The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby PAstrychef » Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:49 pm UTC

This person had a mother. I would hope she never suggested that mass murder was the correct response to a shitty love life. The non-response of campus security rather sucks too.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Chen » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:06 pm UTC

The article tends to imply it's Utah's state open carry laws that were preventing the additional screening/preventing the concealed weapons bit. Utah State University is public, so I suppose its possible the state laws were what prevented the increased secrurity/banning of concealed weapons etc.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:13 pm UTC

Not sure if that letter is real* or not, but evidently, the writer accomplished his objective.

*Questioning the validity of his intent, not if it was actually sent.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:25 pm UTC

I certainly sympathize with Anita's goal, and condemn the threat against her, but...while she should certainly have canceled the talk in the absence of gun checks by the police, it's a bit shitty of her to blame the police for...not breaking the law and infringing on rights. Blame the law or the state culture, but don't shit on the police who are (in this one, brief example) between a rock and a hard place.

(Gah, it felt really weird to say something in support of police.)
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Vahir » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:14 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:The fora's been pretty silent on the whole 'gamergate' debacle, which is fair play as we all know that it's right-thinking people vs. womenphobic whiny bullying manchildren getting hysterical over ridiculous conspiracies, but I think things just got pushed up a notch with this massacre threat against Anita Sarkeesian?

Image
(sorse)

She's cancelled the talk, as security didn't think that security needed beefing up in light of this. What dicks !

I mean... fucking hell. I've always thought that the gamergate (non)scandal attracted the real loser dregs of gamer society (and there were enough for me to conclude that the term 'gamer' as a subculture was a toxic term effectuated by pathetic bullying misogynistic losers, and so I would never identify with it, despite the fact that playing video games is the most time-consuming of my hobbies) like flies to a cow's butthole, but suddenly I'm worried there's another Elliot Rodger on the loose. (I mean, sure, there are likely hundreds of them, but it's a stark reminder that these guys exist, and aren't seeking help for their delusions and deteriorated mental health).


Thank you for your fair and objective view on the situation, and not judging an entire movement on the actions of crazy people. Your restraint is really to be admired.

Sarcasm aside, this has nothing to do with Gamergate.The only way you could draw a link is by saying that the trolls who issued the threat are probably also gamergaters (?) as well, so Gamergate is evil, Q.E.D..

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby leady » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:22 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:I certainly sympathize with Anita's goal, and condemn the threat against her, but...while she should certainly have canceled the talk in the absence of gun checks by the police, it's a bit shitty of her to blame the police for...not breaking the law and infringing on rights. Blame the law or the state culture, but don't shit on the police who are (in this one, brief example) between a rock and a hard place.


This is her goal and shes really really good at it. Shes has traded a closed auditorum of say 200 people for major national exposure of her position and probably pocketted a fair few quid to boot.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby PolakoVoador » Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:41 pm UTC

Why, oh why would I go and read the comments sections of this story? I shoud've learned already not to do it.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:01 pm UTC

#Gamergate is a shitstorm.

Image

No movement of that size gets to be that big without a seed of grief somewhere. The majority of #Gamergate articles I've read focus on the media circle-jerk with focus on various gaming articles. And... I don't think it is controversial to say that Game Journalists have sorta formed a clique and their viewpoints on some issues do not necessarily mash up with their readers anymore.

As far as death threats and mysogony in general... yeah, that's bad. But I don't think that's what #Gamergate was supposed to represent originally.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby leady » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:10 pm UTC

gamergate is funny, because on the one hand its close to 100% true and at the same time 99% so what?

I mean articles like the one earlier this week decrying the use of "stealth assasination" mechanics to steal a kiss in the tutorial on Kotaku (sp) make me think "what the hell?" but you don't need to read their crazy nonsense :)

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Felstaff » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:23 pm UTC

Vahir wrote:
Felstaff wrote:The fora's been pretty silent on the whole 'gamergate' debacle, which is fair play as we all know that it's right-thinking people vs. womenphobic whiny bullying manchildren getting hysterical over ridiculous conspiracies...


Thank you for your fair and objective view on the situation, and not judging an entire movement on the actions of crazy people. Your restraint is really to be admired.

Fair and objective wasn't the angle I was particularly going for, and neither was restraint nor admirability. Your sarcasm was noted, brushed off accordingly. Gamergate started because a woman slept with a man in order to get a good review for a game ...only she didn't and that never happened. But why let facts get in the way of a good slut shaming? Basing an entire movement on a complete fabrication is how most religions start. Gamergate is no different, and thus I can sleep soundly at night having happily judged an entire movement on the actions of crazy people, as you so profoundly put it.

A good movement forms on the basis of being disenfranchised. Buying luxury entertainment products then getting in a huff when told that the products themselves are examples of systemic sexism going back to the very founding of their being is so far from being disenfranchised, it robs the actually disenfranchised of their disenfranchisement. Having your 3-decade-long little-boys-club-circle-jerk-party (complete with 'no girls allowed' signs on the treehouse door) interrupted by the marginalised themselves who demand that they take a look at their history of sexism and root it out so future luxury entertainment products are free from the codified bias so inherent in male-dominated industries is a perfectly reasonable demand to make. Anyone who actually thinks it's about corruption in gaming journalism is... well, that's just laughable. I lament those who believe this.

leady wrote:
KrytenKoro wrote:I certainly sympathize with Anita's goal, and condemn the threat against her, but...while she should certainly have canceled the talk in the absence of gun checks by the police, it's a bit shitty of her to blame the police for...not breaking the law and infringing on rights. Blame the law or the state culture, but don't shit on the police who are (in this one, brief example) between a rock and a hard place.

This is her goal and shes really really good at it. Shes has traded a closed auditorum of say 200 people for major national exposure of her position and probably pocketted a fair few quid to boot.

How did you know this was her goal? What money could she allegedly have pocketed as a result? How can you explain your poorly-thought out, barely literate picayune post without coming across as anything but ignorant? Fortunately for you, I have all the answers! a.) this wasn't, b.) she didn't, and c.) I'm pretty sure you can't.

For clarity:
a.) her goal was to pass on knowledge and wisdom through a lecture, as that is the goal of people invited to lectures. The actions of one individual (and inaction of several others) has now prevented this.
b.) I'm pretty sure the university of Utah weren't going to pay her a life-changing sum of money to give a lecture. Even if they were, now she's cancelled, she won't get any money at all, will she?
c.) I haven't given it much thought, but then again, neither did you.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Zcorp » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:37 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:
Vahir wrote:
Felstaff wrote:The fora's been pretty silent on the whole 'gamergate' debacle, which is fair play as we all know that it's right-thinking people vs. womenphobic whiny bullying manchildren getting hysterical over ridiculous conspiracies...


Thank you for your fair and objective view on the situation, and not judging an entire movement on the actions of crazy people. Your restraint is really to be admired.

Fair and objective wasn't the angle I was particularly going for, and neither was restraint nor admirability. Your sarcasm was noted, brushed off accordingly. Gamergate started because a woman slept with a man in order to get a good review for a game ...only she didn't and that never happened. But why let facts get in the way of a good slut shaming?

It didn't start with slut shaming, when you state that it does it suggests you know little about the truth of this whole messes origin, which considering you seem to be proud of not being fair, objective or reasonable is...sad.

This started not because Quinn's ex hates promiscuous women but because he claims she betrayed him. Being angry at and hurt by someone who betrays you is no where close to hating them because they enjoy casual sex with various partners.

Let me also be clear that I'm not defending her Ex's decision to post their personal drama online to shame her about her betrayal, but lets at least be reasonable enough not to lie about the facts of this event.


Basing an entire movement on a complete fabrication is how most religions start. Gamergate is no different, and thus I can sleep soundly at night having happily judged an entire movement on the actions of crazy people, as you so profoundly put it.

Sad.
The corruption in game journalism and how it harms everyone that creates, consumes or potentially profits from those opinions and analysis is a very useful and meaningful discussion to have.

You can be better than this, you can choose to be part of progress toward something better rather than perpetuating the problem.
Last edited by Zcorp on Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:53 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:42 pm UTC

Mostly, I wish the whole thing would just go away. I don't care if she did sleep with someone to get ahead. Meh. If so, that's not the first time it's happened, and gaming journalism has basically been garbage for ages anyway. It's not like this caused it. Also, I am not shocked or impressed that a public figure got a death threat. Welcome to the club. I ended up in the news once, and the reddit thread on me had no shortage of threats. Lotta blowhard idiots on the internet.

This all seems to have because a "cause" for the meaniehead crowd and the MRA crowd to scream at each other. Mostly, I'm just hoping that all quiet down and go away where I don't have to hear from either crowd ever again. Then maybe we can chat about video games in peace.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Xeio » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:46 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Mostly, I wish the whole thing would just go away. I don't care if she did sleep with someone to get ahead. Meh. If so, that's not the first time it's happened, and gaming journalism has basically been garbage for ages anyway. It's not like this caused it.
My biggest problem with it is that gamers didn't care for, what, a decade, more? About blatant advertising and paid pieces and poor games journalism.

And then suddenly it's a sex scandal involving a woman and #GamersGate appears. I don't know for sure that says something about the community, but it's sure one hell of a coincidence if not.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:50 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Gamergate started because a woman slept with a man in order to get a good review for a game ...only she didn't and that never happened. But why let facts get in the way of a good slut shaming? Basing an entire movement on a complete fabrication is how most religions start. Gamergate is no different, and thus I can sleep soundly at night having happily judged an entire movement on the actions of crazy people, as you so profoundly put it.


Perhaps thats why the #Gamergate twitter tag started, but the history is deeper than that.

Anyone who actually thinks it's about corruption in gaming journalism is... well, that's just laughable. I lament those who believe this.


Are you familiar with the Phil Fish controversy? #Gamergate is very much a continuation of Phil Fish, especially since Zoey Quinn has been shown to be connected to Phil Fish. Phil Fish is way older than #Gamergate. #Gamergate is a perfect shitstorm that was created when the internet hate machine collided with another set of jackasses.

The issue of "gaming journalism" strikes to the core of the issue, and is at least a year older than the misogynistic bullshit that is going on #Gamergate right now.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Vahir » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:52 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:Mostly, I wish the whole thing would just go away. I don't care if she did sleep with someone to get ahead. Meh. If so, that's not the first time it's happened, and gaming journalism has basically been garbage for ages anyway. It's not like this caused it.
My biggest problem with it is that gamers didn't care for, what, a decade, more? About blatant advertising and paid pieces and poor games journalism.

And then suddenly it's a sex scandal involving a woman and #GamersGate appears. I don't know for sure that says something about the community, but it's sure one hell of a coincidence if not.


Gamers did care, but the for years the issue has been shrugged off as "meh, what can you do?", much in the same way as one might sigh in exasperation at the incompetency of politicians. It takes a catalyst to get everyone focused and active on an issue like this. Personally, I don't care much about the issue one way or another, but there are people that do, and hijacking the discussion into a meaniehead one is misguided.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:59 pm UTC

Just so people are clear on how the hate started...

Phil Fish gets a hate-mob against him (I'm going to ignore THAT controversy for now). He eventually quits making video games due to the death threats. Death Threats / hate talk naturally flows to Zoe Quinn, as #Gamergate uncovers an alleged connection between the two. Anita Sarkeesian believes the whole issue is about Feminism, but completely ignores the history as she rushes to defend Zoe Quinn, one of the few female game developers in the industry.

Which... to be fair... I can see why Anita Sarkeesian thinks this is a feminist issue. But... that's not how this started.

But it doesn't help that Anita Sarkeesian is clearly playing the media to push her feminist views. The internet hate-mob, originally pissed at Phil Fish, are now confused how this all turned into a feminist issue... and start making threats against feminism in general.... including attacking Anita Sarkeesian.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Xeio » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:12 pm UTC

Interesting, none of the TL;DR's for #GamerGate I've seen/read up till this point had anything earlier than Zoe Quinn.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:35 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:Interesting, none of the TL;DR's for #GamerGate I've seen/read up till this point had anything earlier than Zoe Quinn.


Indeed. The whole hate-train arguably started in response to the 2012 movie "Indie Game: The Movie", how Phil Fish was somewhat of a jerk online, and how people were overreacting to the indie game "Fez".

Phil Fish was named by Notch as a reason for him quitting the Minecraft scene. He's not really a name you should know... but he's honestly a major centerpiece to the whole shebang.

http://notch.net/2014/09/im-leaving-mojang/
I watched the This is Phil Fish video on YouTube and started to realize I didn’t have the connection to my fans I thought I had.


It turns out that the indie game world is small, and everyone seems connected to each other. Notch quitting Minecraft, Zoe Quin, Kotaku articles, indie movies, Fez and Phil Fish. That the real meaning behind #Gamergate, and why so many strange conspiracy theories are also flying around. Part of the whole deal is unraveling new conspiracy theories that tie everything together (aka: saying random crap and assuming its true).

It doesn't help that Reddit moderators were censoring the conversation at various points.

http://i.imgur.com/0ZAaahT.png

Watching censorship happen live on Reddit (while those said moderators were bragging about censoring the conversation on Twitter) only fed the controversy, as "Quinspiracy" turned into #Gamergate.

So a large subset of gamers feel that the system is "out to get them". They no longer trust Reddit (specifically /v/) as a place of discussion, and are looking for a new home. PC Master Race reddit is a place many moved to. So we've got a large migration of rowdy internet users (much like Luesers migration years ago), combined with Phil Fish hate, oversensitive moderators censoring everything, twitter posts connecting all parties together... and now Anita Sarkeesian is charging up the whole thing with feminism talk.

Anita Sarkeesian of course isn't responsible for censorship on Reddit, but she's connected herself to the moderators who are censoring discussion on the issue. Similarly, not every #Gamergate follower is a misogynistic jackass, but you've got nutjobs calling in death threats and massacre threats. But the "Us vs Them" viewpoint is just making the drama worse and worse.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Xeio » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:13 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:PC Master Race reddit is a place many moved to.
Ah, so there's no hope then.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:22 pm UTC

Zcorp wrote:It didn't start with slut shaming, when you state that it does it suggests you know little about the truth of this whole messes origin, which considering you seem to be proud of not being fair, objective or reasonable is...sad.

Even the most flattering documentations of the gamergate event start off with discussion of the ex-boyfriend's quintessentially slut-shaming post.

This started not because Quinn's ex hates promiscuous women but because he claims she betrayed him. Being angry at and hurt by someone who betrays you is no where close to hating them because they enjoy casual sex with various partners.

He accuses her of sleeping around. He focuses on her sexual behavior, rather than the dishonesty. The fact that the main target of the "movement" is to criticize Quinn rather than the supposedly corrupt journalist exposes the movement as fundamentally slut-shaming. The gamergate culture that popped up in response has been almost defined by sexually objectifying Quinn, as well.

Let me also be clear that I'm not defending her Ex's decision to post their personal drama online to shame her about her betrayal, but lets at least be reasonable enough not to lie about the facts of this event.

Let's.

The corruption in game journalism and how it harms everyone that creates, consumes or potentially profits from those opinions and analysis is a very useful and meaningful discussion to have.

You can be better than this, you can choose to be part of progress toward something better rather than perpetuating the problem.

...which is what the gamergate movement should be telling itself. You don't ever see them get this upset when a company blatantly pays off a journalist for a good review, at most you see some grousing. You only see this level of hatred when a woman can tangentially be linked to whatever cause de joure is being attacked, such as Dragon Age II's combat system -- even when a ten-second examination of the facts shows that the woman is almost by definition not the cause or root of the problem -- as with the Dragon Age II debacle, and with Quinn.

This is sticking-your-head-in-the-sand bullshit, right here.

Gamers did care, but the for years the issue has been shrugged off as "meh, what can you do?", much in the same way as one might sigh in exasperation at the incompetency of politicians. It takes a catalyst to get everyone focused and active on an issue like this. Personally, I don't care much about the issue one way or another, but there are people that do, and hijacking the discussion into a meaniehead one is misguided.


BULL. SHIT.

There is nothing in the least bit misguided about hearing complaints about lack of absolute meritocracy in a luxury industry, and saying "hey, wait a sec, can we possibly discuss all the FUCKING DEATH THREATS AND HARASSMENT" going on? When I read an obviously biased game review, I don't have to change addresses in fear of my life. Fuck this noise.

Phil Fish gets a hate-mob against him (I'm going to ignore THAT controversy for now). He eventually quits making video games due to the death threats. Death Threats / hate talk naturally flows to Zoe Quinn, as #Gamergate uncovers an alleged connection between the two. Anita Sarkeesian believes the whole issue is about Feminism, but completely ignores the history as she rushes to defend Zoe Quinn, one of the few female game developers in the industry.

Again, BS. If the feminism angle can even be called derailment, it is absolutely necessary derailment. You don't solve unnecessary increases in car prices by saying "well let's just bring back slavery", and if a movement developed advocating that you did, it's damn well time to stop the discussion and talk about that instead.

Yes, there absolutely is corruption in the gaming media. Yes, it's a problem that should eventually be solved. But treating the misogyny as a "distraction" is absolutely wrongheaded.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:57 pm UTC

Yes, there absolutely is corruption in the gaming media. Yes, it's a problem that should eventually be solved. But treating the misogyny as a "distraction" is absolutely wrongheaded.


To be clear, I'm not defending it. I'm simply telling you the history of it... as far as I understand it.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:12 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:
Gamers did care, but the for years the issue has been shrugged off as "meh, what can you do?", much in the same way as one might sigh in exasperation at the incompetency of politicians. It takes a catalyst to get everyone focused and active on an issue like this. Personally, I don't care much about the issue one way or another, but there are people that do, and hijacking the discussion into a meaniehead one is misguided.


BULL. SHIT.

There is nothing in the least bit misguided about hearing complaints about lack of absolute meritocracy in a luxury industry, and saying "hey, wait a sec, can we possibly discuss all the FUCKING DEATH THREATS AND HARASSMENT" going on? When I read an obviously biased game review, I don't have to change addresses in fear of my life. Fuck this noise.


Again...welcome to the internet. If you're popular online and the slightest bit controversial, the death/other physical harm threats roll in. I've gotten bucketloads. I know...fairly obscure bloggers that get pretty reasonable amounts.

In certain parts of the internet especially(youtube comments, fer instance), the level of discussion is invariably crap. Should this be a thing? Nah. But shock and outrage as if it were new or unusual really is frigging odd.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:27 pm UTC

Im under no illusions that it is new or unusual (its happened to me, including one of the people calling my dads supervisors to try and get him fired). Im also under no illusion that it is "bark and no bite" (see above), and i have no problem with the discussion changing with "holdup, our culture's tendency to inflict violence is a bigger problem than our toys (allegedly) getting unfair reviews that we dont heed anyway".
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby jareds » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:37 am UTC

And so, like a coal-mine fire, GamerGate reaches the xkcd forums.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Vahir » Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:51 am UTC

jareds wrote:And so, like a coal-mine fire, GamerGate reaches the xkcd forums.


Ebola might be a more appropriate metaphor.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby jareds » Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:03 am UTC

An Ebola epidemic would die out quicker.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:09 am UTC

Vahir wrote:
jareds wrote:And so, like a coal-mine fire, GamerGate reaches the xkcd forums.


Ebola might be a more appropriate metaphor.

Vahir wrote:
jareds wrote:And so, like a coal-mine fire, GamerGate reaches the xkcd forums.


Ebola might be a more appropriate metaphor.


What the Fuck is That?
OK! What ever that shit is....

Your disease metaphor is a good one.
Contain That Shit!

If the Darker Side is now The Darker Side of GamerGate,
Then that is ok. It can be Quarantined here.

If it shows up AnyWhere outside a Quarantined and Labeled Space.

KILL IT!
KILL IT!

Use a fucking Computer to KILL IT!
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Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
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Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:19 pm UTC

So apparently the consensus among MRAs is that the threat was actually a feminist false flag operation.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:52 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:So apparently the consensus among MRAs is that the threat was actually a feminist false flag operation.


I am unsurprised. That's a staple explanation among conspiracy sorts.

I mean, it could actually be a bogus threat. Those do happen. But...actual evidence of that would be good, and I somehow doubt they waited for that.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:02 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Thesh wrote:So apparently the consensus among MRAs is that the threat was actually a feminist false flag operation.


I am unsurprised. That's a staple explanation among conspiracy sorts.

I mean, it could actually be a bogus threat. Those do happen. But...actual evidence of that would be good, and I somehow doubt they waited for that.

Jesus. How do you support that kind of cognitive dissonance?

"I'm not a misogynist, I just think that any time a woman reports that she's recieved threats, she must be a liar because no one would ever think ill of a woman."

I...I just...jesus. Fuck, MRAs, just, how does your brain do that?
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

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Vahir
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Vahir » Thu Oct 16, 2014 10:02 pm UTC

KrytenKoro wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Thesh wrote:So apparently the consensus among MRAs is that the threat was actually a feminist false flag operation.


I am unsurprised. That's a staple explanation among conspiracy sorts.

I mean, it could actually be a bogus threat. Those do happen. But...actual evidence of that would be good, and I somehow doubt they waited for that.

Jesus. How do you support that kind of cognitive dissonance?

"I'm not a misogynist, I just think that any time a woman reports that she's recieved threats, she must be a liar because no one would ever think ill of a woman."

I...I just...jesus. Fuck, MRAs, just, how does your brain do that?


When you dislike a public figure, you're ready to believe just about any wrongdoing on their part. Anything to confirm your confirmation bias, really; They probably don't have the thought process you just detailed. Instead, you'd have a few trolls/idiots who hear about this and start spouting off about how it's all a plot, and everybody who doesn't like Anita hears about it and thinks "Yeah, that sounds like something she'd do". Not "All women are liars", but rather "I don't like her ergo she's lying".

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addams
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:19 am UTC

Vahir wrote:
When you dislike a public figure, you're ready to believe just about any wrongdoing on their part. Anything to confirm your confirmation bias, really; They probably don't have the thought process you just detailed. Instead, you'd have a few trolls/idiots who hear about this and start spouting off about how it's all a plot, and everybody who doesn't like Some Name hears about it and thinks "Yeah, that sounds like something she'd do". Not "All women are liars", but rather "I don't like her ergo she's lying".

That is true.
What do you think is going on with People?

The human can Hate with Violent Passion a person they have never met and never will.

An enemy half a world away.
Some Media ScapeGoat.
A Friend of a Friend's sister.

We lack emotional opportunities, at home?
We do not dare express our true fucked up nature in Real Life, at home?

Like the Characters in Old Fairy Tails.
The Media makes Heroes and Monsters for us to Admire and Hate.

Only....Some of those people the Media and Facebook destroy are Real and Undeserving the Grief.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

KrytenKoro
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:16 am UTC

This should be on interesting read for anyone claiming gg didnt start with/isnt focused on harassing zoe: https://mobile.twitter.com/EffNOVideoGames
https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/sto ... een-a-spin
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

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Thesh
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:11 am UTC

So I hadn't really been following this, but apparently this is about supposed to be about ethics in journalsim? I guess they are saying any article that suggests that games be less sexist are biased and therefore should not be allowed to be published? Well, I hate to break it to them, but all journalists are biased. Seriously, find me one article on ISIL from a major news outlet that says anything along the lines of "It's possible that they are right, and that the people should be forced to convert to their sect of Islam, and anyone who doesn't should be executed as an infidel."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/game ... ournalism/
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

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addams
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:06 am UTC

That Link was Link laden.
It was very enlightening.
Thank you, Thesh.

GamerGaters seem to be a bit problematic.
The parallels between the Tea Baggers and the GamerGaters was interesting.

From the article.
It's a fascinating glimpse of the future of grievance politics as they will be carried out by people who grew up online.


Grievance Politics...
GamerGaters and Tea Baggers.

The GamerGaters must feel empowered.
They can control a huge company like Intel, without shouldering any responsibility.
The Tea Baggers must feel the same way about the United States Government.

They brought it Down.
And; Use a US Flag to gag her with.

Spoiler:
I could give a shit about the Idiots that play KILL! KIlL! Kill!
But, I don't.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

leady
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby leady » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:50 am UTC

Thesh wrote:So I hadn't really been following this, but apparently this is about supposed to be about ethics in journalsim? I guess they are saying any article that suggests that games be less sexist are biased and therefore should not be allowed to be published?


I've listened to all the IA stuff on youtube and I don't really get it (IA is always funny though). The idea that publishers are going to do anything but pay lip service to social justice issues in games is a bit nuts. Businesses make products for their customers and those customers are 80% male between the ages of 13 - 40 who like a high level of male power fantasy. It was only a couple of months ago that there was a debate on here about the male focus of movies where the demographic was pretty 50 - 50 and they haven't changed one bit despite a lot of wingeing.

Tyndmyr
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:39 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:So I hadn't really been following this, but apparently this is about supposed to be about ethics in journalsim? I guess they are saying any article that suggests that games be less sexist are biased and therefore should not be allowed to be published? Well, I hate to break it to them, but all journalists are biased. Seriously, find me one article on ISIL from a major news outlet that says anything along the lines of "It's possible that they are right, and that the people should be forced to convert to their sect of Islam, and anyone who doesn't should be executed as an infidel."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/game ... ournalism/


In fairness, game journalism IS filled with crap. This isn't new, though. Game magazines have long been known to be advertiser dependent and what not, and the scores they give out tend to be...generous. Especially to advertisers. That's pretty well known, and long has been. Also, about unrealistic depictions of women in games...like, cmon. People can't be just discovering Tomb Raider now, can they?

Also...I don't think that your latter example is a good example of journalists being biased. In general, as a journalist, you should be reporting what happened, not demanding that something be done. The latter is activism, not journalism.

KrytenKoro
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:06 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Thesh wrote:So I hadn't really been following this, but apparently this is about supposed to be about ethics in journalsim? I guess they are saying any article that suggests that games be less sexist are biased and therefore should not be allowed to be published? Well, I hate to break it to them, but all journalists are biased. Seriously, find me one article on ISIL from a major news outlet that says anything along the lines of "It's possible that they are right, and that the people should be forced to convert to their sect of Islam, and anyone who doesn't should be executed as an infidel."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/game ... ournalism/


In fairness, game journalism IS filled with crap. This isn't new, though. Game magazines have long been known to be advertiser dependent and what not, and the scores they give out tend to be...generous. Especially to advertisers. That's pretty well known, and long has been. Also, about unrealistic depictions of women in games...like, cmon. People can't be just discovering Tomb Raider now, can they?

Also...I don't think that your latter example is a good example of journalists being biased. In general, as a journalist, you should be reporting what happened, not demanding that something be done. The latter is activism, not journalism.

Eh, that's kind of an ideal that is not clear has ever really been followed. Fourth Estate and all that.
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

Tyndmyr
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:34 pm UTC

Yeah but, we expect at least a pretense of that. When "news" strays into intentional advocacy at the expense of reporting, well...there's a reason people bash on fox and such.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:07 pm UTC

#GamerGate is just another internet flash pan. I've seen them before, on far more despicable grounds. Trolls have found the next target to cause false controversy, something that somehow strikes into the hearts of many. A large subset of netizens are trolls. They find entertainment and lavish when internet controversies pop up, and they are further rewarded when they see their behaviors entering the "real world".

The typical "hardcore gamer" doesn't know anything about #Gamergate. I've asked around, they're too busy... playing games... mastering combos or beating RPGs to really care. Its more about Kotaku, certain subreddits and various media outlets who seem to be getting caught in all of this.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.


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