Trump presidency
Moderators: Zamfir, Hawknc, Moderators General, Prelates
- Sableagle
- Ormurinn's Alt
- Posts: 1982
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
- Location: The wrong side of the mirror
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
I was referring to the army as another country.
Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.
Re: Trump presidency
Soupspoon wrote:"As a Conservative…"
Yeah. I really shouldn't refer to myself as a conservative for most things. As I said earlier in the thread. I'm a very weird conservative. And I happen to believe that most "conservatives" are wrong in their thinking. Maybe I should label myself as a conservative libertarian, but disagrees with a lot of things libertarians support too. This is where the two party system fails because there are a lot of things on the democrat side I support. But when it comes to voting I generally follow a fiscal conservative route. Social issues seem to be able to make progress outside of washington. Progress on a great number of social issues has been made in spite of washington.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)
Re: Trump presidency
Socially liberal/fiscally conservative generally ends up in roughly in libertarian territory. 'sok to not agree with other libertarians. None of them agree with each other either. *stares at /r/Libertarian, eyes unfocused*
- gmalivuk
- GNU Terry Pratchett
- Posts: 26577
- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
- Location: Here and There
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:Socially liberal/fiscally conservative
"I don't think LGBT kids kicked out of the house should die because they're queer, I think they should die because they're homeless."
Re: Trump presidency
gmalivuk wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:Socially liberal/fiscally conservative
"I don't think LGBT kids kicked out of the house should die because they're queer, I think they should die because they're homeless."
Now, now, traditionally we advocate for ALL poor to die equally in the gutter, yes?
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:
Now, now, traditionally we advocate for ALL poor to die equally in the gutter, yes?
Isn't there a heart strings/friends clause where the government wouldn't help poor people, but individual people are free to donate? Then you get to feel better about the local situation, and can ignore the wider problem.
Re: Trump presidency
sardia wrote:Isn't there a heart strings/friends clause where the government wouldn't help poor people, but individual people are free to donate? Then you get to feel better about the local situation, and can ignore the wider problem.
Well, of course anyone is free to donate if they choose. Gofundme can be the new national health care system.
Re: Trump presidency
I donate thousands and volunteer all the time... as do many of my evil right wing tea bagger friends.
I found this article interesting. I don't think she has much of a claim to political asylum based on the statements her husband made.
I found this article interesting. I don't think she has much of a claim to political asylum based on the statements her husband made.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)
- CorruptUser
- Posts: 10370
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC
Re: Trump presidency
sardia wrote:Isn't there a heart strings/friends clause where the government wouldn't help poor people, but individual people are free to donate? Then you get to feel better about the local situation, and can ignore the wider problem.
By "individual people", you mean "churches". By having religious groups function as a bare bones welfare system, you ensure that the poor remain religious, you ensure that 'pesky' social movements are kept under wraps by not supporting 'deviant lifestyles', and more importantly, you ensure that the church is still relevant. After all, the church used to be your social club, psychiatric services, hospital, school system, welfare, event planner, etc, all in one package. But as we have more and more opportunities outside of the church itself, the church becomes increasingly irrelevant to modern life; religious groups don't oppose publicly funded welfare, education and healthcare because it's somehow "unchristian" but because those things are a religious group's death sentence.
Re: Trump presidency
I don't think it invalidates her asylum request(unless of course, she lied on the paperwork or something), but it does call into question the credibility of those journalists. Will Time Magazine publish a correction? If they do, will it be anywhere near as prominent as the front page cover?
Gonna guess probably not.
Alright, the "dying in the gutter" bit was intended as dark comedy, but we can chat about this. There's a big religion/Republican overlap, but Libertarians are actually a lot less religious than the average*. 83% of the US at large identifies as some flavor of christian, but only 63% of Libertarians do. The idea that they're the biggest backers of the church is a bit odd. If anything, it's "well, at least the churches can be useful for that".
Also, plenty of religious folks are pro-education. Shit, the religious wing of the Republican party is probably the most big-government of the lot.
Religion's in politics, sure, but it's not quite as you suggest. Both primary parties will run a candidate that's at least nominally religious in all cases. Trump is probably one of the least Christian candidates to come out of the main parties in ages, so the Trump v Clinton election didn't really center on any sort of religion vs non religion thing. That's faded into the background a fair bit.
*https://www.prri.org/research/2013-american-values-survey/
Gonna guess probably not.
CorruptUser wrote:By "individual people", you mean "churches". By having religious groups function as a bare bones welfare system, you ensure that the poor remain religious, you ensure that 'pesky' social movements are kept under wraps by not supporting 'deviant lifestyles', and more importantly, you ensure that the church is still relevant. After all, the church used to be your social club, psychiatric services, hospital, school system, welfare, event planner, etc, all in one package. But as we have more and more opportunities outside of the church itself, the church becomes increasingly irrelevant to modern life; religious groups don't oppose publicly funded welfare, education and healthcare because it's somehow "unchristian" but because those things are a religious group's death sentence.
Alright, the "dying in the gutter" bit was intended as dark comedy, but we can chat about this. There's a big religion/Republican overlap, but Libertarians are actually a lot less religious than the average*. 83% of the US at large identifies as some flavor of christian, but only 63% of Libertarians do. The idea that they're the biggest backers of the church is a bit odd. If anything, it's "well, at least the churches can be useful for that".
Also, plenty of religious folks are pro-education. Shit, the religious wing of the Republican party is probably the most big-government of the lot.
Religion's in politics, sure, but it's not quite as you suggest. Both primary parties will run a candidate that's at least nominally religious in all cases. Trump is probably one of the least Christian candidates to come out of the main parties in ages, so the Trump v Clinton election didn't really center on any sort of religion vs non religion thing. That's faded into the background a fair bit.
*https://www.prri.org/research/2013-american-values-survey/
Last edited by Tyndmyr on Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
- ObsessoMom
- Nespresso Bomb
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC
Re: Trump presidency
Ninja'd--I'll post this instead:


- doogly
- Dr. The Juggernaut of Touching Himself
- Posts: 5493
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:31 am UTC
- Location: Lexington, MA
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
gmalivuk wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:Socially liberal/fiscally conservative
"I don't think LGBT kids kicked out of the house should die because they're queer, I think they should die because they're homeless."
That's excellent.
LE4dGOLEM: What's a Doug?
Noc: A larval Doogly. They grow the tail and stinger upon reaching adulthood.
Keep waggling your butt brows Brothers.
Or; Is that your eye butthairs?
Noc: A larval Doogly. They grow the tail and stinger upon reaching adulthood.
Keep waggling your butt brows Brothers.
Or; Is that your eye butthairs?
- SecondTalon
- SexyTalon
- Posts: 26367
- Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 2:10 pm UTC
- Location: Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Mars. HA!
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:I don't think it invalidates her asylum request(unless of course, she lied on the paperwork or something), but it does call into question the credibility of those journalists. Will Time Magazine publish a correction? If they do, will it be anywhere near as prominent as the front page cover
Kushner has admittted to lying in multiple places on his various forms to get his position, each one a felony and since I don’t hear you baying for his blood, I can safely disregard every single statement you make about politics, ever.
I’m debating!
heuristically_alone wrote:I want to write a DnD campaign and play it by myself and DM it myself.
heuristically_alone wrote:I have been informed that this is called writing a book.
- CorruptUser
- Posts: 10370
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC
Re: Trump presidency
A bit off topic, but what the hell is with the trope of "ransom note made from cut and paste magazines"? There's going to be more of your DNA on that note if that's what you are worried about, your home now has a bunch of magazines missing those letters and thus is evidence if you don't recycle, and if you are so concerned about handwriting analysis then you can just, IDK, don't use your normal handwriting?
Re: Trump presidency
SecondTalon wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:I don't think it invalidates her asylum request(unless of course, she lied on the paperwork or something), but it does call into question the credibility of those journalists. Will Time Magazine publish a correction? If they do, will it be anywhere near as prominent as the front page cover
Kushner has admittted to lying in multiple places on his various forms to get his position, each one a felony and since I don’t hear you baying for his blood, I can safely disregard every single statement you make about politics, ever.
I’m debating!
You might be misunderstanding what I'm advocating.
I'm less interested in pursuing potential form errors on behalf of one immigrant than I am in looking at the fake news out there. Ultimately, the responsibility with this is primarily with the news agency, I think.
CorruptUser wrote:A bit off topic, but what the hell is with the trope of "ransom note made from cut and paste magazines"? There's going to be more of your DNA on that note if that's what you are worried about, your home now has a bunch of magazines missing those letters and thus is evidence if you don't recycle, and if you are so concerned about handwriting analysis then you can just, IDK, don't use your normal handwriting?
Mostly it's a movie thing, I think. An old movie thing, now that I think about it. Nowadays, one would just type out their ransom notes on a computer like a normal person. Handwriting is for old people.
- ObsessoMom
- Nespresso Bomb
- Posts: 814
- Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 5:28 pm UTC
Re: Trump presidency
Ninjaed, but:
This is the way ransom notes were made when I was a kid, to avoid handwriting and ink identification, or identification of the typewriter. Back in the days of typewriters and no DNA testing. Thus immortalized in many TV and film portrayals of crime in those days of yore.
Obviously this is a font, because the doubled letters are identical.
This is the way ransom notes were made when I was a kid, to avoid handwriting and ink identification, or identification of the typewriter. Back in the days of typewriters and no DNA testing. Thus immortalized in many TV and film portrayals of crime in those days of yore.
Obviously this is a font, because the doubled letters are identical.
Re: Trump presidency
CorruptUser wrote:A bit off topic, but what the hell is with the trope of "ransom note made from cut and paste magazines"? There's going to be more of your DNA on that note if that's what you are worried about, your home now has a bunch of magazines missing those letters and thus is evidence if you don't recycle, and if you are so concerned about handwriting analysis then you can just, IDK, don't use your normal handwriting?
Well, the trope originated when handwriting analysis (or type-font analysis) was more relevant than DNA evidence... and nowadays, as long as your hypothetical villain was careful, he could minimize the amount of DNA evidence left on the note. Magazines can be burned or shredded.
Mainly it's just a really obvious and recognizable way of conveying a "ransom" style letter on the screen. Simply showing a note written in the crooks non-typical handwriting wouldn't provide the same visual - the audience has no way of recognizing that.
- Dauric
- Posts: 3967
- Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm UTC
- Location: In midair, traversing laterally over a container of sharks. No water, just sharks, with lasers.
Re: Trump presidency
Spoiler:
We're in the traffic-chopper over the XKCD boards where there's been a thread-derailment. A Liquified Godwin spill has evacuated threads in a fourty-post radius of the accident, Lolcats and TVTropes have broken free of their containers. It is believed that the Point has perished.
Re: Trump presidency
SecondTalon wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:I don't think it invalidates her asylum request(unless of course, she lied on the paperwork or something), but it does call into question the credibility of those journalists. Will Time Magazine publish a correction? If they do, will it be anywhere near as prominent as the front page cover
Kushner has admittted to lying in multiple places on his various forms to get his position, each one a felony and since I don’t hear you baying for his blood, I can safely disregard every single statement you make about politics, ever.
I’m debating!
spoilered for off topic:
Spoiler:
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)
- freezeblade
- Posts: 1342
- Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:11 pm UTC
- Location: Oakland
Re: Trump presidency
spoilered for off topic on "ransom note" meme
Spoiler:
Belial wrote:I am not even in the same country code as "the mood for this shit."
- Sableagle
- Ormurinn's Alt
- Posts: 1982
- Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm UTC
- Location: The wrong side of the mirror
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
It dates back to when we used to do this:


Oh, Willie McBride, it was all done in vain.
- CorruptUser
- Posts: 10370
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:12 pm UTC
- Soupspoon
- You have done something you shouldn't. Or are about to.
- Posts: 3877
- Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 7:00 pm UTC
- Location: 53-1
Re: Trump presidency
trpmb6 wrote:I donate thousands and volunteer all the time... as do many of my evil right wing tea bagger friends.
I found this article interesting. I don't think she has much of a claim to political asylum based on the statements her husband made.
I find it interesting that her she went without her husband. Maybe the better life for her and her child included being beyond his reach. Or maybe not, but knowing the Mail I'm reserving judgement on what might be paid-for crocodile tears.
- gmalivuk
- GNU Terry Pratchett
- Posts: 26577
- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
- Location: Here and There
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:Now, now, traditionally we advocate for ALL poor to die equally in the gutter, yes?gmalivuk wrote:Tyndmyr wrote:Socially liberal/fiscally conservative
"I don't think LGBT kids kicked out of the house should die because they're queer, I think they should die because they're homeless."
The point is that most fiscal conservatism fucks over the same marginalized populations social conservatives hate.
Policies that hurt the poor and homeless are effectively racist, homophobic, transphobic, and so on, because those groups are disproportionately likely to be poor.
Your "social liberalism" means precisely fuck all if you refuse to acknowledge how social and financial issues overlap.
Re: Trump presidency
gmalivuk wrote:The point is that most fiscal conservatism fucks over the same marginalized populations social conservatives hate.
Democrats hated them too until fairly recently. Both mainstream parties took a good long while to get around to respecting LGBT rights much at all, the sudden sense of superiority the Democrats display over it is ridiculous.
Yes, of course we ought to remove unequal legislation and the like, but mainstream leftist idealism has pretty dirty hands here as well.
Policies that hurt the poor and homeless are effectively racist, homophobic, transphobic, and so on, because those groups are disproportionately likely to be poor.
Ah, yes, disproportionate impact. Are they also anti-veteran, because veterans are more likely to be homeless? No, I don't think so. Someone can, and often will, support the military, yet not support more funding for the poor. In any case, the goal of fiscal conservatism is not actually to hurt the poor, but to improve the economy overall. While this might not be good for the poor in the short term, in the long term, having a health job market and booming GDP growth is of help for the poor as well as for everyone else.
Soupspoon wrote:I find it interesting that her she went without her husband. Maybe the better life for her and her child included being beyond his reach. Or maybe not, but knowing the Mail I'm reserving judgement on what might be paid-for crocodile tears.
In any case, she didn't seem to mind leaving the rest of the children with him.
Re: Trump presidency
The thing about their story that struck me as odd was he viewed it as more dangerous than where they currently are. That he hopes she comes back.
She clearly wasn't fleeing the husband - or she would have taken the other three children as well. (if you fear someone will harm one child you fear they'll retaliate on the others)
It's fair to note that the 6,000 dollar coyote fee was hearsay - he heard it from someone who said they talked to her about it. So I don't know we can really consider that aspect.
It is interesting that the little girl who was used on the Time's cover wasn't separated from her mother at the border - as was claimed - but WAS separated from her father by her mother.
She clearly wasn't fleeing the husband - or she would have taken the other three children as well. (if you fear someone will harm one child you fear they'll retaliate on the others)
It's fair to note that the 6,000 dollar coyote fee was hearsay - he heard it from someone who said they talked to her about it. So I don't know we can really consider that aspect.
It is interesting that the little girl who was used on the Time's cover wasn't separated from her mother at the border - as was claimed - but WAS separated from her father by her mother.
(terran/protoss/zerg/fascist fuck)
- gmalivuk
- GNU Terry Pratchett
- Posts: 26577
- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
- Location: Here and There
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Yes, they are also anti-veteran, thanks for asking.
Being pro-war and anti-veteran is consistent with a worldview of not giving a shit about the people your policies trample underfoot.
Being pro-war and anti-veteran is consistent with a worldview of not giving a shit about the people your policies trample underfoot.
Re: Trump presidency
gmalivuk wrote:Yes, they are also anti-veteran, thanks for asking.
Being pro-war and anti-veteran is consistent with a worldview of not giving a shit about the people your policies trample underfoot.
You could, right now, donate every dollar you have to the poor. Doing so would help those same groups who trend towards poverty.
Are you racist for not doing so?
Re: Trump presidency
This kerfuffle, like most of Orange's actions, is costing a Fortune!
Bad Orange Man! Bad!
Bad Orange Man! Bad!
Life is, just, an exchange of electrons; It is up to us to give it meaning.
We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.
Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.
We are all in The Gutter.
Some of us see The Gutter.
Some of us see The Stars.
by mr. Oscar Wilde.
Those that want to Know; Know.
Those that do not Know; Don't tell them.
They do terrible things to people that Tell Them.
- gmalivuk
- GNU Terry Pratchett
- Posts: 26577
- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
- Location: Here and There
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:gmalivuk wrote:Yes, they are also anti-veteran, thanks for asking.
Being pro-war and anti-veteran is consistent with a worldview of not giving a shit about the people your policies trample underfoot.
You could, right now, donate every dollar you have to the poor. Doing so would help those same groups who trend towards poverty.
Are you racist for not doing so?
Are you planning to edit this post so it makes sense or is relevant to anything or nah?
Re: Trump presidency
Look, you said that opposing a policy that would help poor folks is racist, sexist, and so on.
If you adopted a personal policy right now of donating more money to help them, why, they'd be helped, right?
Why is it only racist to oppose government policies, but not to oppose doing anything yourself?
If you adopted a personal policy right now of donating more money to help them, why, they'd be helped, right?
Why is it only racist to oppose government policies, but not to oppose doing anything yourself?
- gmalivuk
- GNU Terry Pratchett
- Posts: 26577
- Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:02 pm UTC
- Location: Here and There
- Contact:
Re: Trump presidency
Not giving all my money away isn't opposition to any personal action.
But in any case, policies could actually eliminate or significantly reduce poverty, personal charity from any individual non-billionaire couldn't. That's the difference.
But in any case, policies could actually eliminate or significantly reduce poverty, personal charity from any individual non-billionaire couldn't. That's the difference.
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:gmalivuk wrote:Yes, they are also anti-veteran, thanks for asking.
Being pro-war and anti-veteran is consistent with a worldview of not giving a shit about the people your policies trample underfoot.
You could, right now, donate every dollar you have to the poor. Doing so would help those same groups who trend towards poverty.
Are you racist for not doing so?
Counterpoint, a politician donates his salary to a department, but also cuts the department's budget. He may or may not claim accolades for his charity. Did he harm the department or hurt?
By nature of collective action>single action, the budget cuts dwarf the monetary donation. That's why political budgeting is more important than charitable donations.
Re: Trump presidency
trpmb6 wrote:But when it comes to voting I generally follow a fiscal conservative route. Social issues seem to be able to make progress outside of washington. Progress on a great number of social issues has been made in spite of washington.
What does "fiscal conservatism" even mean? As far as I can tell, based on the actions of fiscal conservatives, it means getting yourself into debt by cutting income faster than you cut spending, it means favouring short term results for already successful individuals over considerable long term gains for the country as a whole, socializing losses while privatizing gains, greatly increasing the amount of money spent on the military-industrial complex, and a lot of other things that basically amount to "being bad with money".
What is the actual appeal of fiscal conservatism, as implemented by those who actually practice fiscal conservatism?
Re: Trump presidency
Of course an action may be bigger or smaller. I don't dispute that. But does that change the morality of it?
It is, after all, still racist if you harm only one individual instead of the entire lot, yes?
It is, after all, still racist if you harm only one individual instead of the entire lot, yes?
Re: Trump presidency
Tobias wrote:trpmb6 wrote:But when it comes to voting I generally follow a fiscal conservative route. Social issues seem to be able to make progress outside of washington. Progress on a great number of social issues has been made in spite of washington.
What does "fiscal conservatism" even mean? As far as I can tell, based on the actions of fiscal conservatives, it means getting yourself into debt by cutting income faster than you cut spending, it means favouring short term results for already successful individuals over considerable long term gains for the country as a whole, socializing losses while privatizing gains, greatly increasing the amount of money spent on the military-industrial complex, and a lot of other things that basically amount to "being bad with money".
What is the actual appeal of fiscal conservatism, as implemented by those who actually practice fiscal conservatism?
Fund defense and tax cuts by cutting social security, healthcare (Medicare Medicaid), and the domestic budget. Budgets are out of whack because Democrats haven't rolled over on domestic spending. None of it is the GOP fault.... Somewhere in there the sarcasm starts and the observations end.
Re: Trump presidency
sardia wrote:Fund defense and tax cuts by cutting social security, healthcare (Medicare Medicaid), and the domestic budget. Budgets are out of whack because Democrats haven't rolled over on domestic spending. None of it is the GOP fault.... Somewhere in there the sarcasm starts and the observations end.
I'm... actually, genuinely, not sure if you're arguing against or in favour of my description of fiscal conservatism here. In favour, I guess?
Re: Trump presidency
Tyndmyr wrote:It is, after all, still racist if you harm only one individual instead of the entire lot, yes?
People tend to conflate multiple types of racism - the biggest ones being systemic racism (which afflicts populations, but from which many individuals in that population may escape in part or in whole) and personal racism (which may have minimal impact on the population as a whole but can have serious impact on individuals within it).
Redlining and breaking up of communities is an example of systemic racism, and was historically a powerful tool not for hurting individual black and poor people, but for harming them as a class. Individuals can escape the effects of redlining, but the results for the entire demographic are massive.
Isolated white supremacists shooting up black churches is personal racism - it has an outsized impact on particular black people, but does not do do much to disadvantage black people as a class. These sorts of actions can become systemic racism if they start to become a norm of interaction, but they need to happen a good deal for that to be true. Of course, many types of historical systemic racism are in fact personal racism that had sufficient widespread adoption (like white folk not wanting their daughters to get involved with or married to black men, and being willing to do violence in pursuit of that goal) to impact the class as a whole, even if its not intended to impact the class as a whole like redlining was.
Similarly some examples of systemic racism can have outsized impacts on individuals as well. For example, the many ethnic cleansing programs launched in the US against black people in the 20s and 30s both targeted the individual black people in the areas targeted, but also destroyed many of the institutions that were helping to pull black people as a class out of poverty and into a position more on par with their white compatriots. The effects were both profound to the individuals involved, and did long-lasting damage to the class as a whole.
Generally, it is systemic racism, not personal, that people attempt to tackle nowadays, because the effects can propagate for decades if not centuries.
Re: Trump presidency
Look, a donation to the appropriate cause helps the protected class, yes? Sure, a larger donation helps more, but everything helps.
I mean, if it's only moral if it's a sufficiently large amount, then I guess only the rich can be moral.
I mean, if it's only moral if it's a sufficiently large amount, then I guess only the rich can be moral.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 31 guests