Trump presidency

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Tyndmyr
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:30 pm UTC

Zohar wrote:That's a huge load of condescending bullshit. So what, there's never been rivalry in so-called exact sciences on the correct interpretations and theories? you don't have huge supporters and opponents in it? That's crap. And you should know better than to say "You have no clear cut way to determine a theory" in soft sciences, because you know damn well that's true for exact sciences as well. The best you can do is say a theory is wrong, you can never say a theory is The Truth.


It's more a difference of degree than kind. I dare say we demonstrate the existence of a new particle to vastly higher tolerances than we demand for sociology.

It's fair, of course, to point out that divisions, human error, and side taking are everywhere, and science has no short supply of it. And, even if some fields are more rigorous than others, it doesn't explain all interdisciplinary disdain, I think. Human factors apply there as well.

Regardless, I wouldn't categorize Trump as much of a scientist of any sort. And even if we, too, make Trump like errors on occasion, the rate at which they are made matters a great deal.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:29 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:Regardless, I wouldn't categorize Trump as much of a scientist of any sort. And even if we, too, make Trump like errors on occasion, the rate at which they are made matters a great deal.
"Not a scientist" is pretty far from "flat earther". Mind you, I'm not calling Trump a flat earther; I don't think he cares what shape the earth is (in). But he is heading for the point where he could proclaim the earth to be flat and not lose any support.

That is the undercutting of the very idea of truth.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:58 pm UTC

The guy who temporarily deleted Trump…

Sounds exactly as simple as it probably was.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:37 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote: It's notorious in the "soft" sciences and humanities where people will latch onto a narrative and anything that contradicts it is fake while anything that supports it is gospel.


Spoiler:
Dr. Barry Marshall, winner of the 2005 Nobel Prize for proving that stomach cancer and ulcers were caused by a bacteria back in the 1980s wrote: They [previous doctors] made the connection between ulcers, stress, and acid without any proper double-blind studies, but it fit in with what everybody thought...

I presented that work [proving ulcers were caused by a bacteria] at the annual meeting of the Royal Australasian College of Physicians in Perth. That was my first experience of people being totally skeptical. To gastroenterologists, the concept of a germ causing ulcers was like saying that the Earth is flat. After that I realized my paper was going to have difficulty being accepted. You think, “It’s science; it’s got to be accepted.” But it’s not an absolute given. The idea was too weird.

Interviewer: Then you and Robin Warren wrote letters to The Lancet.
Robin’s letter described the bacteria and the fact that they were quite common in people. My letter described the history of these bacteria over the past 100 years. We both knew that we were standing at the edge of a fantastic discovery. At the bottom of my letter I said the bacteria were candidates for the cause of ulcers and stomach cancer.

That letter must have provoked an uproar.
It didn’t. In fact, our letters were so weird that they almost didn’t get published...

During that year [1983] Robin and I wrote the full paper. But everything was rejected. Whenever we presented our stuff to gastroenterologists, we got the same campaign of negativism. I had this discovery that could undermine a $3 billion industry, not just the drugs but the entire field of endoscopy. Every gastroenterologist was doing 20 or 30 patients a week who might have ulcers, and 25 percent of them would. Because it was a recurring disease that you could never cure, the patients kept coming back. And here I was handing it on a platter to the infectious-disease guys...

It was desperate: I saw people who were almost dying from bleeding ulcers, and I knew all they needed was some antibiotics, but they weren’t my patients. So a patient would sit there bleeding away, taking the acid blockers, and the next morning the bed would be empty. I would ask, “Where did he go?” He’s in the surgical ward; he’s had his stomach removed...

What led up to your most famous and most dangerous experiment, testing your theory on yourself?
I had a patient with gastritis. I got the bacteria and cultured them, then worked out which antibiotics could kill his infection in the lab—in this case, bismuth plus metronidazole. I treated the patient and did an endoscopy to make sure his infection was gone. After that I swizzled the organisms around in a cloudy broth and drank it the next morning. My stomach gurgled, and after five days I started waking up in the morning saying, “Oh, I don’t feel good,” and I’d run in the bathroom and vomit. Once I got it off my stomach, I would be good enough to go to work, although I was feeling tired and not sleeping so well. After 10 days I had an endoscopy that showed the bacteria were everywhere. There was all this inflammation, and gastritis had developed...

You published a synthesis of this work in The Medical Journal of Australia in 1985. Then did people change their thinking?
No, it sat there as a hypothesis for another 10 years. Some patients heard about it, but gastroenterologists still would not treat them with antibiotics. Instead, they would focus on the possible complications of antibiotics. By 1985 I could cure just about everybody, and patients were coming to me in secret—for instance, airline pilots who didn’t want to let anyone know that they had an ulcer.

So how did you finally convince the medical community?
I didn’t understand it at the time, but Procter & Gamble [the maker of Pepto-Bismol] was the largest client of Hill & Knowlton, the public relations company. After I came to work in the States, publicity would come out. Stories had titles like “Guinea-Pig Doctor Experiments on Self and Cures Ulcer,” and Reader’s Digest and the National Enquirer covered it. Our credibility might have dropped a bit, but interest in our work built. Whenever someone said, “Oh, Dr. Marshall, it’s not proven,” I’d say: “Well, there’s a lot at stake here. People are dying from peptic ulcers. We need to accelerate the process.” And ultimately, the NIH and FDA did that. They fast-tracked a lot of this knowledge into the United States and said to the journals: “We can’t wait for you guys to conduct these wonderful, perfect studies. We’re going to move forward and get the news out.” That happened quite quickly in the end. Between 1993 and 1996, the whole country changed color.


So is biology a humanity now?

Soupspoon wrote:The guy who temporarily deleted Trump…

Sounds exactly as simple as it probably was.

Now we just need someone to take down a Fox News video for copyright infringement.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:22 am UTC

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... -on-board/
Opposition to the tax bill is falling as senators who opposed the bill switched to yes with only token gestures from GOP leadership. This bill looks like it's going to pass.

Update: the bill hit delays because everyone is bad at everything. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/th ... to-govern/
I mean, this is good for Democrats and saves the federal budget for more important and effective uses... If the GOP is so incompetent that they can't even cut taxes. I don't even know anymore.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:27 pm UTC

In fairness, the GOP are often not very good at cutting taxes. They tax and spend plenty, regardless of what they say.

So, this sounds about right historically.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:32 pm UTC

Eh, they did manage to lower your income taxes under Bush, assuming you are in the highest tax bracket.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby LaserGuy » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:35 pm UTC

So Michael Flynn has just plead guilty to colluding with the Russians. Flynn is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dark567 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:18 pm UTC

This is looking really bad for Trump. Flynn looks like he entered a guilty plea as a deal with Mueller to testify directly against the administration that Trump directed him to contact the Russian government. Kushner and POTUS are definitely in Mueller's sights.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... -pleading/
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:47 pm UTC

Bloomberg View's take:

Kushner Is Said to Have Ordered Flynn to Contact Russia

Snippets:

Spoiler:
Two former officials with the Trump transition team who worked closely with Flynn say that during the last days of the Obama administration, the retired general was instructed to contact foreign ambassadors and foreign ministers of countries on the U.N. Security Council, ahead of a vote condemning Israeli settlements. Flynn was told to try to get them to delay that vote until after Barack Obama had left office, or oppose the resolution altogether.

That is relevant now because one of Flynn’s lies to the FBI was when he said that he never asked Russia's ambassador to Washington, Sergey Kislyak, to delay the vote for the U.N. Security Council resolution. The indictment released today from the office of special prosecutor Robert Mueller describes this lie: "On or about December 22, 2016, Flynn did not ask the Russian Ambassador to delay the vote on or defeat a pending United Nations Security Council resolution."

[...]

One transition official at the time said Kushner called Flynn to tell him he needed to get every foreign minister or ambassador from a country on the U.N. Security Council to delay or vote against the resolution.

[...]

ABC News reported Friday that Flynn is prepared to tell Mueller's team that Trump had instructed him to make contact with Russia during the campaign itself. If those contacts involved the emails the U.S. intelligence community charges Russia stole from leading Democrats, then Mueller will have uncovered evidence of actual collusion between the president and a foreign adversary during the election. Impeachment could then be in the cards.

But it's also possible that the Justice Department became interested in Flynn's initial conversation with Kislyak on other, less explosive grounds. One leading theory pushed Friday by Democrats involves a violation of a 1799 statute known as the Logan Act. A relic of the John Adams administration, this discredited law makes it illegal for a private U.S. citizen to undermine the foreign policy of a sitting president in contact with a foreign power. No American has ever been successfully prosecuted under that law. Some conservatives urged the George W. Bush administration to prosecute former House speaker Nancy Pelosi under the Logan Act in 2007 when she visited the Syrian dictator, Bashar al-Assad, when the White House was trying to isolate him. Nothing ever came of that.


So Mueller's team might not be able to prove (yet) that Trump colluded with Russia to influence the outcome of the presidential election, but they can probably prove that Flynn and Kushner interfered with policies of a sitting president (Obama). Which is nowhere near as big a deal, per se, but it might be used as leverage to encourage witnesses to testify about other shady doings.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cyanyoshi » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:47 am UTC

US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill. Now it's back to the House to see if both chambers can agree on the final version. Trump may yet get that legislative "victory" in his first year.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:51 am UTC

Well, the GOP tax bill has passed. As expected, it was pretty much a party line vote with one Republican aiding with the Democrats because the bill raises the deficit (a lot!).

I’ve seen other sources that say that a full version of this bill wasn’t even available until a few hours before it was passed, and had many parts crossed out and illegible writing in the margins.

Apparently, this same bill also green lights drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. Why that needs to be in a tax bil is beyond me!

Frankly, I’m stunned to see this mess. Yeah, I’ve never paid much attention to politics, but this is just so uncoordinated and bleh. The biggest tax change in my lifetime wasn’t even revealed until mere hours before it was voted on, and in a seemingly incomplete state! I don’t know if that’s usual, but I hope it gets at least some scrutiny to reconcile it with the house version.

I don’t like the cognitive dissonance there seems to be about the deficit — I mean, I remember hearing the GOP complain for YEARS about how big the deficit was, and now they come and pass this!? Even if there is more economic growth under this plan, it certainly won’t be enough to make up for the deficit it generates. It’s bizarre how seemingly the same people who whined so much about raising the deficit now seem to do so with casual abandon.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:08 am UTC

It shows what kind of massive hypocrites they are. But this was clear from those who were in the Senate since Bush Jr. (and maybe before that but I don't know about before then).

Completely happy to let the deficit go up while fighting two wars of which one has started based on lies. Then Obama takes over and every measure to help the own US citizens they go " TOO EXPENSIVE!". Now is debatable how effective obama was but his efforts to do something in his own county are still better than fighting a war.

Fast forward to the present and the GOP have forgotten about what is too expensive, still can't sort their priorities and their president claims that Obama is the founder of Isis, happily forgetting that Bush started some expensive shitstirring in Iraq.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cyanyoshi » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:12 am UTC

pogrmman wrote:Well, the GOP tax bill has passed. As expected, it was pretty much a party line vote with one Republican aiding with the Democrats because the bill raises the deficit (a lot!).

I’ve seen other sources that say that a full version of this bill wasn’t even available until a few hours before it was passed, and had many parts crossed out and illegible writing in the margins.

Apparently, this same bill also green lights drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge. Why that needs to be in a tax bil is beyond me!

Frankly, I’m stunned to see this mess. Yeah, I’ve never paid much attention to politics, but this is just so uncoordinated and bleh. The biggest tax change in my lifetime wasn’t even revealed until mere hours before it was voted on, and in a seemingly incomplete state! I don’t know if that’s usual, but I hope it gets at least some scrutiny to reconcile it with the house version.

I don’t like the cognitive dissonance there seems to be about the deficit — I mean, I remember hearing the GOP complain for YEARS about how big the deficit was, and now they come and pass this!? Even if there is more economic growth under this plan, it certainly won’t be enough to make up for the deficit it generates. It’s bizarre how seemingly the same people who whined so much about raising the deficit now seem to do so with casual abandon.

If this bill (which will probably worsen the deficit) passes, then the Republican party should drop the pretense of being for fiscal responsibility. Who is anyone kidding? They won't. A lot of this cramming things through can be chalked up to "how the sausage gets made", and what matters is there were enough votes in the Senate to move things along. Call it corruption or looking out for their constituents' interests, but cutting last-minute deals that have nothing to do with the intention of the law itself is not at all uncommon. This isn't the final version, but it is still a very important step to getting a sweeping tax reform bill on the president's desk.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Zamfir » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:16 am UTC


I don’t like the cognitive dissonance there seems to be about the deficit — I mean, I remember hearing the GOP complain for YEARS about how big the deficit was, and now they come and pass this!?

Every party is more hawkish on the deficit when they are not doing the spending. That's not so pernicious, IMO. It's a reasonable ranking: stuff we value first, then the deficit, then stuff the others value. The stuff everyone values is not under discussion.

Also, it doesn't appear to be that much. The numbers are high, because the US is big. But these deficit changes are less then a percent of GDP. That's within the realm of yearly budget changes if they want to make up for it. Of course, that implies future spending cuts, presumably in areas that are popular with the democrats.

I mean, right wing parties want to cut taxes, and pay for it by cutting public spending, especially on welfare programs. It's one of their main, consistent points, not a secret. The US voted them in power.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:48 am UTC

jewish_scientist wrote:
Spoiler:
Dr. Barry Marshall, winner of the 2005 Nobel Prize for proving that stomach cancer and ulcers were caused by a bacteria back in the 1980s wrote: ... [proving ulcers were caused by a bacteria] ... Robin’s letter described the bacteria and the fact that they were quite common in people. ... At the bottom of my letter I said the bacteria were candidates for the cause of ulcers and stomach cancer. ... I got the bacteria and cultured them, ... an endoscopy that showed the bacteria were everywhere.
Even when reporting an interview with a scientist who's getting in right, journalists just don't seem to be able to get their heads around the idea of "bacteria" being the plural of "bacterium."

Then they start getting "bacteria" and "virus" mixed up and then people make a nuisance of themselves, demanding antibiotics for a viral infection, and then we get even more MRSA.

I feel sorry for any US patriots who joined up under Clinton, were in post when 9/11 happened, served throughout the brief time "we" were working on Afghanistan and most of the world backed us, stuck with it through the Iraq clusterfuck, served throughout Obama's two terms and now find themselves too close to retirement to walk out and stuck with the current C-in-C.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby elasto » Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:19 pm UTC

Sableagle wrote:Even when reporting an interview with a scientist who's getting in right, journalists just don't seem to be able to get their heads around the idea of "bacteria" being the plural of "bacterium."

Strictly speaking you're right, but I see it as a contraction:

Dr. Barry Marshall, winner of the 2005 Nobel Prize for proving that stomach cancer and ulcers were caused by a [type of] bacteria back in the 1980s"... Robin’s letter described the bacteria and the fact that they were quite common in people...


Anyhow, language evolves; Using die as the singular of dice seems pretty uncommon, for example, and I don't think it's a big deal.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Sat Dec 02, 2017 1:36 pm UTC

Indeed, or shortening ‘racist, misogynistic, half-wit thug’ to ‘president’.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:07 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:Indeed, or shortening ‘racist, misogynistic, half-wit thug’ to ‘president’.

The word that comes to my mind whenever I see his sickening fucking face is even shorter.

It was reassuring to hear unanimous condemnation on last night's Any Questions?. Even Tory Damian Collins seemed to suggest that the invitation for a state visit ought to be rescinded. I don't think he's going to come anyway, but the symbolism of saying "we don't tolerate bigots who spout this kind of shit" would be worthwhile. I'd also like to see a more explicit "we respect and stand by our old friend and ally, the USA; it's your bastard president and his ever-shrinking cabal that we take issue with".
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby eran_rathan » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:33 pm UTC

I'd be content if he was arrested for hate speech somewhere overseas & the State Department refused his re-entry to the US. I know, diplomatic immunity and all that, but it would please me immensely.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:41 pm UTC

It would still be satisfying if they formally expelled him.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:13 pm UTC

Can I remind you that your alternative is Pence? You do risk replacing Satan’s half-wit, incompetent, in-bred cousin with his way smarter image consultant.

At the moment the Maybot doesn’t have ‘rescind invitation’ in her 8 pre-programmed phrases. However, as far as I can tell from my sample audience of upper middle class moderate liberals (including the one person I know who is happy to admit they voted for brexit), he will be as welcome as a normal human being at a Klue Klux Clan meeting. It could be quite funny if you send the c-in-chief over here, given his pathetically fragile ego combined with how much the vast majority of the British public (even the racist Dailly Mail-reading section) detest the abhorrent little racist shit.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:17 pm UTC

orthogon wrote: Even Tory Damian Collins seemed to suggest that the invitation for a state visit ought to be rescinded. I don't think he's going to come anyway, but the symbolism of saying "we don't tolerate bigots who spout this kind of shit" would be worthwhile. I'd also like to see a more explicit "we respect and stand by our old friend and ally, the USA; it's your bastard president and his ever-shrinking cabal that we take issue with".
I don't like Empty Suit, but to be honest it would be stupid to engage him in that fashion. It's a game he plays well and provides another distraction that wouldn't be useful. Which is why I suspect the Diplomatic Corps in your country is counseling restraint. Except for Jumble. This however is just my opinion. The people of UK should act as they see fit.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Prefanity » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:31 am UTC

Sableagle wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote:
Spoiler:
Dr. Barry Marshall, winner of the 2005 Nobel Prize for proving that stomach cancer and ulcers were caused by a bacteria back in the 1980s wrote: ... [proving ulcers were caused by a bacteria] ... Robin’s letter described the bacteria and the fact that they were quite common in people. ... At the bottom of my letter I said the bacteria were candidates for the cause of ulcers and stomach cancer. ... I got the bacteria and cultured them, ... an endoscopy that showed the bacteria were everywhere.
Even when reporting an interview with a scientist who's getting in right, journalists just don't seem to be able to get their heads around the idea of "bacteria" being the plural of "bacterium."

Then they start getting "bacteria" and "virus" mixed up and then people make a nuisance of themselves, demanding antibiotics for a viral infection, and then we get even more MRSA.

The bacteria/bacterium is sort of a quirk of the rhetorical situation. I checked with the online AP Stylebook, which pulls definitions from Webster's New World College Dictionary, and both singular forms are acceptable; and all this shows is that the genre expectations are different between science writing and journalistic writing. Now in a science writing setting, obviously the expectations would necessitate use of bacterium, but that's just not true for media outlets (except, perhaps, those media outlets reporting exclusively on science). Admittedly, I think bacterium should be the preferred singular form because I don't think a lay reader cares either way (and non-lay readers do care), but I don't think we can realistically say journalists are getting it wrong. Conflating bacterium and virus, however...

elasto wrote:Anyhow, language evolves; Using die as the singular of dice seems pretty uncommon, for example, and I don't think it's a big deal.

Not in my state!

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:27 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
orthogon wrote: Even Tory Damian Collins seemed to suggest that the invitation for a state visit ought to be rescinded. I don't think he's going to come anyway, but the symbolism of saying "we don't tolerate bigots who spout this kind of shit" would be worthwhile. I'd also like to see a more explicit "we respect and stand by our old friend and ally, the USA; it's your bastard president and his ever-shrinking cabal that we take issue with".
I don't like Empty Suit, but to be honest it would be stupid to engage him in that fashion. It's a game he plays well and provides another distraction that wouldn't be useful. Which is why I suspect the Diplomatic Corps in your country is counseling restraint. Except for Jumble. This however is just my opinion. The people of UK should act as they see fit.


You're right, of course. I knew even as I was writing it that it's not really a good idea, since interfering in the question of who the people of another sovereign state should and shouldn't have as their democratically elected leader is exactly the sort of thing that Trump does; see for example his constant attacks on London's Mayor Saddiq Khan. That kind of attack tends to invite backlash even from the people who are no fans of the politician in question. As you say, diplomats know what they're doing and know how to get that message across in the subtext without coming out and saying it explicitly.

Spoiler:
Prefanity wrote:
elasto wrote:Anyhow, language evolves; Using die as the singular of dice seems pretty uncommon, for example, and I don't think it's a big deal.

Not in my state!

Here too. You're dicing, if not with death, certainly with social opprobium. Educated people take a viri dim view of that.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:51 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:Which is why I suspect the Diplomatic Corps in your country is counseling restraint. Except for Jumble. This however is just my opinion. The people of UK should act as they see fit.


Nice. Thank you. As I have explained previously the views I express on here are not related to the actions I take in my dusty room in King Charles Street. I have personal opinions, and frankly I didn’t vote for any of this shit. However, I am a public servant in a democracy so I do my best to discharge government policy as well as I can.

If you would all prefer I spoke as I do at work then there’s no problem. However you’ll probably find it rather dull and I shall find it tedious and stop.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:43 am UTC

Jumble wrote:If you would all prefer I spoke as I do at work then there’s no problem. However you’ll probably find it rather dull and I shall find it tedious and stop.
No, but if you can vent your frustration, then you should expect me to point out another point of view. And to me, that is as it should be.

I didn't vote for him either, and I'm at a stage in my life where bad national policy on a number of fronts can hurt me directly since I do live here. I fear the uncertainty he represents in much the same way you might fear Brexit.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:18 pm UTC

Zamfir wrote:

I don’t like the cognitive dissonance there seems to be about the deficit — I mean, I remember hearing the GOP complain for YEARS about how big the deficit was, and now they come and pass this!?

Every party is more hawkish on the deficit when they are not doing the spending. That's not so pernicious, IMO. It's a reasonable ranking: stuff we value first, then the deficit, then stuff the others value. The stuff everyone values is not under discussion.

Also, it doesn't appear to be that much. The numbers are high, because the US is big. But these deficit changes are less then a percent of GDP. That's within the realm of yearly budget changes if they want to make up for it. Of course, that implies future spending cuts, presumably in areas that are popular with the democrats.

I mean, right wing parties want to cut taxes, and pay for it by cutting public spending, especially on welfare programs. It's one of their main, consistent points, not a secret. The US voted them in power.


Future budget cuts are always easier than present budget cuts, but a lot of 'em always get rolled back. Nature of two parties being in power, ten year plans, etc. The US hasn't actually gone full austerity in...a long time, at least. Most stuff is just business as usual, yeah.

All in all, the tax bill doesn't seem too awful. Sure, the priorities are very Republican, but that seems to be roughly as expected. There's sausage making involved, and...something akin to an Obamacare-shot at procedure, if one cares about that sort of thing(apparently, most care only when the other party is doing it, seems like). But, I don't expect to actually see our economy melt down, or whatever people are claiming. Eyeballing it roughly, seems like it will save me money...but a comparatively small amount. Negligible change. Results may vary for others, but it shouldn't generally be a dramatic change for most.

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sardia
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:46 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Zamfir wrote:

I don’t like the cognitive dissonance there seems to be about the deficit — I mean, I remember hearing the GOP complain for YEARS about how big the deficit was, and now they come and pass this!?

Every party is more hawkish on the deficit when they are not doing the spending. That's not so pernicious, IMO. It's a reasonable ranking: stuff we value first, then the deficit, then stuff the others value. The stuff everyone values is not under discussion.

Also, it doesn't appear to be that much. The numbers are high, because the US is big. But these deficit changes are less then a percent of GDP. That's within the realm of yearly budget changes if they want to make up for it. Of course, that implies future spending cuts, presumably in areas that are popular with the democrats.

I mean, right wing parties want to cut taxes, and pay for it by cutting public spending, especially on welfare programs. It's one of their main, consistent points, not a secret. The US voted them in power.


Future budget cuts are always easier than present budget cuts, but a lot of 'em always get rolled back. Nature of two parties being in power, ten year plans, etc. The US hasn't actually gone full austerity in...a long time, at least. Most stuff is just business as usual, yeah.

All in all, the tax bill doesn't seem too awful. Sure, the priorities are very Republican, but that seems to be roughly as expected. There's sausage making involved, and...something akin to an Obamacare-shot at procedure, if one cares about that sort of thing(apparently, most care only when the other party is doing it, seems like). But, I don't expect to actually see our economy melt down, or whatever people are claiming. Eyeballing it roughly, seems like it will save me money...but a comparatively small amount. Negligible change. Results may vary for others, but it shouldn't generally be a dramatic change for most.

Aren't the budget numbers worse than printed because the middle class part of the tax cuts are temporary while the corporate/obscene rich parts are permanent.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Jumble » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:32 pm UTC

morriswalters wrote:
Jumble wrote:If you would all prefer I spoke as I do at work then there’s no problem. However you’ll probably find it rather dull and I shall find it tedious and stop.
No, but if you can vent your frustration, then you should expect me to point out another point of view. And to me, that is as it should be.

I didn't vote for him either, and I'm at a stage in my life where bad national policy on a number of fronts can hurt me directly since I do live here. I fear the uncertainty he represents in much the same way you might fear Brexit.

I’m always happy to accept there is another point of view. I take pleasure in trying to see the other view point and accept that I could always be in the wrong. I don’t appreciate the allegations of unprofessionalism. Perhaps I’ve put-stayed my welcome.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Mutex » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:36 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:
morriswalters wrote:
Jumble wrote:If you would all prefer I spoke as I do at work then there’s no problem. However you’ll probably find it rather dull and I shall find it tedious and stop.
No, but if you can vent your frustration, then you should expect me to point out another point of view. And to me, that is as it should be.

I didn't vote for him either, and I'm at a stage in my life where bad national policy on a number of fronts can hurt me directly since I do live here. I fear the uncertainty he represents in much the same way you might fear Brexit.

I’m always happy to accept there is another point of view. I take pleasure in trying to see the other view point and accept that I could always be in the wrong. I don’t appreciate the allegations of unprofessionalism. Perhaps I’ve put-stayed my welcome.

No, don't mind morris.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:02 pm UTC

Well, this is interesting:

Special counsel backs out of bail deal with Paul Manafort, saying he tried to hide a public relations effort

Paul Manafort ghost-wrote an editorial about his political work in Ukraine, violating a court order, according to a new court filing from the special counsel’s office.

[...]

The special counsel’s office, which is investigating whether anyone in Trump’s orbit helped Russia interfere in last year’s presidential campaign, said Manafort helped draft the editorial in recent days, working with a Russian who has ties to that country’s intelligence services.

That writing violated a Nov. 8 court order "prohibiting such out-of-court statements in order to protect the fairness of the upcoming trial,” the court filing said.

“The editorial clearly was undertaken to influence the public’s opinion of defendant Manafort, or else there would be no reason to seek its publication (much less for Manafort and his long-time associate to ghostwrite it in another’s name),” the court filing said. “It compounds the problem that the proposed piece is not a dispassionate recitation of the facts.”

The court filing said Manafort was involved in the editorial as late as Thursday. It did not say whether the editorial was published or identify the Russian that Manafort supposedly worked with.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby morriswalters » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:42 pm UTC

Jumble wrote:I don’t appreciate the allegations of unprofessionalism. Perhaps I’ve put-stayed my welcome.
I"m not in a position to judge your professional competence. My comment was poorly formed. You have my apology for what that is worth to you.

However as a commentator on xkcd you appear to have serious issues with a broad swath of America. When I react to you I am reacting to that. However since you draw that reaction from me I will simply foe you. It reminds me not to comment on your posts. Is that sufficient?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:51 pm UTC

ObsessoMom wrote:Well, this is interesting:

Special counsel backs out of bail deal with Paul Manafort, saying he tried to hide a public relations effort

Paul Manafort ghost-wrote an editorial about his political work in Ukraine, violating a court order, according to a new court filing from the special counsel’s office.
[...]
The special counsel’s office, which is investigating whether anyone in Trump’s orbit helped Russia interfere in last year’s presidential campaign, said Manafort helped draft the editorial in recent days, working with a Russian who has ties to that country’s intelligence services.
That writing violated a Nov. 8 court order "prohibiting such out-of-court statements in order to protect the fairness of the upcoming trial,” the court filing said.
“The editorial clearly was undertaken to influence the public’s opinion of defendant Manafort, or else there would be no reason to seek its publication (much less for Manafort and his long-time associate to ghostwrite it in another’s name),” the court filing said. “It compounds the problem that the proposed piece is not a dispassionate recitation of the facts.”
The court filing said Manafort was involved in the editorial as late as Thursday. It did not say whether the editorial was published or identify the Russian that Manafort supposedly worked with.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 921290001/
Your link sucks.

Interesting that he is so scummy, that he went and backstabbed the plea bargain deal he struck inside a week. Doesn't that mean he loses his 11 million dollar bail that he posted? Which includes his house...?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:13 am UTC

sardia wrote:Your link sucks.


Yeah, sorry, it does. I really need to post a warning when I'm directing people to the Los Angeles Let's Launch Annoying Popups Multiple Times.

The $11.65 million bail agreement was for the more flexible house arrest deal that had been arranged last week, but which hadn't yet been put into action. It wasn't for the current house arrest arrangement.

In exchange for being allowed to break house arrest occasionally so he could travel "to a few states"--rich dudes gotta get out there and press the flesh to keep their empires afloat, you know--Manafort was promising to forfeit $11.65 million in property if he missed a court appearance.

But obviously he can't even be trusted not to do stuff like, say, team up with a Russian spy to write positive PR for himself under someone else's name, after he's been directly ordered by the court to shut the hell up so as not to taint a future jury.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby jewish_scientist » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:So Michael Flynn has just plead guilty to colluding with the Russians. Flynn is cooperating with the Mueller investigation.

FINALLY!

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Sableagle wrote:]Even when reporting an interview with a scientist who's getting in right, journalists just don't seem to be able to get their heads around the idea of "bacteria" being the plural of "bacterium."

I am a little confused. Didn't they use the plural correctly? When talking about a species as a whole, the plural is used e.g. Ducks fly South in the Winter.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:30 pm UTC

In a giant distraction, Trump plans to move embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Massive shitstorm in 3... 2...

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby pogrmman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:04 pm UTC

Well, there’s yet more to be upset about: Trump is shrinking at least two of the National Monuments that were under review earlier this year — by a significant amount.

This is horrible. From what I’ve seen, it looks like Bears Ears is a basically unspoiled version of Mesa Verde that was having issues with vandals and looters. They are unpreotecting some of the ruins there. I’ve been to Grand Staircase - Escalante. It’s a wonderful place! Sure, I only did a hike in one small area, but the terrain is amazing, the skies are extraordinarily dark, and it’s a lot less crowded than most National Parks. I’d love to go back there again to see more of it.

Unfortunately, the latter sits on one of the largest coal deposits in the country. The only reason it hasn’t been exploited yet is because of the National Monument status. This opens it up to mining, which will ruin the landscape and the dark skies. Not to mention the dust, noise pollution, and pollution from burning the coal.

I’m worried about what’s going to happen to the other National Monuments under review. As an outdoorsy person who loves the parks and monuments this country has, it’s super, super, super disappointing. When they had the public commenting period, they had over 2.3 million comments — the vast majority of which supported keeping the monuments intact.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:53 pm UTC

So basically, he is shitting all over Teddy Roosevelt. What next, encouraging trusts and monopolies to form, causing Japan to go to war, adding corruption in the government, and weakening the FDA?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:14 pm UTC

I don't think those are next. I think those are already and also.

Well, maybe causing Japan to go to war is still next. There's been a lot of noise lately about them moving from the defensive-only stance of post-WW2 to a more normal "protect the national interests by whatever means we can get away with" stance, North Korea's just across the water to the west, there's been a lot of sabre-rattling there and in that direction lately ... That could be next.

Might be a good idea to get your daughters out of Nanking.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.


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