Trump presidency

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:13 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:How is project veritas anything new? Yellow journalism and propaganda isn't just old, but if anything likely predates actual journalism.


Yes, just two years ago, we had those heavily-edited videos "proving" that Planned Parenthood was selling aborted fetuses.

It ceases to be investigative journalism when you doctor the evidence to support your own agenda. It's like all that "science" underwritten by industries that directly benefit from public acceptance of certain findings and not others.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:16 pm UTC

I thought that Acorn stuff was older than that? But I'm referring to yellow journalism masquerading as real news. Quite sure that always existed, and was far more prevalent than news itself *cough*jaygould*cough*, it's only today we notice it.

CBusAlex
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:47 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CBusAlex » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:41 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:But if they fail utterly and completely, like they did here? They'll do everything they can to either 1) Obscure the fact that they even tried, or 2) Rewrite the narrative to make it look like a 'success'.


To be honest, I don't think "trick WaPo into publishing a fake story" was necessarily even the goal here, so much as "trick WaPo into saying stuff on camera that can be edited to make it look like they're out to get Moore". Hence the lady's bizarre obsession with getting someone to tell her that Moore would lose the election because of her story.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 954
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:06 pm UTC

CBusAlex wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:But if they fail utterly and completely, like they did here? They'll do everything they can to either 1) Obscure the fact that they even tried, or 2) Rewrite the narrative to make it look like a 'success'.


To be honest, I don't think "trick WaPo into publishing a fake story" was necessarily even the goal here, so much as "trick WaPo into saying stuff on camera that can be edited to make it look like they're out to get Moore". Hence the lady's bizarre obsession with getting someone to tell her that Moore would lose the election because of her story.

Yeah, they even did that when the WaPo tracked down the Veritas guy and he released a super-edited version of the interaction. The WaPo accordingly released the whole video.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2730
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:34 pm UTC

CBusAlex wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:But if they fail utterly and completely, like they did here? They'll do everything they can to either 1) Obscure the fact that they even tried, or 2) Rewrite the narrative to make it look like a 'success'.


To be honest, I don't think "trick WaPo into publishing a fake story" was necessarily even the goal here, so much as "trick WaPo into saying stuff on camera that can be edited to make it look like they're out to get Moore". Hence the lady's bizarre obsession with getting someone to tell her that Moore would lose the election because of her story.

That kind of shows a misunderstanding, not so much of journalism, but of the world. Even if they were out to get him, why would anybody guarantee that the guy would lose? Surely she should have been trying to get them to say that they hoped he'd lose as a result, or that they'd spin it in a way that made that more likely?

I thought the WaPo article went a bit far with the self-righteousness. Isn't "misrepresenting themselves" what all undercover reporters do?
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3671
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:39 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:I thought the WaPo article went a bit far with the self-righteousness. Isn't "misrepresenting themselves" what all undercover reporters do?
It wasn't just 'misrepresentation' it was trying to feed a fake story to WaPo, that's a lot further than most undercover reporters go, who usually are undercover to be able to report on some sort of malpractice/fraud they find in business or government. This wasn't just misrepresentation, it was entrapment.
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6874
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:07 pm UTC

CBusAlex wrote:To be honest, I don't think "trick WaPo into publishing a fake story" was necessarily even the goal here, so much as "trick WaPo into saying stuff on camera that can be edited to make it look like they're out to get Moore". Hence the lady's bizarre obsession with getting someone to tell her that Moore would lose the election because of her story.
Yeah, I forgot that aspect of the story (that the woman insisted on trying to get them to say that this would stop Moore from getting elected).
Dark567 wrote:It wasn't just 'misrepresentation' it was trying to feed a fake story to WaPo, that's a lot further than most undercover reporters go, who usually are undercover to be able to report on some sort of malpractice/fraud they find in business or government. This wasn't just misrepresentation, it was entrapment.
Yes -- there's a significant difference between "I'm going to lie to you about who I am so I can get to the truth" versus "I'm going to lie to you about who I am so I can get you to do and say the things I want you to say".

It's the difference between a police officer going undercover to find evidence of a drug ring -- versus a police officer going undercover to manufacture evidence of a drug ring.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:21 pm UTC

Nah, it's more like editing the notes and recordings to get a fake confession of a drug ring without even bothering to plant drugs and so forth. Oh and the officer has a history of this, like not wink wink nudge nudge but openly caught on camera faking this, yet somehow hasn't lost his badge.

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2730
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:01 am UTC

Dark567 wrote:
orthogon wrote:I thought the WaPo article went a bit far with the self-righteousness. Isn't "misrepresenting themselves" what all undercover reporters do?
It wasn't just 'misrepresentation' it was trying to feed a fake story to WaPo, that's a lot further than most undercover reporters go, who usually are undercover to be able to report on some sort of malpractice/fraud they find in business or government. This wasn't just misrepresentation, it was entrapment.

Sure, I wasn't saying what they did in general was OK, I was referring specifically to this bit of the article:
The Washington Post wrote:... Project Veritas said it was seeking 12 new “undercover reporters,” though the organization’s operatives use methods that are eschewed by mainstream journalists, such as misrepresenting themselves.

That implies that the misrepresentation alone was inappropriate; my point was that an undercover reporter necessarily misrepresents themself.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

elasto
Posts: 3130
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:03 pm UTC

'Eschew' is perhaps too strong a word for them to have used, but, in general, a journalist's job is to report the news, not to manufacture it. If you need an inside scoop, you should find someone on the inside willing to go on the record.

If going undercover is the only way to get a story, you should do so as a passive observer (where any misrepresentation is irrelevant), not as an active participant (where your misrepresentation causes something to happen that otherwise wouldn't have - aka entrapment).

It's the difference between getting a job as an low-level orderly in a nursing home and secretly videoing the abuses carried out by staff, and getting a job as manager in the same home and asking staff to carry out those abuses...

User avatar
Jumble
Posts: 1178
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:48 am UTC
Location: London(ish), UK.
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:23 pm UTC

I’m sorry all. While you’re arguing semantics your elected fuckwit is busily undermining everything your military and diplomatic people, and me and mine have risked our lives to try to resolve. We’ve both lost people for the cause he undermines because he doesn’t give a shit.

Jesus fucking Christ. Seriously, after a couple of months back with my family I’m out in the Middle East again. This is the day Fucking Trump retweet’s anti-Muslim shit from a disgraced tiny UK fascist group as fact.

Yes, not diplomatic, again, but I’ve be traveling for 14 hours. I’m once again in a dusty shit-hole. And I’m furious with this pointless, mysoginist, half-wit fascist fucker.
Spoiler:
Giant Speck wrote:You're a demon! DEMON!!!!

Oregonaut wrote:CURSE YOU VILLAIN!!
PhoenixEnigma wrote:Jumble is either the best or worst Santa ever, and I can't figure out which. Possibly both.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:58 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:[snip]...And I’m furious with this pointless, mysoginist, half-wit fascist fucker.


This is my every day.

Have we had discussion on here yet about Trump calling Elizabeth Warren (Who wasn't even at the ceremony) "Pocahontas" in a political jab during a ceremony celebrating Native American veterans who were "code talkers" during the wars, as he's standing in front of a portrait of Andrew "trail of tears" Jackson (that Trump himself had installed), yet? Because that is some fucked up shit.
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 6874
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:46 pm UTC

At this point, if he started throwing out shit like "n*****" -- and people still gave him a pass for it? -- wouldn't even be surprised. I can already imagine the press conferences defending it; the blubbering sounds that would come out of Sean Hannity's fat head to justify it.

If we somehow make it through this alive and intact, I can't imagine what we'll call this period. 'That One Time Where America Completely Lost Its Shit'? I don't know.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:51 pm UTC

Well, we want to live in a post racial society, so obviously that means that we won't get offended at words. If you are offended, it's because of your own prejudices, you racist.

/sarcasm

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:44 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:If we somehow make it through this alive and intact, I can't imagine what we'll call this period. 'That One Time Where America Completely Lost Its Shit'? I don't know.


"That one time when America liked reality TV so much that it elected a B-rate celebrity reality TV star to be president"
"That time when the USA was a hugly racist dumpster-fire of toxic authoritarianism"

Or perhaps to whomever is left after this: "The last president" or "When the USA forfeited it's role on the world stage."
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
eran_rathan
Mostly Wrong
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:36 pm UTC
Location: disoriented

Re: Trump presidency

Postby eran_rathan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:45 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:At this point, if he started throwing out shit like "n*****" -- and people still gave him a pass for it? -- wouldn't even be surprised. I can already imagine the press conferences defending it; the blubbering sounds that would come out of Sean Hannity's fat head to justify it.

If we somehow make it through this alive and intact, I can't imagine what we'll call this period. 'That One Time Where America Completely Lost Its Shit'? I don't know.


the Rise of the Fourth Reich?
"Trying to build a proper foundation for knowledge is blippery."
"Squirrels are crazy enough to be test pilots."
"Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."
nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3671
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:46 pm UTC

"The collapse of Pax-Americana"
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:56 pm UTC

Pax Americana? Hasn't American been at war like, constantly since WWII?

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 3977
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:57 pm UTC

Yes but haven't you heard, war is peace.
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:01 pm UTC

Love is hate. Weakness is strength. Ignorance is wisdom. Trump is competent.

*barf*

Dark567
First one to notify the boards of Rick and Morty Season 3
Posts: 3671
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:12 pm UTC
Location: Everywhere(in the US, I don't venture outside it too often, unfortunately)

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:02 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Pax Americana? Hasn't American been at war like, constantly since WWII?
That was not the phrase I was looking for... Whatever the phrase is that represents America's status as a hyper-power + Cultural semi-domination.

Maybe "The End of Americanization".
I apologize, 90% of the time I write on the Fora I am intoxicated.


Yakk wrote:The question the thought experiment I posted is aimed at answering: When falling in a black hole, do you see the entire universe's future history train-car into your ass, or not?

morriswalters
Posts: 6949
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:21 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:06 pm UTC

There will be no post racial society until there are no races. I might be wrong, but if I am I wish someone could point me in that direction so I can go there if such a place exists. And then we can get on with hating for any of the thousands of other reasons.

Empty Suit will die sooner or later, or he will use his eight and have to step down. If you are feeling really sorry for yourself, take solace that you aren't one of the millions of refugees out there. You could be starving in Syria, or Libya, or say Honduras. It seems to be relative. Isn't this what the technocrats have been saying.

If your goal is to end the Empty Suit regime than kill Twitter. That would make him mute. He's too stupid for any long form of communication. On the other hand everybody who aren't agents of evil might get off the asses next election and elect somebody, who if not smarter, is more attentive to the unintended consequences of his/her speech. You can't win if you don't play. However I personally don't expect miracles.

User avatar
freezeblade
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
Location: Oakland

Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:29 pm UTC

Dark567 wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Pax Americana? Hasn't American been at war like, constantly since WWII?
That was not the phrase I was looking for... Whatever the phrase is that represents America's status as a hyper-power + Cultural semi-domination.

Maybe "The End of Americanization".


"The end of American Exceptionalism" ?
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 5641
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:15 am UTC

The gaslighting of America by its fake president?

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

User avatar
sardia
Posts: 5858
Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:39 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:20 am UTC

ucim wrote:The gaslighting of America by its fake president?

Jose

Drinking the partisanship koolaid didn't start with Trump, though Trump does exacerbate the situation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/us/p ... ussia.html
In other news, Trump's son in law is being interviewed by Mueller's team. Nothing bombshelly yet, but I'm sure it'll make Trump nervous given how god awful Jared is. Well, not awful, more like...out of his depth. Like a undeserving rich kid who got into ivy league school cuz of his rich parents.

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 5641
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:51 am UTC

sardia wrote:
ucim wrote:The gaslighting of America by its fake president?

Drinking the partisanship koolaid didn't start with Trump, though Trump does exacerbate the situation.
I'm not talking about partisanship, I'm talking about the wholesale attack on the very idea of truth mattering. Generally, politicians lie because they realize that the idea of truth is important, and they want us to accept their version of it. The way I see it, Trump lies for the purpose of undermining the very idea that truth makes any difference at all. That's what makes him so dangerous. If we end up accepting this, there's nothing left holding him back.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 954
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:01 am UTC

ucim wrote:
sardia wrote:
ucim wrote:The gaslighting of America by its fake president?

Drinking the partisanship koolaid didn't start with Drumpf, though Drumpf does exacerbate the situation.
I'm not talking about partisanship, I'm talking about the wholesale attack on the very idea of truth mattering. Generally, politicians lie because they realize that the idea of truth is important, and they want us to accept their version of it. The way I see it, Drumpf lies for the purpose of undermining the very idea that truth makes any difference at all. That's what makes him so dangerous. If we end up accepting this, there's nothing left holding him back.

At least he's kinda old.

Though to be honest I'm a little afraid of what the reaction might be from some groups if he has a natural heart attack or stroke.
He wondered could you eat the mushrooms, would you die, do you care.

User avatar
Pfhorrest
Posts: 3977
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:11 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:13 am UTC

Liri wrote:Though to be honest I'm a little afraid of what the reaction might be from some groups if he has a natural heart attack or stroke.

If that were to happen it would obviously be the consequence of a liberal muslim socialist conspiracy, i.e. it would be Obama assassinating yet another righteous God-fearing American citizen via chemtrails directed from his secret Hollow Earth base beneath Hawaii. (How else do you think the Reptillians get in and out? Through volcanoes!)
Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of All Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
The Codex Quaerendae (my philosophy) - The Chronicles of Quelouva (my fiction)

User avatar
Sableagle
Ormurinn's Alt
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
Location: The wrong side of the mirror
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:44 am UTC

sardia wrote:Well, not awful, more like...out of his depth. Like a undeserving rich kid who got into ivy league school cuz of his rich parents.
Isn't that how his father and GWB got in?
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

jewish_scientist
Posts: 680
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 3:15 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:47 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:Seriously, after a couple of months back with my family I’m out in the Middle East again. This is the day Fucking Trump retweet’s anti-Muslim shit from a disgraced tiny UK fascist group as fact.

Veteran Tory MP Sir Nicholas Soames said Mr Trump had finally proved he is "wholly unsuited" to the role of president.

Buddy, that ship sailed away a long time ago.

elasto
Posts: 3130
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 1:53 am UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:01 pm UTC

More significantly, our PM Teresa May has said Trump was wrong to promote a far-right fascist group in the UK, and Trump has replied basically telling her to shut it (though first he tweeted at the wrong person - someone with only six followers - before getting the right one).

Makes it even more brainless for us to be exiting the EU at this time. Yeah, we're really going to be getting a great trade deal from 'America First' Trump aren't we...

speising
Posts: 2080
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:54 pm UTC
Location: wien

Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:41 pm UTC

Regarding this affair, Sarah Huckabee Sanders confirmed that fake news are ok, as long as they advance your agenda.

"Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," Sanders told reporters Wednesday, according to a CBS News reporter. "His goal is to promote strong border security and strong national security."

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:00 pm UTC

speising wrote:Regarding this affair, Sarah Huckabee Sanders confirmed that fake news are ok, as long as they advance your agenda.

"Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," Sanders told reporters Wednesday, according to a CBS News reporter. "His goal is to promote strong border security and strong national security."


This is hardly unique to Trump. It's notorious in the "soft" sciences and humanities where people will latch onto a narrative and anything that contradicts it is fake while anything that supports it is gospel. This is why the hard sciences disdain the others. In hard science, there is rarely multiple right answers; the rules of physics and the natural world are immutable, we just don't know exactly what they are and are constantly testing what we assume the rules are to get closer to the true rules. But in humanities and soft sciences, you can have competing theories all with evidence for and against, and if your side is bullshit you don't have a clear cut way to determine so.

For example, the books Black Swan, The Bell Curve, Germs Guns and Steel (I think that's the name), and Peoples History of the US are all full of specious claims mixed with a bit of truth, yet all have their die-hard supporters and opponents depending on whether the books support or oppose their own narratives.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7560
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:33 pm UTC

That's a huge load of condescending bullshit. So what, there's never been rivalry in so-called exact sciences on the correct interpretations and theories? you don't have huge supporters and opponents in it? That's crap. And you should know better than to say "You have no clear cut way to determine a theory" in soft sciences, because you know damn well that's true for exact sciences as well. The best you can do is say a theory is wrong, you can never say a theory is The Truth.

As for Trump's chipping at the value of truth, that's different - all these proponents of theories you talk about believe in the truth value of their claims, and believe in the evidence that supports it or have reasoning (flawed or not) as to why a specific piece of evidence should be excluded. What was being said here is "We don't care if it's real or not, the truth value is irrelevant". It's not the same thing.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Nov 30, 2017 4:53 pm UTC

There's rivalries and disputes, obviously, and the hard sciences have no shortage of people who are set in their ways and refuse to look at evidence. That's what happens when you staff your facilities with humans. But with something like Economics, of which I sort of have a degree in, you can have Austrians Chicagoans and Keynesians all argue with each other without a definitive way of saying which one is right or wrong (I happen to be a post-Keynesian). International relations has idealists liberals and realists and none is really right or wrong.

In some ways it makes soft sciences tougher, and you'd be an idiot to say that humanities and social sciences are unimportant. It's just why hard sciences sneer at them.

User avatar
Zohar
COMMANDER PORN
Posts: 7560
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:45 pm UTC
Location: Denver

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zohar » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:33 pm UTC

Again, all of this is true for people who support different interpretations of QM, for example.
Mighty Jalapeno: "See, Zohar agrees, and he's nice to people."
SecondTalon: "Still better looking than Jesus."

Not how I say my name

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:39 pm UTC

That's why string theory is most charitably a proto-science, not a real science.

Prefanity
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:28 am UTC
Location: Reno, NV

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Prefanity » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:06 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
speising wrote:Regarding this affair, Sarah Huckabee Sanders confirmed that fake news are ok, as long as they advance your agenda.

"Whether it's a real video, the threat is real," Sanders told reporters Wednesday, according to a CBS News reporter. "His goal is to promote strong border security and strong national security."


This is hardly unique to Trump. It's notorious in the "soft" sciences and humanities where people will latch onto a narrative and anything that contradicts it is fake while anything that supports it is gospel. This is why the hard sciences disdain the others.


If you think empiricism doesn't matter in the humanities and soft sciences, that empiricism accounts for all epistemology, or that rhetoric doesn't matter to the hard sciences, I don't think you paid enough attention in your college courses. Now, if you're merely sharing a view commonly held by those studying or practicing in the hard sciences, well, I suppose I should cultivate a dimmer view of people in those fields.

User avatar
eran_rathan
Mostly Wrong
Posts: 1712
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:36 pm UTC
Location: disoriented

Re: Trump presidency

Postby eran_rathan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:28 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:This is hardly unique to Trump. It's notorious in the "soft" sciences and humanities where people will latch onto a narrative and anything that contradicts it is fake while anything that supports it is gospel. This is why the hard sciences disdain the others. In hard science, there is rarely multiple right answers; the rules of physics and the natural world are immutable, we just don't know exactly what they are and are constantly testing what we assume the rules are to get closer to the true rules. But in humanities and soft sciences, you can have competing theories all with evidence for and against, and if your side is bullshit you don't have a clear cut way to determine so.



If you think this, then you don't understand science, particularly the hard sciences. Or statistics.
"Trying to build a proper foundation for knowledge is blippery."
"Squirrels are crazy enough to be test pilots."
"Google tells me you are not unique. You are, however, wrong."
nɒʜƚɒɿ_nɒɿɘ

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 8876
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:15 pm UTC

Varies by field. Sociology, at least the quantitative portion, is surprisingly hard with the stats and data, and deserves a lot more respect. Psychology too, except evo-psych. History is probably the most undervalued field (There's a reason dictators purge them first), but egyptologists tend to be a bit off. Economics, as I mentioned, well... Randall hates literacy criticism, I haven't had much interaction with those folks so I wouldn't know. Communications seems to get a lot of flak but I don't know enough to criticize.

I personally just have a vendetta against the postmodernism portion of soft sciences, but otherwise it's mostly just teasing.

As for hard sciences, I joke at string theorists, but I'm waiting to find out what the answers are.

But back to Trump. Tillerson almost out


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests