Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:57 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:What's the impact of one murder? It's more than just one person dead.
I venture that the dead person would claim that that's the most important impact.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Yablo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:00 pm UTC

Ginger wrote:And as long as we keep saying blatantly false things like, "You can be actually corrupt and if you just Appear to Be Corrupt that's just as bad am I right guys? Girls? Anyone?" Because it's just not true. Real Corruption is always worse than fake corruption. Even for pretty pretty public service workers that depend on their reputations to survive, even for Presidents and even for any politician. If you get caught takin' bribes or making biased decisions that discriminate you Will Be Terminated... Eventually. No, the justice system isn't perfect, but if we all had some faith and goodwill towards it then it might just actually get better and Trump--I mean any dirty politician shall actually be brought to justice.


I agree with all of this except the part I bolded. Trump isn't a dirty politician; it's only recently that he's even begun to actually be a politician. He's no Ronald Reagan, but he's the closest thing we've had since. He may overdo it with the petty Twitter arguments and bravado, but he's done genuinely wonderful things since taking office for which he doesn't always receive credit.

The benefits and drawbacks of the major overhaul of the tax code won't be seen for a while yet, but most of it should be very positive for all classes. Doubling the standard deduction alone will go a very long way toward helping the middle and lower classes. He's taken a hard line against anti-American foreign regimes which is something Obama would never have done. He's pulled the U.S. out of unfavorable agreements and treaties. He's forced countries like China, Russia, and Iran to take us seriously for the first time in decades. ISIS has lost half its territory since he took office. The national unemployment rate is at an almost-20 year low. He did away with Obama's Title IX deal which prevented universities from pursuing due process in sexual-assault cases. He decertified the Iran nuclear deal. He officially recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The economy is far better, and the stock market and consumer confidence continue to improve.

He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:07 pm UTC

I wouldn't normally do this on a forum like this one, but:

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:15 pm UTC

I'll allow it.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:
I agree with all of this except the part I bolded. Trump isn't a dirty politician; it's only recently that he's even begun to actually be a politician. He's no Ronald Reagan, but he's the closest thing we've had since. He may overdo it with the petty Twitter arguments and bravado, but he's done genuinely wonderful things since taking office for which he doesn't always receive credit.

The benefits and drawbacks of the major overhaul of the tax code won't be seen for a while yet, but most of it should be very positive for all classes. Doubling the standard deduction alone will go a very long way toward helping the middle and lower classes. He's taken a hard line against anti-American foreign regimes which is something Obama would never have done. He's pulled the U.S. out of unfavorable agreements and treaties. He's forced countries like China, Russia, and Iran to take us seriously for the first time in decades. ISIS has lost half its territory since he took office. The national unemployment rate is at an almost-20 year low. He did away with Obama's Title IX deal which prevented universities from pursuing due process in sexual-assault cases. He decertified the Iran nuclear deal. He officially recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The economy is far better, and the stock market and consumer confidence continue to improve.

He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.

I could see how you think Iran will take us seriously but why Russia or China? What exactly has he done to prove he's a tough guy? He's softer on them (especially Russia) then soft serve ice cream. Please provide a citation too, curious where you are getting this.

What exactly do you think will happen in a few years to middle class and poor people taxes vs corporate taxes? Do you know which ones will expire? I'm guessing you don't hear about his corruption or use of office to enrich himself? Or the unethical fake charity he has?
Last edited by sardia on Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:42 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

Poe's law is out in force today. Reading that post, I was not sure if it was serious or parody.

Edit: Not the one right above me, but the one bender is laughing at, of course.

Edit 2: China taking us seriously? China is enamored with the fact that Trump is pulling us out of trade agreements, essentially seeing him as a useful idiot, as it allows them to insert themselves into more prominent positions on the world stage ( https://www.npr.org/2018/01/03/57528856 ... l-the-void ). This is helping China, not hindering her.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:09 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:I agree with all of this except the part I bolded. Trump isn't a dirty politician; it's only recently that he's even begun to actually be a politician. He's no Ronald Reagan, but he's the closest thing we've had since. He may overdo it with the petty Twitter arguments and bravado, but he's done genuinely wonderful things since taking office for which he doesn't always receive credit.
Just checking -- you're the poster who doesn't understand that undocumented immigration has been on the decline for decades, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit violent crimes than the average population, and thinks that Mueller is a Democratic stooge, right?

Just asking so I can put the rest of your post in perspective. It's weird to me how people who occupy the same reality that I do can be so utterly divorced from it.
Yablo wrote:He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.
I especially like that he's one of the first presidents to talk about executing the families of military targets. Very Christian of him. Jesus would be proud.

Considering that our leaders are meant to be examples for our children, I think he sets an excellent one to follow. I mean, who wouldn't be proud to have a kid like this? A serial sexual assaulter, star of his own reality television show, and leader of the free world.

With examples like this -- and people like you validating them as good, strong leadership -- I can't wait to see the values of the next generation.
Last edited by The Great Hippo on Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:16 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:14 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:.
Yablo wrote:He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.
I especially like that he's one of the first presidents to talk about executing the families of military targets. Very Christian of him. Jesus would be proud.

Don't forget investigating and prosecuting political enemies. That always bodes well...
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:34 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:Don't forget investigating and prosecuting political enemies. That always bodes well...
It's weird. I remember back when I was a kid during the Clinton/Monica Lewinski scandal -- I felt incredibly conflicted. I couldn't tell if the scandal was really relevant to the presidency or not. Later on, in college, I remember seeing a poster a Republican professor put up with Clinton crossed out, captioned as "VALUES MATTER". I still wasn't sure. I couldn't really see why it was important to have a president who wasn't just competent, but had principles.

It took Trump to make me see it. In retrospect, Clinton was pretty bad (for reasons, as it turns out, that go well beyond the Lewinski scandal -- though that was awful enough). Trump is beyond "bad". He's a validation of the notion that principles aren't important at all -- that you can cheat on your spouse, sexually assault women, barge into the dressing rooms of under-aged teenagers -- talk about murdering families of military targets -- refuse to condemn actual literal fucking Nazis -- it doesn't matter. What's important isn't what you do, or what you say, or the content of your character; what's important is money, fame, and a complete lack of shame.

It's taken over a decade, but I can now see what that professor was so angry about. A leader is supposed to have character -- not *be* one.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:36 pm UTC

Dauric wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:.
Yablo wrote:He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.
I especially like that he's one of the first presidents to talk about executing the families of military targets. Very Christian of him. Jesus would be proud.

Don't forget investigating and prosecuting political enemies. That always bodes well...

And an open admirer of dictators and thugs like Putin, Duterte, or, um, Hitler precisely for their brutality and thuggery! Wotta mensch!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:48 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:It's taken over a decade, but I can now see what that professor was so angry about. A leader is supposed to have character -- not *be* one.
I'm definitely in the same boat. Trump and the #metoo movement have made me come around on Clinton really being pretty bad and probably should have been removed from office or resigned. I feel bad for only coming around on it now, as its much more politically convenient than it would have been during Clinton's scandal.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:03 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:I'm definitely in the same boat. Trump and the #metoo movement have made me come around on Clinton really being pretty bad and probably should have been removed from office or resigned. I feel bad for only coming around on it now, as its much more politically convenient than it would have been during Clinton's scandal.
Yeah, I kind of almost want to go find that professor and tell them that I see where they were coming from now and I'm sorry for not taking issue with Clinton when he was in office.

Except I'm terrified if I do that, I'll find out the professor is now an ardent Trump supporter.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:08 pm UTC

ucim wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:What's the impact of one murder? It's more than just one person dead.
I venture that the dead person would claim that that's the most important impact.

Jose



For society as a whole, empirical evidence shows murder has the greater impact. Spanish Flu killed 3x as many as WWI, but go ahead and compare the number of holidays dedicated to each, the number of movies and tv shows, the books, the poetry, the historical studies, and so forth.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:39 pm UTC

With 2018 midterm campaign starting soon, where are Democrats going to see the biggest resurgence?
I'm kinda disappointed with suburban wealthy people as a demographic. They had less than predicted support for Ossoff in the special election which was primarily a suburban district. This isn't too important in itself except you have to ask where the extra support is coming from. I have some hunches but I wanna see how the election in March turns out first.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:27 pm UTC

Yes, character matters. But everyone has character flaws, and they are not all equal. In (Bill) Clinton's case, he had sort-of sex with an underling, and lied about it under oath. Not cool, but small potatoes in comparison with Trump, who is actively fomenting violent discord in the country and the world, all the way from lamenting the lack of violence in football games to encouraging police to take suspects and "rough them up a little" to reveling in the idea of nuclear genocide against the slanty eyed people. He rejects science, evidence, and expertise in all forms, instead doing whatever strokes his ego (never mind his little hands) at the moment. His priorities are Trump first, Trump second, and destroying anything Obama did third. He has an enormous disrespect for people, evidenced (for example) by his treatment of disabled vets, parents of slain soldiers, POWs, brown people, foreigners, not-so-foreigners (like Puerto Ricans - does he even care that they are Americans?)

These are YUGE character flaws. They pale in comparison to wanting to keep a little cigar dalliance private.

And I'm not even getting into the idea of involving Russia in our country's election, something that rises to the level of treason if it turns out to be true.

Character matters. And politicians lie. But the lies are different.

Clinton lied because Truth was important, and he wanted us to buy his version of it.

Trump lies to undermine the very idea of truth. And that is a character flaw the size of his ego.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby commodorejohn » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:30 pm UTC

ucim wrote:Clinton lied because Truth was important, and he wanted us to buy his version of it.

You, uh...you do understand that lies are, by definition, not the truth, right...?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:55 pm UTC

commodorejohn wrote:You, uh...you do understand that lies are, by definition, not the truth, right...?
Yes, I do. That's the point. Clinton (and most other politicians) want us to believe their lies are true. Trump wants us to not care whether they are true or not. The latter is far more dangerous.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:04 pm UTC

In technical philosophical terminology, utterances made with disregard for truth (rather than intentional concealing truth) are not "lies", but "bullshit".

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:41 am UTC

I'm glad that beef by-products are getting their philosophical due. But it's not quite what it seems. From the wiki article: "The liar cares about the truth and attempts to hide it; the bullshitter doesn't care if what they say is true or false, but rather only cares whether or not their listener is persuaded." Not caring whether what you say is true is part of lying (and part of bullshitting), and attempting to persuade is the purpose of lying (and the purpose of bullshitting).

Trump is doing something else. His goal is to get the listener to give up on the idea of truth as something of value. Loyalty (to Trump) is what is of value, truth is irrelevant. If he actually achieves this goal, he will be dictator. Or dead.
Spoiler:
I recently realized that the same thing is true of Flat Earthers, which seem to have had a strong resurgence in the last year. They discredit valid arguments for a globe earth with noise; this tells me they are not actually interested in what the shape of the earth is. They are just using it as a way to create an in-group; a religion if you will. They can get away with it because, for most people, the shape of the earth (and whether NASA is a fakery organization) makes no difference in the decisions they make in their daily lives. They may rely on GPS (which depends on a ball earth) but they are just pushing buttons; GPS is something other people have put together. Only people like southern hemisphere ship navigators are going to make decisions (which course to take) which rely on them believing the earth is the actual shape that it really is. To most people, the true shape of the earth is naught but a curiosity.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:57 am UTC

ucim wrote:Trump is doing something else. His goal is to get the listener to give up on the idea of truth as something of value. Loyalty (to Trump) is what is of value, truth is irrelevant. If he actually achieves this goal, he will be dictator. Or dead.

Indeed. It's 1984-level shit.

When Trump demands his followers say he had the biggest inauguration crowd ever, it's not a million miles away from when O'Brian demands Winston say he is holding up five fingers rather than four...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:07 am UTC

Paranoia has risen and is truly among us. On one hand you have one group of people who think Empty Suit is a moron and another group that thinks he has a Grand Plan to acquire absolute power.

I blame Twitter. A more mindless publishing platform couldn't have been invented. If Twitter goes out of business, Empty Suit will lose his mind because then he will have to pay for the privilege of getting on my last nerve. Fuck Twitter and the fool who invented it. Sorry for being offensive.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:24 am UTC

No, not really, I despise twitter in general. It's like someone looked at the Facebook Wall, and decided that they'd make it even more banal.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Quercus » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:58 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:No, not really, I despise twitter in general. It's like someone looked at the Facebook Wall, and decided that they'd make it even more banal.

The only good use I've found for Twitter is short, automated announcements - when I was commuting by train the train company's delays and cancellations account was very useful.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:28 am UTC

Zohar wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Trump Bans 'Transgender,' 'Fetus,' 'Science-Based' From CDC Documents

Worth noting this is not true - it is not a direction from administration, and there's no official policy on any of this. It's the other way around - people trying to figure out ways to still get their funding in an anti-scientific atmosphere suggested not including those words to try and increase their chances. It's ridiculous people get this desperate, and the underlying reason is the populism and absurdity of this regime, but it's not a decision on Trump's part.


While
The election of Trump has led to the biologist in the degree-off strip to identify "mentioning that your work is based on science and evidence" as a major risk factor in not getting funded, and therefore in all associated problems like tuberculosis, rabies, cholera, syphilis, west Nile fever, giardiasis, HIV, zika, malaria, typhoid and bubonic plague
is not the same thing as
Trump has ordered that science-based work not be funded
or
Trump has banned scientists from mentioning that their work is science-based
it's still pretty fucking scary.

Vote Trump. Bring back Black Death mass grave digging jobs. Make America asphyxiate again.


Scary.

ucim wrote:Loyalty (to Trump) is what is of value, truth is irrelevant. I recently realized that the same thing is true of Flat Earthers, which seem to have had a strong resurgence in the last year. They discredit valid arguments for a globe earth with noise; this tells me they are not actually interested in what the shape of the earth is.


See also the climate change denial industry, which creates "clever memes to destroy greens' arguments" like "You must really hate trees if you want to eradicate carbon dioxide because they need it to live!" and encourages people to spam the world with them. Remember "There's been no global warming for ten years," repeated twice a day for six years? They have about a dozen lines they puke out and they keep puking them out again and again to keep everyone too busy mopping up vomit to present a scientific paper.

cooling_trends.png


Then you meet someone who uses those lines in real life and he stands there looking at you sideways, waiting for you to wilt under his Undefeatable Logic so he can be smug about being smarter than you because he's Got Memes.

After a while, the logic behind killing rabid animals to save the herd, cutting down blight-infected trees to save the forest and digging out the dead, dying and probably-infected parts of a hedge under honey fungus attack start to look like great responses to the zombie apocalypse. I've recently started hearing even the hard-headed, old-fashioned and under-educated around me catching on to the idea that we're fucking everything up and bringing children into the world now would be unkind to those children. Our whole (anthrosphere?) world's built on the assumption that we're going to have more than 2 children per woman and many of those children won't live long enough to retire. I don't think we can move away from that quickly enough to dodge the consequence we've been bringing on at least since 1950 ... probably since 1950 BC.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby idonno » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:33 am UTC

morriswalters wrote:Paranoia has risen and is truly among us. On one hand you have one group of people who think Empty Suit is a moron and another group that thinks he has a Grand Plan to acquire absolute power.

The really odd thing is that based on anecdotal experiences, I think a non trivial portion of both these groups might be the same people.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:46 am UTC

There's no reason he can't be a moron and have accidentally stumbled upon a grand plan to acquire absolute power...

(Having said that, I believe neither of those things; I think he's smart in his own way and that the system grinds too slowly for any such plan to succeed.

It could definitely leave politics in an even worse state though, both in terms of what political parties are prepared to do to succeed and with the level of disillusionment amongst general voters.)

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:06 pm UTC

I suspect he gets a cut of the royalties from this new book.

Given the outcome from his "it's fake! Don't buy it! Why are you all buying it!?" messages, I can't help feeling that he's taken "that which doesn't kill me makes me strong" to a meta-level.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:47 pm UTC

elasto wrote:There's no reason he can't be a moron and have accidentally stumbled upon a grand plan to acquire absolute power...

(Having said that, I believe neither of those things; I think he's smart in his own way and that the system grinds too slowly for any such plan to succeed.

It could definitely leave politics in an even worse state though, both in terms of what political parties are prepared to do to succeed and with the level of disillusionment amongst general voters.)

He may have been somewhat smart some time ago, with considerable assistance from capable attorneys, but the theme that's been emerging is indicating he isn't fully functional.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:13 pm UTC

Liri wrote:
elasto wrote:There's no reason he can't be a moron and have accidentally stumbled upon a grand plan to acquire absolute power...

(Having said that, I believe neither of those things; I think he's smart in his own way and that the system grinds too slowly for any such plan to succeed.

It could definitely leave politics in an even worse state though, both in terms of what political parties are prepared to do to succeed and with the level of disillusionment amongst general voters.)

He may have been somewhat smart some time ago, with considerable assistance from capable attorneys, but the theme that's been emerging is indicating he isn't fully functional.

I want to believe Michael wolff's book, but that just makes me more skeptical. Has anyone validated his recorded audio? The only people I heard talking about truth levels is on twitter. There are a lot of discrepancies which WAPO initially was skeptical. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4156763136
See this falsehood listed here. If Wolff is lying about this ( or exaggerating) then what else could he be lying about? It really corrodes what could be a really good piece of journalism.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:07 pm UTC

I heard David Brooks, a conservative columnist for the NY Times who often appears on NPR (and who is certainly no fan of Trump), express concerns about Michael Wolff's history of questionable journalism. Here he is on the National Public Radio program All Things Considered yesterday. (BTW, it was All Things Considered host Robert Siegel's last show before his retirement).

BROOKS: You know, I first have worries about this whole episode. Michael Wolff does not operate by the standards that prevail at The New York Times, The Washington Post, at NPR. And I worry that we're lowering our standards because we find it salacious and gossipy. I think this book has some things that are probably accurate - probably the quotes - a lot of things that are probably fictional. And [as mainstream media] we're - our state in the American public opinion is so precarious. I worry about us [the mainstream media] becoming even more delegitimized by simply baying to this guy.

I think the quotes are probably right, and the split between Trump and Bannon is certainly right. And to me, that's the most significant thing to come out of this. And I have to say I have the minority view on this. Everyone thinks Bannon is finished.

SIEGEL: Yeah.

BROOKS: But Bannonism, populism has real roots in this country. Trumpism, a billionaire narcissist, has no roots. So I do not think - I think in the long run, Bannonism or something like it will outlast Trumpism.


Two more quotes from that program, which drift a bit from the topic, but about which I thought Brooks is probably, unfortunately, correct:

Spoiler:
SIEGEL: I mean, David, you've said all along that what you now speak of as Bannonism - it has some contours to it. It is a set of ideas. It's not just running on the fumes of Reaganism from...

BROOKS: Yeah. And I've said before that Donald Trump is the wrong answer to the right question. And what Bannon, the populist - who - whether it was Pat Buchanan, Bannon, whoever is the future iteration - disbelief in the post-war world order with America, you know, actively engaged around the world - the disbelief in globalization, a sense that the elites are corrupt and detached from regular people - all those things are real sentiments, and Donald Trump does not answer to them. And we are guaranteed in part because of the tax bill that there'll be even more alienation of the working class in the next election, which will show up one way or another.


Later:

SIEGEL: But David, I mean, it's hard to imagine other really red states like Alabama suddenly electing Democrats in 2018 because of Donald Trump.

BROOKS: But, you know, the Democrats have this huge party advantage ID. My imagination isn't big enough to figure out how the Democrats are going to mess this up.

(LAUGHTER)

BROOKS: But somehow I'm sure they will. You know, I think the bigger trend is the collapse of both parties. I do think we've seen this around Europe and around the world that major parties are in disarray, the Republicans in clear collapse. The Democrats will probably have a good year. But the underlying splits I do think are real, and the leftward drift and the collapse of the center - that's a real fact of the Democratic Party.

SIEGEL: You know, it's surprising because thinking back on all the years that I've been hosting the program leading up to tonight, my last show today, 30 years ago, the political parties in America really weren't coherent. There were these odd patchworks of, you know, rock-ribbed Midwestern Republicans and Northeastern liberal Republicans and progressives from the Pacific Northwest. The Democrats had past segregationists and still segregationist mixed up with Northern liberals. The parties make more sense now. I mean, they're more coherent. It's just the politics that comes of their attempting to work together makes less sense.

BROOKS: But think about how bad a period - 30 years ago, the Soviet Union was beginning its collapse. The wall was about to fall.

SIEGEL: Yep.

BROOKS: We thought we were in the advance of civil liberal democracy. It's pretty much been downhill (laughter) ever since. And so that to me is the major trend - the collapse of what we thought was an advance of liberal democracy, a move to the center, and we're all going to have free democracies. That's not happening, and a lot of people are upset - legitimately upset about it.

I think the most significant outcome of the release of Wolff's book was that it prompted Trump to boast-tweet that he's "like, really smart" and "a very stable genius," which has certainly put any doubts about whether he's a megalomaniac to rest.
Last edited by ObsessoMom on Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:27 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:22 pm UTC

I'm glad at least some people in the mainstream media seem to realize how the sensationalization of Trump has worked to undermine their credibility.

I also agree overwhelmingly that Bannon's brand is more dangerous than Trump's brand. People get Trump fatigue -- even his supporters will eventually get tired of his relentless tirade of nonsense and narcissism. But Bannon is the sort of awful that lasts. He's the long-distant swimmer of neo-reactionary movements.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:01 pm UTC

Bannon is Ignatius in A Confederacy of Dunces.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:27 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Bannon is Ignatius in A Confederacy of Dunces.

I totally got that without having to Google that...

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is ... -possibly/
Trump (and all presidents) are above the law. If you can't impeach him, you'll have to wait until his term is over to safely put this corrupt incompetent ass in jail.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Quercus » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

sardia wrote:https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-president-trump-above-the-law-possibly/
Trump (and all presidents) are above the law. If you can't impeach him, you'll have to wait until his term is over to safely put this corrupt incompetent ass in jail.


Yeah, that's kind of a shitty situation... we're in uncharted constitutional territory here folks.

This reminds me to let people here know about What Trump Can Teach Us About Con(stitutional) Law. It's a podcast by Roman Mars (of 99 percent invisible), so it's really, really good.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:09 pm UTC

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -fire-fury
Looks like Bannon figured out he has no allies nor any income stream. He's saying he misspoke when he said Trump was treasonous, he meant manafort, which totally sounds like Trump...
If this doesn't work, maybe Bannon will have to sell himself as a snitch on *gasp* CNN.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby bantler » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:08 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:He's not perfect, and I do wish he'd just shut up and be a President sometimes, but he is (so far) by far the best president we've had in 30 years.


Trump was fortunate to elect into an economy at full-sale thanks to Obama's eight years as Captain.
His ability to not capsize his first year is hardly deserving of accolades..

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:33 pm UTC

From what I understand, the economy improved because businesses were sure they were going to get a Republican style tax system. Which they mostly did, and it allows companies to repatriate the money that's been sitting overseas for years now. Basically the major corporations have sort of been holding the US economy hostage until they got a deal they liked, and has little to do with any brilliant strategy on trumps end.

But even if we give this to Trump, very long term it's probably going to be worse.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:43 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:From what I understand, the economy improved because businesses were sure they were going to get a Republican style tax system. Which they mostly did, and it allows companies to repatriate the money that's been sitting overseas for years now. Basically the major corporations have sort of been holding the US economy hostage until they got a deal they liked, and has little to do with any brilliant strategy on trumps end.

But even if we give this to Trump, very long term it's probably going to be worse.


Presidents ride on the coattails of the economy of the prior administration. It simply takes too long for presidential actions to take effect on the economy as a whole, or to counter prior administration policies. We'll be able to see what the effect of the Trump Republican policies are on the economy in about 3-7 more years.

Linkage: NYT article about recent presidents and economic impact.

Consider: The tax plan that was passed at the end of last year doesn't take effect until this year. That effect is partly felt in take-home pay this year, but the big economic payoff won't be until next year when everyone (companies included) are filing their year-end taxes. That's two years in to the administration. Even then that's just the change at the boardroom level. At the beginning of next year corporate executives will know how much more(or less) they will have to budget with. That spending won't actually hit statistically relevant economic numbers for -another- year. You're looking at a minimum of three years in to a presidential administration, even given aggressive policy moves by that administration, to really know what the economic impact of a president (and the congress that they're dealing with) is going to be.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:50 pm UTC

See also: how everyone blames the 2008 crash on Obama, who didn't even take office until 2009 but presided over all the after-effects of the Bush era.

(Also, the too-big-to-fail bailouts, which Bush started on his way out the door, and Obama admittedly did continue, but you never hear about the "Bush bailouts").

(Fun fact: my first Google result for "Obama bailout" is the link above).
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:04 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:From what I understand, the economy improved because businesses were sure they were going to get a Republican style tax system. Which they mostly did, and it allows companies to repatriate the money that's been sitting overseas for years now. Basically the major corporations have sort of been holding the US economy hostage until they got a deal they liked, and has little to do with any brilliant strategy on trumps end.

But even if we give this to Trump, very long term it's probably going to be worse.

Long term, the US is pretty fuckedwith Obama at the helm. Trump being in charge makes it worse, and it just lets him pillage what's left. Sure the GOP tax plan doesn't help and squanders resources but that isn't the biggest issue. Trump (and the base that supports dumb positions) is consuming the seeds of innovation in the US. Trade barriers shrink the economy*, and hitting immigration means dependence on an older dumber workforce. The Chinese are already taking back the best and brightest with more research money, why chase grad students out? the problems of the US are pretty grave. Even with above average leaders like Obama, it would have been a struggle to fix at best and impossible at worse. With Trump at the helm, he keeps pouring gas on the fire, except he's stealing the gas from the strategic petroleum reserve.

*Yea, I'm saying a faster growing economy is more important than the desires of a select few.
Edited for clarity.
Last edited by sardia on Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:15 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.


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