Trump presidency

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Tyndmyr
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:41 pm UTC

I mean "no real change" has been a pretty safe bet for North Korea for some time now. Probably still the safe money. Might have interesting highlights such as how Kim tries to subvert the deal, but actually giving up all nukes strikes me as a really big sacrifice for him to make just to get rid of sanctions. He'll demand more. Maybe no nukes in South Korea/Japan. Japan would probably get twitchy about that, and the US won't like it much either.

I could easily see it developing into some situation sort of like that, and everything falls apart, and the status quo continues.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:46 pm UTC

trbmp6 wrote:It's kind of funny. You guys really seem to miss the mark. Many on this forum continually note how much of a bully Trump is. Several posts in just this last page note his abuse of the banks and contractors he's used. Trump is probably not that great of a negotiator. What he is good at is being a bully. He knows how to use his leverage to get what he wants done. He also knows he can walk away and nothing will change. That's true for his real estate dealings and North Korea, and many of the other policy positions he's taken as president. You can even extend it all the way to his stupid wall position. If he gets the wall he can use that as a win on the campaign trail. If he doesn't get the wall he gets to use it on the campaign trail. Either way he wins. That's good politics.
You and I have must have very different ideas regarding what constitutes "good politics".

But, yes -- Trump is a bully. A bully who has confused his leverage with "business acumen" and "cunning political strategies".

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:48 pm UTC

Liri wrote:At this point, precisely zero of that has happened. We're also talking about a guy that executed his own uncle. The only thing that's happened is DPRK gaining the legitimacy they've wanted since inception from meeting with a sitting US president. They still commit myriad human rights abuses on the regular. They frickin tortured and murdered a US student and Drumpf is smiling and shaking his hand.



'Drumpf' knows full well what happened to Otto. He even mentioned him by name in his remarks today.

Do you really think Kim sitting down with Trump changes anything in regards to "legitimacy" on the world stage? Absolutely not. The world has known about DPRK since it's inception, knows what it is capable of and the human rights violations they've committed. That isn't changing.

Maybe you're saying they're going to go and take the footage of the two of them together and use it in state media propaganda. Well guess what. It's a propaganda machine. They can and have fed their people garbage information before and they don't need some stupid photo op to generate support for the regime. As far as I'm concerned it can hurt them just as much as they can gain from it internally. They've been saying for half a century that USA is the evil oppressor, using their outside influence to keep them subjugated. But if that's the case then why are you meeting with their leader.. hmm..

Just admit, this can be a great moment in history we're all observing. This might even one day lead to the unification of Korea and lifting millions of people out of the hellish conditions that the DPRK keeps them subjugated to. I hope 'drumpf' is successful in this. We should all hope he is. Saying otherwise is just you being selfish because you don't want him to be able to chalk up another 'win.' This is bigger than personal politics. If Obama had accomplished this in his presidency I would have applauded him. It's crazy for me to think that the war my grandfather fought in is still technically on going. I'd love to see that ended in my lifetime. (preferably sooner rather than later...)
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:49 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:You and I have must have very different ideas regarding what constitutes "good politics".


Helped get him elected to the most powerful position in the world. I'd say that's worth something.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:51 pm UTC

Compare this to the Iran deal, then - were you applauding Obama for that?


(That spelling was unintentional, actually.)
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:55 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:I mean "no real change" has been a pretty safe bet for North Korea for some time now. Probably still the safe money. Might have interesting highlights such as how Kim tries to subvert the deal, but actually giving up all nukes strikes me as a really big sacrifice for him to make just to get rid of sanctions. He'll demand more. Maybe no nukes in South Korea/Japan. Japan would probably get twitchy about that, and the US won't like it much either.

I could easily see it developing into some situation sort of like that, and everything falls apart, and the status quo continues.

I'm mostly with tyndmyr on the likelihood of Kim following through. However, there is a difference in the China is looming in the background, so that might be worth North Korea attempting a legitimate deal. * The risks are high, but so are the rewards. I'm curious how Iran feels about all this. They must be pissed. Or think that giving up nukes was a mistake.

*Assumes that China is too strong for Kim's liking, and he wants to counterbalance with the US.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:01 pm UTC

There is a potential angle there for counterbalancing China, maybe. Particularly if a deal happens to ease his financial woes. Over and above sanctions, North Korea has a really big lack of hard currency, because nobody else wants theirs, and they have a really tough time getting any legitimately. Previous deals have loosened up first in hope of nukes being given up later, and that obviously hasn't worked, but maybe a differently structured deal might.

I think there's maybe a shot, just...bit of a long one.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:05 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Compare this to the Iran deal, then - were you applauding Obama for that?


(That spelling was unintentional, actually.)


I supported his efforts to make a deal with Iran. Not the outcome. We gave up too much and they gave up too little. Add in the limited scope of UN inspectors (ie. limited in scope of where they can go and have to provide ample advance notice of a site inspection - no surprise visits).

As an aerospace engineer I was quite interested in the potential for selling aircraft to Iran. It would have been good for me personally. (Trump has adversely impacted me in this way).

I will also hold the same views on any North Korean deal. If we give up too much in sanctions relief without specific guarantees, and we aren't given nearly unfettered access to any potential nuclear research/testing facility, I will declare it a failure.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:07 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Compare this to the Iran deal, then - were you applauding Obama for that?


(That spelling was unintentional, actually.)


Iran is the biggest reason the US was unable to "win" in both Iraq and Afghanistan, the 9/11 terrorists all passed through Iran first and they definitely knew the bastards were up to something (and may have known exactly what they were up to), have attempted to murder US ambassadors, and the Iranian deal did nothing to stop their international dealings beyond "we promise to keep our nuclear program 3 months away from a bomb at all times for the next 10-15 years when all restrictions stop and we can do whatever we want while the guy after the guy following Obama will get the blame".

North Korea is a joke that, while they have the bomb, haven't been causing anywhere near the trouble the Iranians have.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:12 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Helped get him elected to the most powerful position in the world. I'd say that's worth something.
His election has altered American politics in a way that will take years -- if not decades -- to repair. Whatever it's worth, it wasn't worth the cost. This is only "good politics" if you don't give a flying fuck about politics.

Kind of like how the whole sub-prime mortage thing was "just good business". Yeah, sure -- if you don't give a shit about business. In that case, it was pretty great.
trpmb6 wrote:Just admit, this can be a great moment in history we're all observing. This might even one day lead to the unification of Korea and lifting millions of people out of the hellish conditions that the DPRK keeps them subjugated to. I hope 'drumpf' is successful in this. We should all hope he is. Saying otherwise is just you being selfish because you don't want him to be able to chalk up another 'win.' This is bigger than personal politics. If Obama had accomplished this in his presidency I would have applauded him. It's crazy for me to think that the war my grandfather fought in is still technically on going. I'd love to see that ended in my lifetime. (preferably sooner rather than later...)
I genuinely hope he's successful. But I am also fully aware that any success he enjoys will likely be in spite of his involvement.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:17 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:Helped get him elected to the most powerful position in the world. I'd say that's worth something.
His election has altered American politics in a way that will take years -- if not decades -- to repair. Whatever it's worth, it wasn't worth the cost. This is only "good politics" if you don't give a flying fuck about politics.


I disagree. The Republican establishment still hates him, and is largely unchanged. Democratic establishment, same same. I'm not sure he's had that much lasting effect on politics at all. Sure, his election was notable, but that fades fast. Once we have a new president to disagree over, the antics of the previous one tend to fade swiftly.

trpmb6 wrote:Just admit, this can be a great moment in history we're all observing. This might even one day lead to the unification of Korea and lifting millions of people out of the hellish conditions that the DPRK keeps them subjugated to. I hope 'drumpf' is successful in this. We should all hope he is. Saying otherwise is just you being selfish because you don't want him to be able to chalk up another 'win.' This is bigger than personal politics. If Obama had accomplished this in his presidency I would have applauded him. It's crazy for me to think that the war my grandfather fought in is still technically on going. I'd love to see that ended in my lifetime. (preferably sooner rather than later...)
I genuinely hope he's successful. But I am also fully aware that any success he enjoys will likely be in spite of his involvement.


Eh. If he's actually successful, credit where credit is due. Nixon went to China, after all. It's alright to recognize that, while also accepting that Nixon was a dumpster fire of issues in other areas.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Liri » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:21 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:the Iranian deal did nothing to stop their international dealings beyond "we promise to keep our nuclear program 3 months away from a bomb at all times for the next 10-15 years when all restrictions stop and we can do whatever we want while the guy after the guy following Obama will get the blame."

That is simply untrue. The prohibition on obtaining a nuclear weapon is permanent. Several of the inspections are permanent. It was never intended to do anything beyond prevent a nuclear weapon, which it has succeeded at. You say we gave up too much, I say anything that brings Iran into the modern world and international community has a far better chance at reducing and eliminating their other bad behavior. Leaving only emboldened the hardliners who are the exact people you're worried about.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:30 pm UTC

Tyndmyr, you should probably know that I've had you foe'd for, like -- over a year now? So whatever you're saying, I'm not seeing it (and I'm not interested in seeing it). If you still want to respond to my posts, you should probably just quote me without including my name in the quote block (so I stop getting notifications that you've replied).

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby speising » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:34 pm UTC

I'm failing to see how anything about NK can be attributed to Trump. As i see it, everything runs according to Kims plans. He threatened the world with nukes which he never could have used anyway (not and surviving, that is), now he mimes the generous statesman and promises to destroy the program which was never more than an expensive money dump in exchange for lifted bans. All it cost him was a little smiling and lapping to Trump.
If anyone made an amazing turnaround as a cunning statesman, it's Kim.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:36 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Tyndmyr, you should probably know that I've had you foe'd for, like -- over a year now? So whatever you're saying, I'm not seeing it (and I'm not interested in seeing it). If you still want to respond to my posts, you should probably just quote me without including my name in the quote block (so I stop getting notifications that you've replied).


Wait, have I been foe'd too? Is there any way to tell who has foe'd you?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:38 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:Helped get him elected to the most powerful position in the world. I'd say that's worth something.
His election has altered American politics in a way that will take years -- if not decades -- to repair. Whatever it's worth, it wasn't worth the cost. This is only "good politics" if you don't give a flying fuck about politics.



You mistake my meaning of "good politics." I'm not suggesting that what he is doing policy wise is good or bad (you can decide for yourself which may be the case). What I'm saying is that he has been successful at achieving what he wants to do, using the methods he has. While I may happen to support most of what he has done, that isn't what I'm talking about in this instance. I'm saying he has been successful in beating career politicians at their own game. That isn't just something that happens all willy nilly.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:42 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Wait, have I been foe'd too? Is there any way to tell who has foe'd you?
No.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:44 pm UTC

speising wrote: in exchange for lifted bans. .


Sanctions aren't part of the deal yet. It is implied that they will be eventually. Once certain conditions are met. And those conditions aren't yet laid out either. So we really don't know yet. This is one aspect of the negotiation that I'm paying very closely to. If we lift sanctions before any sort of guarantee of strict inspections with triggers in place (that reinstate sanctions) should they find something or NK restricts access, etc.. then I will view the deal negatively. Just as I have viewed the Iran deal negatively because of the restricted access.


As a brief aside. I do find it kind of.. i don't know, bombastic of us, as a nation that we continue to tell other nations they can't have nuke's, while we have them. If you look at it from Iran and NK's perspective it's kind of not fair really.

But I guess that's the privilege we have for being the strongest country with the biggest economy in the world.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:45 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:
Wait, have I been foe'd too? Is there any way to tell who has foe'd you?


No idea. I can see who I've friended and foe'd, but see no obvious listing of who has done the same in turn. Also, a bit odd that it still gives you notifications for someone who has foe'd you.

Anyways, w/regards to Speising, sure, in the hypothetical example that they both get what they want, both deserve credit. But pretty much the entire world benefits from North Korea playing ball with the rest of us. Sure, sure, North Korea will benefit as well, but that's always been the case, and it hasn't happened until now anyways. North Korea's policy has, generally, been fairly rational if you consider it as largely being for the benefit of the folks on top, but this'd still represent a major shift. All of that's contingent on it actually happening, of course.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby emceng » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:18 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:
The Great Hippo wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:Helped get him elected to the most powerful position in the world. I'd say that's worth something.
His election has altered American politics in a way that will take years -- if not decades -- to repair. Whatever it's worth, it wasn't worth the cost. This is only "good politics" if you don't give a flying fuck about politics.


I disagree. The Republican establishment still hates him, and is largely unchanged. Democratic establishment, same same. I'm not sure he's had that much lasting effect on politics at all. Sure, his election was notable, but that fades fast. Once we have a new president to disagree over, the antics of the previous one tend to fade swiftly.



Yeah, the GOP establishment might hate him. So what? He got elected, and way too many GOP members and elected officials are taking pages from his book and lying, cheating, and demagoguing in horrible ways. He's presented a blueprint on being a shitty human being that still gets into power.

The far greater damage he is doing to the bureaucracy. He is intentionally fucking basically every cabinet department. When someone leaves the State department after 25 years because the new administration is fucking idiotic, they're going to go find a better paying job. Those people aren't going to flock back to their old positions when T is out. He's gutting personnel and programs that will take decades to recover.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:19 pm UTC

emceng wrote:The far greater damage he is doing to the bureaucracy. He is intentionally fucking basically every cabinet department. When someone leaves the State department after 25 years because the new administration is fucking idiotic, they're going to go find a better paying job. Those people aren't going to flock back to their old positions when T is out. He's gutting personnel and programs that will take decades to recover.
Citation Needed
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:29 pm UTC

Dug around casually, didn't find a nice source outlining government employment over time, which is what I was hoping for. It's probably in BLS numbers if you really want to dig for them, but eh.

Does appear as if government turnover is generally far lower than private industry, though. Not a Trump thing, just an in general thing.

Image

So, given that private industry manages to keep ticking, I don't think the government is too hard up in general.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:33 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:
emceng wrote:The far greater damage he is doing to the bureaucracy. He is intentionally fucking basically every cabinet department. When someone leaves the State department after 25 years because the new administration is fucking idiotic, they're going to go find a better paying job. Those people aren't going to flock back to their old positions when T is out. He's gutting personnel and programs that will take decades to recover.
Citation Needed

https://www.npr.org/2018/05/17/61192287 ... government
New Yorker staff writer Evan Osnos says that hundreds of non-partisan civil servants, considered not loyal enough to the administration, have been marginalized or pushed out of government entirely.

It's pretty bad, unless you're a mega Corp looking to freely pollute and exploit the country.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:35 pm UTC

Turnover is a good thing at healthy levels. I suspect turnover at the government level is low for a myraid of reasons. Primarily due to the benefit packages.

Any federal employees leaving their positions right now will be just fine anyways. The economy is humming right?!? :lol:
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:40 pm UTC

Good turnover vs bad turnover is a fair point. Ideological reasons may not be the same as practical reasons.

That said, "pushed to marginal jobs" isn't turnover. It's something that matters for this administration, certainly, but it's easily undone by the next. Someone in a position they are unsatisfied with can be rapidly fixed by an administration that wishes to promote them, but someone who has left entirely is likely hard to coax back. And the source doesn't seem to indicate that turnover has vastly increased. I buy that the Trump administration likes yes-men, but it isn't persuasive that we're going to have a crippled government for decades.

As for if the workers themselves will be fine, quite possibly, but I think that's beside the point emceng is trying to make. It's concern over the functionality of government, not over the individual worker themselves.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:42 pm UTC

Oil and chemical companies aren't even in the top 5 most evil industries in spite of the high pollution. I'd have mentioned the Telecoms, considering, you know, net neutrality and all.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:44 pm UTC

https://federalnewsradio.com/workforce/ ... irst-year/

About 468,000 federal employees were separated from their jobs in 2017, approximately 10,000 more than the previous year. However, that increase doesn’t come close to the “retirement tsunami” that federal employment experts have predicted for years.


So 10,000 more people left their job in 2017 than 2016. (as a point of reference 2016 saw 4,000 more than the year before it per the chart linked, 2014 saw a very low number compared to 2013 and 2015 - see linked chart)

They also note, a couple paragraphs later, that only 30,000 people were separated from their jobs in January 2018, which was down 10,000 from Jan 2017. So that kind of suggests that maybe 2018 will be flat?

A change of 10,000 when you're talking about half a million people is not that significant imo.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:26 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Turnover is a good thing at healthy levels. I suspect turnover at the government level is low for a myraid of reasons. Primarily due to the benefit packages.

Any federal employees leaving their positions right now will be just fine anyways. The economy is humming right?!? :lol:
Nearly the entire Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP) quit out of frustration. The new 'head' of the OSTP has a degree in -- I believe it's 'Political Science'? Yeah.

The only way you think this is a good thing is if you're an idiot. Either that, or you think 'science' is part of the Democratic Party's liberal agenda, and --

-- oh wait; nevermind. My bad. That would still just make you an idiot.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:35 pm UTC

That's a small white house advisory office. I'm not surprised that Trump has been unkind to it, but in comparison, Nixon just outright killed the Science Committee. This particular committee doesn't seem to actually do all that much, so...no great loss if it's smaller?

Overall, I'm still not seeing anything that's persuasively on the level of decades of government not working. Or at least, things that are currently working not working.

Ah, now I remember why Hippo foe'd me. I believe I pointed out his tendency for personal insults instead of reasoned argument. No great loss, I suppose.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby froghero » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:39 pm UTC

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/27/us/p ... erson.html
Government positions aren't interchangeable. Which positions are unfilled matters, especially high level diplomatic and bureaucratic positions that require job experience in order to keep even little things like international relations running smoothly. President Trump has shown reluctance to even just nominate someone to fill vacancies in his own cabinet.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:42 pm UTC

That matters for his administration, definitely.

But the posited scenario is that it would take years or decades to repair the damage done to government. This seems an unlikely result for unfilled administration seats. The next president can simply fill those positions, and very likely would not want to keep Trump appointees even if they were there. Yes, perhaps Trump's administration is less effective, but the results ought not linger after his term.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:42 pm UTC

Office of Science and Technology Policy

Look at that last word very carefully. It's a policy office. They get staffed based on what the current person in the white house believe science wise.

Honestly we're talking about something that isn't surprising at all. Don't feign surprise when one of the central theme's of Trump (and many Republican's) campaign was to breakdown the deep state.

It'd be like being surprised that Obama went after coal and being outraged that those employed in the coal industry dropped 40,000 in one year[Citation Needed].

I'm all for having a good discussion about these things. But don't attack me. It's petty and why I often disappear from these boards for periods of time. But I'm not surprised considering you'll foe someone just because you disagree with their politics. <expecting to be foe'd after this>
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:46 pm UTC

froghero wrote:President Trump has shown reluctance to even just nominate someone to fill vacancies in his own cabinet.


And yet the government continues to function... it's almost like.. maybe we don't need all these different bureaucratic positions and offices....

(I'm slightly jesting of course... but only slightly.)

If we want to go back to the topic of unfilled positions, keep in mind he has a backlog that the senate isn't working very expeditiously on. Why nominate someone when they're just going to sit in the waiting line for 6 months? Some of the nominations can't really even happen until the higher level vacancies are filled. Things like under secretaries can't be filled (I suppose you *could* nominate them, but wouldn't you like to know that your first choice for the higher up position is filled before you start trying to figure out the lower level stuff?) if you haven't even gotten the guy above him through the process yet.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:47 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:Honestly we're talking about something that isn't surprising at all. Don't feign surprise when one of the central theme's of Trump (and many Republican's) campaign was to breakdown the deep state.
Please don't tell me you believe in the 'deep state'.
trpbmp6 wrote:I'm all for having a good discussion about these things. But don't attack me. It's petty and why I often disappear from these boards for periods of time.
That 'idiot' thing wasn't directed at you, it was meant generically; I genuinely presumed you didn't fall under the category I was discussing. I'd apologize for that presumption, but I'm actually not sure whether or not that would come off as even more insulting ("Sorry that I presumed you don't think science is a liberal agenda?").
trpbmp6 wrote: But I'm not surprised considering you'll foe someone just because you disagree with their politics. <expecting to be foe'd after this>
Are we seriously going there?

Tyndmyr
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:55 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:
froghero wrote:President Trump has shown reluctance to even just nominate someone to fill vacancies in his own cabinet.


And yet the government continues to function... it's almost like.. maybe we don't need all these different bureaucratic positions and offices....

(I'm slightly jesting of course... but only slightly.)


There is a balance, but for some things it doesn't much matter. The office could produce a very nice report that encouraged Trump to reconsider the Paris agreement, I'm sure. But would Trump read it, or act accordingly? Probably not. It's pretty straightforward to predict the level of environmental concern of a candidate while they are running, and it isn't a result of this office's actions.

So, you could have it fully staffed, and nothing much would change. Next Democrat in charge will probably staff it fully....but would be more likely to prioritize environmental action even if the office didn't exist at all. Ultimately, it's an issue that is determined by which party is in power, not by what the advisory committee wants.

Non-advisory roles are somewhat different. Forest Service has trees to plant and stuff, if nobody worked there, you might see variations in forest management, which might be undesirable. Probably some level of employment you don't want to drop beneath. However, there are far more of the latter positions than the former. At it's height, the former office was only about 150 people. I'm all for optimizing the government, but there are comparatively few of the easy targets like advisory positions.

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trpmb6
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:56 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:Are we seriously going there?


You can't see Tyndmyr's posts.. which would provide more context.

Probably a good reason why I don't Foe anyone.

But you're right, that was a cheap shot. Especially after I hopped on my high horse and asked you not to attack me.

My apologies.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)

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The Great Hippo
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:05 pm UTC

EDIT: Disregard. I'll be staying out of this thread, though.
Last edited by The Great Hippo on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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trpmb6
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby trpmb6 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:17 pm UTC

I don't understand why you're saying "For fuck's sake. Really?" and not accepting my apology. That was a sincere apology. I was definitely an ass for flipping the table around, right after trying to take the high ground. I don't really know what else can be done. I just want to have civilized discussions here. I live in an echo chamber of conservative opinions and genuinely like to immerse myself in an echo chamber of liberal opinions to gain perspective. You guys may not like my opinions on matters, and you can guarantee that I don't agree with everything you all post, but one thing I will always attempt to do (I may fail at times) is to remain civil.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)

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orthogon
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm UTC

The Great Hippo wrote:The new 'head' of the OSTP has a degree in -- I believe it's 'Political Science'? Yeah.

Not "Political Science" as in the eponymous Randy Newman song, I hope...

ETA: just going over the lyrics of that song in my head, I realise to my horror that every single line could be a Trump tweet or unscripted press-conference outburst.
xtifr wrote:... and orthogon merely sounds undecided.

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SDK
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:14 pm UTC

trpmb6 wrote:If Obama had accomplished this in his presidency I would have applauded him.

Could be true, but Fox News disagrees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf8Uu53x0d8

Not that Republicans are the only ones capable of this sort of thing. There's some in this thread right now! Partisanship is a hell of a drug.
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