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Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:31 pm UTC
by Thesh
Tyndmyr wrote:and look at how police treat white protestors, there's no shortage of examples of causal police violence towards protestors that do not actually pose a threat.


Any examples of police violence against unarmed right-wing protestors?

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:54 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
Sure.

That said, I'll cop to them being a *lot* rarer. I have to search a lot more and look further back. Plus the first instance I found, the guy who got arrested definitely deserved it, despite being unarmed(if you're violent to start with, well, yeah, the cops will get violent back). So, not *exactly* the same thing, yknow?

It seems as if the following are all true:
1. Conservatives protest less.
2. Liberals are far less likely to be armed in general, particularly while protesting.
3. Not a lot of conservative protests are characterized by rioting or looting. I mean, these exist too, but like the violence thing, it's hard to find.

There's a lot more flag waving, proud speechifying, stuff like that. Things that a cop likely sees as less threatening.

That said, not every protest is clearly right or left wing, either. The Baltimore protests regarding police brutality weren't strictly along partisan lines. Essentially both those in charge and those protesting were mostly liberal, it was far more about the brutality than about partisanship.

This is all in addition to the anti-minority bias noted earlier. That seems to be in force even when it is a mostly non-partisan protest.

People on the far right would probably blame this on media coverage differences. Now, while the media *does* love to ignore conservative protests, I think it's love of blood is even stronger, so this doesn't quite explain it. If a ton of Trump supporters were being beaten down, they'd show it on live TV and embrace the ratings. And violent incidents that the conservative protestors complain about do seem to be generally older. So, you'll have people on the right talking about Pouillon, while the left is talking about last week.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:42 pm UTC
by sardia
What about police not using violence against armed protestors that are non white? Closest I can think of is Malcolm X, and the police didn't appreciate his group say all.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:43 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
sardia wrote:What about police not using violence against armed protestors that are non white? Closest I can think of is Malcolm X, and the police didn't appreciate his group say all.


You can find individuals. There's a clear trend of that. But against organized, mass armed?

Right now, that strategy does not seem popular among minorities. Understandable, given the reaction police have towards them on an individual level if they even *suspect* they are armed.

There *are* plenty of open carry folks that are minorities, and they do indeed have their own protests sometimes. They do fine. No violence at all. However, that is definitely a right wing protest. So, there's a difference there if you break it down by partisan lines.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:23 am UTC
by morriswalters
Thesh wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:and look at how police treat white protestors, there's no shortage of examples of causal police violence towards protestors that do not actually pose a threat.


Any examples of police violence against unarmed right-wing protestors?
Does it have to be right wing? Right wing protestors are pretty rare. Like invisible more or less. I suppose you could call the busing riots in Louisville in 75 right wing. That got really ugly.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:28 am UTC
by Tyndmyr
Yeah, that reasonably counts...but it's super far back. I feel like if we have to go back 4 decades for an example...sure, it's a specific contradiction, but it makes the general point decently well.

In general, it does seem like unarmed protestors who get beat down by police are almost exclusively left-wing.

The right does protest sometimes. There are locations where anti-abortion protestors ceaselessly meet, year in and year out. Giant rallies of thousands of people for gun rights are actually pretty routine. They don't even attract much media attention. Local news, at best. Those are definitely protests. But they don't go the same way as the Standing Rock thing apparently is. You can easily find some near you if you'd like to check them out personally.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:43 am UTC
by CorruptUser
Aren't the tea party nutjobs right wing? So too with any religious fanatics staging a protest.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 12:45 am UTC
by Tyndmyr
Tea Party is right wing, sure.

I think it's fair to say that conservatives protest less, but they still protest a decent amount. That factor alone isn't enough to explain the delta.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:29 am UTC
by CorruptUser
They also tend to be older, and therefore less likely to be seen as a threat.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:39 am UTC
by Thesh
I think it's also that right-wing protestors generally support the existing power structures, at least in the US.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:24 pm UTC
by sardia
Thesh wrote:I think it's also that right-wing protestors generally support the existing power structures, at least in the US.

That ignores the times when they aren't in power. For example, states rights are a big thing for conservatives... Until they lose power in the state, then the federal government takes priority. People want their shit, principles be damned. You can post hoc rationalize a principle.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:11 pm UTC
by Thesh
I don't think that's really accurate. If you look at, for example, the Tea Party they are generally anti-welfare, anti-taxes, while they favor pretty much everything that gives power to those in power, and are against any constraints on that power. Military, police, corporations; all of the maintainers of the status quo benefit from tea party policies, while the disenfranchised get fucked over; the result of this is that when the disenfranchised protest, they are angry about the power structures, and when anti-government conservatives protest they are really angry about their own personal issue like taxes, not the system overall (except for when they are protesting liberals/socialists/whatever their fear of the day is), and, since police are generally conservatives and tend to be authoritarian, they tend to react with disproportionate levels of hostility against leftists who threaten the power structure.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:21 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
Thesh wrote:I think it's also that right-wing protestors generally support the existing power structures, at least in the US.


To an extent, yeah. I mean, sure, the Bundy folks have some obvious conflict with authority going on, but *most* of these protests are protesting specific laws, not really opposed directly to authority. Every firearm protest I've been to has been directly focused around specific laws, and there's a deliberate plan of action. It's not railing against authority...frequently, notable members of the legislature and what not are invited to speak. They're not seen as the problem at all.

Whereas, say, the anti-Iraq war protests I took part in were a clusterfuck on the organizational level. Oh, sure, they got people out there, with signs in hand and what not, but there was no coherent plan beyond that. Get out, stand with signs, shout or whatever...but it's a very different vibe.

Now, granted, this is anecdotal evidence, but glancing around at media coverage, it does seem to be something of a trend.

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:52 am UTC
by eran_rathan
Thesh wrote:I don't think that's really accurate. If you look at, for example, the Tea Party they are generally anti-welfare, anti-taxes, while they favor pretty much everything that gives power to those in power, and are against any constraints on that power. Military, police, corporations; all of the maintainers of the status quo benefit from tea party policies, while the disenfranchised get fucked over; the result of this is that when the disenfranchised protest, they are angry about the power structures, and when anti-government conservatives protest they are really angry about their own personal issue like taxes, not the system overall (except for when they are protesting liberals/socialists/whatever their fear of the day is), and, since police are generally conservatives and tend to be authoritarian, they tend to react with disproportionate levels of hostility against leftists who threaten the power structure.


Which is funny, considering that many Tea Party supporters are those who are the disenfranchised and rely on government subsidy to survive...

Re: Bundyite militia seizes federal building

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:26 pm UTC
by Tyndmyr
eran_rathan wrote:Which is funny, considering that many Tea Party supporters are those who are the disenfranchised and rely on government subsidy to survive...


*shrug* They're dissatisfied with this state of affairs, of course.