Trump presidency

Seen something interesting in the news or on the intertubes? Discuss it here.

Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9996
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

Back to the Trump Presidency.
(Sigh...) Consider the source.
This man worked on FOX for a decade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKuat8VJxq8
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

speising
Posts: 2281
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:54 pm UTC
Location: wien

Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:09 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
Yablo wrote:I always hated the ending of War of the Worlds. It was far too sudden and realistic. It's a great story, but it's definitely one of his weaker ones.


It's kind of a deus ex machina, yeah. I mean, it's absolutely realistic that invaders could fail for oversight entirely unrelated to the defender's actions, but it's narratively really unsatisfying.

Kind of an intractable conflict, but definitely a memorable choice all the same.

that seems to have been kind of en vogue at the time. i mean, look at The Time Machine. the "hero" stumbles through the whole story wihout being able to affect (or effect) a lot, and runs away cowardly when things get hot.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:40 pm UTC

Yablo wrote:I always hated the ending of War of the Worlds. It was far too sudden and realistic. It's a great story, but it's definitely one of his weaker ones.

Given how the initial and almost unswerving downfall of man takes so long as the invasion progresses by degrees, I'm not sure how it could do otherwise. Having an equal up-slope to (say) half-way-back-to-normal would be more a rather typical "things go bad for the idyllic life of our hero, then he finds the means to rise from despair. That's how it looks like it might head with the Artilleryman's plans, except that the narrator doesn't then subscribe to this, join in the effort and help create La Resistance (to regain territory by God-given Earthman English tenacity, by jingo!) showing that humanity was just caught by surprise, not actually outclassed by the upstart Spanish French German Martian invaders.

The point is that humanity isn't master of its own destiny.There was barely anything they did to not fold against the attack, and there seems nothing much they could really do to reverse the fortunes back to their advantage. Ceetainly nothing much in the way that the video-game (whose music I think is currently mindworming me¹) gives to the human-side, with steampunk Victoriana+ capabilities carefully matched against the ramping Martian threat (pre-WW1 appearance of tanks, comoetent enough to not be sizzled on sight, and mole machine land-ironclads to sneak up on Martian resource buildings!).

Mankind, master of the world and hell-bent (before coming under the direct glare of the elder and superior race) on taming nature under the yoke of civilisation, is barely more than a colonisable, enslavable and disposable race in the face of those suddenly landing upon its 'shores'. The superior rebuttal to the outrage subjected upon us is an unconsidered trifle that we could easily have already wiped out if we were the Masters Of All Things On Earth like we thought we were.

Which is an additional blow to humanity's sense of supperiority, as we lick our wounds. The survivors are left with doubt and insecurity, and a cliff-hanger that has been added to (Jeff Wayne's musical ending) and built upon² in a rollercoaster ways that the actual 'and they all lived triumphantly, and happily ever after' would have not so easily have given hooks for.

But that's all IM(H)O, of course.



¹ Because I'm fairly sure that there's some shared compositional history, if not actual re-used acore, used in some of background music in the "Doctor Who: Legacy" tablet match-coloured-things game. I keep meaning to dig up the Jeff Wayne game discs and see if I'm right about that.

² - Too many works to mention, but notably in the forefront of my mind the '80s US TV series based upon the' 50s US converted version, The Space Machine that sequalled and prequelled Wells by using equal parts of The Time Machine, the Martian and British Empire settings in Space: 1889, a series of books in a Primary level schoolbook series that used the world of a tripod invasion (plus flying metallic pterodactyl-like machines!) in one of its story-streams, the '60s book series/'80s TV series The Tripods and Stephen Baxter's recent sequel The Massacre Of Mankind.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:04 pm UTC

speising wrote:
Tyndmyr wrote:
Yablo wrote:I always hated the ending of War of the Worlds. It was far too sudden and realistic. It's a great story, but it's definitely one of his weaker ones.


It's kind of a deus ex machina, yeah. I mean, it's absolutely realistic that invaders could fail for oversight entirely unrelated to the defender's actions, but it's narratively really unsatisfying.

Kind of an intractable conflict, but definitely a memorable choice all the same.

that seems to have been kind of en vogue at the time. i mean, look at The Time Machine. the "hero" stumbles through the whole story wihout being able to affect (or effect) a lot, and runs away cowardly when things get hot.


Yeah, definitely more frequent in older works. Modern stuff, the protaganist is usually pretty actively making thing happen, and that sort of "stuff happens, viewpoint character bumbles through, and mostly runs away" is pretty much limited to Rincewind or the cyberpunk genre.

The latter tends to be due to the same reason, ie, making the protaganist feel fairly small in a large world that he is emphatically not in control of. Different genres, but the theme definitely managed to stick around.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9996
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:20 am UTC

uuumm...What does that have to do with the subject of the Thread?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Soupspoon
You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
Posts: 3652
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
Location: 53-1

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:22 am UTC

I agree.

I rolled with it myself, though, inadvertently.

So let us refocus and continue afresh.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9996
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:13 am UTC

Bows to Soupspoon.
Thank you.

Shall we chat about Novartis, the drug company, and Trump?
Or; The newest attack on the Freedom of Press by Trump?
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6274
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:14 am UTC

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABCPolitics/ ... 6233713664

Pres. Trump on preparation for summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: "I think I'm very well prepared, I don't think I have to prepare very much. It's about attitude, it's about willingness to get things done."


Like, why does anyone think Trump is a good negotiator? He has no fucking clue what he is doing, and this is far beyond anything he has ever had to deal with in terms of complexity. He's 100% pure bullshit and ego, and there is absolutely no evidence that he has any abilities to do anything but market himself. He's proof that capitalism itself rewads the rich while they do nothing but fuck around for status and harm the economy around then.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:52 am UTC

He's rolling dice rather than carefully constructing a strategy, and sometimes that works. But you never want to combine "sometimes" with "nuclear weapons".

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6274
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:10 am UTC

You can get by in real estate just rolling the dice many times knowing you can just walk away and find another deal. That doesn't really work when you have a specific objective.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:47 am UTC

But that's not true in real estate. It's an extremely cutthroat business.

Trump did have an extremely effective strategy in real estate. He borrowed so much that the banks wouldn't dare call his debts, then renegotiated with those banks for debt reduction, then pocketed the money. He would negotiate great deals for contractors, only to refuse to pay because the shell company went bankrupt while, again, he walked away with the money. Eventually everyone got wise and refused to ever deal with Trump again, at which point he went into reality TV and somehow made a fortune on his "brand".

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6274
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:21 am UTC

Real estate is cutthroat, sure, that just means you need connections and leverage. It doesn't mean you need negotiating skills.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:33 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Real estate is cutthroat, sure, that just means you need connections and leverage.


Err, what? That's pretty much exactly how international negotiations work...

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6274
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:50 am UTC

Dude, I wrote two sentences; how hard is it to read both?
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 am UTC

Ability to acquire leverage and connections is more or less the definition of good "negotiating skills".

It's similar to the old saw about armchair generals talking tactics, and real generals talking logistics...

User avatar
Thesh
Made to Fuck Dinosaurs
Posts: 6274
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:55 am UTC
Location: Colorado

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:07 am UTC

Connections and leverage are much easier to obtain with wealth than negotiating.
Summum ius, summa iniuria.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby emceng » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:01 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But that's not true in real estate. It's an extremely cutthroat business.

Trump did have an extremely effective strategy in real estate. He borrowed so much that the banks wouldn't dare call his debts, then renegotiated with those banks for debt reduction, then pocketed the money. He would negotiate great deals for contractors, only to refuse to pay because the shell company went bankrupt while, again, he walked away with the money. Eventually everyone got wise and refused to ever deal with Trump again, at which point he went into reality TV and somehow made a fortune on his "brand".


Strategy is not the same as negotiating skill. He didn't negotiate any deal at all with contractors, he just hired lawyers to help him screw people without the means to fight him. He didn't need to negotiate with banks - he borrowed like you said, then sent in lawyers or accountants that actually knew basic concepts to negotiate for him.

This is different. He's going to be sitting at the table, and this is how it will go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npr9Svl47q8
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:21 pm UTC

So what should he do instead? Send in the head of Henry Kissinger? After all, looking like that he negotiated his way into Jill Saint John's bed...

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

Why just his head? He's still alive and kicking.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:23 pm UTC

Image

cphite
Posts: 1290
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:27 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:58 pm UTC

emceng wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:But that's not true in real estate. It's an extremely cutthroat business.

Trump did have an extremely effective strategy in real estate. He borrowed so much that the banks wouldn't dare call his debts, then renegotiated with those banks for debt reduction, then pocketed the money. He would negotiate great deals for contractors, only to refuse to pay because the shell company went bankrupt while, again, he walked away with the money. Eventually everyone got wise and refused to ever deal with Trump again, at which point he went into reality TV and somehow made a fortune on his "brand".


Strategy is not the same as negotiating skill. He didn't negotiate any deal at all with contractors, he just hired lawyers to help him screw people without the means to fight him. He didn't need to negotiate with banks - he borrowed like you said, then sent in lawyers or accountants that actually knew basic concepts to negotiate for him.

This is different. He's going to be sitting at the table, and this is how it will go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Npr9Svl47q8


The thing is... this stuff happens over time. Contractors were still signing onto jobs with him even after he gained a reputation for screwing over contractors. Banks were still lending him money even after he gained a reputation for screwing over banks. That doesn't happen by magic; and it's not even something you can make happen just by throwing lawyers at it. Those things are negotiated. Trump convinced a whole lot of people over many years, that despite clear evidence to the contrary, doing business with him was a good idea.

His numerous business failings can be attributed to a lot of things - bad ideas, bad management, overreach, etc - but getting other people to give him their money, time, labor, or other resources, has rarely been his problem. And that only happens if you can negotiate.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:56 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1004765496233713664

Pres. Trump on preparation for summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: "I think I'm very well prepared, I don't think I have to prepare very much. It's about attitude, it's about willingness to get things done."


Like, why does anyone think Trump is a good negotiator? He has no fucking clue what he is doing, and this is far beyond anything he has ever had to deal with in terms of complexity. He's 100% pure bullshit and ego, and there is absolutely no evidence that he has any abilities to do anything but market himself. He's proof that capitalism itself rewads the rich while they do nothing but fuck around for status and harm the economy around then.


Image can contribute to being a good negotiator, I think. Trump definitely is into marketing his image. Now, that's certainly not the only part of negotiation. A big part of negotiation is understanding exactly what you're getting from a deal, and if it's worse than the outcome without a deal(BATNA is the usual term), you don't take the deal. As you get better, you attempt to figure out your opposition's BATNA, and in the range between yours and theirs, get as close to theirs as possible without going over.

Now, I don't really think Trump takes a formal approach to this, but I believe he does exhibit some of these qualities. If a deal does not appear to be sufficiently advantageous to him, he's willing to walk away from pretty much anything. So, he's probably a better negotiator than most, even if he isn't approaching the negotiation traditionally.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7165
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:48 pm UTC

cphite wrote:His numerous business failings can be attributed to a lot of things - bad ideas, bad management, overreach, etc - but getting other people to give him their money, time, labor, or other resources, has rarely been his problem. And that only happens if you can negotiate.
No. Trump is really only good at one thing: Failing to experience shame.

He's taken advantage of banks, contractors, and lawyers not because he's a semi-savvy negotiator, but because he's the one thing these organizations have no defense against -- a rich business-man who refuses to pay his tab.

It never fails to amaze me how much faith people put in America's economic infrastructure. You'd think after the subprime mortgage crisis we'd understand that while our financial markets have plenty of protections against 'irresponsible behavior' among the poor and middle-class, it pretty much has zero protections against abuse by the rich.

The organizations that consistently trusted Trump to pay his bills again and again did not do so because Trump convinced them to. They did so because Trump is rich, and most rich people pay their fucking bills. The fact that Trump consistently refused to do so is not indicative of cleverness on his part; he's just a rich moron who's complete lack of responsibility turned out to be an asset on account of his social and financial position. He didn't have to 'convince' contractors that he'd pay them; he just didn't pay them, then hired new ones.

He's not even a con-artist. Con-artists do this shit on purpose. Trump doesn't recognize he's exploiting a weakness of our system; he thinks his shamelessness is just his 'business acumen'.

EDIT: The messed up part? You see this same pattern throughout his career, up to the Presidency. He's spent his life occupying spaces where his shamelessness is a strength, not a weakness -- real-estate, reality TV, and now politics. His opponents were like the contractors who kept trusting him to show some modicum of responsibility, or at least trust that the system wouldn't reward this sort of behavior. Because c'mon -- no one could have gotten this far while behaving this shamelessly, right?

Wrong. If Donald Trump was a superhero, having no shame would be his fucking super-power.

User avatar
ObsessoMom
Nespresso Bomb
Posts: 749
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ObsessoMom » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:26 pm UTC

“The petty thief is imprisoned but the big thief becomes a feudal lord.”
― Zhuangzi, The Complete Works of Chuang Tzu

User avatar
ucim
Posts: 6550
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 pm UTC
Location: The One True Thread

Re: Trump presidency

Postby ucim » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:49 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:...He's spent his life occupying spaces where his shamelessness is a strength, not a weakness...
...and this is a warning to those who would entrust governance to an AI.

Jose
Order of the Sillies, Honoris Causam - bestowed by charlie_grumbles on NP 859 * OTTscar winner: Wordsmith - bestowed by yappobiscuts and the OTT on NP 1832 * Ecclesiastical Calendar of the Order of the Holy Contradiction * Please help addams if you can. She needs all of us.

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7165
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:51 pm UTC

ucim wrote:...and this is a warning to those who would entrust governance to an AI.

Jose
Donald Trump's career and resulting presidency make a lot more sense when you perceive him as an early iteration of a video-game AI that stumbled on a glitch wherein crashing the game counts as a victory.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:57 pm UTC

And then he and a myriad of others paid the developer to keep that glitch in the next version of the game and in other games as well, but only for the kids that put in a whole stack of quarters into the machine. Other kids wanted to play on other machines in the arcade, but the developer was making too much money off of these games so the working versions got scrapped, so all the other kids decided to go outside instead. When the rich kids got bored when they could only play against other rich kids using the same glitches, they stopped going to the arcade, but somehow all the other kids had their lunch money taken from them because of it.

User avatar
addams
Posts: 9996
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 am UTC
Location: Oregon Coast: 97444

Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:41 pm UTC

He was unable to get a Dime from American Banks.
That's how he became indebted to Russia.

Russia propped him up.
Russia still props him up.

He demands Loyalty and Patriotism from us.
His Loyalty is to the monied few in Russia.

I can't find the sound bite.
When asked about Russian digital interference he was Bold.
He said, 'The Russians are so Good, it will not be possible to prove.'

He was bragging about their skills.
Why do we put up with it?

The same reason other nations have allowed dictators to rise to and hold on to power?
We are, sort of, dumb. We are also very helpless. Russian Military Intelligence has won.

None of you are worried, at all, about Russian Military Intelligence having access to our power grid?
https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/ ... ower-grid/
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.

We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.

Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:29 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:He's taken advantage of banks, contractors, and lawyers not because he's a semi-savvy negotiator, but because he's the one thing these organizations have no defense against -- a rich business-man who refuses to pay his tab.


It seems a bit odd to say that someone is not good, it's merely that his opposition has all been awful.

Now, now, I don't mean to say that Trump is good in any moral sense. But he's hardly alone here. Look at the Shkreli's of the world...other rich people up to no good exist.

Trump has, however, experienced surprisingly little in the way of negative consequences, even when compared against other rich folk who are similarly lacking in ethics.

It never fails to amaze me how much faith people put in America's economic infrastructure. You'd think after the subprime mortgage crisis we'd understand that while our financial markets have plenty of protections against 'irresponsible behavior' among the poor and middle-class, it pretty much has zero protections against abuse by the rich.


Well, in the first place, we don't have a ton of protection against irresponsible behavior by the poor. Mostly it's just an accepted fact that such behavior will exist. The US doesn't bother with lots of protections against credit card fraud, for instance. Mostly it's just accepted as a cost of doing business. If the cost of protection is less than the cost of the fraud, it largely doesn't happen. Most companies don't engage in excessive amounts of security(which is why they have massive breeches).

In the second...of COURSE rich people can do more than the poor. That is what it means to be rich. However, white collar crime can be taken seriously when it involves large amounts of money. Still, I think generally it'd be easier to get a given quantity of dollars via fraud than via say shoplifting. The former will generally involve a lot less risk. It's not even just a specific level, we simply don't treat those kinds of theft in the same way.

The organizations that consistently trusted Trump to pay his bills again and again did not do so because Trump convinced them to. They did so because Trump is rich, and most rich people pay their fucking bills. The fact that Trump consistently refused to do so is not indicative of cleverness on his part; he's just a rich moron who's complete lack of responsibility turned out to be an asset on account of his social and financial position. He didn't have to 'convince' contractors that he'd pay them; he just didn't pay them, then hired new ones.


Getting paid is a really important part of going into business, and there are a LOT of companies and rich people that are shit at paying bills. Your faith in the rich is generous, but in practice, getting an invoice paid promptly is always a lot more important to a small subcontractor than to the big corp who has to pay. Many massive companies make a standard practice of forcing massive delays in payment.

I do not think that Trump has gotten where he has because he is so extraordinarily trusted. If anything, a large amount of people have long viewed him as the stereotypical slimy businessman.

The only reasonable conclusion is that he is exceptionally good at his skillset. Yes, yes, that skillset may be slimy or unethical, but it's not at all an original invention, or even rare.

User avatar
orthogon
Posts: 2987
Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 7:52 am UTC
Location: The Airy 1830 ellipsoid

Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:06 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:[... ] they have massive breeches
Spoiler:
Image

Carry on...
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:33 pm UTC

Hah, well caught.

Technically also true for Trump, I presume.

User avatar
CorruptUser
Posts: 10217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:03 pm UTC

Look, the guy figured out how to manipulate the media into giving him free publicity while saying the populist rhetoric that the people love, which got him the nomination. Then he figured that if he had absolutely no sense of shame, he could escape from any scandal at all, and it turned out he was right. So stop claiming the guy is a moron.

Reporter: "Senator, we have evidence you didn't pay your taxes"
Politician: "Uh, well, no that's not true at all, it's just a smear"
Voter: "Ugh, I'm not voting for senator"

Reporter: "Trump, we have evidence you didn't pay your taxes"
Trump: "Yeah, I did. I didn't create the system I abused, the other guys were in charge of that, I just didn't pay tax because I'm smart."
Voter: "Wow, he kind of has a point doesn't he?"

User avatar
The Great Hippo
Swans ARE SHARP
Posts: 7165
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:43 am UTC
Location: behind you

Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Look, the guy figured out how to manipulate the media into giving him free publicity while saying the populist rhetoric that the people love, which got him the nomination. Then he figured that if he had absolutely no sense of shame, he could escape from any scandal at all, and it turned out he was right. So stop claiming the guy is a moron.
He didn't figure these things out. He stumbled upon these exploits, oblivious and unaware. I sincerely doubt he has any clue that his greatest asset is his shamelessness.

This isn't manipulation, this isn't a ploy, this isn't a performance. He's not pulling the wool over everyone's eyes. God, how I wish he was; then we could have a conversation about the guy who we voted into office because he tricked us.

But nope. This is just who he is: A shameless idiot who's been coddled his entire life by people who give him the attention he wants when he screams loud enough.

That's who we elected to the highest, most powerful position in the world. That's the sort of person our system ultimately empowers. And if that doesn't scare the shit out of you, I don't know what will.

iamspen
Posts: 474
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 2:23 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby iamspen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:57 am UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:He didn't figure these things out. He stumbled upon these exploits, oblivious and unaware. I sincerely doubt he has any clue that his greatest asset is his shamelessness.


Yeah, he's just literally said whatever got him the loudest cheers and ran with it, because that both makes him feel like he's a genius and ensures that he'll continue to get the tiny little attention boners he so desperately craves. The man seeks nothing but money and power, and those are two things that have been bafflingly handed to him his entire life despite his craven behavior and record levels of stupidity, not because of them. And because of that, he thinks his jaw-clenchingly fuckheaded ways are proper and effective methods of accomplishing things, and that's really fucking up America's future, perhaps irreparably.

And the thing that makes me want to crush my own skull is this: he desires power, fame, and money. He wants more than anything else to be the ultimate authoritarian figure, but he's too fucking stupid too actually accomplish this goal. That would be relieving, except that the Republican party in Congress is so busy stroking their party's throbbing powerection that they're literally giving this clusterfuck of a human being the platform to accomplish his goals, just like every rich dimwitted moron who's ever made a business deal with him for REASONS.

Yeah, Trump is just who we are now and the way out of this hole seems to be receding more and more rapidly.

User avatar
Dauric
Posts: 3940
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:28 pm UTC

iamspen wrote:...He wants more than anything else to be the ultimate authoritarian figure, but he's too fucking stupid too actually accomplish this goal. That would be relieving, except that the Republican party in Congress is so busy stroking their party's throbbing powerection that they're literally giving this clusterfuck of a human being the platform to accomplish his goals...


Frontline: Trump's Takeover

Frontline documentary on the Faustian bargain the Republican party is making with Trump.
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:52 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:https://mobile.twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1004765496233713664

Pres. Trump on preparation for summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un: "I think I'm very well prepared, I don't think I have to prepare very much. It's about attitude, it's about willingness to get things done."


Like, why does anyone think Trump is a good negotiator? He has no fucking clue what he is doing, and this is far beyond anything he has ever had to deal with in terms of complexity. He's 100% pure bullshit and ego, and there is absolutely no evidence that he has any abilities to do anything but market himself. He's proof that capitalism itself rewads the rich while they do nothing but fuck around for status and harm the economy around then.



It's kind of funny. You guys really seem to miss the mark. Many on this forum continually note how much of a bully Trump is. Several posts in just this last page note his abuse of the banks and contractors he's used. Trump is probably not that great of a negotiator. What he is good at is being a bully. He knows how to use his leverage to get what he wants done. He also knows he can walk away and nothing will change. That's true for his real estate dealings and North Korea, and many of the other policy positions he's taken as president. You can even extend it all the way to his stupid wall position. If he gets the wall he can use that as a win on the campaign trail. If he doesn't get the wall he gets to use it on the campaign trail. Either way he wins. That's good politics.

Also, lets not forget, this "summit" is really just an optics thing. I'm guessing the leg work behind the scenes is quite extensive.

Eventually this echo chamber will have to grow up and acknowledge that, for whatever reason, North Korea is giving up their nuke's and potentially more (details are still flowing in at this point). And that is good for the US and the world. We might even see the end of the Korean war. This monumental when you consider the media coverage from 6 months ago.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)

User avatar
Liri
Healthy non-floating pooper reporting for doodie.
Posts: 1113
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:11 pm UTC
Contact:

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:04 pm UTC

At this point, precisely zero of that has happened. We're also talking about a guy that executed his own uncle. The only thing that's happened is DPRK gaining the legitimacy they've wanted since inception from meeting with a sitting US president. They still commit myriad human rights abuses on the regular. They frickin tortured and murdered a US student and Drumpf is smiling and shaking his hand.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

User avatar
plytho
¡This cheese is burning me!
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby plytho » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:07 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Also, lets not forget, this "summit" is really just an optics thing. I'm guessing the leg work behind the scenes is quite extensive.
You're filling up the blanks with competence. Whereas I think the optics thing is the only thing that's happening.
Pronouns: he him his
Avatar: The High Frontier by Angus McKie

Tyndmyr
Posts: 11443
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:38 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:18 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Eventually this echo chamber will have to grow up and acknowledge that, for whatever reason, North Korea is giving up their nuke's and potentially more (details are still flowing in at this point). And that is good for the US and the world. We might even see the end of the Korean war. This monumental when you consider the media coverage from 6 months ago.


Eh. They have signed a promise to pursue this, yes. It certainly ain't done yet. The North Korean regime has previously been unreliable, I'll hold off on the celebration until it happens.

Great if it does, mind, but it could easily fall through.

User avatar
trpmb6
Posts: 425
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:27 pm UTC

Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:36 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:Eventually this echo chamber will have to grow up and acknowledge that, for whatever reason, North Korea is giving up their nuke's and potentially more (details are still flowing in at this point). And that is good for the US and the world. We might even see the end of the Korean war. This monumental when you consider the media coverage from 6 months ago.


Eh. They have signed a promise to pursue this, yes. It certainly ain't done yet. The North Korean regime has previously been unreliable, I'll hold off on the celebration until it happens.

Great if it does, mind, but it could easily fall through.


You're right. I shouldn't put the cart before the horse. But this does go back to one of my points, that he (Trump) doesn't have much to lose right now. Worst case we return to the status quo?

Edit: ok maybe worst case is Kim still has a nuke or two laying around and he decides to fling it somewhere in retaliation for some perceived sleight. But I just don't think that is a realistic scenario.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)


Return to “News & Articles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dauric, freezeblade and 21 guests