The Darker Side of the News

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DaBigCheez
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby DaBigCheez » Sat May 26, 2018 7:11 pm UTC

Seems like a lot of the "high gun ownership, low gun homicide" states are fairly rural - population more spread out, combined with higher gun ownership for purposes of hunting and the like.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Soupspoon » Sat May 26, 2018 7:27 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Can we all just pretend D.C. doesn't exist, just so I can point at a big, empty space there? Thank you.
I suggest an adjusted weighting for each state based upon the raw value for each neighbour.

(And that there population density thing, too.)

The details I leave up to you (but respective lengths of land border might be a useful start, before considering road-rich boundaries vs those that are Miles And Miles Of Nothing Between Two Massively Nothing States, etc).

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Thesh » Sat May 26, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

I'm guessing to get proper weights you are going to need to find the correlation coefficients between the homicide rate and things like population density, poverty rate, property crime, drug use, climate, etc. The details are outside of my comfort zone.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Sat May 26, 2018 9:38 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Seems like a lot of the "high gun ownership, low gun homicide" states are fairly rural - population more spread out, combined with higher gun ownership for purposes of hunting and the like.

That did occur to me with Iceland on the previous chart. It's a huge area with about the same population as Liverpool, and sometimes starving polar bears wash up on the coast. They have BIG rifles because sometimes, just sometimes, they NEED big rifles.

Idaho looks like somewhere someone could tolerate being.
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sardia
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Sat May 26, 2018 10:34 pm UTC

What happens when you combine an aging demographic with a country awash in guns? Crazy suicidal old people who can't tell friend from foe, and are heavily armed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/25/heal ... entia.html
The experts suggests a firearms trust, where you take them away when the trustee crosses a red flag, like dementia, or disability. This assumes you have friends and family who care enough to establish something for you. For the loners, we'll find out when they shoot themselves, or others.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sat May 26, 2018 10:42 pm UTC

oh, yes....
The mean old bastards, armed and determined to survive.

How did this turn into the Gun Thread?
There is a dedicated Thread for that.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby pogrmman » Sat May 26, 2018 11:49 pm UTC

sardia wrote:What happens when you combine an aging demographic with a country awash in guns? Crazy suicidal old people who can't tell friend from foe, and are heavily armed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/25/heal ... entia.html
The experts suggests a firearms trust, where you take them away when the trustee crosses a red flag, like dementia, or disability. This assumes you have friends and family who care enough to establish something for you. For the loners, we'll find out when they shoot themselves, or others.


My family took my grandfather's guns (hunting rifles plus a handgun) away when he moved into assisted living and gave them to the police department to deal with. I'm still incredibly, incredibly happy that prior to that, they were in a locked safe and my grandfather had no key (my parents took it away because of dementia).

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby ucim » Sun May 27, 2018 12:15 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:...but do have a different figure which is still useful.
Looking at that chart, I see no relationship between the two variables on the graph. A relationship would have the dots strung out along some path. But these are just all over the place. There are a few interesting outliers but no trend, as you later illustrate with Rexthor, the dog-bearer (and unrelated "data").

quoted in that post, Sableagle wrote:In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more rifles is reported to be

[...]
2004: 21.0%
[...]

In Louisiana, the percentage of households with one or more guns is reported to be

2004: 55.04%
I take it we're not supposed to notice that you're comparing households with rifles to households with guns of any sort? This kind of invalidates any conclusions that would be drawn, such as your "Somehow Louisiana's over double the average...". Because it's not.

Sableagle wrote:Can we all just pretend D.C. doesn't exist...
Maybe they just have bad aim? :)

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Sun May 27, 2018 12:35 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:
sardia wrote:What happens when you combine an aging demographic with a country awash in guns? Crazy suicidal old people who can't tell friend from foe, and are heavily armed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/25/heal ... entia.html
The experts suggests a firearms trust, where you take them away when the trustee crosses a red flag, like dementia, or disability. This assumes you have friends and family who care enough to establish something for you. For the loners, we'll find out when they shoot themselves, or others.


My family took my grandfather's guns (hunting rifles plus a handgun) away when he moved into assisted living and gave them to the police department to deal with. I'm still incredibly, incredibly happy that prior to that, they were in a locked safe and my grandfather had no key (my parents took it away because of dementia).
I'm glad for you, too. Gun Safes should be Required.
Now...As dark as this is, we have dedicated Threads for chatting about Guns.
Like most folk, I have a lot to say on the subject.
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Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Sun May 27, 2018 7:29 am UTC

ucim wrote:A relationship would have the dots strung out along some path. But these are just all over the place.
Like I said, try population density, prosperity, income inequality and the like.

ucim wrote:I take it we're not supposed to notice that you're comparing households with rifles to households with guns of any sort? This kind of invalidates any conclusions that would be drawn, such as your "Somehow Louisiana's over double the average...". Because it's not.
Ah. Too many states, too many tables that look too similar, too few spoons.

gunpolicydotnet wrote:In the United States, the percentage of households with one or more guns is reported to be

2017: 42.0%
2016: 39.0%
2015: 41.0%
2014: 31.0%
2013: 37%
2012: 33.1%
2010: 31.1%
55%'s still way above that average.

... so, how about those Afghan interpreters? Are they being thrown to the hyenas or what?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Sun May 27, 2018 7:49 pm UTC

Holy crap, Obama really did do wonders for gun ownership in the US. His most successful policy to date!

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Sun May 27, 2018 7:52 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Holy crap, Obama really did do wonders for gun ownership in the US. His most successful policy to date!

I don't think the figurehead matters in this case, any Democrat would have been painted as the antichrist of guns. The firearms industry struggles whenever there is a Republican in charge. I really dislike the lobbyists for these groups; nobody tells me what to fear, or how many guns I need to stop feeling afraid.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Sun May 27, 2018 8:05 pm UTC

Are there lobbyists from any particular group that you don't dislike?

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Mon May 28, 2018 3:47 am UTC

So...

Not sure how I feel about this one.

Tommy Robinson, one of the founding members of the English Defense League, a xenophobic and racist bunch, has been arrested and sentenced to 13 months of prison. The crime is for filming outside the courthouse where the trial for one of the sex abuse rings was occurring. A judge had ruled that the media couldn't report on his arrest.

The guy is an utter prick, but so many things don't make sense, and I think the story is missing key details.

1) He was sentenced almost immediately after his arrest
2) The British are not allowed to report on trials
3) More importantly, the British aren't allowed to report on the details of Tommy's arrest

I mean, the guy is an utter prick and really, whatever happens to him he deserves, but I'm just frightened by the idea that a government can order reporters not to report on something. Other than national security issues, which I don't think this is. Again, I think I'm missing some key details here, because otherwise, well, Airstrip One.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Quercus » Mon May 28, 2018 6:56 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:So...

Not sure how I feel about this one.

Tommy Robinson, one of the founding members of the English Defense League, a xenophobic and racist bunch, has been arrested and sentenced to 13 months of prison. The crime is for filming outside the courthouse where the trial for one of the sex abuse rings was occurring. A judge had ruled that the media couldn't report on his arrest.

The guy is an utter prick, but so many things don't make sense, and I think the story is missing key details.

1) He was sentenced almost immediately after his arrest
2) The British are not allowed to report on trials
3) More importantly, the British aren't allowed to report on the details of Tommy's arrest

I mean, the guy is an utter prick and really, whatever happens to him he deserves, but I'm just frightened by the idea that a government can order reporters not to report on something. Other than national security issues, which I don't think this is. Again, I think I'm missing some key details here, because otherwise, well, Airstrip One.


It's an exceptional circumstances thing, not a standard occurance. In this case the judge is probably worried that reporting on the details of Tommy's arrest could influence the jurers in the sex abuse trial (hence why the reporting ban is to the end of the sex abuse trial). There's a guideline document on reporting restrictions in UK trials here: https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content ... 2016-2.pdf I'm not sure how I feel about them - the principle of a free press, and the principle of equitable justice are both ones I hold dear, and this is one attempt to decide what to do when they conflict directly. I haven't read the document so I can't comment on whether I think they've got it right.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Mon May 28, 2018 2:32 pm UTC

The sex abuse rings were beyond screwed up, mostly because the local authorities intentionally covered them up and let them continue for so long, because the labour party was afraid exposing them would, depending upon your view, alienate their voters or cause a racist backlash. "Group of Pakistanis kidnapping white girls and forcing them into prostitution while the government covers it up" is literally the most racist story a bigot could possibly make up, and yet it happened. And not just in one city either.

And while I utterly despise the EDL, given that the British were already covering up the sex abuse, the whole secrecy around Tommy Robinson's arrest is just beyond suspicious.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue May 29, 2018 3:42 pm UTC

DaBigCheez wrote:Seems like a lot of the "high gun ownership, low gun homicide" states are fairly rural - population more spread out, combined with higher gun ownership for purposes of hunting and the like.


In general, gun culture is largely rural. Needing to shoot a bear was a normal thing growing up, and happened on several occasions. It has happened exactly zero times since I moved to the east coast, and I have no reason to expect that to change. So, yeah, you do end up with rural populations being much more likely to view guns as merely tools, while urban populations view them differently(symbols of violence or power, perhaps).

sardia wrote:What happens when you combine an aging demographic with a country awash in guns? Crazy suicidal old people who can't tell friend from foe, and are heavily armed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/25/heal ... entia.html
The experts suggests a firearms trust, where you take them away when the trustee crosses a red flag, like dementia, or disability. This assumes you have friends and family who care enough to establish something for you. For the loners, we'll find out when they shoot themselves, or others.


Some states have a way to handle this through state law, but yeah, in practice, the mental health system is pretty awful at identifying impending risks.

If you set up a system for yourself/your family, that's excellent. Unfortunately, a lot of humanity is not terribly forward looking, and dementia does have a way of sneaking up on folks.

sardia wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Holy crap, Obama really did do wonders for gun ownership in the US. His most successful policy to date!

I don't think the figurehead matters in this case, any Democrat would have been painted as the antichrist of guns. The firearms industry struggles whenever there is a Republican in charge. I really dislike the lobbyists for these groups; nobody tells me what to fear, or how many guns I need to stop feeling afraid.


This is likely. Clinton was also portrayed as the devil incarnate with regards to firearms. He pushed the original assault weapons ban, and this greatly contributed to polarization. Had Hillary been elected instead of Trump, the same conflict would have almost certainly happened, as people assumed more restrictions were coming.

Fear of restrictions ends up driving a lot of sales and NRA memberships. Both see a big spike whenever it seems like gun regulations have some traction.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Tue May 29, 2018 4:33 pm UTC

How ingenious.
Have you heard Trump's take on Guns.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxgybgEKHHI

If a Democrat had said such a thing....
Of course, he has back peddled.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue May 29, 2018 11:25 pm UTC

addams wrote:If a Democrat had said such a thing....
Of course, he has back peddled.


Trump is not a very diehard Republican. He's just understands which side his bread is buttered on, really. He throws ideas out to see what people bite for, takes credit for anything apparently successful, and ditches the failures hard.

It's worked out pretty well for him so far, I suppose.

If he HAD stuck to his guns(irony intended), I'm sure the NRA would have gone nuts with outrage. When Republican folks have gone full on anti-gun, the NRA gets quite unhappy with them indeed.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:59 am UTC

Hungary considers passing law that would make offering food to refugees a criminal offence

If approved in its current form criminal penalties could be imposed on groups accused of supporting or financing illegal immigration.

As a result those offering food or legal advice or printing leaflets with information for asylum seekers, could be guilty of an offence.

In power since 2010, Mr Orban has campaigned on a platform of fierce hostility to immigration for years - policies that have put him at odds with the EU, which funds Hungary with billions of euros every year.
It may be worth noting that
... because apparently that kind of detail needs pointing out these days.

"It would be very easy to say I'm not targeted. I'm privileged. I'm white. I'm European. But people are in different situations, and I really feel that we have to think twice if we risk our [refugee] friends," says Aliz.

Under the proposal, those who distribute food and informational leaflets, or offer legal advice to asylum-seekers could serve jail time.

The UNHCR has asked the Hungarian parliament to withdraw the measure, claiming that it would "deprive people who are forced to flee their homes of critical aid and services, and further inflame tense public discourse and rising xenophobic attitudes".

The proposed legislation is the latest in a series of draft bills called "Stop-Soros", which aim to curb civil society groups and NGOs working on asylum issues in the country.

The previous Stop Soros bill included a 25 percent tax on foreign funds received by NGOs working on migration. While the new proposal appears to have dropped this provision, the draft legislation now contains language about punitive measures against activists and individuals helping migrants.
Daniel Mikecz, a political analyst at the Republikon Institute, a liberal-leaning think-tank in Budapest, says that focusing on migration has become a winning strategy for the Fidesz government.

"The point is to find conflicts, develop those conflicts where you can have a majority, and migration is such an issue. Most NGOs and civil society groups won't be affected by this law. So the government can say there are some NGOs, some activists, that are working against Hungary's sovereignty," Mikecz says.

The issue of migration is also connected to the government's attempt to stave off Hungary's demographic decline. Liberal democracy as Orban recently said, "has been exhausted" and "fails to deliver".

Orban has instead espoused the virtues of "Christian democracy" by promoting traditional families and an increase in the country's birth rate, to defend against refugees described as "Muslim invaders".

Currently, Muslims make up 0.4 percent of Hungary's total population.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:35 pm UTC

No legal advice? I would be worried about how this could be extended into fascism, except it is already there. Why stop at refugees? If someone is accused of a crime it should be illegal to work as an attorney for them. In fact, being accused of a crime should itself be a crime. Appealing a sentence should be considered contempt of court.

/snark

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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby Sableagle » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:00 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:... fascism, except it is already there.
Croatia's far right pushes for vote to curb minority rights

The "People Decide" group said it has collected nearly 400,000 signatures for a vote on a proposal to reduce the number of lawmakers in Croatia's parliament from 150 to a maximum 120, curb the number of MPs representing ethnic minorities and ban them from voting on crucial issues such as forming Croatia's government and the national budget.
Croatia's far right pushes for vote to curb minority rights

The "People Decide" group said it has collected nearly 400,000 signatures for a vote on a proposal to reduce the number of lawmakers in Croatia's parliament from 150 to a maximum 120, curb the number of MPs representing ethnic minorities and ban them from voting on crucial issues such as forming Croatia's government and the national budget.
Croatia's far right pushes for vote to curb minority rights

The "People Decide" group said it has collected nearly 400,000 signatures for a vote on a proposal to reduce the number of lawmakers in Croatia's parliament from 150 to a maximum 120, curb the number of MPs representing ethnic minorities and ban them from voting on crucial issues such as forming Croatia's government and the national budget.


Like, deja vu or something, dude.

Ugh. *headdesk* I don't want to be around to watch it happen again.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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sardia
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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby sardia » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:16 am UTC

Not sure if anybody posted this, but I was pleasantly surprised to find out that George Takei is no longer considered a rapist. yay? https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/ ... story.html
It's a shame he had to face false accusations.


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Re: The Darker Side of the News

Postby addams » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:55 pm UTC

Yep.
That's kind of 'old News'.
I do muse about the Stock Market.

Someone is telling the AI what to do.
I have a suspicion, the U.S. economy is being artificially supported.
Like the Power Grid, a Political Reason can set 'things' in motion.

The Stock Market can crash.
Or; The lights might go out.
https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/ ... ower-grid/

Who knows What was on the thumb drives Snowden gave Moscow?
I am confident Snowden did not then and does not now know.

He had thousands and thousands of pages.
He wasn't comfortable with us having it.

I'm not comfortable with 'them' having it.
It's digital warfare and we are the losers.
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.


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