Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:42 pm UTC

I have definitely heard exactly that line of argument from various people I know who voted for him, for what that's worth.

Haven't heard it much since he started actually trying to do that shit, though.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:06 pm UTC

Border agents detained and questioned the son of the boxing legend Muhammad Ali about his religion when he flew back to the US this month, a family lawyer said.

“Where did you get your name from? Are you a Muslim?” they asked the 44-year-old Muhammad Ali Jr, who was born in Philadelphia and is a US citizen.

When Ali confirmed to immigration officials at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood international airport in Florida that he was a Muslim, they began questioning him about where he was born, family friend and lawyer Chris Mancini told the Courier-Journal newspaper. The questioning lasted for about two hours.

Ali had been at a black history month event in Jamaica with his mother, Khalilah Camacho-Ali. She was allowed to enter the country after producing a photo of herself with her famous ex-husband, who died last year, but her son had nothing to prove his link to the boxer.

The 7 February incident was the first time the family had been detained or questioned in this way


Must admit, that story seems fishy to me: Are border agents really holding up US citizens and demanding they prove themselves now? Amazing if so.

Ali’s is the latest in a string of complaints about US immigration controls after the inauguration of Trump.

The former prime minister of Norway was held for nearly an hour at Washington Dulles airport earlier this month and questioned over a visit to Iran three years ago, which he had made to speak at a human rights conference.

Meanwhile, the best-selling Australian children’s book author Mem Fox has suggested she might never return to the US after she was detained and insulted by border control agents at Los Angeles international airport. The 70-year-old said she was left “sobbing like a baby” after two hours of questioning while on her way to a conference.

A British Muslim schoolteacher travelling to New York last week as a member of a school party from south Wales was denied entry to the US. The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, had previously claimed the US government had committed to allowing all UK passport holders to enter the country.


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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:21 pm UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/25/us/i ... trump.html
There's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but nothing hard. Welcome to the next 4 (maybe 2 more years*)

*really depends on how well the Democrats do on their comeback tour. It takes a supermajority just to take on the other two branches of government.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:17 am UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/26/us/p ... udget.html
Trump calls for standard Republican budget, boost the military, maintain medicare/social security/ and gut everything else. Interesting note, there's no sign of Trump's calculations being based off Trump's promised 3% gdp growth(outrageously high and impossible). Instead it uses the high, but realistic 2.4% gdp growth.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:54 am UTC

sardia wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/26/us/politics/trump-budget.html
Trump calls for standard Republican budget, boost the military, maintain medicare/social security/ and gut everything else. Interesting note, there's no sign of Trump's calculations being based off Trump's promised 3% gdp growth(outrageously high and impossible). Instead it uses the high, but realistic 2.4% gdp growth.


Unmentioned is infrastructure spending, which Trump promised (as if his word meant anything.)
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:22 am UTC

EMTP wrote:Unmentioned is infrastructure spending, which Trump promised (as if his word meant anything.)

Politicians (Trump included) generally follow through with 70% or more of what they promised. Though in Trump's case, it's hard to tell where Trump begins, and where his various staffers power playing ends. That manwhore signs anything you put in front of him, which explains why his staff has been keeping him isolated from the liberals.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:09 am UTC

sardia wrote:Politicians (Trump included) generally follow through with 70% or more of what they promised. Though in Trump's case, it's hard to tell where Trump begins, and where his various staffers power playing ends. That manwhore signs anything you put in front of him, which explains why his staff has been keeping him isolated from the liberals.


I have seen that work and I find it dubious. Trump has been in office a scant few weeks, hardly enough, even if that were true as an average, to say whether or not Trump would be in the middle of the bell curve.

Let's remind ourselves of some of the promises standing between Trump and that 70%:

1. He said he would "immediately repeal and replace" the Affordable Care Act. He hasn't.
2. He said he would U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He hasn't.
3. He said he would force Mexico to pay for a giant wall on the southern border. All signs point to failure.
4. Speaking of failure, he said he would ban Muslims from entering the US. Fortunately, he's failed to fulfill that promise.
5. He said he would appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton. He hasn't.
6. He said he would "reinstitute a five-year ban on all executive branch officials lobbying the government for five years after they leave government." He hasn't.
7. He said he would "drain the swamp" in Washington.
8. He said he would release his tax returns after the election.
9. He promised to immediately terminate Obama’s “two illegal executive amnesties.” He hasn't.
10. He pledged "I will formulate a reform that says for every new regulation, two old regulations must be eliminated." He didn't; the EO he signed purporting to do that merely required two regulations be "identified" as possible candidates for elimination later.
11. Trump promised to instruct Treasury Secretary to label China a currency manipulator and to apply tariffs. Not happening.
12. Trump promised a death penalty for cop killers by executive order.
13. After attacking Obama for taking time off, Trump promised to have his nose to the grindstone "I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done." Instead he has gone golfing SIX TIMES in the last month, and his administration has spent on travel and lodging what the Obamas used to spend in A FULL YEAR.
14. He promised last September “I will absolutely apologize sometime in the hopefully distant future if I’m ever wrong.” He has personally lied dozens of times since then and his never apologized for any of them.
15. Trump promised not to settle the Trump University lawsuit:

“Now just so you understand, I could have settled this case a long time ago. I chose not — I’m going to win the case in court, because I do that. I win cases in court. It’s a lawsuit. … I don’t believe in settling cases. I believe in winning cases.”

He settled it for $25 million.
16. He promised he wouldn't tweet as president:

“I tweeted today. At ‘realdonaldtrump,’ I tweet. You know it… don’t worry, I’ll give it up after I’m president. We won’t tweet anymore, I don’t think. Not presidential.”

17. “But one thing I can promise you is this: I will always tell you the truth.”


…and the list goes on and on and on. Trump is a sociopath who is utterly ignorant of the workings of the government, the economy, the law or the Constitution. He lies routinely, and as this list illustrates, many of these promises have been abandoned because they were impractical and stupid to begin with. He's not going to do 70% of what he's promised: I'd bet you a shiny new nickel he doesn't so much as REMEMBER 70% of what he's promised.
"Reasonable – that is, human – men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:08 pm UTC

I'd bet you a shiny new nickel he doesn't so much as REMEMBER 70% of what he's promised.


To be fair, neither do his supporters.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:37 pm UTC

According to AP, Trump is asking for a $54B increase in the defense budget.

Sorry for linking to a tweet, but they haven't published an article yet on it.

The put out an article on it, so the link is updated.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:58 pm UTC

Trump on healthcare: It’s an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated. Nobody except for... everyone who has ever had to deal with the system before, I guess.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:18 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:According to AP, Trump is asking for a $54B increase in the defense budget.

Sorry for linking to a tweet, but they haven't published an article yet on it.

The put out an article on it, so the link is updated.


This increase is actually far less significant than the effort to gut discretionary spending. It'd be about a 10% increase, 0.3% of the GDP, which is not absurd in an era when Russia is ramping up its aggression in Ukraine and China has expanded its military spending 40-fold.

OTOH, in a stupid ideologically-driven move, they are going to try and cut a similar amount from discretionary spending, eliminating or gutting NPR, the EPA, the CDC, the NEA, NASA, the foreign aid budget…

LaserGuy wrote:Trump on healthcare: It’s an unbelievably complex subject. Nobody knew that health care could be so complicated. Nobody except for... everyone who has ever had to deal with the system before, I guess.


Trump made some promises about that, too…
“We’re going to have insurance for everybody,” Trump said. “There was a philosophy in some circles that if you can’t pay for it, you don’t get it. That’s not going to happen with us.” People covered under the law “can expect to have great health care. It will be in a much simplified form. Much less expensive and much better.”


Anybody think these promises will fall among the supposed 70%?
"Reasonable – that is, human – men will always be capable of compromise, but men who have dehumanized themselves by becoming the blind worshipers of an idea or an ideal are fanatics whose devotion to abstractions makes them the enemies of life."
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:10 am UTC

In my defense, Republicans are really supportvie of Trump right now. He's done a lot of what they want, (aside from the big issue of putin/russia philia that Trump has). Even the trade stuff isn't completely out of line since it means more corporate welfare, which the GOP loves.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/co ... ump-score/
Look at how little resistance to Trump there is on all his positions. Think about his cabinet appointees, none of them are crazy outside of Republican values. Gorsich and his military appointees are way popular even though (or because) they aren't loyal to Trump. Bannon and Russia are the biggest thorns, none of which are deal breakers.

Now don't get me wrong, everything Trump stands for is wrong, but they are wrong because they are bad Republican ideas. Only a few things are wrong because they are antithetical to the United States, and/or the western liberal order. Again, a lot of those are Republican ideas. (Immigration, brutalizing criminals, racism/minority fears are bad GOP ideas.) (Attacking the press and judiciary are bad Trump only ideas).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:46 pm UTC

sardia wrote:In my defense, Republicans are really supportvie of Trump right now. He's done a lot of what they want, (aside from the big issue of putin/russia philia that Trump has). Even the trade stuff isn't completely out of line since it means more corporate welfare, which the GOP loves.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/co ... ump-score/
Look at how little resistance to Trump there is on all his positions. Think about his cabinet appointees, none of them are crazy outside of Republican values. Gorsich and his military appointees are way popular even though (or because) they aren't loyal to Trump. Bannon and Russia are the biggest thorns, none of which are deal breakers.

Now don't get me wrong, everything Trump stands for is wrong, but they are wrong because they are bad Republican ideas. Only a few things are wrong because they are antithetical to the United States, and/or the western liberal order. Again, a lot of those are Republican ideas. (Immigration, brutalizing criminals, racism/minority fears are bad GOP ideas.) (Attacking the press and judiciary are bad Trump only ideas).


The Times made a graph for this. They (and I) see him as less normal than you seem to:

Image

Trump is an abnormal man who emerged from a Republican Party which had become abnormal, embracing denial and conspiracy, intolerance and extreme partisanship.

He is, however, much more than that. He is ignorant, incompetent, vain, greedy, arrogant and dishonest to a degree never seen before at this level. The high level of Republican support I would attribute less to him acting as they would want him to act and more to the extreme partisanship of the GOP, as well as the fact that he is still in the "honeymoon" period where most presidents enjoy massive support from EVERYONE.

I do not think Trump has "ideas" in the sense of coherent policy positions and strategies. With no integrity and no capability or willingness to take in ego-dystonic facts, Trump lives in a fantasy world, and that fantasy is always shifting and change, from one day to another and sometimes from one sentence to the next. Remember when he said he didn't watch cable news, and then gave as an example of the badness of cable news something he watched the day before?

It is hopeless to try and extract a clear plan of action or philosophy of government from this man. I've had nursing home patients who were more coherent. Certainly he will say traditional red-meat Republican things at times, but as he will say anything, that doesn't mean much. He's also said that Planned Parenthood is wonderful and that everyone's healthcare will be covered, at a lower cost than people pay today. He's a delusional liar. He says all kinds of things.

As far as the themes he returns to again and again, they have support from Republicans and even some independents, but the extremism with which he articulates them has previously been out of bounds.

Right-wing voters distrust the media. But Trump calls them the "enemy of the people."

Right-wing voters are hostile to undocumented immigrants and refugees. Trump wants to triple the size of the deportation force, attempted to ban Muslims, and continues to encourage federal law enforcement to harass Muslims and visa holders, from Mohammad Ali's son to a famous French historian to a Canadian doctor born in Afghanistan.

…and so on. Trump has mainstreamed white supremacy and attacked immigrants, Muslims, scientists, judges, the FBI, the CIA, and the media. Yes, some of this grows out of Republican ideas which have been and are bad. But it's like the difference between Karl Marx, who spent his life as a scholar and wrote a handful of things praising violent revolution, and Lenin, who turned those ideas into a weapon with which to commit mass murder.

Trump is not a normal Republican. He's a fascist. Literally. Our best hope at this point is that he is too lazy, vain, and stupid to be the standard-bearer for a successful fascist revolution.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:17 pm UTC

Being on an xkcd forum, i expected some funny outlier on this chart...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:44 pm UTC

Is the chart reflecting the views of GOP voters vs. Trump? Because a lot of things marked as somewhat abnormal (complaining about voter fraud, criticizing "activist" judges, etc.) is fairly standard fare for the GOP.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:38 pm UTC

speising wrote:Being on an xkcd forum, i expected some funny outlier on this chart...

Hair: Very Abnormal and Extremely Unimportant?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:15 am UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Is the chart reflecting the views of GOP voters vs. Trump? Because a lot of things marked as somewhat abnormal (complaining about voter fraud, criticizing "activist" judges, etc.) is fairly standard fare for the GOP.


First, I would say the ratings are subjective. I don't think there's any objective formula to determine normal from abnormal.

Second, the way Trump is going about his job and the specific things he is saying are what is abnormal; it's not that the broad themes have never been touched on before. Complaining about voter fraud is standard fare (although dishonest and dangerous); saying millions of people voted illegally is not. No president has ever made a claim like that before, for the obvious reason that it's false and totally irresponsible as well as corrosive to the trust in democratic elections are system relies on to operate.

Or take your other example, the judiciary. Yes, other republicans have criticized "activist" judges. Trump did something totally different from that and orders of magnitude worse. GWB once said this:
Our Founders gave the judicial branch enormous power. It's the only branch of government whose officers are unelected. That means judges on the federal bench must exercise their power prudently, cautiously, or some might even say, conservatively. (Laughter.)...

A lot has happened since 2000. Yet I can still remember the heated debate over the kinds of judges Presidents should appoint. One group said that judges ought to look at the Constitution as "a document that grows with our country and our history." This concept of a "living Constitution" gives unelected judges wide latitude in creating new laws and policies without accountability to the people...

I made a promise to the American people during the campaign that...we would seek judges who would faithfully interpret the Constitution -- and not use the courts to invent laws or dictate social policy.


He implies, but doesn't state, that some judges (no particular judge! Not in reference to any particular case!) had "invent[ed] laws" or "dictate[d] social policy."

What did Trump say?

Image

Image

In a few words, written at grade-school level as is his wont, Trump denied the legitimacy of a federal judge ("that so-called judge") claimed they rendered the country defenseless, and asked the public to blame federal judges and their restraint of his power for any future terrorist attacks.

I understand the desire not to let the republicans off the hook for the stupid irresponsible things that they say and do. I agree, Trump is in some ways the flowering of GOP stupidity and evil, which existed before him. However. He is also a massively dangerous and irresponsible person in his own right, and we shouldn't normalize his insanity.
Last edited by EMTP on Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:24 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:11 am UTC

Holy shit I can't listen to Trump preach about civil rights
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zamfir » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:48 am UTC

I don't think there's any objective formula to determine normal from abnormal.

Image

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:11 am UTC

Zamfir wrote:
I don't think there's any objective formula to determine normal from abnormal.

Image


FTFY
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby VgKing » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:29 pm UTC

Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:42 pm UTC

VgKing wrote:Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.


Seems like a pretty shitty power so far, since all that has happened so far is Trump became President.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:49 pm UTC

VgKing wrote:Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.

Can't tell if serious...
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:18 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
VgKing wrote:Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.

Can't tell if serious...

If fox news abandons Trump, then yes.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 pm UTC

KnightExemplar wrote:
VgKing wrote:Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.


Seems like a pretty shitty power so far, since all that has happened so far is Trump became President.

Never underestimate the power of the 4th Estate.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:54 am UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/01/us/p ... cking.html
The concerns about the contacts were cemented by a series of phone calls between Sergey I. Kislyak, Russia’s ambassador to the United States, and Michael T. Flynn, who had been poised to become Mr. Trump’s national security adviser. The calls began on Dec. 29, shortly after Mr. Kislyak was summoned to the State Department and informed that, in retaliation for Russian election meddling, the United States was expelling 35 suspected Russian intelligence operatives and imposing other sanctions. Mr. Kislyak was irate and threatened a forceful Russia response, according to people familiar with the exchange.

But a day later, Mr. Putin said his government would not retaliate, prompting a Twitter post from Mr. Trump praising the Russian president — and puzzling Obama White House officials.

On Jan. 2, administration officials learned that Mr. Kislyak — after leaving the State Department meeting — called Mr. Flynn, and that the two talked multiple times in the 36 hours that followed. American intelligence agencies routinely wiretap the phones of Russian diplomats, and transcripts of the calls showed that Mr. Flynn urged the Russians not to respond, saying relations would improve once Mr. Trump was in office, according to multiple current and former officials.

Well, now we know why Flynn was talking to Russian Intelligence.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:47 am UTC

Gosh, what a shocking twist that nobody saw coming.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EMTP » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:06 am UTC

Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, met twice with the Russian ambassador prior to the inauguration and lied to Congress about it.

(CNN)Attorney General Jeff Sessions met twice last year with the top Russian diplomat in Washington whose interactions with former Trump national security adviser Mike Flynn led to Flynn's firing.

The Justice Department disclosed the meetings and said Sessions didn't mislead senators during his confirmation earlier this year when he said he knew of no contacts between Trump surrogates and Russians. Sessions, then a senator, was an early Trump backer and regular surrogate for him as a candidate
.
Sergey Kislyak, the Russian ambassador, is considered by US intelligence to be one of Russia's top spies and spy-recruiters in Washington, according to current and former senior US government officials.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/01/politics/ ... -meetings/

Hard to see how the GOP wriggles out of a special prosecutor now, given that the man who would supervise the investigation of the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia was a prominent participant in the Trump campaign's contacts with Russia. But then, as Austen reminds us, we should "draw no limits…to the impudence of an impudent man."
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:07 am UTC

commodorejohn wrote:Gosh, what a shocking twist that nobody saw coming.

Not sure if you're being dismissive, but it is a pretty big deal that hard proof of him breaking the law has turned up.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:07 pm UTC

elasto wrote:Not sure if you're being dismissive, but it is a pretty big deal that hard proof of him breaking the law has turned up.


It's far less nefarious that some other speculation though. Hell it probably worked out well for the US in not getting Russia to respond with a promise of better relationships in the future. Since that part was going to happen anyways, the biggest issue here is the technicality of breaking of the law. The case would be much stronger if this was something that happened during the campaigning, but after Trump won the election, it really does seem like a lesser issue. I'll grant it was also before the electoral college votes were counted, so in theory he still wasn't certain to be president, but again this is likely just a technicality.

I really feel focus needs to be on the relationship during the campaign. This other bit, in my opinion, is seems like a waste of time (and more importantly political capital) to try and pursue.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:09 pm UTC

elasto wrote:
commodorejohn wrote:Gosh, what a shocking twist that nobody saw coming.

Not sure if you're being dismissive, but it is a pretty big deal that hard proof of him breaking the law has turned up.

That was hardcore sarcasm. It is definitely a big deal, it's just amazing what a not-at-all-a-surprise it is when officials of this administration turn out to have been in collusion with foreign powers and lied under oath about it.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:12 pm UTC

Chen wrote:the biggest issue here is the technicality of breaking of the law.

You realise that the Attorney General has lied under oath to the Senate, right? For sake of clarity, the Attorney General is the head of the US Department of Justice, chief law enforcement officer and chief lawyer of the US government.

This is not a 'technicality' - lying under oath is something normal citizens go to jail for!

And all this from an administration that promised to make America great again!

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:15 pm UTC

Not just regular people, president Clinton was impeached for perjury.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:21 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:Not just regular people, president Clinton was impeached for perjury.

Impeached but not removed from office (not arguing with the point of your post).

I don't think the, "it was as a senator, not as a Trump surrogate!" defence will hold much water but who knows.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:24 pm UTC

It doesn't really matter, he said a major, obvious lie under oath. Whether the republicans will find ways to squirm their way out of this is a different matter.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:26 pm UTC

They might not want to, in some quarters...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:51 pm UTC

elasto wrote:You realise that the Attorney General has lied under oath to the Senate, right? For sake of clarity, the Attorney General is the head of the US Department of Justice, chief law enforcement officer and chief lawyer of the US government.

This is not a 'technicality' - lying under oath is something normal citizens go to jail for!

And all this from an administration that promised to make America great again!


Actually I was replying to the one about Flynn talking to Russia about not responding to the sanctions on Dec 29th. The technicality there being conducting politics while not being a member of the administration (yet). You replied to commodorejohn's post which was replying to the article sardia posted not the one EMTP posted regarding Sessions.

The lying under oath bit about Sessions is damning as hell. The only wiggle room I saw is that he claimed he wasn't talking about the elections to the Russians. That may in fact be true, but its absolutely not what he said, since I'm pretty sure he said he wasn't communicating with Russia at all. The linked CNN article makes it sound like he was being asked directly regarding the election and responded as such, but another one I read (Vox perhaps?) showed his response was a pretty categorical "I had no communication with Russia".

While it may be legitimate that he wasn't talking to Russia regarding the election and was doing so as a Senator, I don't see a way to prove that one way or another. Innocent until proven guilty and all, but considering the circumstances and the suspicions already in place, I can't see how he should reasonably be able to get out of this.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:56 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
elasto wrote:You realise that the Attorney General has lied under oath to the Senate, right? For sake of clarity, the Attorney General is the head of the US Department of Justice, chief law enforcement officer and chief lawyer of the US government.

This is not a 'technicality' - lying under oath is something normal citizens go to jail for!

And all this from an administration that promised to make America great again!


Actually I was replying to the one about Flynn talking to Russia about not responding to the sanctions on Dec 29th. The technicality there being conducting politics while not being a member of the administration (yet). You replied to commodorejohn's post which was replying to the article sardia posted not the one EMTP posted regarding Sessions.

The lying under oath bit about Sessions is damning as hell. The only wiggle room I saw is that he claimed he wasn't talking about the elections to the Russians. That may in fact be true, but its absolutely not what he said, since I'm pretty sure he said he wasn't communicating with Russia at all.

Why is the "but I'm a senator"excuse not somewhat valid? There's no transcript like we have with Flynn, so sessions can lie all he wants without anybody to contradict him.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:55 pm UTC

sardia wrote:
SDK wrote:
VgKing wrote:Media has the power to build and demolish. In this case, I'm patiently waiting for the media to bring Trump down.

Can't tell if serious...

If fox news abandons Trump, then yes.
Fox was never really behind Trump until he won the nom, and even to this day they aren't as supportive of him as other GOP members. If Fox dumps Trump, Trumps supporters will move on to other news sources, like the ones that got him elected. Breitbart.com is the 35th most popular website in the US, right behind Apple.com and the third biggest news site after nytimes.com and cnn.com and is ahead of the other major conservative news site, foxnews.com(49th).

In this day and age people seek out the news they want to hear.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Mar 02, 2017 7:56 pm UTC

sardia wrote:Why is the "but I'm a senator"excuse not somewhat valid? There's no transcript like we have with Flynn, so sessions can lie all he wants without anybody to contradict him.

I'm not sure how that's relevant, could you explain? The guy said, under oath "I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and I didn’t have — did not have communications with the Russians, and I’m unable to comment on it." There is proof that he did have communications with Russians. What does it matter if he's a senator or not? That really sounds like lying under oath to me, and I'm not sure what can change that fact.
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