The Darker Side of the News

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10499
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:29 pm UTC

The only way to beat the euphemism treadmill is to not get on it. The word is prostitute. The others are slang or euphemisms, and as soon as "sex worker" gets a nasty reputation it's on to the next one. Sorry, no, I'm not going to replace my lexicon every decade when "sex worker" is replaced with "fornication provider", only to be exchanged with "mating professional" or "pleasuremeister"... Dibs on the band name!

User avatar
natraj
Posts: 1895
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm UTC
Location: away from Omelas

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby natraj » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:34 pm UTC

@Tyndmyr yes, i am aware what terminology is used by the very same people who are criminalizing and dehumanizing us. i am informing you that sex workers themselves (of which i am one) consider the terminology degrading and a slur, and politely requested that it not be used. even if a slur is used "cheerfully" it is still a slur and still hurtful. i do appreciate your polite response, though. corruptuser... not so much.
You want to know the future, love? Then wait:
I'll answer your impatient questions. Still --
They'll call it chance, or luck, or call it Fate,
The cards and stars that tumble as they will.

pronouns: they or he

User avatar
PeteP
What the peck?
Posts: 1451
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:51 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby PeteP » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:05 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
PeteP wrote:It is not reasonable to assume him just taking the route means he hired a prostitute at least if it isn't out of his way.


Indeed, so the police are being unreasonable.

You're expecting folks to somehow know the police are unreasonable and compensate for that. That seems...a wee bit unfair.

I assume that the message contains the reason the message was written (that they were in street X). If it doesn't it would be a bit much to expect sure.

natraj wrote:"hooker" and "prostitute" are both slurs; is it okay if we do not use that language to talk about sex workers? (i realize that the media uses that language to talk about sex workers, but the media is not a great source for anything about sex workers as they also pretty consistently degrade and dehumanize us in so very many ways.)

kay

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3989
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Dauric » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:30 pm UTC

PeteP wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
PeteP wrote:It is not reasonable to assume him just taking the route means he hired a prostitute at least if it isn't out of his way.


Indeed, so the police are being unreasonable.

You're expecting folks to somehow know the police are unreasonable and compensate for that. That seems...a wee bit unfair.

I assume that the message contains the reason the message was written (that they were in street X). If it doesn't it would be a bit much to expect sure.


Doesn't matter if the reason the message was sent is in the letter or not. "The City Government felt a need to inform you Citizen that you've been seen in a location known for the buying and selling of sexual services." The fact that The Government sent the notification implies a suspicion of wrongdoing. "Appeal to Authority" may be a logical fallacy, but it's an effective one.

Hypothetical: A Teacher has to drive across town for some reason, getting lost because of road construction and ending up unwittingly driving through one of these neighborhoods (it's not like they're labeled with street signs). Next time they have to pass their background check this letter from the city comes up with a vague insinuation that the teacher was paying for sex. Does the school board keep the teacher on and if the existence of the letter gets out to the public* will they support the teacher in keeping their job, or would you suspect a school district to be lawsuit-shy about parents getting up in arms about one of their children's instructors being a moral degenerate and quietly dismissing the teacher from their position?

*note that the intent of the letter is that it ends up in the hands of someone other than the stated recipient.

And this doesn't even get to the issues of positively identifying the driver before making thinly veiled accusations, the city is accusing whoever the car is registered to of looking to buy sex whether they're in the car or not.

Again, the problem is an institute of authority is the one making the accusation, and simply being in authority gives them credibility beyond what they do or don't explicitly say in the letter, whether they deserve it or not. It's that credibility that can be taken seriously by employers, or even law enforcement for that matter.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:52 pm UTC

natraj wrote:@Tyndmyr yes, i am aware what terminology is used by the very same people who are criminalizing and dehumanizing us. i am informing you that sex workers themselves (of which i am one) consider the terminology degrading and a slur, and politely requested that it not be used. even if a slur is used "cheerfully" it is still a slur and still hurtful. i do appreciate your polite response, though. corruptuser... not so much.


I'm aware that it can be used as a slur, but it is rather difficult to accurately report the event if one cannot even use the headline, legal terminology, or actual words said in government debate.

What corruptuser is referring to is that making a word verboten cannot actually solve the issue...the attitudes behind this persist, and are remarkably pervasive regardless of the particular word used. I agree that these perjorative attitudes are a problem, but refusing to utter particular words only adds to the social barrier here. Look at this particular case...it's so messed up specifically because of negative social attitudes here. Perhaps, as others have said, if everyone were perfectly logical and reasonable, such a letter would have no effect. But, of course, that isn't realistic. The letter's power resides entirely in channeling social disapproval, and that's it's intent.

Even for slurs, intent and context matter. Parodying the self-righteous attitudes of those who mock others is different from engaging in the mocking. A problem that cannot be talked about is one you can never fix.

PeteP wrote:I assume that the message contains the reason the message was written (that they were in street X). If it doesn't it would be a bit much to expect sure.


There is indeed a big ol' database keeping logs on your comings and goings down to exact place and time. This, too, is a matter for concern. Some folks aren't happy about that, public or not.

The whole thing manages to wrap nanny government overtones and beaucratic incompetence into one package, really.

User avatar
natraj
Posts: 1895
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm UTC
Location: away from Omelas

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby natraj » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:00 pm UTC

there is an enormous difference between actually quoting a headline or the direct language of a bill, e.g., and continuing to talk about "hiring prostitutes" when you are simply discussing the situation and could very well just as easily use other language. dauric somehow managed to make an entire post talking about this exact situation without using a slur in the entire post! i am quite certain that other people can do the same. it is quite disingenuous to pretend that it is necessary to use slurs to talk about sex workers and the sex industry just because other people do so. you can talk about sex workers and buying/selling sexual services without calling sex workers prostitutes very easily.
You want to know the future, love? Then wait:
I'll answer your impatient questions. Still --
They'll call it chance, or luck, or call it Fate,
The cards and stars that tumble as they will.

pronouns: they or he

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6802
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:15 pm UTC

I take issue with Tyndmyrs slurs against the government nanny state overtones. Not everything the government wants you to stop doing is the government nannying you.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:18 pm UTC

See also, the parody part of my post.

I'm not seeking to use these terms in order to insult you, they were used to highlight particular problems of attitude. I am pretty clearly not endorsing anything about this bill or the attitudes behind it. I am, however, talking about it, and I do not mind using their terms to mock them.

Yes, Dauric made a post without using the word "prostitution". However, in doing so, he also used the more palatable euphemism in his description of the letter, something that undersells the actual phrasing and impact of the letter.

In short, talking about this without mentioning the actual words used makes their ridiculous actions seem more moderate and acceptable, and this does not serve my ends, so I have no interest in entirely avoiding descriptive words.

I take issue with Tyndmyrs slurs against the government nanny state overtones. Not everything the government wants you to stop doing is the government nannying you.


Everything, nah. But this definitely seems like wildly overprotective people worried about the moral ruin of society or some crap. Very nanny-ish.

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby morriswalters » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:43 pm UTC

Here is a report that touches on the issue from 2012.(see page 53 or there about) Turns out that it isn't truly new. And it would be perfectly legal for anyone in a neighborhood to to take pictures and publish them online. I do find it interesting that the customers are getting the nod rather than the sex workers. And here is a creepy story about someone who used a drone to catch someone in the act.
Tyndmyr wrote:Everything, nah. But this definitely seems like wildly overprotective people worried about the moral ruin of society or some crap. Very nanny-ish.
This isn't a federal issue, this is about as local as it gets. This is more like the "nanny" city council rather than nanny state, so to speak. People love to be busy bodies.

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Diadem » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:49 pm UTC

natraj wrote:"hooker" and "prostitute" are both slurs; is it okay if we do not use that language to talk about sex workers?

I have to admit that this is literally the first time in my life that I hear the word 'prostitute' described as a slur. Is this really a common opinion among sex workers?

Also, what other term would you prefer? I can't really think of another term that is not a slur. 'Sex worker' is often used. But that is a much broader category. Often that's fine, but sometimes you want to be precise. I can't think of a good alternative to prostitute.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

Mutex
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mutex » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:18 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:'Sex worker' is often used. But that is a much broader category.


Is it? What else does it cover? I thought it just meant what people mean when they say prostitute.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:25 pm UTC

Ah, the "nanny state" tends to be a pretty general perjorative, it doesn't necessarily mean just federal. The insult is in the nannying, not in the level of government.

Mutex wrote:
Diadem wrote:'Sex worker' is often used. But that is a much broader category.


Is it? What else does it cover? I thought it just meant what people mean when they say prostitute.


It covers, for instance, sexual therapy and the like. Which is sometimes legal where prostitution is not. The distinctions can be fine, sometimes, and often boils down to the former being somehow at least vaguely medical or theraputic or whatever, while the latter is entertainment, which, for sex, is of course horrible.

I can't help but wonder if googling these would result in someone sending me a letter.

User avatar
natraj
Posts: 1895
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 10:13 pm UTC
Location: away from Omelas

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby natraj » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:27 pm UTC

'sex worker' covers anyone who sells their own sexual labor -- i.e., stripper, cam workers, porn performers, phone sex operators, etc. if you specifically need to only talk about someone who trades sex (for money or other things) you can say full-service sex worker; if you specifically need to talk about someone who does so by soliciting in person (often from the street) as opposed to posting ads online or through an agency, street-based sex worker is fine. although i'm pretty sure in the context of this discussion people can figure out just fine that you are talking about sex workers who are full-service and working from the street if you just say sex worker, but there are context where it is probably necessary to be specific for clarity.
You want to know the future, love? Then wait:
I'll answer your impatient questions. Still --
They'll call it chance, or luck, or call it Fate,
The cards and stars that tumble as they will.

pronouns: they or he

User avatar
Diadem
Posts: 5654
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:03 am UTC
Location: The Netherlands

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Diadem » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:25 pm UTC

full-service sex worker? You can't be serious?

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you here over the word 'prostitute' being offensive. The word is commonly used in legal and political discussions and, more importantly, by sex workers themselves. I happen to follow two English-language blogs by (former) sex workers, and both happily use the word all the time. I looked up about a dozen other blogs by sex workers, and all of them also use the word without a care. I don't doubt your sincerity when you say you find it offensive, but you seem to be part of a very small minority even among sex workers. That doesn't mean you're wrong, language is subjective after all, but well, when it comes to language you have to confirm to the greatest common divisor, otherwise there'll be no words left to use.
It's one of those irregular verbs, isn't it? I have an independent mind, you are an eccentric, he is round the twist
- Bernard Woolley in Yes, Prime Minister

User avatar
Isaac Hill
Systems Analyst????
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:35 pm UTC
Location: Middletown, RI

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Isaac Hill » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:55 am UTC

Tyndmyr's link wrote:I’d add one more awful consequence to this policy: It’s essentially stating that there are some neighborhoods where a person’s mere presence is indicative of criminal activity — that the only reason one would visit these areas is to solicit sex for money. Think about what that says to the people who live and work in those areas. It’s also a pretty surefire way to prevent these neighborhoods from ever improving. Why would anyone travel to or through an area designated a “prostitution zone” to, say, offer job training, counseling, medical care or other services if doing so means their name winds up in a database of suspected johns?
That echoes one of my first thoughts when I read Tyndmyr's summary. What about other businesses in those areas? It's going to be hard to build a clientele when anyone who goes to your place of business risks a letter sent to their house accusing them of a crime.

I used to stop by an educational toy store in my town every so often. They moved a few years ago because another location in the same building was a brothel. I didn't know the brothel was there until I looked up the toy store on-line to see if they were closed for good or just renovating.

I go see a lot of local bands who'll play whatever dive bar will have them. That means I do quite a bit of driving to towns (or parts of towns) I've never been to before. I don't know what else is in the neighborhood.

Or maybe you're new in town or on vacation and want to go exploring. There's also the people who lives in those areas. Are they going to get accusatory letters for driving down their own street?

natraj wrote:'sex worker' covers anyone who sells their own sexual labor -- i.e., stripper...
Don't you mean exotic dancer?
Alleged "poems"
that don't follow a rhyme scheme
are not poetry


User avatar
Coyne
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:07 am UTC
Location: Orlando, Florida
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Coyne » Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:35 am UTC

Aside from all the people who wandered into such a zone by accident, including tourists: one thing I see ignored in all of this is the people that legitimately need to be in such areas, such as:

  • Employees of legitimate businesses; and the customers of the same
  • Pizza delivery drivers (who often use their own cars); other food delivery
  • Construction workers; repairmen
  • Social workers
  • Child services
  • School teachers
  • Habitat for Humanity--seriously. I donated work on a home that was in a neighborhood that probably qualified for listing
  • etc.
  • Oh, and any people who live there who actually aren't sex workers

In addition to the other problems already well-discussed, this looks to me like an attempt to squeeze all life out of the designated areas; an attempt to convert those areas to black/dead zones; where no services are available.

Unless, of course, the individuals in some of those categories are exempt, in which case we raise the ugly concept of classism. Which I think is likely anyway: suppose the mayor were to take his personal car down there...think they'd send him a letter?

For death knell, how about the fact that Hollywood & Vine (yes, dammit, I know that's in Beverly Hills...consider it an example) should be designated as such an area: think that might cause any tourism problems? (I was there, so if they listed that, I'm pretty sure I'd be getting one of those letters if I made exactly the same trip now.) So it won't be on the list, which means another classism enters: some areas that should be listed won't, because, "Mustn't embarrass the tourists." So "your" area gets listed only if (a) it's not "important" and (b) we don't like it...a huge invitation to class abuse.

Then there's the inevitable designations, that will follow, for high crime neighborhoods, drug availability neighborhoods, gang (black and Hispanic) neighborhoods, depressed (slum) neighborhoods...and so on. And the upper class neighborhoods. I can't find it now, but an upper class community here in Florida discussed installing readers and sending a letter to the riff-raff who passed through (3 times or more, I think) that didn't live there, warning them to find a different route.

Seems to me that, all things considered, this type of thing ranks as one of the worst--most un-American--conceptions ever.
In all fairness...

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby morriswalters » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:28 pm UTC

It was only a matter of time. Fortunately not connected to a license based data source at this point.
We now live in a world where if you have an IP-enabled security camera, you can download some free, open-source software from GitHub and boom—you have a fully functional automated license plate reader (ALPR, or LPR).

HungryHobo
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:01 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby HungryHobo » Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:57 am UTC

natraj wrote:...


is this just like yourself and like 3 other people on a blog ?

Because i'm going to second this literally being the first time I've ever heard anyone imply that "full service sex workers" consider "prostitute" a slur, hell it's also the first instance of the term "full service sex workers".

did the people who chose it specifically choose it for being the most weird and stilted, un-descriptive term possible? (and thus one which nobody will actually use)

After some searching I conclude that this really is just youself and like the most tiny subculture.
On the entirety of the internet the term is used a grand total of 375 times across about 90 sites, a large fraction of them being tumblers .

When you say
i am informing you that sex workers themselves (of which i am one) consider the terminology degrading and a slur


you appear to actually only be talking for a few dozen people out of millions working in the worlds oldest profession.

Since I know it bothers you personally I'll try to use the term on this forum but be aware that you're really really not representing sex workers in general on this score.
Give a man a fish, he owes you one fish. Teach a man to fish, you give up your monopoly on fisheries.

commodorejohn
Posts: 1182
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:21 pm UTC
Location: Placerville, CA
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby commodorejohn » Sun Dec 06, 2015 3:49 pm UTC

It conjures up some interesting 1950s-gas-station imagery, though.
"'Legacy code' often differs from its suggested alternative by actually working and scaling."
- Bjarne Stroustrup
www.commodorejohn.com - in case you were wondering, which you probably weren't.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Dec 07, 2015 4:07 pm UTC

Isaac Hill wrote:
Tyndmyr's link wrote:I’d add one more awful consequence to this policy: It’s essentially stating that there are some neighborhoods where a person’s mere presence is indicative of criminal activity — that the only reason one would visit these areas is to solicit sex for money. Think about what that says to the people who live and work in those areas. It’s also a pretty surefire way to prevent these neighborhoods from ever improving. Why would anyone travel to or through an area designated a “prostitution zone” to, say, offer job training, counseling, medical care or other services if doing so means their name winds up in a database of suspected johns?
That echoes one of my first thoughts when I read Tyndmyr's summary. What about other businesses in those areas? It's going to be hard to build a clientele when anyone who goes to your place of business risks a letter sent to their house accusing them of a crime.

I used to stop by an educational toy store in my town every so often. They moved a few years ago because another location in the same building was a brothel. I didn't know the brothel was there until I looked up the toy store on-line to see if they were closed for good or just renovating.


It's a common issue with businesses. You don't necessarily have a lot of control over what businesses are close to you, but there's definitely a perception issue for certain businesses. Making that more overt could have some interesting social effects(mostly awful). If you enjoy dystopian fiction, such a terrible zone usually exists, where there's a very definite "everyone here is shady/awful" feel.

morriswalters wrote:It was only a matter of time. Fortunately not connected to a license based data source at this point.
We now live in a world where if you have an IP-enabled security camera, you can download some free, open-source software from GitHub and boom—you have a fully functional automated license plate reader (ALPR, or LPR).


Huh. So, we're a couple of jumps from a tech savvy church being able to do this as well. Interesting. The legal battles of the future should be fascinating to watch.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:37 pm UTC

Muslim who protested outside Parliment with "do you trust me enough for a hug" sign now faces jail for bomb threats.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3349803/Muslim-convert-faces-jail-threatening-bomb-MP-s-house.html

User avatar
Grop
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:36 am UTC
Location: France

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Grop » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:43 pm UTC

This article suggests these charges are unrelated to that protestation. Well except for the part where they mention it at all.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:44 pm UTC

Indeed. But still, sort of undercuts the message.


Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:04 pm UTC



Truly a sad day. Having decided there was nothing left for me on television, I now have no cable/dsl/etc at all, having *just* completed my swap to using cell tethering for everything.

And now they come out with this delight.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6802
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:39 pm UTC

Are you sarcastic or do you really need a TV lady selling you overpriced novelty guns? Like I'm a minor computer freak, but you don't see me clamoring for a 24 hr channel to sell me computers. There's much better ways to find the slickest deals or best stuff.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:54 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Are you sarcastic or do you really need a TV lady selling you overpriced novelty guns? Like I'm a minor computer freak, but you don't see me clamoring for a 24 hr channel to sell me computers. There's much better ways to find the slickest deals or best stuff.


Better than 90% of what's on TV now.

And seriously, thanks to legislation, most firearm sales are stuck in the distant past. Sales logs with pen and paper sort of crap. Finding more ways to drag the industry kicking and screaming into the somewhat less distant past is a plus.

I mean, I'd prefer if I could just order firearms as conveniently as I could computers offa newegg, but here we are.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 6802
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:30 pm UTC

What about those private sales facilitated by a marketplace like eBay ish or Craigslist ish type stuff?
And you can't just blame the law when it was theb pro gun movement that forbade any upgrades to tracking of guns.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:14 pm UTC

sardia wrote:What about those private sales facilitated by a marketplace like eBay ish or Craigslist ish type stuff?
And you can't just blame the law when it was theb pro gun movement that forbade any upgrades to tracking of guns.


Those are just advertising. You still have to conduct the actual sale in person. And can't ship it by mail. So, you have to actually go to a physical location to exchange money for goods and services as if we were in the stone age.

Which still sort of exists in this, because you have to go to a local gun store. At least it's local, but...I can order damned near anything else in the world and have it show up in a box at my door in short order. This still ain't to that level yet. It's just...working on catching up with home shopping network stuff from ages past.

As for tracking, yeah, no. At no time was the other side ever offering "order guns from your couch" as an option. They wanted more tracking, yes. In return they offered....nothing, really. So yeah, kind of obvious that pro-gun people oppose that.

KnightExemplar
Posts: 5494
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:58 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:34 pm UTC

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20151 ... osque.html

As anti-Muslim Rhetoric grows in America, we can expect anti-Muslim actions like this to grow unfortunately. Its hard enough to explain to my family members the difference between Sunni, Shia, Wahabbi Muslims and such (and often I have to remind them about the Muslims that are related to us by blood). I'm not a Muslim, but America is supposed to be a country of religious tolerance.

While Trump's latest gaff has officially lost him support across the media (as usual...), I'm finding that a lot of people are unfortunately supporting his latest proposal to ban Muslims travel to the US.
First Strike +1/+1 and Indestructible.

User avatar
krogoth
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby krogoth » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:56 pm UTC

America still has a gun death rate of like 10.64 per 100k, two thirds of is suicide.(that last 3rd is still more than any 1st world countries total deaths). At least regulating for mental health can't be a bad idea. I've no idea why Americans have such a hard on for guns :/

They wanted more tracking, yes. In return they offered....nothing,


I would say the implied offer is more safety.

It's hilarious to me that there would need to be Paris sized attack each week to come close to equal to the number of homicides caused by Americans. It's almost like some sort of Paranoia complex, "everyone's out to get us" then the news incites the public, the politicians feed on the ignorant backlash against people who aren't even as good at killing you as you are at killing yourself, and you end up with politicians, who think its right to just go out starting fight's spreading more hate(trump). It really is a vicious cycle.

If someone gets voted in from the GOP I don't think even if their god existed he could save you.
R3sistance - I don't care at all for the ignorance spreading done by many and to the best of my abilities I try to correct this as much as I can, but I know and understand that even I can not be completely honest, truthful and factual all of the time.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:58 pm UTC

Open Carry group to stage a mass shooting at the University of Texas 'to prove a point'.

... I... what.

The Open Carry Walk and Crisis Performance Event will involve actors “shot” by perpetrators armed with cardboard weapons, said Matthew Short, a spokesman for the gun rights groups Come and Take It Texas and DontComply.com. “It’s a fake mass shooting, and we’ll use fake blood,” he said.

User avatar
Mighty Jalapeno
Inne Juste 7 Dayes I Wille Make You A Hero!
Posts: 11265
Joined: Mon May 07, 2007 9:16 pm UTC
Location: Prince George In A Can
Contact:

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:01 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:America still has a gun death rate of like 10.64 per 100k, two thirds of is suicide.(that last 3rd is still more than any 1st world countries total deaths). At least regulating for mental health can't be a bad idea. I've no idea why Americans have such a hard on for guns :/

I had to explain this to my kids recently, that America was FOUNDED on the principle of "you're gonna push me around? I got mah guns." England tried to impose some long-range order? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Those uppity Northerners / those wealthy Southerners wanna take over? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Mexicans attacking from the south? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Canada attacking from the north? Nope, we'll shoot you (and rebuild our White House bigger and whiter than before!) Their national anthem involves war, rockets and bombs. Their cultural identity is now and apparently forever tied to being a one-person crusading army against injustice (whatever injustice they perceive to be inconveniencing them at that particular moment). The only reason they as a nation EXIST is because Forefathers, well-regulated militia, bear arms, guns, guns, guns.

And Canada exists because of immigrants and almost wiping out the beaver.

It's still hard for them to grasp.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3989
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Dauric » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:11 am UTC

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Open Carry group to stage a mass shooting at the University of Texas 'to prove a point'.

... I... what.

The Open Carry Walk and Crisis Performance Event will involve actors “shot” by perpetrators armed with cardboard weapons, said Matthew Short, a spokesman for the gun rights groups Come and Take It Texas and DontComply.com. “It’s a fake mass shooting, and we’ll use fake blood,” he said.


... The point has perished from apparent gunfire.

I just want to see real cops respond to 911 calls from this fake shooting.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
Grop
Posts: 1994
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:36 am UTC
Location: France

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Grop » Thu Dec 10, 2015 12:55 am UTC

Dauric wrote:I just want to see real cops respond to 911 calls from this fake shooting.


That would be too dangerousif they had to face armed white men.

morriswalters
Posts: 7073
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby morriswalters » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:36 am UTC

Grop wrote:That would be too dangerousif they had to face armed white men.
We've already seen this it was called Waco. :cry:

User avatar
krogoth
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:58 pm UTC
Location: Australia

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby krogoth » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:42 am UTC

Dauric wrote:
Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Open Carry group to stage a mass shooting at the University of Texas 'to prove a point'.

... I... what.

The Open Carry Walk and Crisis Performance Event will involve actors “shot” by perpetrators armed with cardboard weapons, said Matthew Short, a spokesman for the gun rights groups Come and Take It Texas and DontComply.com. “It’s a fake mass shooting, and we’ll use fake blood,” he said.


... The point has perished from apparent gunfire.

I just want to see real cops respond to 911 calls from this fake shooting.

Would this count as a darwan award worthy? Suicide?
This is why some pranks are dangerous.
This is why mental health checks aren't a bad idea, there is NO way a gun owner should even consider this a good idea.
R3sistance - I don't care at all for the ignorance spreading done by many and to the best of my abilities I try to correct this as much as I can, but I know and understand that even I can not be completely honest, truthful and factual all of the time.

KrytenKoro
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:58 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby KrytenKoro » Thu Dec 10, 2015 2:30 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:Would this count as a darwan award worthy? Suicide?
This is why some pranks are dangerous.
This is why mental health checks aren't a bad idea, there is NO way a gun owner should even consider this a good idea.

Abject, zealous stupidity is not a mental illness, it's an ideological failing. Please don't equate the two.
From the elegant yelling of this compelling dispute comes the ghastly suspicion my opposition's a fruit.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:18 pm UTC

krogoth wrote:
They wanted more tracking, yes. In return they offered....nothing,


I would say the implied offer is more safety.


The pro-gun crowd does not believe that less guns = more safety, so...that's really not an offer to them.

The cycle has gotten extreme, though. A third of all guns in the US have been purchased since 2008. Guns last basically forever, so the trend here is kind of intense, with new records being set so routinely as to be almost boring. Obama's a helluva gun salesman.

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:
krogoth wrote:America still has a gun death rate of like 10.64 per 100k, two thirds of is suicide.(that last 3rd is still more than any 1st world countries total deaths). At least regulating for mental health can't be a bad idea. I've no idea why Americans have such a hard on for guns :/

I had to explain this to my kids recently, that America was FOUNDED on the principle of "you're gonna push me around? I got mah guns." England tried to impose some long-range order? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Those uppity Northerners / those wealthy Southerners wanna take over? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Mexicans attacking from the south? Nope, we'll shoot ya. Canada attacking from the north? Nope, we'll shoot you (and rebuild our White House bigger and whiter than before!) Their national anthem involves war, rockets and bombs. Their cultural identity is now and apparently forever tied to being a one-person crusading army against injustice (whatever injustice they perceive to be inconveniencing them at that particular moment). The only reason they as a nation EXIST is because Forefathers, well-regulated militia, bear arms, guns, guns, guns.

And Canada exists because of immigrants and almost wiping out the beaver.

It's still hard for them to grasp.


Our day of patriotism consists of blowing shit up, too.

Well, and eating too much, but that's ALL our holidays.

Mighty Jalapeno wrote:Open Carry group to stage a mass shooting at the University of Texas 'to prove a point'.

... I... what.

The Open Carry Walk and Crisis Performance Event will involve actors “shot” by perpetrators armed with cardboard weapons, said Matthew Short, a spokesman for the gun rights groups Come and Take It Texas and DontComply.com. “It’s a fake mass shooting, and we’ll use fake blood,” he said.


This seems...unwise. For many, many reasons.

I kind of want to see this, solely out of morbid curiosity.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 9 guests