the victims are intoxicated.
and also, lets look two paragraphs up;
If the media begins to draw attention to the details of the sexual assault or rape victim it is hoped that young women will learn from the case, and there will be less sexual assault cases to report.
Because the important thing is reminding young women that when raped, THEY have something to learn! Or another paragraph up;
But, in order to prevent future victims, viewers need to know the other side of things [that rape happens because women get drunk]
Because again, it's not the RAPISTS fault, it's the raped, because she got drunk.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:35 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:Philsov is completely right in what he said. The only person you're in control of is yourself, and it's better to not get mugged, than it is for you to get mugged, even if it's completely the mugger's fault.
While you and philsov are not making false statements, that doesn't make you right. All behaviors carry the risk of violence from another human, but it'd be totally unreasonable for me to suggest that you stop walking down your own street to avoid a mugging. I know you're not going to avoid your own street for fear of a mugging, so really the only purpose this "warning" serves is for me to say "I told you so" if you get mugged on your street.

Similarly, expecting an entire college campus to stop drinking is totally unreasonable. The only purpose this serves is to allow the author to say "I told you so" every time a rape involving alcohol is reported (which is why she also wants all rape reports to now include that information).

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:49 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Lets! And that's great that *she's* saying that, really, stellar human being saying that rape victims deserve sympathy. Now, lets look at the NEXT paragraph:
So media, please help prevent future victims of sexual assault and rape by reporting the other side of these cases, and young women, please wake up and realize that the majority of these incidents happen when the victims are intoxicated.

and also, lets look two paragraphs up;
If the media begins to draw attention to the details of the sexual assault or rape victim it is hoped that young women will learn from the case, and there will be less sexual assault cases to report.

Because the important thing is reminding young women that when raped, THEY have something to learn! Or another paragraph up;


They absolutely do. Your words suggest that you want to rely on the rapists to solve the problem. Are you really comfortable relying on them?

Why does encouraging safety always have to equate to blaming the victim?

IF a person travels with groups of friends, and avoids going beyond their alcohol limit, and stays in relatively save places as to not get assaulted, would you accuse that person of victim blaming?

But, in order to prevent future victims, viewers need to know the other side of things [that rape happens because women get drunk]
Because again, it's not the RAPISTS fault, it's the raped, because she got drunk.


about the bolded part, and your mock of it:
Izawwlgood wrote:The writer has said no such thing.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:They absolutely do. Your words suggest that you want to rely on the rapists to solve the problem. Are you really comfortable relying on them?
I think you need to read up on victim blaming. Yes, to answer your question, I do want to 'rely' on the rapists to solve the problem. Rely is the wrong word; I want to make it clear and obvious that rapists, not the raped, are to blame for rape. Someone gets shot in a shitty neighborhood, you don't say 'Well you shouldn't live in that neighborhood', you say 'STOP FUCKING SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD'.
Is is appalling that rape is a tragedy we blame the victim for.

sam_i_am wrote:Why does encouraging safety always have to equate to blaming the victim?
I distinctly answered this question in the first post you responded to:
Izawwlgood wrote:There's a difference between saying 'be aware that if you get black out drunk, bad things may happen to you' and saying 'when bad things happen to you because you got too drunk, it was your own fault'.
sam_i_am wrote:IF a person travels with groups of friends, and avoids going beyond their alcohol limit, and stays in relatively save places as to not get assaulted, would you accuse that person of victim blaming?
No, I would accuse that person of fearing rapists, not a bad thing to be accused of. If *YOU* went out to a bar, and told a drunk woman to stop drinking because she was going to get raped, I would accuse you of victim blaming.

The issue is NOT with telling women/people to be street smart about dangerous situations, it's about telling them that bad things happening to them IS THEIR FAULT.

In all of this, you have to ask yourself why we aren't simply saying 'Raping someone is heinous, and if they're sober and you're doing it at knife point or blacked out drunk and doing it behind closed doors, IT IS YOUR FAULT FOR RAPING SOMEONE'. Neither the person dragged into an ally, nor the person who drank too much at a party is at fault.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sam_i_am » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:59 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:
sam_i_am wrote:Philsov is completely right in what he said. The only person you're in control of is yourself, and it's better to not get mugged, than it is for you to get mugged, even if it's completely the mugger's fault.
While you and philsov are not making false statements, that doesn't make you right. All behaviors carry the risk of violence from another human, but it'd be totally unreasonable for me to suggest that you stop walking down your own street to avoid a mugging. I know you're not going to avoid your own street for fear of a mugging, so really the only purpose this "warning" serves is for me to say "I told you so" if you get mugged on your street.

Similarly, expecting an entire college campus to stop drinking is totally unreasonable. The only purpose this serves is to allow the author to say "I told you so" every time a rape involving alcohol is reported (which is why she also wants all rape reports to now include that information).


Is it not feasible to you that the article, or articles like it might not convince some people to get less drunk in the future?

Is it not feasible to you that the article or articles like it might not convince people to take other preventative measures, such as staying in public places and hanging out with groups of your friends?

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:02 pm UTC

Sam, I'm not sure how else to put this for you;
Izawwlgood wrote:There's a difference between saying 'be aware that if you get black out drunk, bad things may happen to you' and saying 'when bad things happen to you because you got too drunk, it was your own fault'.


Yes, I wager articles like this *WILL* make women more fearful of getting drunk. Unfortunately, what it's not doing is making people less likely to rape. This is why the phrase 'victim blaming' keeps getting thrown around; it's tackling the issue from the wrong end. This is akin to telling a stabbing victim to get stabbed less, instead of telling a stabber to do less stabbing. Sure, it'll probably result in people being more cautious about getting stabbed. Unfortunately, it's blaming the wrong people in the incident, and ultimately not sending the message that the asshole with the knife is the person we need to be talking about.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:17 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:They absolutely do. Your words suggest that you want to rely on the rapists to solve the problem. Are you really comfortable relying on them?


Sure! Why shouldn't we expect more out of people? I mean, I would wager that it is probably also true that the majority of rapists at colleges were drunk at the time of the incident. Why do you never hear these safety advocates saying "Hey, men, if you have problems controlling yourself when you are drinking, maybe you should stay home and watch porn instead of going to parties?" In fact, educational campaigns targeting potential rapists seem to work. I'm trying to find the original source, but there's apparently a study floating around somewhere from the UK that claims that nearly half of men aged 18-25 don't realise that having sex with a woman while she is drunk is considered rape. I'd like to think if you could properly educated people, you could reduce that number substantially. If not, then yeah, men just shouldn't be around drunk girls at all.

There's also a bystander effect to consider. Even if it doesn't directly affect the rapists, educating people about consent and how to intervene in a situation that could lead to a rape could make all the difference as well.

sam_i_am wrote:Why does encouraging safety always have to equate to blaming the victim?


Because, by and large, most of the people who are "encouraging safety" are, in fact, victim-blaming.

sam_i_am wrote:IF a person travels with groups of friends, and avoids going beyond their alcohol limit, and stays in relatively save places as to not get assaulted, would you accuse that person of victim blaming?


I'm not sure how that helps, considering that the vast majority of rapists are known to the victim, and a significant proportion (IIRC) occur within the victim's own home.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:24 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:Is it not feasible to you that the article, or articles like it might not convince some people to get less drunk in the future?

Is it not feasible to you that the article or articles like it might not convince people to take other preventative measures, such as staying in public places and hanging out with groups of your friends?

It is not feasible that calling media attention to the median BAC of rape victims will result in a significant increase in the difficulty of executing rape, compared to the reinforcement that such attention provides to the rape culture which facilitates and defends rape.

Pretending that defensive measures will significantly deter rape is a pernicious misappropriation of the causes of rape. Rapists are not criminals of opportunity; rapists create their opportunities. Telling women that they are responsible for preventing rape only reinforces the perceptions which allow rapists to more easily create these opportunities.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:36 pm UTC

Disclaimer: Have not read article yet, and thus, cannot comment directly on it. Instead, talking about the larger issue being discussed.

Defensive measures are viable in general. They won't fix a problem overall...but if enough people do it, they can have a statistical effect. You lock your doors on your car and take your keys with you to prevent your vehicle being stolen, sure, but if everyone does it, it raises the difficulty for car theives a bit. Therefore, advocating defensive actions is a plausible strategy. Avoiding being blackout drunk is good policy in general. It's something that should be suggested even if we don't take this into account. I'm all for teaching people about using alcohol responsibly and trying to counter binge drinking culture.

As for defensive measures, I suggest handguns. Dead rapists is a great way to fix rape culture.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:56 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Defensive measures are viable in general. They won't fix a problem overall...but if enough people do it, they can have a statistical effect. You lock your doors on your car and take your keys with you to prevent your vehicle being stolen, sure, but if everyone does it, it raises the difficulty for car theives a bit. Therefore, advocating defensive actions is a plausible strategy. Avoiding being blackout drunk is good policy in general. It's something that should be suggested even if we don't take this into account. I'm all for teaching people about using alcohol responsibly and trying to counter binge drinking culture.

As for defensive measures, I suggest handguns. Dead rapists is a great way to fix rape culture.

You can encourage defensive measures without reinforcing rape culture. Instead of saying "Women get raped because they drink/go dancing/dress provocatively/etc.," say "Rapists profile potential victims according to the following criteria while using social stigma to avoid detection while raping and deflect blame afterward."

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sardia » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:00 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Disclaimer: Have not read article yet, and thus, cannot comment directly on it. Instead, talking about the larger issue being discussed.

Defensive measures are viable in general. They won't fix a problem overall...but if enough people do it, they can have a statistical effect. You lock your doors on your car and take your keys with you to prevent your vehicle being stolen, sure, but if everyone does it, it raises the difficulty for car theives a bit. Therefore, advocating defensive actions is a plausible strategy. Avoiding being blackout drunk is good policy in general. It's something that should be suggested even if we don't take this into account. I'm all for teaching people about using alcohol responsibly and trying to counter binge drinking culture.

As for defensive measures, I suggest handguns. Dead rapists is a great way to fix rape culture.

Now there's an idea. Let's give young adults who don't know how to control themselves firearms so they can combine drug abuse (alcohol) and guns. How does a gun work on a non-movie style rape? Does it stop the rape victim from consuming alcohol?

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Heisenberg » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:03 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:All behaviors carry the risk of violence from another human, but it'd be totally unreasonable for me to suggest that you stop walking down your own street to avoid a mugging. I know you're not going to avoid your own street for fear of a mugging, so really the only purpose this "warning" serves is for me to say "I told you so" if you get mugged on your street.

Similarly, expecting an entire college campus to stop drinking is totally unreasonable. The only purpose this serves is to allow the author to say "I told you so" every time a rape involving alcohol is reported (which is why she also wants all rape reports to now include that information).


Is it not feasible to you that the article, or articles like it might not convince some people to get less drunk in the future?

Is it not feasible to you that the article or articles like it might not convince people to take other preventative measures, such as staying in public places and hanging out with groups of your friends?
If the author's intent was to empower women to avoid rape, she did a piss-poor job of it. She didn't offer any sort of advice or aid, demanding that these women not only "prevent getting themselves into a vulnerable situation," (read: vulnerability is the woman's fault) but also asks the women to "come up with a game plan" on their own which will somehow grant them immunity to rape (read: a woman has a responsibility to prevent her own rape).

Even if a foolproof "game plan" to prevent rape did exist, and were as simple as wearing the color yellow, the idea that a woman must change her lifestyle, even just a little, to avoid rape is despicable. The problem here is not alcohol abuse, it is that men are raping women, men are raping other men, and that men are raping children.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby LaserGuy » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:11 pm UTC

Heisenberg wrote:It is that men are raping women, men are raping other men, and that men are raping children.


At the risk of being obtuse, in light of this particularly strong statement, I feel the need to point out that female-on-male rape can happen too. Admittedly, it's a minority of cases, but it does happen.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby davidstarlingm » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:53 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:
Heisenberg wrote:It is that men are raping women, men are raping other men, and that men are raping children.


At the risk of being obtuse, in light of this particularly strong statement, I feel the need to point out that female-on-male rape can happen too. Admittedly, it's a minority of cases, but it does happen.

The solution is to replace "men" with "rapists" in three of the four usages above.

Note: this is not an advisable substitution in general.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby sigsfried » Wed Nov 06, 2013 10:16 pm UTC

That does get into an issue of definition, if you mean by rape, the crime named rape then in many areas women are by definition incapable of rape, or only capable of statutory rape. While ideally this should be changed it is for the most part an unnecessary distraction as it affects such a small portion of cases and there are much bigger problems with rape laws as it stands.

As for defensive measures, I suggest handguns. Dead rapists is a great way to fix rape culture.


In the overwhelming majority of cases I don't see a firearm being useful and I certainly doubt it will go anyway to fix the cultural issues.

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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby jseah » Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:22 am UTC

Are we also working on the problem on the other direction?
It seems that if we all just less hung up on the whole sex thing, rape might eventually be classified as a crime similar to mugging.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby Shro » Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:39 am UTC

So Slate's Emily Yoffe (Dear Prudence) published this article on Oct. 15th.

Here are some replies.

Here is Yoffe's reply to the replies.

So in conclusion, this article was most likely written as click bait because of all of this.
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Re: Southern Methodist University student solves rape

Postby BattleMoose » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:23 am UTC

I would like to talk about cycling through traffic circles.

I have cycled for many years now and in my earlier years it became apparent, by a number of near misses, that motorists often do not look for cyclists and consequently don't yield to cyclists. This is a widespread problem and the problem is that motorists do not yield to cyclists. If I don't go through the circles carefully and slowly and make sure I am seen, I could be a victim! Blame, responsibility and liablity for a collision is very clearly with the motorists who are obliged to obey the road rules.

But I don't want to be a victim and run over. That would suck. I should be able to navigate traffic circles confident in the knowledge that motorists will respect my place on the road and obey the road rules and yield to me. But the world just doesn't work like that. So again, I don't want to be run over, so I take actions, actions I should not need to take, to avoid being run over. I go slowly through the circle, and watch and make eye contact with each vehicle in turn that is obliged to yield to me. And I would give this very same advise to any and every road cyclist out there. Giving such warnings and advise on how to navigate traffic circles safely is in no way victim blaming. Its entire purpose is to prevent people getting run over.

Now blaming a cyclist for such an accident is victim blaming. Saying how a cyclist should have behaved is also victim blaming. Advising cyclists on how to safely navigate traffic circles amid dangerous motorists, is pragmatic advise that responsible cyclists should follow.

But that doesn't apply to rape at all. Its not appropriate to advise women on how to avoid dangerous situations regarding rape. As has been demonstrated in this thread from the very start.

The lesson here is, don't advise women on how to avoid being raped, because you will be accused of victim blaming.


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