The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby morriswalters » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:17 am UTC

An interesting question comes to mind. Could we operate anywhere near this level if we didn't have smart machines? Could we keep the system going without this technology?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:23 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:An interesting question comes to mind. Could we operate anywhere near this level if we didn't have smart machines? Could we keep the system going without this technology?
What is "this level"? If you are talking about present-day, then no. Imagine google or facebook without "smart machines". The sword has two very sharp edges, no doubt. But we are already dependent on smart machines.

Related question: If {country A} backed out, forsaking further development of smart machines, and {country B} did not, what would the political landscape look like?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby morriswalters » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:42 am UTC

ucim wrote:What is "this level"?
Supporting about 7 billion in population.
ucim wrote:Related question: If {country A} backed out, forsaking further development of smart machines, and {country B} did not, what would the political landscape look like?
I'm tempted to answer, what do the Amish look like in their quaint buggies? But in reality I have no idea. I suppose you could look at China turning away from the world when they gave up the oceans.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:07 am UTC

@ ucim, the thread has moved on. But I think you misattributed my words to commodorejohn. Just an FYI.

Beyond that, the main issue with "strong" AI is that as soon as a computer accomplishes a "strong AI" task, people slowly think its no longer an intelligent task. That is, the definition of "Strong AI" changes with the times and with our expectations of computers.

There was a time when winning at Chess was all you needed to prove intelligence. There was a time when intelligence was about searching through tends of thousands of documents, remembering what was in each and picking out the relevant info (and damn, Google is free now!). I almost assure you that we will never get "strong" AI because as soon as "Strong AI" is invented, people will realize that "Oh, but Computers can do that. So it really wasn't a test of intelligence".

Overall, AI and algorithms will improve dramatically in the coming years, and accomplish new goals and tasks that used to be the realm of humans. That I can agree on.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ucim » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:26 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Supporting about 7 billion in population.
No, we can't do that without current tech. And we can't do current tech without our smart machines. But 7 billion people is too many. It's a cancer. It overwhelms the rest of the biome. Overpopulation is one of the problems we'll be handing to the AIs to solve. We won't like the solution, so we'll hand them the power to enforce it. 90% of us won't like the result.

KnightExemplar wrote:@ ucim, the thread has moved on. But I think you misattributed my words to commodorejohn. Just an FYI.
Fixed. Sorry about that.

Anyway, I've said my piece; I'll let it drop. But first, I'll recommend the movie Rabbit Proof Fence.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Yakk » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:24 pm UTC

The future:

We have a drug that is actually in human use that seems to make you immune to HIV infection via sexual acts.

We have removed below detection HIV in human/rat hybrid models by editing the DNA of the immune cells in-place and removing the HIV virus genes. The technique seems to generalize to ... most viruses. This could be penicillin big.

A microbe that seems to eat hard radiation was found in south africa.

Humans can outrun T.Rex's.

Hubble just proved Einstien wrong; it carefully measured the mass of a white dwarf using gravitational lensing. It matches Einstien's math and our model of white dwarf radius/mass perfectly. Einstien wrote in his paper that his prediction would probably never be practically tested, because he didn't expect super space telescopes.

We have close in weather movies of Jupiter.

Life-after death; biological processes (and not just bacteria) continue after a vertibrate is dead. They are being mapped out to better understand death itself, including gene expressions. This may improve transplant and forensic technology.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Zohar » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:46 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Humans can outrun T.Rex's.

I'll believe it when we finally clone T-Rex and start making the Olympics a lot more exciting.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby karhell » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:17 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:
Yakk wrote:Humans can outrun T.Rex's.

I'll believe it when we finally clone T-Rex and start making the Olympics a lot more exciting.
That might actually get me to watch the olympics X)

Yakk wrote:We have removed below detection HIV in human/rat hybrid models by editing the DNA of the immune cells in-place and removing the HIV virus genes. The technique seems to generalize to ... most viruses. This could be penicillin big.
If this does turn out to generalise to most viruses, it's pretty big indeed. Mind you, even if it doesn't, just removing HIV to that level is a pretty damn impressive achievement.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby orthogon » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:00 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:Einstien

"My name ... is Franken-STEEN"
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby simplydt » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:39 am UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
sardia wrote:Wait, don't you think we could get human level intelligence from a computer in less than 10 years?


I'm a bit confused by this question. Clearly, we have super-human AIs in Chess, Go, and Poker.


Really depends on what you define as intelligence. I'd say we have super-human well-defined problem solvers..., even machine learning kind of seems like "fake" intelligence.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:58 pm UTC

Y'all have three options.

A. Tell me where the AI talk started and I'll split the stuff out from there and you guys can enjoy your own thread.

B. Just stop chattering about it here and find one of the other AI threads in NA (or SB or Computer Science) and pick it up there.

C. Keep talking about it here and I'll amuse myself by changing AI to something more relevant to my personal life. Because I own a goat.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby mfb » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:46 pm UTC

Splitting will be challenging.
This post looks like the start of the recent discussion, but the following page has many rocket-related posts and some mixed posts before we got nearly 100% Starcraft and Chess bots and finally AI in general.


A third gravitational wave event - they get more frequent with increasing detector sensitivity.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Yakk » Tue Jun 13, 2017 2:28 pm UTC

The Future: The long peace has lasted for 70 years. 70 years since the last great powers hot war ended, when we became death destroyer of worlds.

Only the elders remember when we lacked the technology to destroy the human race. The peace has been long lasting, with proxy wars abounding, but no hot shooting war of conquest between great powers has occurred in almost 3/4 of a century.

This experment -- can humankind change? Can empires change? -- is one that can only end in the destruction of humanity. It either goes on forever, never proving itself, or it ends in extinction.

War. War never changes. Geopolitics looks different than it has since the dawn of recorded history.

Russian intelligence agencies create fake facebook accounts and friend enemy soldiers with sexy pictures, then feed them propoganda through social media. This is now part of what war looks like.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sociotard » Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:19 pm UTC

San Francisco Giants players are using electric zaps to improve brain performance during play. And you thought you'd never see cyberware enhancements in sports.
http://fortune.com/2017/03/29/san-franc ... eadphones/

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Thesh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

Sounds like ol' fashioned snakeoil to me, but I can't view the site.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby SDK » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

Relevant bits.

Forbes wrote:The San Francisco Giants may be wearing headphones while they train, but they're not listening to music. They are getting their brains "stimulated" to improve their batting, pitching, and catching.

The headphones are a new tool used by the Giants in hopes of enhancing player performance across the board. The team's deal with the device's maker, Halo Neuroscicnce, is the first public pact with a Major Baseball League team and a sign of how sci-fi technology is making inroads into pro sports.
...
The theory is that low-level electric pulses, known as transcranial direct current stimulation, from the headphones stimulate a part of the brain known as the motor cortex... The goal is to help athletes hone their "muscle memory" so they react more quickly, seemingly without thought, to a pitched or batted ball, or a runner leaving base.
...
The Giants actually started testing the Halo Sport headgear at last year's spring training with half the team using the gear, half not. Afterwards, they crunched numbers and found that the half that used headgear showed significant performance improvement over the control group across nine standard performance metrics, according to a Halo spokeswoman. Most important, they showed significant improvement in speed, across the board as measured by how fast the player moved the bat or ran the bases as well as in fine motor skills: which encompass how they grip the bat or ball.
...
There has been peer-reviewed research on transcranial direct current stimulation, and Halo has submitted its own research which has yet to be published.


Interesting, though the training wasn't double blind (should have had everyone wear headphones, but only keep half of them working). It's possible we're just seeing a placebo effect, but it sounds cool. Seems odd that an external pulse could help to setup a new neural pathway though. It's the repetition that sets up that "muscle memory", each time reinforcing that connection, and I'm not sure why zapping that general area of the brain would help make that process faster on an individual connection level.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:06 pm UTC

Anybody else thinking of the game that rewards players by electronically stimulating their pleasure centers in that horrible Star Trek TNG episode?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Thesh » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:10 pm UTC

Is there a single sport or game in the future that doesn't lead to a bad episode of Star Trek?
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:29 pm UTC

Tribble Bowling?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Chen » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:32 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Is there a single sport or game in the future that doesn't lead to a bad episode of Star Trek?


The baseball DS9 episode was a great one.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:08 pm UTC

Just need some ED209s (and a ban on soft surfaces) and they're laughing...

(Until something goes wrong, invoking Murphy's law...)

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby pogrmman » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:29 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Thesh wrote:Is there a single sport or game in the future that doesn't lead to a bad episode of Star Trek?


The baseball DS9 episode was a great one.


But you also have the allamaraine! episode to counter that...

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Chen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:02 pm UTC

pogrmman wrote:But you also have the allamaraine! episode to counter that...


Well yeah that was awful, but my point was just that not all sports episodes were bad.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sardia » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:08 pm UTC

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/0 ... lly-better
Despite what veg heads claim, there's a limit to how far you can cut meat consumption. I'm still going to aim for less meat, but anyone who wants to splurge on full on vegetarian should know it's a luxury.
cutting meat completely would not be as good a solution as it seems.
As people eat less meat, they need to eat more plants, so farming areas need to be converted accordingly. In some areas where the land is not easily arable, such as mountainous regions with dry climate, grazing cattle, sheep, and goats is actually converting inedible grass into edible meat and milk. Pigs and chickens could be fed leftover foods; leftover food amounts to an absurd one-third of total food produced in the world. In some poor regions, meat and milk consumption is the only reliable source of protein and fat. Also, in poor regions, many people work with livestock. They could be redirected and trained for farming, but due to limitations with soil quality this may not be an easy shift.

Switching to a vegetarian (no-meat, but egg and dairy are okay) as opposed to a strict vegan diet is also impractical, since, in the case of livestock, cows must calve every year to keep producing milk and 50 percent of their offspring are males. What do we do with them?

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:37 pm UTC

Here's an article on Farming Robots

But if you do get a peek, you won’t see anything humanoid or space-aged. AgroBot is still more John Deere than C-3PO — a boxy contraption moving in fits and starts, with its computer-driven sensors, graspers and cutters missing 1 in 3 berries.


They're more like vastly improved tractors with AI built in than anything you've seen in SciFi... but they get the job done. One of these "Farming Robots" (according to the article anyway) is Planttape: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaDB5fS6HmA

Roughly, two people with Planttape (A driver for the tractor, plus the person in the back who feeds the machine) can do the work of 20-men... as far as transplanting Lettuce is concerned.

--------

Some comments were critical of Argobot, but its still looks like an impressive machine to me. It picks out strawberries from the field, although a human is still needed to package the Strawberries... the human is far more efficient at the job: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKT351pQHfI

The criticisms include that the Argobot still picks too many unripe Strawberries and leaves too many ripe strawberries on the field. Improvements to the optical recognition software and sensors may make it better. Humans are still best at the job, but the question is when will Argobot be more cost-effective than low wage workers?
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby trpmb6 » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:21 pm UTC

The larger farming equipment like Combines these days are pretty much automated. GPS driven for laying seed and then later can follow the exact same path to harvest. Just one of the areas where big farms are able to be a touch more efficient than the standard mom and pop farms. It makes using custom cutters more appealing since they tend to have the top of the line equipment.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:38 pm UTC

Either Elon Musk is a genius, or nuts, or both. But he dreams big. If he pulls this off I will weep for joy, just because I lived to see it and that a human could do it. I'm funny that way.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby trpmb6 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:07 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Either Elon Musk is a genius, or nuts, or both. But he dreams big. If he pulls this off I will weep for joy, just because I lived to see it and that a human could do it. I'm funny that way.


What exactly about this are you excited about? He's already landing boosters on barges (which is way more difficult than landing on land btw). Is it that your'e excited about the Falcon Heavy (vs the falon 9 which is already doing exactly what was shown?). It's not that big of an achievement beyond what they've already accomplished. Just scaling it up (I'm not trying to trivialize this aspect, just noting that the hard part - landing a resuable booster - is basically done).

Perhaps you meant to link a video to his Mars colony dreams? They released a video earlier this year on it. Quite an impressive plan they have.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby morriswalters » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

Doing three at once. You don't need to be excited, I'll be excited for the both of us. I watched Shepard fly in a Mercury craft. I tormented my mother until she kept me home from school so I could watch. You don't appreciate the difference, I guess. I don't care about Mars. I would like to see another American fly in a Dragon. This is a step back towards the moon.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby New User » Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:04 pm UTC


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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby KnightExemplar » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:29 pm UTC

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/rele ... 0808a.html

Mazda is announcing a Internal-combustion-engine breakthrough: Compression Ignition on standard gasoline / petrol.

Mazda is claiming to get the fuel efficiency of Diesel while burning cleaner gasoline / petrol. Pretty nifty. Its planned to be released to the public in 2019.

Compression ignition makes possible a super lean burn*4 that improves engine efficiency up to 20-30 percent over the current SKYACTIV-G, and from 35-45 percent over Mazda's 2008 gasoline engine of the same displacement. SKYACTIV-X even equals or exceeds the latest SKYACTIV-D diesel engine in fuel efficiency.


Of course, electric cars and hybrids are beginning to hit their stride, but improvements to standard cars remain impressive nonetheless. I'd expect that people will still be driving normal gasoline cars in 2019, and even through 2030. So improvements in gasoline cars may be more important over the next decade, at lest from a carbon footprint perspective.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:52 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Doing three at once. You don't need to be excited, I'll be excited for the both of us. I watched Shepard fly in a Mercury craft. I tormented my mother until she kept me home from school so I could watch. You don't appreciate the difference, I guess. I don't care about Mars. I would like to see another American fly in a Dragon. This is a step back towards the moon.

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Again, doing three at once isn't really all that exciting.

Don't mistake me, I'm an aerospace engineer. I've taken masters level classes in orbital flight mechanics. What SpaceX is doing IS awesome.

Musk dreams big, and that drives his company to accomplish great things. But Musk is an a-hole. The real accomplishments are done by the men and women I graduated with and now work for him.

I hope they succeed. Especially since we have no American made man* rated spaceflight vehicles at this time. *(edit: forgive my antiquated use of man rated, it's been ingrained in my industry language for a long time. NASA and others have begun pushing the use of human-rated et.al.)

By the way, if you're truly interested in space. Visit the Cosmosphere in Kansas. They have the Apollo 13 Odyssey capsule and the Liberty Bell- Mercury 7 capsule (currently on loan to the children's museum in Indianapolis though). Along with many other artifacts.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:03 pm UTC

(Compression ignition petrol.)

If economies of scale don't work against the principle, then miniature topping-up multi-hydrocarbon engines (as I've heard also mentioned for wankel and turbine miniature power units) is probably the way to go in the near future, anyway.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby sardia » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:11 pm UTC

Soupspoon wrote:(Compression ignition petrol.)

If economies of scale don't work against the principle, then miniature topping-up multi-hydrocarbon engines (as I've heard also mentioned for wankel and turbine miniature power units) is probably the way to go in the near future, anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneo ... advantages
Achieving cold start capability.
High heat release and pressure rise rates contribute to engine wear.
Autoignition is difficult to control, unlike the ignition event in SI and diesel engines, which are controlled by spark plugs and in-cylinder fuel injectors, respectively.[6]
HCCI engines have a small power range, constrained at low loads by lean flammability limits and high loads by in-cylinder pressure restrictions.[7]
Carbon monoxide (CO) and hydrocarbon (HC) pre-catalyst emissions are higher than a typical spark ignition engine, caused by incomplete oxidation (due to the rapid combustion event and low in-cylinder temperatures) and trapped crevice gases, respectively.[8]
hopefully, they'll defeat these problems.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:20 pm UTC

I seem to have edited out the "serial hybrid" part of my suggestion.

Thus intelligent starting is necessary (with all the problems noted), but them optimal power-range is taken advantage of rather than having to be engineered around. (As, in different ways, the turbine and wankel solutions do.)

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Zamfir » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:27 pm UTC

hopefully, they'll defeat these problems.

The Mazda engine will have a regular spark plug, so presumably they intend to use that for the cases where HCCI struggles. It's enough if they can use it in a narrow band, as long as that band matches typical cruising performance.

I have seen these HCCI initiatives go up and disappear several times, but never as confident as this one.

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby morriswalters » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:01 am UTC

trpmb6 wrote:By the way, if you're truly interested in space.
I seen exemplars of almost every rocket and crewed space craft. The most fun however was at the United States National Radio Quiet Zone facilities. Probably on the hit list of the Empty Suit President. Check it out if you get out that way. Turn your cell phone off. If Musk flies a crewed mission before I shuffle off, I will go.

On cars.
The trend seems to be land tanks or road sharks. Where do these beasts swim? My Doctor will never drive any car if they can't provide 625 HP and purr like a lusty kitten. He drives either one of two Shelby Cobras or a Corvette. Told me today that the Vette got 25 MPG. Has a garage elevator for them to conserve space. Sigh. :(

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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby elasto » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:31 pm UTC

Researchers from the University of Washington say they have successfully hacked into a computer using custom strands of DNA for the first time.

Akin to something from the pages of science fiction, the researchers used the life-encoding molecule to attack and take over a computer, using strands of DNA to transmit a computer virus from the biological to the digital realm.

“We designed and created a synthetic DNA strand that contained malicious computer code encoded in the bases of the DNA strand,” wrote the researchers led by Tadayoshi Kohno and Luis Ceze from the Paul G Allen school of computer science and engineering at the University of Washington.

“When this physical strand was sequenced and processed by the vulnerable program it gave remote control of the computer doing the processing. That is, we were able to remotely exploit and gain full control over a computer using adversarial synthetic DNA.”

The researchers used the four bases in DNA, adenine, cytosine, guanine and thymine – A, C, G and T – to encode their malware, which when read by a piece of DNA sequencing equipment converted the molecular code into computer code capable of taking over the computer connected to the DNA sequencer.

The hack was only possible because of weakness in the DNA sequencing software, and only in this specific instance.


How bizarre, albeit pretty harmless at this stage. But imagine if the DNA sequencing software were running on a police computer and gave a criminal access. That really would be straight out of a sci-fi novel.

And it once again illustrates that cybersecurity has to be a consideration absolutely everywhere.

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Liri
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby Liri » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:45 pm UTC

I guess we won't have DNA checks in voting booths any time soon. Oh well, y'know.
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Re: The Thread To Remind Me We're Living In The Future

Postby ahammel » Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:00 pm UTC

Here's the paper (PDF) describing the DNA hack.

Tl;dr it's a buffer overflow exploit in a compression utility. And they cheated a bit by changing the compression utility to be exploitable.

Really impressive hack, though. They didn't have a lot of bits to work with, and they had to change constants in the code to get a good mix of zeros and ones (!) so that the DNA strand would have the right physical properties.

As somebody who used to work with these tools for a living, I would not be surprised at all to learn that they're stuffed to the gills with buffer overflow exploits.
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