Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crime

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Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crime

Postby EMTP » Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:39 am UTC

On Tuesday Craig Stephen Hicks, a virulently anti-religious atheist and gun owner [1] murdered three of his neighbors, invading their homes and shooting them in the head. The motive is unknown but for obvious reasons, religious bigotry is one much-discussed possibility. Mr Hicks also was known for complaining about his neighbors' parking while menacing them with guns; the parking dispute is another possible motive (and or course the motives may be mixed.)

As always seems to be the case when a white man commits mass murder, mental illness has also been floated as a cause.

I think that we will hear a lot more about this story, partly because the killer seems to have been almost comically evil and scary:
Craig Stephen Hicks was feared by his neighbors. He obsessed over parking spaces and always appeared angry. He used to watch a movie about a man who goes on a shooting rampage over and over again. His ex-wife said he found the film hilarious.


While his victims, on the other hand, come across as pretty amazing human beings:

Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, a Palestinian-American, graduated from North Carolina State University in human biology and wanted to be a dentist. She and her mother last year collected dental supplies from the Muslim community in Raleigh and delivered them to the Turkey-Syria border for Syria's victims of war, Nida Allam, one of Mohammad Abu-Salha’s closest friends, told Al Jazeera.

. . .

Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha studied architecture and environmental design at North Carolina State University in Raleigh. “I always thought she was the coolest girl because she’s always posting pictures of her project that she was doing,” Allam said.

On Jan. 29, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha won the university’s weekly #ThinkAndDo competition for a time-lapse video capturing 3-D model making.

Aya Zouhri, 22, a childhood friend of Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha’s, told Al Jazeera that she “had the kindest soul.”

When the two were in third grade, they made BFF bracelets together and promised each other they “be best friends forever” and “go to each other’s weddings and be neighbors,” Zouhri said.

“I still have the BFF necklace,” she said. “I don’t know how to come to terms with that.”

Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha participated in fundraisers for Palestinian relief and volunteered with Global Deaf Muslims, a nonprofit dedicated to accommodating the deaf in mosques and other Islamic organizations.

Islamic Relief, the largest Muslim charity organization in the U.S., said in a statement that the three victims were “dedicated to humanitarian causes and volunteered regularly with humanitarian organizations, including Islamic Relief USA.”


This case certainly has the potential to be used as a cudgel in a variety of hot-button issues, from atheism to Islamophobia to gun control and mental illness. There doesn't seem to be enough information to draw a lot of firm conclusions as yet, but even when and if there is, I hope we can talk about this tragedy with an attitude of mutual respect and respect for the dead.


-----------------------------
1.
Mr. Hicks’s Facebook page suggests that he has a strong interest in atheism and is contemptuous of religion; the page is filled with posts and cartoons mocking the intelligence of people who believe in the Bible. His anger appeared to be aimed primarily at Christians — in fact, in 2010 he decried as hypocritical opposition by Christians to a much-debated proposal for a mosque to be built near ground zero in Manhattan.

He also indicated that he was proud of owning a weapon: Last month, he posted an image of a gun on a scale with the words, “Yes, that is 1 pound 5.1 ounces for my loaded 38 revolver, its holster, and five extra rounds in a speedloader.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/ch ... tml?ref=us
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby HungryHobo » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:33 pm UTC

EMTP wrote:
He used to watch a movie about a man who goes on a shooting rampage over and over again. His ex-wife said he found the film hilarious.


I have very little to add about the specific case... other than when I see things described like this it sets off alarm bells for me. As in cutting carefully around anything which might humanise someone.

from a quick search, other articled were willing to name the film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106856/

which is a dark comedy.

They seem to be trying really hard to push the movie horror hate-monster angle when it really does sound more like a neighbor dispute: a context in which people murdering each other over 2 inches of garden or rock music at 3am is pretty common.

Under "political views," Hicks expressed libertarian leanings, writing, "I don't care about parties, just each individual and the rights of such in the Constitution! Some call me a gun toting Liberal, others call me an open-minded Conservative."

This libertarianism is reflected in his other Facebook posts, which identify him as a supporter of LGBT equality and a handgun enthusiast.


also, some articles link to his amazon wishlist:
http://www.amazon.com/wishlist/3M32SCK377YO6

the anti-videogame nuts are gonna get in on this as well by the look of it.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/02/ ... ro-mosque/

there are a couple of instances in which he seems to implicitly defend Islam, there’s a post from around the time when they wanted to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York where he calls out conservative critics who didn’t want the plan to go forward saying, ‘hey, you guys are being hypocrites. If you are allowed your freedom of worship, Muslims should be allowed, too.’ He also calls out conservatives who made–spread rumors about President Obama being a Muslim. He said, ‘so what if he is Muslim? It’s okay if we have a Muslim president.’ So, his views against religion are kind of, very anti-religious, but nothing specifically against Islam,


Hicks’ most vehement defense of Islam came on August 30 of 2010. Hicks posted an article about a billboard put up by the Freedom from Religion Foundation being vandalized, with the comment “Once again, Christians have to push their beliefs on the rest of the world(much [sic] less our country which is against the law)!! I don’t believe in Christianity at all, but I would never vandalize anything of theirs. Course neither would a Muslim, makes a person wonder which is more of a peaceful religion I believe!” After one of his friends (whose name has been redacted in the screenshot) asked Hicks if he considered the destruction of the World Trade Center on 9/11 to be “vandalism,” Hicks responded “Come on now [name omitted], you of all people are smart enough to know that those were extremists. They were not practicing Islam any more than Jim Jones and David Koresh practiced Christianity.”
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby poochyena » Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:40 pm UTC

I hate people that are acting like this is some hate crime, and a terrorist attack on Muslims.. when there is no evidence of that.

also, people killing others over a parking space isnt unsual
http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2013 ... _25_y.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-jersey- ... g-dispute/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... space.html

People that try to turn everything around to say its a hate crime reminds me of an onion post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOHABYhZ7a8

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Adam H » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:00 pm UTC

We'll never know his motivations, but they are almost certainly a complex mix of "because they are Muslim" as well as "because they annoyed him" and "because something is wrong with his brain".

As for analyzing his facebook posts and whatnot, what he says when he's not in the middle of executing muslims doesn't tell us a whole lot about his thought processes when he's in the middle of executing muslims, IMO.

EMTP wrote:As always seems to be the case when a white man commits mass murder, mental illness has also been floated as a cause.
It seems to me that mental illness is (appropriately) brought up every time anyone commits mass murder.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby EMTP » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:16 pm UTC

I have very little to add about the specific case... other than when I see things described like this it sets off alarm bells for me. As in cutting carefully around anything which might humanise someone.


Actually the specific article quoted named the movie and provided more background. The "cutting carefully" is part of formulating the lede of a news story. Stuff gets introduced briefly and elaborated on later, as happened here:

Hicks was known for his temper and confrontational behavior. His ex-wife, Cynthia Hurley, who divorced Hicks about 17 years ago, said his favorite film was “Falling Down,” in which a disgruntled and unemployed defense industry worker played by Michael Douglas goes on a shooting rampage.

“That always freaked me out,” Hurley told the Associated Press. “He watched it incessantly. He thought it was hilarious. He had no compassion at all.”


poochyena wrote:I hate people that are acting like this is some hate crime, and a terrorist attack on Muslims.. when there is no evidence of that.


We have an outspoken anti-religious bigot who murdered three members of America's most unpopular religion in cold blood, shooting them in the head. Sure, maybe it was all about parking. Sometimes people are shot over parking. And sometimes people are murdered by bigots. There will be lots of opportunities to seek more information about the motive or, which seems more likely, the various motives.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:26 pm UTC

Atheist are more hated than Muslims.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby sevenperforce » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:30 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Atheist are more hated than Muslims.

Should atheism be considered a religion if people who believe atheism is a religion kill atheists because of this belief?

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Dauric » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:36 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Atheist are more hated than Muslims.

The Pew Research Paper cited above has it the other way around, though they're close.

Too much knee-jerk reaction in calling it a hate crime though. "The victims were Muslim, so that's clearly why the White Atheist shot them all." It strikes me that calling any violence against any minority group a 'Hate Crime' us a trendy buzzword that gets an easy emotional response, and emotional responses sell better than rational restraint.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby EMTP » Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:47 pm UTC

sevenperforce wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Atheist are more hated than Muslims.

Should atheism be considered a religion if people who believe atheism is a religion kill atheists because of this belief?


Not a religion, but perhaps a belief system, at least for some of the people who identify as atheists. I've encountered a lot of atheists recently who assert that they cannot be criticized for what they believe because to be an atheist is simply not to believe in the existence of deities. But while that may describe some atheists, many of the atheists I've spoken with or read about have a lot of positive beliefs, as Mr Hicks did. (One of the popular beliefs, which Mr Hicks exemplified, is the belief that religion is stupid and evil.) And like any belief, atheism can be used to motivate and to justify fanaticism and bigotry.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:31 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Atheist are more hated than Muslims.


Well, in surveys, more people respond that they wouldn't want to have anything to do with Atheists in x circumstances. That's interesting, but isn't the same as hatred. It's showing you the breadth of a sentiment, not the depth of it. Avoidance is a lower level of dislike than overt hostility.

Dauric wrote:Too much knee-jerk reaction in calling it a hate crime though. "The victims were Muslim, so that's clearly why the White Atheist shot them all." It strikes me that calling any violence against any minority group a 'Hate Crime' us a trendy buzzword that gets an easy emotional response, and emotional responses sell better than rational restraint.


It is. But if you have previously anti-Muslim hatred demonstrated, it might be a fair assessment. So, if that's the case, then yeah, a certain degree of "this is probable" is rational. I don't yet know enough about it to say if that is the case or not.

I do imagine that everyone is going to try to use this as a cudgel in the media against this group or that. Videogames drove him to violence or whatever, entirely ignoring any sort of statistical validity. It's common.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby EMTP » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:09 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I do imagine that everyone is going to try to use this as a cudgel in the media against this group or that. Videogames drove him to violence or whatever, entirely ignoring any sort of statistical validity. It's common.


Yes, and Mr Hicks in particular is going to present a target-rich environment, considering only what we know so far, which includes:

* He is a political liberal and The Affordable Care Act supporter
* He is an angry, outspoken white man who was fond of arguing about parking whilst open carrying
* He is a gun owner
* He is an anti-religious atheist

Given that he survived and will go on trial, I would expect we are going to learn more about his motives and the chain of events that led to this shooting.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby cphite » Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:21 pm UTC

EMTP wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I do imagine that everyone is going to try to use this as a cudgel in the media against this group or that. Videogames drove him to violence or whatever, entirely ignoring any sort of statistical validity. It's common.


Yes, and Mr Hicks in particular is going to present a target-rich environment, considering only what we know so far, which includes:

* He is a political liberal and The Affordable Care Act supporter
* He is an angry, outspoken white man who was fond of arguing about parking whilst open carrying
* He is a gun owner
* He is an anti-religious atheist

Given that he survived and will go on trial, I would expect we are going to learn more about his motives and the chain of events that led to this shooting.


Based on what little I've read about the shooter and the shooting, it sounds more like a case of him being an asshole than any sort of hate crime.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby jestingrabbit » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:53 am UTC

HungryHobo wrote:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106856/

which is a dark comedy.


Which I guess is why the imdb has it filed under crime, drama, and thriller. I don't really remember anything to laugh about, at all.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby HungryHobo » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:08 am UTC


Which I guess is why the imdb has it filed under crime, drama, and thriller. I don't really remember anything to laugh about, at all.

Both the wiki and the reviews talk a lot about the gallows humor and describe it as a dark comedy. Which matches my memory of it. It's not the normal american in your face clown humor but it's filled with dark sad deadpan humor .
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Paul in Saudi » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:26 pm UTC

Something wrong about arguing as to the guy's motives. They need to lock him up and melt the key. I do not feel a lot of need to understand his reasoning in any but the most clinical sense.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:37 pm UTC

Yeah but he's become just a political pawn in the game of "Bash da US". The high priest President of Turkey was whining about how Obama said nothing about it at first. Unless this actually was a hate crime, what makes this any more horrible than any of the other 14,000 murders a year in the US?

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Derek » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:13 pm UTC

EMTP wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:I do imagine that everyone is going to try to use this as a cudgel in the media against this group or that. Videogames drove him to violence or whatever, entirely ignoring any sort of statistical validity. It's common.


Yes, and Mr Hicks in particular is going to present a target-rich environment, considering only what we know so far, which includes:

* He is a political liberal and The Affordable Care Act supporter
* He is an angry, outspoken white man who was fond of arguing about parking whilst open carrying
* He is a gun owner
* He is an anti-religious atheist

Given that he survived and will go on trial, I would expect we are going to learn more about his motives and the chain of events that led to this shooting.

Oh wow, the media is going to love this guy. The left can complain about him being a gun owner and anti-Muslim, the right can complain about him being atheist, liberal, and supporting The Affordable Care Act. He's like the perfect target for the media.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Feb 14, 2015 8:23 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Unless this actually was a hate crime, what makes this any more horrible than any of the other 14,000 murders a year in the US?
Even without the hate crime angle, most of those other murders aren't execution-style killings of a family in their own home.

Edit: And it looks like nobody's going to use him to villainize anyone, because they're too busy lionizing him.
[the image I had posted here turns out to have been fake, so it's been removed]

Even if he didn't commit a hate crime per se, the media's bias is pretty clear when this is how they paint the cold-blooded murderer of three innocent people compared to how they portray people of color even when they're the victims of crimes.
Last edited by gmalivuk on Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:33 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby morriswalters » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:14 am UTC

You should not read CNN. The media is in the business of making money. Full stop. Expecting different is in and of itself a sign of something. Read foreign sites. For instance Chinese sites or the BBC.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:26 am UTC

If I want to look at US media bias, why the hell would I look at Chinese or British news sites?
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby EMTP » Sun Feb 15, 2015 2:53 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Unless this actually was a hate crime, what makes this any more horrible than any of the other 14,000 murders a year in the US?
Even without the hate crime angle, most of those other murders aren't execution-style killings of a family in their own home.

Edit: And it looks like nobody's going to use him to villainize anyone, because they're too busy lionizing him.
Image

Even if he didn't commit a hate crime per se, the media's bias is pretty clear when this is how they paint the cold-blooded murderer of three innocent people compared to how they portray people of color even when they're the victims of crimes.


What touches that screenshot into immortality is the spelling: "in unlikeley light."

Sort of gives you everything wrong with modern journalism in one go, doesn't it?
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby jestingrabbit » Sun Feb 15, 2015 3:02 am UTC

HungryHobo wrote:

Which I guess is why the imdb has it filed under crime, drama, and thriller. I don't really remember anything to laugh about, at all.

Both the wiki and the reviews talk a lot about the gallows humor and describe it as a dark comedy. Which matches my memory of it. It's not the normal american in your face clown humor but it's filled with dark sad deadpan humor .


On WP, the word comedy appears twice, in two quotes,

Tasha Robinson wrote:It’s seemingly meant as a sort of dark comedy about the petty annoyances of life, and how they can accumulate and become so maddening that over-the-top cathartic violence seems like the only satisfying option. But Douglas’ violent reaction to his surroundings, and the way the film treats virtually everyone around him as worthless, and presents his violence as the comedic payoff, turns it into a tone-deaf, self-pitying lament about the terrible persecution facing the oppressed majority in an era of Basic Human Decency and increasing multiculturalism. In its ugly, skewed world, almost everyone but this madman is dumb, incompetent, and offensive, and his only possible solution is to wipe a few of these losers off the face of the earth, then die. It’s a profoundly hateful film disguised alternately (and erratically) as either tragedy or humor.

James Berardinelli wrote:Falling Down is replete with gallows humor, almost to the point where it could be classified as a 'black comedy.


Neither of those claim that it is a dark or black comedy. These are also the only uses of the word humor. Now, Berardinelli perhaps broadly agrees with you, but saying that Falling Down is a dark comedy like its an uncontroversial fact is wrong. It perhaps can be seen that way, but a lot of people see it as a movie where a man "unconsciously follows scripts that he may have learned from the movies, or on the news, where other frustrated misfits vent their rage on innocent bystanders." This seems the most charitable interpretation of what Hicks has done to the Abu-Salha family, so many of us find him watching that movie a lot pretty creepy.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Puppyclaws » Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:09 am UTC

poochyena wrote:I hate people that are acting like this is some hate crime, and a terrorist attack on Muslims.. when there is no evidence of that.


There is a ton of evidence for that. Circumstantial and not definitive perhaps, but it's not a case of "no evidence" for it.

People that try to turn everything around to say its a hate crime reminds me of an onion post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOHABYhZ7a8


The irony of this being a part of your post is pretty wonderful.

gmalivuk wrote:Even if he didn't commit a hate crime per se, the media's bias is pretty clear when this is how they paint the cold-blooded murderer of three innocent people compared to how they portray people of color even when they're the victims of crimes.


I would love them to finish the rescuing of puppies with a piece about how he was "no angel." Somehow I doubt that they did.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby HungryHobo » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:40 am UTC

One dimentional people are much easier for the media, someone who spends years obsessing and writing a set of manifestos blaming [race] or [religion] while being horrible to everyone and then go and murder lots of people... they're easy.

Someone who is a bit of a dick, does some good things, some bad, holds some opinions that are utterly reasonable and some bad and then does something really horrible and unreasonable... that's more awkward for the media because if you mention anything about anything they ever did that wasn't evil or was just human you get accused of "siding" with the person.

People like ultra simplified characterchures of their villians because they like simple view of the world where it's easy to spot the people who are going to do horrible things.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby morriswalters » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:58 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:If I want to look at US media bias, why the hell would I look at Chinese or British news sites?
Because the bias will be different in non US media. It would seem if you want to talk about bias you might want to look at the same subject through the eyes of someone with a different bias. For contrast.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:05 pm UTC

All human beings are complex, and yet commercial media seems to consistently find the good complexities in white perpetrators and victims alike, while they look to dig up additional dirt on black perpetrators and victims alike.

And morriswalters, I'm talking about commercial media bias here in America, where this thing happened. So I'm still not sure what you expect me to get out of Chinese state-run media.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:13 pm UTC

I think the bigger question is whether the media has the unwritten rule "Black killer = Thug out to get you, White killer = complex and misunderstood bullying victim" because:

1) That's what the consumers of the media want
2) That's what the customers* of the media want
3) That's what the producers of the media want
4) All/multiple of the above

*As much as I think Noam Chomsky usually has his head up his ass outside of Linguistics, he's right when he points out that the real customers of mass media are the people who purchase advertising space. You? You're the product; your attention is sold to the advertisers. So GM and Ford might advertise on, say, CNN, in the hopes that it'll increase car sales, but they might ALSO advertise on CNN so that they can pull those adverts if CNN ever makes them look bad.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby morriswalters » Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:52 pm UTC

I don't expect you to get anything from it, but one way to investigate bias is to look at it from outside the box. Given the most expansive view of media in America and assuming bias in all of it, then external sources should read differently. For instance China isn't white. It isn't awash in inherent cultural biases related to being white in America. Feel free to not feel that way.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Puppyclaws » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:04 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I think the bigger question is whether the media has the unwritten rule "Black killer = Thug out to get you, White killer = complex and misunderstood bullying victim" because:

1) That's what the consumers of the media want
2) That's what the customers* of the media want
3) That's what the producers of the media want
4) All/multiple of the above
[/size]


I think it's more like 5) Unexamined cultural biases which go completely unchecked.

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CorruptUser
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:08 pm UTC

"People being stupid" is only the default assumption when it's a few times. Not when it's over the course of decades. What, not a single person who worked in a newsroom ever noticed the trend?

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby Lucrece » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:06 am UTC

Belial wrote:That's charming, Nancy, but all I hear when you talk is a bunch of yippy dog sounds.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby jestingrabbit » Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:45 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNT0H8L54Cg


You know, some actions have more complicated motivations than one thing, and sometimes people lie about and misrepresent their motivations. But I guess that's very very weak thinking.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby morriswalters » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:03 pm UTC

Assume for a moment that what is implied in the video is true. ISIS says they are Muslim therefore Islam is responsible for ISIS. Where does that lead you?

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby leady » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:16 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I think the bigger question is whether the media has the unwritten rule "Black killer = Thug out to get you, White killer = complex and misunderstood bullying victim" because:

1) That's what the consumers of the media want
2) That's what the customers* of the media want
3) That's what the producers of the media want
4) All/multiple of the above


or

5) reporting is in proportion to the types of murder? because there are a lot of real estate murders that affect one demographic...

what would be interesting to analyse is whether the mundane murders (jealousy, personal revenge outside of gangs) in the black community are reported less often than they should be

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CorruptUser
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:42 pm UTC

No, Gmal is right in that when a white kid murders a bunch of people he is usually humanized, but a black kid does it and he is vilified. Same for victims. Trayvon "deserved" it because he wore a friggen hoodie.

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby leady » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:52 pm UTC

I think thats a massive conflation that needs to be challenged (not least the victim vs perp mixing)

You need to compare like with like to reach that conclusion, i'm not sure but I doubt that the Russian and armenian mobsters in the states are humanised because of their race. I suspect their gang violence is reported on in a highly similar vein.

What I think you are seeing and calling out is that the uncommon demands explanation effect. To take a random hypothetical, a east asian going on an anti-semtic spree killing will get indepth coverage of their mental state than "man goes into store with gun and shoots the teller when he reaches under the counter". Invariably such an analysis will appear at least a bit sympathetic to the perp. What you are seeing in the media is a saturation of the latter vs the former. In gang violence / robbery gone wrong the key motives are understood so there is no story (or rather no news...) and so its rare that people dig deeper to find out what most sensible people will already know (poverty, violence throughout childhood, single parent, school drop out etc etc)

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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:16 pm UTC

leady wrote:You need to compare like with like to reach that conclusion

CorruptUser wrote:when a white kid murders a bunch of people he is usually humanized, but a black kid does it and he is vilified.


How is that not "like with like"?
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:26 pm UTC

I can see why you'd be pissed at that gmalivuk.

But I heard this incident through the radio, and they were pretty clear that this guy:
1. Killed a family over a parking incident
2. "Executioner style".

The atheist and anti-muslim rants were talked about in the news story as well. I'd bet my local news was more on the "criticizing atheists" slant, if I wanted to be a bit critical. I can't speak for CNN (wasn't watching during this incident), but I don't necessarily think that my local news channel were "lionizing" the guy. then again, I typically listen to the radio, so I didn't know that the perpetrator was white till I saw your screenshots.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:43 pm UTC

I'm not saying they completely neglect to mention what crime was committed. I'm saying that they routinely go out of their way to dig up unrelated dirt on black people, and unrelated nice things to say about white people, whether they're the victims or the perpetrators. So we heard far more about Tamir Rice's father's run-ins with the law than we did about Darren Wilson's mother's crimes, for example.
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Re: Chapel Hill Muslim family murdered in possible hate crim

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:49 pm UTC

When Emmit Till was tortured to death for hitting on a white woman, the media found out that his father had been executed for rape (the Till's didn't know that until the news found out), implying acorns, trees and falling from. And that was a victim.


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