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Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused of...

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:35 am UTC
by KnightExemplar
Trigger warning.

This is always a painful topic to bring up, but as this story has begun to make its rounds across the internet, I feel it is important to have some kind of discussion here on this story. Apologies to the mods in advance, I feel like this topic we're gonna be in for a rough ride. The TL;DR: version is quite simple: this is your classic "he said, she said" situation where two people have grossly different viewpoints on an event that happened 10 years ago. And as unfortunate as it is, this event was an accused rape. Max Temkin is (internet) famous for creating the "Cards against Humanity" card game, a very vulgar game with lots of inappropriate jokes in it.

The accusation started on twitter. Max Temkin has officially responded in a blog post. And now roughly 5 or 6 days later, it seems like this story is beginning to reach critical mass and hitting the internet by storm. (its come up in multiple websites that I frequent... just not here quite yet).

Without going into the drama, Max Temkin's argument goes no further than:
We spent a few nights in each others’ rooms, but we never had sex and neither of us pressured the other into doing anything we weren’t comfortable with.


Which is a very different story than what the accuser claims: http://humanityagainstassault.tumblr.co ... 6355/truth

Since the event took place a long time ago, we will never know the truth. I don't really know what to discuss on this matter, because there is literally nothing I can say that would deescalate the situation. If the rape accusation is true, of course Max has to be punished. But if it is false, then this is a very damaging piece of slander that must also be punished. And in the absence of facts, the citizens of the internet will react angrily as they pick sides and assume realities that they have no proof for.

I don't know what to make of this. But perhaps there's a more productive discussion at heart here than what is going elsewhere on the internet. If a rape victim feels as if he / she were mishandled by someone, then it needs to be brought up as soon as it happens. Letting these issues simmer for years leads to long-term landmines and an inability for justice to ever be served. Its hard though, because rape is one of the hardest crimes to report. But if there is a lesson to be learned here, its to seek justice when it is still possible to seek justice.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:30 am UTC
by Zcorp
She says she is seeking nothing except to put it out into the world to help others. Which is patently not true.

Your presentation of this issue is, to say the least, deceptive. Temkin offers no argument, just a recollection of something that happened either 8 or 10 years ago, so why claim he did?

Unless actual evidence exists there seems to be very little reason to have this thread exist. There are other places to discuss rape and rape culture without glorifying this instance.

The only valuable discussion to have here is what to do when you want to tell you sexual assault/rape story online, the various goals one might have, the value of those goals and how to achieve them. Which doesn't really belong in this area of the forum.

This story itself leaves nothing to discuss.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:19 am UTC
by Crissa
How exactly is this a topic?

We literally cannot know anything about it. There is no evidence, it's a decade old, and only rides upon a controversy over admitted dark humor about things which should not be funny. It wouldn't be a conversation piece.

It's not a useful accusation. There is no victim involved (friend of a friend, really?), no event to have witnesses, nor evidence, no testimony to judge.

The twitter argument is also several days dead.

-Crissa

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:03 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Its begun to make its rounds on Tumblr, Kotaku, Jezabel, ycombinator, Reddit, Twitter, and Facebook. It seems to be popping up on various online publications I haven't heard about as well. Even if there isn't much to discuss, I think its generated enough steam to warrant a topic. Frankly, I'm fine with the topic dying here and now if no one else wants to discuss this.

The majority of discussion seems to be towards Max Temkin's original post, and whether or not his words support "rape culture". Part of it is perhaps the horrible jokes that you're encouraged to do in his game "Cards against Humanity".

Your presentation of this issue is, to say the least, deceptive. Temkin offers no argument, just a recollection of something that happened either 8 or 10 years ago, so why claim he did?


Seriously dude? Let me quote myself from the first post: "goes no further than". Do you know what the words "goes no further than" actually mean?

The subject is already hard enough to discuss without you making accusatory remarks.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:10 pm UTC
by philsov
And in the absence of facts, the citizens of the internet will react angrily as they pick sides and assume realities that they have no proof for.


Sounds like something worth perpetuating!

But if there is a lesson to be learned here, its to seek justice when it is still possible to seek justice.


While the statement itself is true, I don't see how it applies here.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:52 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
philsov wrote:
And in the absence of facts, the citizens of the internet will react angrily as they pick sides and assume realities that they have no proof for.


Sounds like something worth perpetuating!


Pretty much.

Something said something about someone who made a card game. K. Not sure how I'm supposed to add anything valuable to that.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:13 pm UTC
by Spambot5546
I don't know why, but I find this kind of thing fascinating.

First, we get a 100% hearsay accusation. "Friend of a friend". No particular reason to doubt it, but no reason to believe it's true, either.

Then the accused posts about how innocent they are, phrasing it in a way that suggests understanding of the difficulties of the issue.

Then a less hearsay accusation comes up, with a blog purporting to be written by the actual victim repeating the accusation. We still have no particular reason to doubt it, but no reason to believe it's true or even written by the person saying they wrote it. At least not as far as I know.

Then bloggers comes in and says "yeah, he seems understanding. A little too understanding. Why would he be this understanding of rape culture and feminism if he didn't rape her!?" Except unlike the comical nonsense I'm making it sound like they actually raised fairly good points, especially in pointing out where he got a couple points wrong. Those points might be why an assault really did happen without him thinking it did.

There's no reason to believe anyone, no reason do doubt anyone, and no way to verify any of this. Why do I want to read more!?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:03 pm UTC
by Zcorp
KnightExemplar wrote:Seriously dude? Let me quote myself from the first post: "goes no further than". Do you know what the words "goes no further than" actually mean?

Stating that someone has an argument that doesn't go far does not some how magically change something that is not an argument into an argument.

The subject is already hard enough to discuss without you making accusatory remarks.
I didn't accuse you of anything, I stated what you did, and that it does not help the discussion that can't even really exist on this topic.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:06 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Maybe it'd help if you'd tell me what you want me to concede, or what your point is in all of this ZCorp.

You are accusing me of being deceptive and inaccurate of this subject.
Your presentation of this issue is, to say the least, deceptive


So what do you want me to do about it?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:19 pm UTC
by Zcorp
KnightExemplar wrote:Maybe it'd help if you'd tell me what you want me to concede, or what your point is in all of this ZCorp.

You are accusing me of being deceptive and inaccurate of this subject.
Your presentation of this issue is, to say the least, deceptive


So what do you want me to do about it?

I don't want you to concede anything, I do hope you learn something though, nor am I accusing you of anything, I'm making a statement of what you did intentionally or not. There is no argument between us, thus nothing for you to concede. Just like how Temkin has not made an argument. I was informing you that your presentation of this issue is deceptive. You quoted my point. There is no argument going on, Temkin is not arguing anything about what rape is or isn't, neither is the accuser, so why would you present it as if there was an argument going on?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:25 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Let me break it down for you.

ar·gu·ment
ˈärgyəmənt/
noun
noun: argument; plural noun: arguments

1.
an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
"I've had an argument with my father"
synonyms: quarrel, disagreement, squabble, fight, dispute, wrangle, clash, altercation, feud, contretemps, disputation, falling-out; More
informaltiff, row, blowup, rhubarb;
vulgar slangshitstorm
"he had an argument with Tony"
2.
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"
synonyms: reasoning, justification, explanation, rationalization;


Definition 2: Temkin is arguing that he is innocent in the rape accusation.

This is basic English here man. He has an entire tumblr page blog post arguing that he is innocent.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:28 pm UTC
by Zcorp
Sorry you don't want to learn and want to fabricate drama, I'll let you get back to putting up pointless posts.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:47 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Dude, you seem to have a problem with me. Lets take this to PMs.

EDIT: I accept ZCorps PMs and I'm cool. We've got it hashed out.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:56 pm UTC
by KrytenKoro
I think it's sad that internet warriors are calling for a boycott based on a complete lack of evidence, and honestly, most of the critiques of Temkin's response seem to be operating off the assumption that a rape did happen (he explicitly says sex did not happen, so you either claim he's lying or you don't, but you can't support a picture of him claiming it was "consensual" because he's claiming nothing happened at all).

I have no opinion on Temkin and the mystery lady, but as for all the people discussing the case, most of them seem to have their head up their arses acting like there's some kind of grand conspiracy on one or both parts, rather than just two people who are bad at communicating, with the possibility of some trauma thrown in as well.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:02 am UTC
by WilliamLehnsherr
Spambot5546 wrote: No particular reason to doubt it, but no reason to believe it's true, either.
...
There's no reason to believe anyone, no reason do doubt anyone, and no way to verify any of this. Why do I want to read more!?


my response is unrelated to the topic (or "off-topic", as the kids say), so I put it in spoilers (it's shorter than this explanation, though it wouldn't be without this sentence):

Spoiler:
In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:54 pm UTC
by Spambot5546
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

True in a general sense, but unless you're a juror it's a bit of a faux pas (to put it lightly) to apply that logic to sexual assault.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:05 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
Spambot5546 wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

True in a general sense, but unless you're a juror it's a bit of a faux pas (to put it lightly) to apply that logic to sexual assault.


Ah, so, for some reason, we should take a pass on logic for this topic, because it's special?

Look, there's no evidence here. Taking action based on jack-all for supporting evidence is not reasonable. If evidence arises, worry about it then.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 1:32 pm UTC
by KnightExemplar
Tyndmyr wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

True in a general sense, but unless you're a juror it's a bit of a faux pas (to put it lightly) to apply that logic to sexual assault.


Ah, so, for some reason, we should take a pass on logic for this topic, because it's special?

Look, there's no evidence here. Taking action based on jack-all for supporting evidence is not reasonable. If evidence arises, worry about it then.


Indeed. In the US at least, we have "Innocent until proven guilty". That means in cases like this, we should presume the accused party to be innocent. Realistically, that means that crimes only have a limited amount of time when you can report them. Evidence disappears with time.

That said, it could be that there was some form of sexual assault that was not specifically rape. It seems like the word "Rape" has only been used in the Twitter feed, which may have been used as a shortcut for sexual assault. (140 characters maximum is a bitch). Dissecting the better written "Humanity against Sexual Assault" page, I've noticed that the word "rape" was never used.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:23 pm UTC
by philsov
Indeed. In the US at least, we have "Innocent until proven guilty". That means in cases like this, we should presume the accused party to be innocent.


Yes.

Realistically, that means that crimes only have a limited amount of time when you can report them. Evidence disappears with time.


Do you agree that Temkin should sue for libel, before the statute of limitations (which is a completely different concept that innocent until proven guilty / benefit of the doubt) prevents him from doing so?

Or are you operating under the assumption that the accused party is in fact not innocent, despite any evidence towards this?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:24 pm UTC
by Diadem
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

But we have reason to believe it is true. The fact that someone is making the claim is proof. People lie less often than they speak truth. A random statement that someone is claiming is true is far more likely to be true than a random statement that no-one is claiming is true.
Of course is this case we have equal proof to the contrary, because another person is denying the claim. Without more information, that makes the likelihood that its true 50%, far more than the likelihood that a random statement for which there is no evidence at all is true.

Without knowing more about the case, we literally have as much reason to believe as disbelieve the statement. The likelihood we should assign it is 50%. Of course we can look at relative frequency of true vs. false accusations, or we can look into the character of the people involved, or things like that, to get a better estimate.

Tyndmyr wrote:
Spambot5546 wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

True in a general sense, but unless you're a juror it's a bit of a faux pas (to put it lightly) to apply that logic to sexual assault.

Ah, so, for some reason, we should take a pass on logic for this topic, because it's special?

No, but our interests are different. A juror in a trial is supposed to err on the side of caution. We have no such burden. Honestly how you should respond to a rape accusation depends largely on how it affects if you. If you are good friends with the accuser, but don't know the accused, believe the accuser. If you are good friends with the accused, but don't know the accuser, believe the accused. If you know neither, the truth does't matter and you can just ignore the issue. If you are good friend with both, well, then you have a problem and there is no easy solution.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:28 pm UTC
by Zcorp
Diadem wrote:No, but our interests are different. A juror in a trial is supposed to err on the side of caution. We have no such burden.

Ah yes the burden of being a reasonable person, how terrible it is.

Honestly how you should respond to a rape accusation depends largely on how it affects if you. If you are good friends with the accuser, but don't know the accused, believe the accuser. If you are good friends with the accused, but don't know the accuser, believe the accused. If you know neither, the truth does't matter and you can just ignore the issue. If you are good friend with both, well, then you have a problem and there is no easy solution.

No, people should create a belief when there is sufficient evidence to do so, to much of the world works on 'because my friend said so' and its a shame. We should desire more from ourselves and expect more of others.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:40 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
Diadem wrote:No, but our interests are different. A juror in a trial is supposed to err on the side of caution. We have no such burden. Honestly how you should respond to a rape accusation depends largely on how it affects if you. If you are good friends with the accuser, but don't know the accused, believe the accuser. If you are good friends with the accused, but don't know the accuser, believe the accused. If you know neither, the truth does't matter and you can just ignore the issue. If you are good friend with both, well, then you have a problem and there is no easy solution.


I wish to believe what is true, not what happens to benefit those I know.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:53 pm UTC
by Zamfir

If people want to discuss this specific case, please do.

If people can only offer the same arguments that apply to a myriad other rape accusation cases, then we already have a myriad of those threads and no dire need for another one.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:44 pm UTC
by KrytenKoro
KnightExemplar wrote:written "Humanity against Sexual Assault" page, I've noticed that the word "rape" was never used.

From the reports I've heard, that page was revised to replace "rape" with "sexual assault" after Temkin's complaint.

That's hearsay without an archive, though.

The original facebook face explicitly says that Temkin is "[her] rapist", though. That's also the one where she's asking him not to be lauded by the university, and (if I'm remembering correctly) that CAH be boycotted, contrary to the tumblr page where she claims she wants nothing but to tell people the truth.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:54 pm UTC
by poochyena
I find things like this difficult.
I just can't understand the logic of, something bad happened, so i'm going to do nothing about it.
When someone assualts you or robs you, it is your responsibility to report it, and if you don't, then some blame has to be put on you.
I just feel you have no right to complain about something if you do nothing about it.

I'm just so tired of these stories where these people do nothing about stuff that happened to them until many years later. I just simply don't understand the logic of not reporting this stuff.

I'm sorry for sounding kinda rude, I just get angry when people don't stand up for themselves, and even more angry when people lie about stuff like this.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:25 pm UTC
by Chen
Was there any reason WHY this person came out with this now? I can't access Facebook or the like from work so I haven't really looked into it. Was there something special going on with this Cards Against Humanity guy recently that drove this?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:33 pm UTC
by philsov
Chen wrote:Was there any reason WHY this person came out with this now? I can't access Facebook or the like from work so I haven't really looked into it. Was there something special going on with this Cards Against Humanity guy recently that drove this?


She finally had the courage to after the Santa Barbara stabbings/shootings and tumblr/twitter-verse yesallwomen stuff.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:01 pm UTC
by KrytenKoro
philsov wrote:
Chen wrote:Was there any reason WHY this person came out with this now? I can't access Facebook or the like from work so I haven't really looked into it. Was there something special going on with this Cards Against Humanity guy recently that drove this?


She finally had the courage to after the Santa Barbara stabbings/shootings and tumblr/twitter-verse yesallwomen stuff.

Also, apparently Goucher had a news article lauding Temkin for CAH.

That brings up a secondary question: suppose someone who accomplished something meaningful also, unrelatedly, traumatized another person. Is it inappropriate to laud them for their legitimate accomplishments in light of their sin? If not, what considerations should be appropriate for the traumee?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:16 pm UTC
by Crissa
Zamfir wrote:If people can only offer the same arguments that apply to a myriad other rape accusation cases, then we already have a myriad of those threads and no dire need for another one.

I would say this is different. In this case there isn't a preponderance of evidence that any occurred.

Discussing how we should handle accusations years after the fact is probably the best use for this thread.

What exactly should we do, ten years later? Society cannot just act upon every accusation years later; it could come to a screeching halt. Even if he did do it, it would still be ten years later.

-Crissa

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:20 am UTC
by PAstrychef
In a similar vein, Marion Zimmer Bradley abused her daughter, and her husband, Walter Breen, was a pedophile who assaulted dozens of boys. This first came up when MZB's daughter testified about the sexual abuse and helped convict her father, and was revealed to the world at large earlier this year. There is solid evidence that this abuse occurred. Bradley died in 1999.
Citation
So, should people boycott her books? Is there an appropriate action to take in these situations?

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:55 am UTC
by Tyndmyr
Crissa wrote:
Zamfir wrote:If people can only offer the same arguments that apply to a myriad other rape accusation cases, then we already have a myriad of those threads and no dire need for another one.

I would say this is different. In this case there isn't a preponderance of evidence that any occurred.

Discussing how we should handle accusations years after the fact is probably the best use for this thread.

What exactly should we do, ten years later? Society cannot just act upon every accusation years later; it could come to a screeching halt. Even if he did do it, it would still be ten years later.

-Crissa


I agree. Blind speculation with not even the slightest shred of evidence is not a good thing. We can't reasonably act on that. It seems that the originating post wanted exactly this, though, requesting a boycott of CAH.

Full disclosure: I happen to resell non-trivial quantities of CAH. So, not really an abstract question for me.

PAstrychef wrote:In a similar vein, Marion Zimmer Bradley abused her daughter, and her husband, Walter Breen, was a pedophile who assaulted dozens of boys. This first came up when MZB's daughter testified about the sexual abuse and helped convict her father, and was revealed to the world at large earlier this year. There is solid evidence that this abuse occurred. Bradley died in 1999.
Citation
So, should people boycott her books? Is there an appropriate action to take in these situations?


Solid evidence changes everything. Personally, I do not think a boycott is, or is not required, but I believe many people prefer to do business with people they respect/admire. I may not HAVE to boycott Card(to use a non rape example) when I learn he's a terrible person, but...I'm much less enthused about giving him money. I wouldn't be surprised to see a negative effect on sales, nor would I think avoiding supporting such a person is a bad thing.

However, an entirely unsupported accusation cannot reasonably be given influence simply because of the gravity of the unsupported claims.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:04 am UTC
by WilliamLehnsherr
Diadem wrote:
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:In my mind, having no reason to believe something's true is reason to doubt it. Maybe I'm just too skeptical of everything.

But we have reason to believe it is true. The fact that someone is making the claim is proof. People lie less often than they speak truth. A random statement that someone is claiming is true is far more likely to be true than a random statement that no-one is claiming is true.
Of course is this case we have equal proof to the contrary, because another person is denying the claim. Without more information, that makes the likelihood that its true 50%, far more than the likelihood that a random statement for which there is no evidence at all is true.


I was just giving a general response, not about the topic at hand. If there's no reason to believe something, that in itself is reason to doubt it. If there is reason to believe something, that's obviously different. Though there still might be reason to doubt it. I'm sure everyone here has had an experience where they've both believed in something yet doubted it at the same time.

Yeah, someone making a claim might be in itself reason to believe its true. I don't think it should be a general rule, though. There's plenty of reasons why someone may make a claim that is false. And there isn't necessarily a 50% chance for one or the other. Some claims are more believable than others. Some people are more believable than others. Again, I'm not talking about this topic specifically.

Tyndmyr wrote:
PAstrychef wrote:In a similar vein, Marion Zimmer Bradley abused her daughter, and her husband, Walter Breen, was a pedophile who assaulted dozens of boys. This first came up when MZB's daughter testified about the sexual abuse and helped convict her father, and was revealed to the world at large earlier this year. There is solid evidence that this abuse occurred. Bradley died in 1999.
Citation
So, should people boycott her books? Is there an appropriate action to take in these situations?


Solid evidence changes everything. Personally, I do not think a boycott is, or is not required, but I believe many people prefer to do business with people they respect/admire. I may not HAVE to boycott Card(to use a non rape example) when I learn he's a terrible person, but...I'm much less enthused about giving him money. I wouldn't be surprised to see a negative effect on sales, nor would I think avoiding supporting such a person is a bad thing.

However, an entirely unsupported accusation cannot reasonably be given influence simply because of the gravity of the unsupported claims.


This is an interesting issue (and one that I think is on topic). I'm a black metal fan, but there are certain bands I won't buy the albums from because of their racist politics and murder convictions. But as I type this, I can see a DVD of Rosemary's Baby on my shelf. So I'm not at all consistent.

And is the issue that people don't want to give money to people who do certain things and hold certain beliefs, or is it they don't want to enjoy something created by those types of people? Because plenty of dead authors held views far more bigoted than Card and did things worse than Polanski, yet no one seems to care because it happened so long ago. I guess once the author is dead it's easier to separate the creator from the creation.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:09 am UTC
by Tyndmyr
WilliamLehnsherr wrote:This is an interesting issue (and one that I think is on topic). I'm a black metal fan, but there are certain bands I won't buy the albums from because of their racist politics and murder convictions. But as I type this, I can see a DVD of Rosemary's Baby on my shelf. So I'm not at all consistent.

And is the issue that people don't want to give money to people who do certain things and hold certain beliefs, or is it they don't want to enjoy something created by those types of people? Because plenty of dead authors held views far more bigoted than Card and did things worse than Polanski, yet no one seems to care because it happened so long ago. I guess once the author is dead it's easier to separate them from their creation.


Oh, for sure. I mean, if the authors dead, then my purchase or lack thereof probably does not reward him, or impact proliferation of views I disagree with or whatever. So, boycotting at that point seems like an exercise in futility.

And it may be that a person did something bad, but your desire for the item simply outweighs how much you care about that. Happens. I eat at Chik'fila occasionally...for no other reason than that I quite like their chicken sammiches. Their views on gay rights are not something I like, exactly, but it seems sufficiently disconnected that I'm not going to worry about it overly. One cannot reasonably boycott everything even vaguely associated with something one dislikes. Gotta balance desires somehow.

Re: Trigger Warning: Cards against Humanity author accused o

Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:03 am UTC
by Crissa
PAstrychef wrote:So, should people boycott her books? Is there an appropriate action to take in these situations?

That's interesting, since the only one who could benefit from the sale of her books now - aside from the publishers - is her daughter.

-Crissa