[WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female thor

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[WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female thor

Postby Fancy » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:04 pm UTC

So they will be making a black captain america, completely trashing the original story.

And a female thor. Thor is a Scandinavian MALE name. This is gonna be great.

Anyone want to chip in and start a discussion or just let this die?
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:07 pm UTC

As a pretty big fan of comic books and stories in general, I don't really give a fuck. Meaning, I'm excited to see what they do with it.

These stories are so far removed from the source material, which in the case of Captain America effectively had zero 'integrity' to begin with, that who the fuck cares what they do with it or where they take it? Comics have a long and rich history of being retconned anyway.

The sort of people who get bent out of shape over this are the sort of people who probably didn't read much comics anyway. Especially when you don't sensationalize your hysteria, and say it like it actually is;

Captain America is passing the mantle to a black dude, a dude he's worked with and who was in the film.
Thor Girl is an Asgardian (or alien that became an Asgardian, whatever), who works with Thor.

You might want to link an article.
EDIT: Here's one on Cap'n, which, mind you, is a PASSING OF THE MANTLE, so...

Here's a bit on Thor Girl
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby leady » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:18 pm UTC

I've no emotional investiment in either character - so largely meh. Passing the mantle has no impact on anything anyway.

But "Thor Girl" is a such god awful name even by Marvel's c-list of characters :)

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:29 pm UTC

leady wrote:I've no emotional investiment in either character - so largely meh. Passing the mantle has no impact on anything anyway.

But "Thor Girl" is a such god awful name even by Marvel's c-list of characters :)


Thor girl is kind of a weak name. Like...give her a name of her own. Or, I dunno, use Sif. Whichever.

This screams "cheap publicity grab for moneys and sales, after which we'll put everything back the way it was". Which, fortunately, almost never happens in comics. :roll:

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby firechicago » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:31 pm UTC

Fancy wrote:So they will be making a black captain america, completely trashing the original story.

Trashed in what way? Trashed the way they killed off Superman in the 90's and now he's permanently dead and they've never done another story about him since? Or trashed the way that when the Watchmen movie came out they rounded up every single extant copy of the comic book and burned them in a massive bonfire to make sure that no one could read any version of the story other than the movie?
Fancy wrote:And a female thor. Thor is a Scandinavian MALE name.

So is Loki. Didn't prevent Loki from not only becoming female, but even bearing a child in the original myths. (Actually, gender-bending has a long history in Norse mythology and culture. Transgression of gender norms was associated with very powerful and primordial magic, which may be part of why it shows up so often in Norse burials.)
Izawwlgood wrote:Here's a bit on Thor Girl

That is not at all relevant to the current female Thor storyline.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:34 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:As a pretty big fan of comic books and stories in general, I don't really give a fuck. Meaning, I'm excited to see what they do with it.

These stories are so far removed from the source material, which in the case of Captain America effectively had zero 'integrity' to begin with, that who the fuck cares what they do with it or where they take it? Comics have a long and rich history of being retconned anyway.

The sort of people who get bent out of shape over this are the sort of people who probably didn't read much comics anyway. Especially when you don't sensationalize your hysteria, and say it like it actually is;

Captain America is passing the mantle to a black dude, a dude he's worked with and who was in the film.
Thor Girl is an Asgardian (or alien that became an Asgardian, whatever), who works with Thor.

You might want to link an article.
EDIT: Here's one on Cap'n, which, mind you, is a PASSING OF THE MANTLE, so...

Here's a bit on Thor Girl


Both these are in fact passing the reins type thing. Cap is choosing his successor. No issue there. Apparently Thor (current Male version) will be found unworthy of Mjolnir and it will pass to another. Apparently whoever wields that is in fact the Thunder God Thor, whatever their gender/name currently is. I assume the new female Thor will be some random person akin to Donald Blake who shared his persona with the current male Thor.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/7/15/59016 ... ow-a-woman for the Thor part.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:42 pm UTC

I hear Captain America's successor will be the Falcon, which makes sense and I give that two thumbs up. The shield has been passed before: with Bucky (during the crappy Civil War arc). So having the shield passed to another one of Captain America's friends makes sense within the story and everything.

The Thor thing is just lazy pandering however.

EDIT: There are female goddesses and figures in the Norse Pantheon. It'd be like turning Ares into a female warrior when Athena is sitting right there. Why make female Thor when you can choose... Gunnar or someone.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:49 pm UTC

Isn't the female version of Thor just Thora?

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:51 pm UTC

Ah, so it's a new Thor! That's awesome. And lo! it's still consistent if Mjolnir is simply finding a new successor.

I don't see what the problem is!
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby cphite » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:11 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:I hear Captain America's successor will be the Falcon, which makes sense and I give that two thumbs up. The shield has been passed before: with Bucky (during the crappy Civil War arc). So having the shield passed to another one of Captain America's friends makes sense within the story and everything.


Could care less about the race... it really shouldn't matter what color the guy is. But from a more nerdy perspective, isn't the whole point of Captain America that he went through that process that changed him; the one that cannot be replicated because apparently none of the scientists working on it decided to take any notes or record anything they were doing? There has to be more to it than Cap handing over his shield.

The Thor thing is just lazy pandering however.


But from a comic perspective it's still more acceptable, since whoever holds the hammer essentially "is" Thor.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Spambot5546 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:37 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Isn't the female version of Thor just Thora?

I was going to say "Thyri" but evidently that means "protected by Thor". If this is to be believed Thora will be showing up on Vikings in a season or two.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:45 pm UTC

People who have wielded the Hammer and therefore, the power of Thor. Essentially making them indistinguishable from Thor as far as placement in the cosmos goes -

Odin, Thor, Captain America, Awesome Andy, Thunderstrike, Air-Walker, Beta Ray Bill, Buri, Superman, Wonder Woman, Deadpool, Red Norvell, Throg, Wonder Man and Dargo.

I don't think I'm counting the various times Thor's been dead, reincarnated, a robot, a secondary personality or what the heck else. Like Eric Masterson, Don Blake, Jake Olsen, Ragnarok, FakeThor that Franklin made and so on.

So.. the powers, name, and right to wield the hammer is not exactly common, but not a shockingly mind-blowing event that someone else is worthy beyond Thor.

In addition, Thor has stated that Hercules is worthy, but Hercules has never been stated or seen to attempt to wield the hammer.

Now, if you're going to get all bent out of shape about Thor being *gasp* A Lady!..... where the fuck were you in Jan. 2008 when Loki showed up as a chick? How about we all just have a nice cup of Shut Up and See Where They're Going With This first?
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Diadem » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:48 pm UTC

The "Thor is found not worthy of Mjolnir" is kind of weird though. It kind of implies we have been cheering for the wrong guy all along. And also it is just begging for a redemption arc, which means that the female Thor will probably be shortlived.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:49 pm UTC

Depends how they write the character. The Green Lantern is whoever the ring is given to, so there really is nothing stopping the next Green Lantern from being a woman. I never read Thor (just the Nibelungenlied), so if it's just whoever Mjolnir chooses nothing says Thor has to be a man. Or for that matter, white or straight or young.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:59 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:The "Thor is found not worthy of Mjolnir" is kind of weird though. It kind of implies we have been cheering for the wrong guy all along. And also it is just begging for a redemption arc, which means that the female Thor will probably be shortlived.


She'll last as long as her comic sales stay good.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:00 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:I hear Captain America's successor will be the Falcon, which makes sense and I give that two thumbs up. The shield has been passed before: with Bucky (during the crappy Civil War arc). So having the shield passed to another one of Captain America's friends makes sense within the story and everything.


Could care less about the race... it really shouldn't matter what color the guy is. But from a more nerdy perspective, isn't the whole point of Captain America that he went through that process that changed him; the one that cannot be replicated because apparently none of the scientists working on it decided to take any notes or record anything they were doing? There has to be more to it than Cap handing over his shield.


That would be the point of Steve Rogers, not "Captain America". A big point of Captain America is the symbolism in the costume. The costume and shield will be passed down, but not Steve Roger's abilities.

Besides, "Black" Captain America isn't new. Isaiah Bradley was Captain America in 2003. The mantle has been passed around as needed. I think I have good hopes for that story.

The Thor thing is just lazy pandering however.


But from a comic perspective it's still more acceptable, since whoever holds the hammer essentially "is" Thor.


Perhaps, but it reeks of blatantly lazy female characters like Supergirl and whatever. I do like Batgirl / Cassandra Cain and Spidergirl... these actually a decent story. But overall, female counterparts to male superheroes are just done lazily.

Its one thing to make a new female all-star character. IE: Wonder Woman. Its another thing to just lazily make a character into a female, especially when drawing from source material (Norse Mythology) that has plenty of strong females to choose from.

Really, it depends on how well they make the comic. At the end of the day, if its a good story I'll be happy about it. I think my problem is that the majority of "turn male superheros into female" is that the female version always is overshadowed by her male counterpart.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:01 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:I hear Captain America's successor will be the Falcon, which makes sense and I give that two thumbs up. The shield has been passed before: with Bucky (during the crappy Civil War arc). So having the shield passed to another one of Captain America's friends makes sense within the story and everything.


Could care less about the race... it really shouldn't matter what color the guy is. But from a more nerdy perspective, isn't the whole point of Captain America that he went through that process that changed him; the one that cannot be replicated because apparently none of the scientists working on it decided to take any notes or record anything they were doing? There has to be more to it than Cap handing over his shield.


Sort of. The superhuman serum definitely is replicated...but being at "peak physical condition" is...good, but not amazingly special in the Marvel Universe. Super-strength is a particularly common power. Cap's leadership skills are also not particularly serum derived. The serum is less important to Cap's origin than say, gamma radiation is to the hulk, or the spider bite is to spiderman, because he just isn't that ridiculously superpowered.

Diadem wrote:The "Thor is found not worthy of Mjolnir" is kind of weird though. It kind of implies we have been cheering for the wrong guy all along. And also it is just begging for a redemption arc, which means that the female Thor will probably be shortlived.


This. The sin is the predictability of the inevitible return to status quo.

I guess it opens up interesting cosplay options, though? *shrug*

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby poxic » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:02 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Depends how they write the character. The Green Lantern is whoever the ring is given to, so there really is nothing stopping the next Green Lantern from being a woman. I never read Thor (just the Nibelungenlied), so if it's just whoever Mjolnir chooses nothing says Thor has to be a man. Or for that matter, white or straight or young.

You just led me to imagine Mjolnir dragging an elderly, whooping Dave Chappelle behind itself.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:30 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Sort of. The superhuman serum definitely is replicated...but being at "peak physical condition" is...good, but not amazingly special in the Marvel Universe. Super-strength is a particularly common power. Cap's leadership skills are also not particularly serum derived. The serum is less important to Cap's origin than say, gamma radiation is to the hulk, or the spider bite is to spiderman, because he just isn't that ridiculously superpowered.
I think you're incorrect about this; Cap'n is for all intents and purposes on the same strength range as Spiderman, Iron Man in suit, Wolverine, etc. The super soldier serum is 100% absolutely important to his origin, because without it, he's just a skinny dude with a good attitude.

Cap'n America's super strength is NOT just 'can benchpress more than you're average human' it's 'Can wrestle with Thor'.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Chen » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:46 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I think you're incorrect about this; Cap'n is for all intents and purposes on the same strength range as Spiderman, Iron Man in suit, Wolverine, etc. The super soldier serum is 100% absolutely important to his origin, because without it, he's just a skinny dude with a good attitude.

Cap'n America's super strength is NOT just 'can benchpress more than you're average human' it's 'Can wrestle with Thor'.


From the wiki Cap can bench 2400 lbs (+ bar lol). Spiderman is around the 10 ton range in strength and Thor is so insanely out of both their leagues its not funny. For reference he lifted the Midgard serpent off the earth and into space. The Serpent is supposed to have the same mass as the earth itself.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:55 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I think you're incorrect about this; Cap'n is for all intents and purposes on the same strength range as Spiderman, Iron Man in suit, Wolverine, etc. The super soldier serum is 100% absolutely important to his origin, because without it, he's just a skinny dude with a good attitude.

Cap'n America's super strength is NOT just 'can benchpress more than you're average human' it's 'Can wrestle with Thor'.


From the wiki Cap can bench 2400 lbs (+ bar lol). Spiderman is around the 10 ton range in strength and Thor is so insanely out of both their leagues its not funny. For reference he lifted the Midgard serpent off the earth and into space. The Serpent is supposed to have the same mass as the earth itself.
Well, I mean, + bar, so, we can't really compare.

I jest.

Ok, so, Cap is strikingly weaker than those two, bad examples. Here is the strength scale:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Strength_Scale

My point though, was that the super soldier serum is very important to who Cap is, because Cap is not merely 'a strong dude'.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby KnightExemplar » Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:56 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Izawwlgood wrote:I think you're incorrect about this; Cap'n is for all intents and purposes on the same strength range as Spiderman, Iron Man in suit, Wolverine, etc. The super soldier serum is 100% absolutely important to his origin, because without it, he's just a skinny dude with a good attitude.

Cap'n America's super strength is NOT just 'can benchpress more than you're average human' it's 'Can wrestle with Thor'.


From the wiki Cap can bench 2400 lbs (+ bar lol). Spiderman is around the 10 ton range in strength and Thor is so insanely out of both their leagues its not funny. For reference he lifted the Midgard serpent off the earth and into space. The Serpent is supposed to have the same mass as the earth itself.


I distinctly remember Captain America being stronger than Spiderman at one point, and Spiderman was always in the multi-ton range for strength.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:00 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:Perhaps, but it reeks of blatantly lazy female characters like Supergirl and whatever. I do like Batgirl / Cassandra Cain and Spidergirl... these actually a decent story. But overall, female counterparts to male superheroes are just done lazily.

Its one thing to make a new female all-star character. IE: Wonder Woman. Its another thing to just lazily make a character into a female, especially when drawing from source material (Norse Mythology) that has plenty of strong females to choose from.

See again - where were you in 2008? Or earlier?

Basically, I'm saying that this is so incredibly common in comics and has been done long enough that complaining about it is kinda like complaining about the musical instrument strike in horror films when something nonthreatening happens to a character early in a film.

Find a new complaint.

And all that is before we even get into how Marvel's Asguardians are Norse in name only. Goddamn Spock - take your pick on which one (I vote Party Spock) - has a better claim to being Odin than Marvel's Odin.

Relative to the other forms of Media, comics are so incredibly behind in their representation of women and minorities that anything is better than the status quo. We're long past "Have well-written women, nonwhite, non-Christian, pretty much anything other than Straight White Men" and in to "Just put someone on the damn pages who doesn't look like Chris Evans, I don't care how shitty it is, just do it" territory.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Whizbang » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:07 pm UTC

In a Spiderman book I read (one of the sinister six ones. I think it was this one.), Spiderman goes to Captain America for advice. Cap is doing his daily workout in a battle simulator. Spiderman watches in wonder as Cap dodges and deflects the hundreds of flying items, all lethal. Spiderman thinks to himself that the exercise would be survivable for him (Spiderman), but not something he'd do willingly. And the fact that Spiderman should be much, much stronger, faster, and more agile than Cap is a testament to Cap's training and skill. It just goes to show that strength isn't everything and that Captain America can fight with the big boys, even if he couldn't win an arm wrestle.

Though who knows if this book was canon or not.

Re: Thor Girl

I don't think they are calling her "Thor Girl", so the complainers of the name are just being silly. The article I read said she is just "Thor". I never read the comics, but this seems acceptable to me. Whatever her origin or what her name was to begin with, she has the hammer and both honors the name of Thor by taking it as well as uses it's prestige to help overcome people thinking she is just a pushover in an unrealistic chest plate.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby mosc » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:22 pm UTC

This doesn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if black captain peeled his face off revealing he was actually a female Thor in disguise. It's a comic. The imagination of us mere readers seems grossly insufficient to describe just how weird they can get.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:25 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Relative to the other forms of Media, comics are so incredibly behind in their representation of women and minorities that anything is better than the status quo. We're long past "Have well-written women, nonwhite, non-Christian, pretty much anything other than Straight White Men" and in to "Just put someone on the damn pages who doesn't look like Chris Evans, I don't care how shitty it is, just do it" territory.
I don't think that's entirely fair; from the get go, X-Men had non-white non-Christian cast members.

Actually, maybe it wasn't from the get go, but it was at least as early as the 70's.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Prefanity » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:33 pm UTC

And Doc Ock was Spider-Man up until a few months ago. Whatever.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:42 pm UTC

X-Men were always gay though. I mean, in terms of their origin. They discovered they were "mutants" at puberty, they hid and tried to "pass" among their "normal" classmates, their real enemies were never Magneto's group but arch-conservative Christians who wanted to either kill them all or use some sort of "reparative therapy" on them, they started dying of AIDS before it passed to non mutants, etc. Other minority issues were added in there as well, such as Malcolm X/Magneto vs Dr King/Xavier, angry genocide survivors, etc.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby mosc » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:55 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:X-Men were always gay though. I mean, in terms of their origin. They discovered they were "mutants" at puberty, they hid and tried to "pass" among their "normal" classmates, their real enemies were never Magneto's group but arch-conservative Christians who wanted to either kill them all or use some sort of "reparative therapy" on them, they started dying of AIDS before it passed to non mutants, etc. Other minority issues were added in there as well, such as Malcolm X/Magneto vs Dr King/Xavier, angry genocide survivors, etc.

Minority in general I would say. I have a hard time stretching that to Gay. I think the mutant/non-mutant thing was orignally equal parts superhero/non-superhero and an american minority/majority cultural thing. The 70s x-men is trying to be very multicultural in a very overt way. I'm sorry but that reads a little tau of poo to me.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Tirian » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:14 pm UTC

Steve Rogers passing on the mantle of Captain America? The last time I was this excited about Marvel comic news is when Steve Rogers died in front of a zillion witnesses seven years ago. Why does responsible journalism continue to pander to these clearly temporary marketing gimmicks?

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:22 pm UTC

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:27 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Isn't the female version of Thor just Thora?

I was going to say "Thyri" but evidently that means "protected by Thor". If this is to be believed Thora will be showing up on Vikings in a season or two.


According to a friend in Iceland, Icelandic nicknames ending in i are usually masculine (Icelandic's pretty conservative so no reason to think this has changed since ON). Þóra (Thora) would indeed be the feminine nominative form you'd expect just by swapping the masculine ending of Þórr (Thor) with a feminine one.

Of course, convention is to usually drop the nominative endings in English (hence Midgard not Miðgarðr) making both masculine and feminine Þór (Thor). Oh wait, that's what they're calling her.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby AngrySquirrel » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:04 pm UTC

As a self-proclaimed expert on the subject of "Thor". He is, after all, based on my brother Tor, I can say I've checked with the original source and she's totes okay with it. Just as long as she still gets to be called "Mighty Thor" and gets to keep the theme song.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:09 pm UTC

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby Crissa » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:48 pm UTC

I'm okay with the heroes being followed up by other heroes.

I'm annoyed at the way Marvel is doing it, though. 'Diversity!' What about all the non-white characters you wrote before?

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby sam_i_am » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:59 pm UTC

Fancy wrote:So they will be making a black captain america, completely trashing the original story.

And a female thor. Thor is a Scandinavian MALE name. This is gonna be great.

Anyone want to chip in and start a discussion or just let this die?



Some people don't know this but the Thor character wasn't actually invented by marvel. (I'm serious. People who didn't know that exist. I've met some)

If they make Thor female, it would probably be a little more difficult to make it tie in as well with Norse mythology.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:37 pm UTC

Marvel've had a whole thing that in their universe, Mjolnir decides who Thor is based on whoever's worthy (remember that line in the first thor film "he who holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall have the power of thor") for a while and have had plenty of other people picking up the hammer.

Furthermore they don't care that much about lining up with the original mythology; loki's gender-bending a testicle-to-goat-tying is pretty much absent as is the conflict in Odin of him being an aspirational figure despite being guilty of ergi through his practice seiðr. Having a female Asgardian ásynja step in for Thor instead of a random human is barely even a change from earlier canon and so not really any new deviation from Norse myth anyway.
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:40 pm UTC

sam_i_am wrote:
Fancy wrote:So they will be making a black captain america, completely trashing the original story.

And a female thor. Thor is a Scandinavian MALE name. This is gonna be great.

Anyone want to chip in and start a discussion or just let this die?



Some people don't know this but the Thor character wasn't actually invented by marvel. (I'm serious. People who didn't know that exist. I've met some)

If they make Thor female, it would probably be a little more difficult to make it tie in as well with Norse mythology.
Ah, so the frog thing is part of the Eddas?
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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby morriswalters » Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:49 pm UTC

I'm so glad I read Manga.

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Re: [WARNING: OPINION WITHIN] Black captain america, female

Postby KnightExemplar » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:21 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:I'm so glad I read Manga.


I know right? For some reason, I'm perfectly cool with Saber, King Aurtura Pendragon (in a H-harem nonetheless) but seeing Thor go the other way just rubs me the wrong way.

SecondTalon wrote:
KnightExemplar wrote:Perhaps, but it reeks of blatantly lazy female characters like Supergirl and whatever. I do like Batgirl / Cassandra Cain and Spidergirl... these actually a decent story. But overall, female counterparts to male superheroes are just done lazily.

Its one thing to make a new female all-star character. IE: Wonder Woman. Its another thing to just lazily make a character into a female, especially when drawing from source material (Norse Mythology) that has plenty of strong females to choose from.

See again - where were you in 2008? Or earlier?

Basically, I'm saying that this is so incredibly common in comics and has been done long enough that complaining about it is kinda like complaining about the musical instrument strike in horror films when something nonthreatening happens to a character early in a film.

Find a new complaint.


Relative to the other forms of Media, comics are so incredibly behind in their representation of women and minorities that anything is better than the status quo. We're long past "Have well-written women, nonwhite, non-Christian, pretty much anything other than Straight White Men" and in to "Just put someone on the damn pages who doesn't look like Chris Evans, I don't care how shitty it is, just do it" territory.


I don't think we have the same perspective. There are plenty of female comic book heroines. Supergirl, Powergirl, Spidergirl, Batgirl, Hit-Girl, Empowered, Roxy Spaulding and Sarah Rainmaker (Gen13), Sara Pezzini (Witchblade).

Here's the problem... the majority of them, look like this:

Spoiler:
Image

Image

Image


See the problem? The huge majority of the time, female comic book heroines are just crappily written tits-and-ass fanservice for the overwhelmingly male audience. It sucks especially because the industry more or less believes that comics aren't for women to read.

Compare that to... say... the upcoming Ninja Pizza Girl game. Or Portal / Portal2's famous characters Chell and GladOS. Characters that are more than just "character with tits". You're right, Video Games and other media are far far ahead of comic books in this regards. But its not due to the number of female characters... its due to the generally deeper depth of female characters in other media. Good female characters exist of course. (Granny Goodness in DC is one of the best villains for example). But characters like Granny Goodness are rare.

Now maybe Fem-Thor is going to be one of the few female characters that actually will be half-decent... but as has been pointed out in this thread... probably not. She's probably going to be a temporary gig while "Real Thor" gets his redemption arc in a couple of months.

I will concede however... the Female-Thor concept art is damn good right now and gives me a glimmer of hope.
Last edited by KnightExemplar on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:17 am UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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