British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:41 pm UTC

They want to own the full set.

elasto
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby elasto » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:41 am UTC

The EU is set to inflict a double humiliation on Theresa May, stripping Britain of its European agencies within weeks, while formally rejecting the prime minister’s calls for early trade talks.

A beauty contest between member states who want the European banking and medicine agencies, currently located in London, will begin within two weeks, with selection criteria to be unveiled by the president of the European council, Donald Tusk.

The European Banking Authority and the European Medicines Agency employ about 1,000 people, many of them British, and provide a hub for businesses in the UK.

Meanwhile, it has emerged that Britain failed to secure the backing of any of the 27 countries for its case that trade talks should start early in the two years of negotiations allowed by article 50 of the Lisbon treaty. The position will be announced at a Brussels summit on 29 April.

Senior EU sources claimed that Britain’s aggressive approach to the talks, including threats of becoming a low-tax, low-regulation state unless it was given a good deal, had backfired. “However realistic the threats were, or not, they were noticed,” one senior EU source said. “The future prosperity of the single market was challenged. That had an impact – it pushed people together.”

Another senior diplomat said initial sympathy with Britain had fallen away in many capitals, due to the approach of Theresa May’s government. “Of course, we want to protect trade with Britain, but maintaining the single market, keeping trade flowing there, is the priority, and so we will work through [the EU’s chief negotiator] Michel Barnier,” the source said. “Britain used to be pragmatic. That doesn’t seem to be the case any more, and we need to protect our interests.”


link

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5858
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby sardia » Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:30 pm UTC

Its odd, I haven't actually seen much Brexit stuff in the news anymore since May announced it was really happening.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Soupspoon » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:16 pm UTC

There was something on the radio today (probably The World This Weekend, BBC Radio 4) about how Anglicans seemed to vote more for Brexit than not, even after adjusting for age biases.

Quite funny was the quote (here paraphrased, haven't time to Listen Again to check I've got the right words from the right programme, but feel free) that obviously those who believe in the English church, headed by the Queen of England were more inclined not to want to be governed by unelected people from Brussels. To which my first thought1 was that neither the Church nor the Queen were elected, either, so it takes a bit of willful blindness to the comparative merits (less elected, if anything) of their chosen British governance.

Other news seen in the past day or two includes the increased looking towards the continent, instead of London, by financial institutions (e.g. Lloyds Bank, although that's different from Lloyds Of London) and regulatory agencies, and that it seems that 'threats' by the Brexit team have hardened resolve across the Channel against deals. Plus accelerating demand for transfer of citizenship to Ireland and Belgium by British Nationals. But it's just so up in the air that there's nothing tangible (in public view) apart from "it's (sort of) happening!!!", to the delight of some and shocm of others.


There's almost two more years of this, probably. Possibly longer, if major stumbling blocks get in the way without any other facts changing along the way. Or the world getting Trumped by some bigger event, say.


1 Though I'm not a republican by any stretch, and I'm firmly on the side of the antidisestablishmentarianismists, despite being mostly faithless myself.

User avatar
Bane Harper
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:27 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Bane Harper » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:00 am UTC

How about the Canadian investment in Scotland? we should keep and eye on that....

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:11 am UTC

May wants to call a General Election for the 8th June.

It used to be that the Monarch PM could call an election whenever they wanted; now it requires a two-thirds majority in Commons or a vote of no confidence.
So this isn't "definite", but I doubt there'll be huge resistance in Parliament.
Image

User avatar
HES
Posts: 4796
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 7:13 pm UTC
Location: England

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby HES » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:30 am UTC

I'm not sure what to think about this. On the one hand, its an opportunity to show the Tories we won't put up with their shit anymore. On the other, the electorate are short memoried suggestible fools and a few Trump style lies will cement another 5 years of conservative destruction.

I really wish I had more faith in my fellow citizens.
He/Him/His Image

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:43 am UTC

Realistically, how could the Tories not win again? The only opportunity on offer here is for Labour to finally get rid of Corbyn.

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:48 am UTC

I don't see Labour beating the Tories.
I see a chance for the Lib Dems to recover some of their lost seats, possibly eroding away a Conservative majority.
Image

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:24 am UTC

Either way this is win-win for May. Either she gets a mandate and vote of confidence from the British people for her and her government's handling of Brexit, or she doesn't have to be in power while the whole mess is sorted out.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:52 pm UTC

Why, exactly, is Corbyn still the head of Labour? I remember there was a big kerfuffle last summer, but that he outlasted it.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 pm UTC

Because 60% of Labour party members voted for him. He's popular among a very active minority of the country, and the rest of the country is too apathetic to join the party and vote against him.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:05 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Why, exactly, is Corbyn still the head of Labour? I remember there was a big kerfuffle last summer, but that he outlasted it.

There's a lot more (some say 'engineered') support for him on the ground/streets than there is on the green seats. And the unions, the third side of the triangle of support he needs, are perhaps not universally for him but sufficiently against any of the other candidates.

Attacks on Corbyn have involved attempting to remove the voting power of the masses (legitimately or otherwise) within the Labour Party system, which has probably backfired more than it has helped to weed out the 'opportunistic trolls' that anti-Corbynites tend to assume make up the renewed surge and interest in Labour membership, and the accompanying membership fees (or special fees for getting their vote back again, to prove that if they are a troll, at least they are a paying troll) that with any luck doesn't get spent on more internal legal battling, and instead goes towards getting whatever form of Labour moving forward again, rather than chasing its own tail...

(Not a Labourite myself, but I do have my opinions about self-destructive behaviours across all sides of the internal Circular Firing Squad that is distracting them from some of the main business of Opposition. Corbyn stepping down would not solve this, neither would mass deselection of 'dissident' MPs. Fun!)

elasto
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby elasto » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:10 pm UTC

When I look at Corbyn's policies on the Labour Party website, I find myself broadly in agreement with all of them. However, I have absolutely no faith in Corbyn's competence personally, and even less faith in the remainder of his team. I first lost confidence when he proposed we continue to manufacture our nuclear subs but not equip them with any nukes - pretty much the worst of all possible options.

Yes he's been given seriously unflattering coverage in the mainstream media, but he refuses to 'play the publicity game' - and he's the loser as a result of that, not them. He cut off his nose to spite his face. All the central control and spin doctoring turned sour for Blair in the end, but you can't win a modern election without it.

I'll probably vote Lib Dem as the representation of sensible, centre-of-the-road, non-ideological pragmatism, and hope they can slowly gain ground on that basis. Remember 'I agree with Nick'..?

Ho hum.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:37 pm UTC

elasto wrote:I first lost confidence when he proposed we continue to manufacture our nuclear subs but not equip them with any nukes - pretty much the worst of all possible options.
Only when combined with "...and I'll tell everyone that this is what I'm doing"... If he still held the cards he didn't have close to his chest, it would be suboptimal, but nowhere near as bad.

Of course that's what happened. Which only now works if there's something yet untold working away in the background1 that suffices to act as enough of a third-way deterrent and protection, and that the people who matter know this, even if the respective grass-roots populations don't (whilst having something engineered to ensure the knowledge-gap doesn't preclude his success in making use of it). So I suppose we're hoping that Corbyn has some sort of link with the resources of The Torchwood Institute, or somesuch... ;)


1 There's an Armstrong & Miller (or maybe it's Mitchell & Webb, I can't hear the voices properly, in my memory) radio sketch featuring two old cold-war adversaries having one of those stereotypical park-bench-by-the-boating-lake informal backchannel tete a tetes in which they recount their long political and espionage-based battles, now that they have come to an end, during which they agree that of course they wouldn't ever have used their nukes because they knew the other's nukes would have been used, only for them to discover that (yes, this in my memoey features a voice might be Mitchell's, but I'm still not sure) there was a vastly asymetric advantage, that the possessor thereof didn't know did not have a counterpart threat, and the other old spy declares that the first really should have used that weapon, as it would have ended the whole thing much earlier and not wasted so many decades of tip-toing mind games and wasted both of their lives in a stalemate... ;)

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:48 pm UTC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39631792

Conservatives are ahead of Labour in the polls by 17%. Support for the SNP is as high as ever, so no real opportunity for Labour there.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:00 pm UTC

Two months is a long time in politics. Two weeks is. And, two days is also just about long enough, as we've seen. Let's see whether Putin supports the authoritarian Tories more than the socialist parties, eh... Or UKIP. Just imagine! Of all the parties (including SNP), I think the LibDems are the safest to support on the basis that they're not Russia's (possibly unknowing) stalking-horse in the race. But you never know. ;)

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

Also important: Theresa May has said she won't do any debates.

The impact this will have is very up in the air. Hopefully the broadcasters will run debates anyway (with either no tory podium or with an empty one) but I'm worried they'll just decide not to run any at all.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

User avatar
Jumble
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:48 am UTC
Location: London(ish), UK.
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Jumble » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:52 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:I don't see Labour beating the Tories.


I don't think even Corbyn can see Labour beating the Tories, as he has declared that he wants to lead a successful party of protest. Would be better if he'd spent his time figuring out how to lead a party of government but that was never his agenda.

At least he'll be able to get back to his allotment.
Spoiler:
Giant Speck wrote:You're a demon! DEMON!!!!

Oregonaut wrote:CURSE YOU VILLAIN!!
PhoenixEnigma wrote:Jumble is either the best or worst Santa ever, and I can't figure out which. Possibly both.

Chen
Posts: 5277
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:53 pm UTC
Location: Montreal

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Chen » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:03 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Also important: Theresa May has said she won't do any debates.

The impact this will have is very up in the air. Hopefully the broadcasters will run debates anyway (with either no tory podium or with an empty one) but I'm worried they'll just decide not to run any at all.


Uh did she give any reason why? Seems like an absolutely ridiculous thing to do.

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Xenomortis » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:29 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:... he has declared that he wants to lead a successful party of protest.

Oxymoron, no? :wink:
Image

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 6:52 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:
Jumble wrote:... he has declared that he wants to lead a successful party of protest.

Oxymoron, no? :wink:

If you actually managed to change the government's course occasionally I guess you could call yourself a successful "party of protest", assuming that means "opposition". Which would actually be a huge improvement over Labour's current state.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:18 pm UTC

Image
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:55 pm UTC

Have you seen the sitcom that's referencing?

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:57 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Have you seen the sitcom that's referencing?

Yes. I got it from a fan page I follow.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:58 pm UTC

Ah yeah, "Out of context Peep Show" :)

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:09 pm UTC

Ayup.

I met Super Hans in real life, too. He was surprised to have an American fan.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:37 pm UTC

Nice :) He probably was, it's a pretty niche show even in the UK.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5858
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby sardia » Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:25 pm UTC

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... -it-seems/
UK election is full of uncertainty.
if polls are missing election outcomes by 5 or 6 points on average, that means the margin of error (or 95 percent confidence interval) is very large indeed. Specifically, a 6-point average error in forecasting the final margin translates to a true margin of error of plus or minus 13 to 15 percentage points, depending on how you calculate it.
May will probably win, but it's risky.

User avatar
stopmadnessnow
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:58 pm UTC
Location: Somewhere in that country with Big Ben in it.

Re: British EU referendum [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, discrepancy due to be fixed by election]

Postby stopmadnessnow » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:25 am UTC

New header? We certainly don't need that June part.
For comic writing or short story writing post-haste, contact the off-the peg joke chap. He has the nous.
http://plwimsett.simplesite.com/ for my site.
https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~01110048bacb43eae6 to hire me at Upwork.

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:59 pm UTC

Xenomortis wrote:May wants to call a General Election for the 8th June.

It used to be that the Monarch PM could call an election whenever they wanted; now it requires a two-thirds majority in Commons or a vote of no confidence.
So this isn't "definite", but I doubt there'll be huge resistance in Parliament.

Division results were 522-13 in favour of an early election (there are 650 seats in Commons).
Image

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:02 pm UTC

Yeah, I didn't expect many people to vote against it. That would be sending out a signal that you don't expect to win.

EDIT: In other news, ITV will host an election debate despite May saying she won't do any. Wonder what that's going to be like.

User avatar
Xenomortis
Not actually a special flower.
Posts: 1397
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:47 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Xenomortis » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:19 pm UTC

I'm surprised by her statement that she won't do one. Perhaps she thinks it could only cost her votes?
I suspect she'll do one in the end, not doing one just seems "poor form".
Image

User avatar
eSOANEM
:D
Posts: 3604
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:39 pm UTC
Location: Grantabrycge

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:46 pm UTC

I think she was hoping it'd persuade broadcasters not to run them. Now that at least one broadcaster's going ahead anyway, I expect she'll show up because leaving an empty podium would look even worse than backtracking.

No particular surprise with the division result either. Now is about as good a time as any for the tories and their pm brought it up so they weren't going to vote against and labour moreorless have to vote for it or else it'd be read as conceding that they wouldn't be a better government. It's only the minority parties and/or a few rebel backbenchers who could reasonably get away with voting against the election.
my pronouns are they

Magnanimous wrote:(fuck the macrons)

elasto
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby elasto » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:43 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Yeah, I didn't expect many people to vote against it. That would be sending out a signal that you don't expect to win.

Exactly.

So the Fixed Parliaments Act was largely pointless as well as a bad idea (since it might otherwise lead to hugely elongated election campaigns like we see in the US: Long = expensive = parties more beholden to donors than ever).

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2730
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby orthogon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:58 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Yeah, I didn't expect many people to vote against it. That would be sending out a signal that you don't expect to win.

Worse: that you didn't even expect to increase your number of seats. So, yeah, like elasto says, a pointless Act.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:20 pm UTC

And if it fails, it's like a weird catch-22
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

Mutex
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:32 pm UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Mutex » Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:53 pm UTC

Although what happens if May ends up with an even tinier majority? Very unlikely, but it would put her in a weird position of still being in charge while not really being able to boast about her mandate.

elasto
Posts: 3132
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby elasto » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:37 pm UTC

Mutex wrote:Although what happens if May ends up with an even tinier majority? Very unlikely, but it would put her in a weird position of still being in charge while not really being able to boast about her mandate.

I find that really hard to imagine.

I'd expect many if not most former Tory voters who went UKIP to return to the fold, many former Lib-Dem voters are still too bitter for them to bounce back very far, and, Labour, well, they're plainly just a mess. Heck, the Tories might even pick up the odd seat in Scotland from pro-Brexit/pro-UK regions...

The Greens are trying to organise a centre-left coalition whereby Labour and the Lib-Dems don't oppose each other in seats where splitting the vote would result in a Tory victory, but both parties seem to be ruling it out. But even if that were to happen I still couldn't envisage anything but an increased majority for May.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 955
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: British EU referendum in June [update: Leave wins 52% - 48%, politics ensue]

Postby Liri » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:08 pm UTC

Have Lib-Dems somewhat taken over Blaire's Third Way? Plus the voting reform plank.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests