Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SecondTalon » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:31 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Its not the right word unless theres “intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”. Its absolutely not the same as the taking of native american children and putting them into residential schools in an attempt to get rid of their culture.
The UN disagrees
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:01 am UTC

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


While forcibly transferring children can be genocide, the intent is required for it to be considered as such. Now, it's pretty clear that white nationalism is the primary driving factor behind these policies, so I'm not comfortable labeling it as not genocide without some evidence.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:42 am UTC

Thesh wrote:
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.


While forcibly transferring children can be genocide, the intent is required for it to be considered as such. Now, it's pretty clear that white nationalism is the primary driving factor behind these policies, so I'm not comfortable labeling it as not genocide without some evidence.
oh, Dear God....
It is Genocide.

Agents of my Nation destabilized the area.
Those that were able to escape had their children taken.

The normal, gentle people of Guatemala are at very high risk of disappearing.
They are American Indian...American Native...
They came walking in, thousands of years ago.

****Different subject, yet On Topic.
Sen Ron Wyden speaks for seven minutes.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:50 am UTC

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-had-very-nasty-204952214.html

Trump has said that he had a business relationship with Mueller. Does anyone know of any proof for this?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:20 am UTC

gd1 wrote:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-had-very-nasty-204952214.html

Trump has said that he had a business relationship with Mueller. Does anyone know of any proof for this?
Yes.
Mr. Mueller had a Club Membership at one of Trump's Clubs.
Mr. Muller Quit the Club. Trump hates anyone that Quits him,

That is the only place the lives of these two men touched.
Trump is grasping at straws. He always does, That we know.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:58 am UTC

addams wrote:
gd1 wrote:https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-had-very-nasty-204952214.html

Trump has said that he had a business relationship with Mueller. Does anyone know of any proof for this?
Yes.
Mr. Mueller had a Club Membership at one of Trump's Clubs.
Mr. Muller Quit the Club. Trump hates anyone that Quits him,

That is the only place the lives of these two men touched.
Trump is grasping at straws. He always does, That we know.


Can you put a link to a good source? I'll Google for myself, but just cause I guess.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:00 pm UTC

Does the Torygraph count as a good source?

Did a dispute over golf fees push Donald Trump to try and fire Robert Mueller?

It was a standard inquiry about the refund of yearly golf dues. But Robert Mueller's 2011 request was never answered. The then-director of the FBI resigned from the Trump golf course in Sterling, Virginia, and gave it little more thought.

In June 2017, however, that resignation became a source of fury for Donald Trump, helping make his mind up on a decision to fire the special investigator, according to the New York times.

The paper claimed that, in June, Mr Trump came up with three reasons as to why Mr Mueller should be fired from his role as special counsel investigating Russian meddling in the US election.

Mr Trump told associates that Mr Mueller could not be impartial because he had previously worked for a law firm that represented Jared Kushner, his son-in-law.

A second cause for concern, the president said, was that Mr Mueller had been interviewed to return as the FBI director the day before he was appointed special counsel in May.

And finally, he claimed that a dispute years ago over fees at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Virginia, had prompted Mr Mueller, the FBI director at the time, to resign his membership.

The president was only convinced not to go ahead with his plan when Donald McGahn, the White House counsel, threatened to resign if he did.

Mr Trump on Friday called the New York Times report "fake news", but his lawyer, Ty Cobb, did not deny it had happened - only issuing a statement saying they would not comment.


All these pop-ups on all these sources are making bothering to read the news less and less attractive.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:17 pm UTC

I'm still uncomfortable referring to it as 'genocide', because the people aren't local. This isn't a similar situation as when the US (and Canada and Australia) rounded up native children in order to eliminate their culture and nationality entirely. The US isn't invading Guatemala and rounding up the people there to be "re-educated", though the US does bear a huge responsiblity for the genocide of the Mayans during the second half of the 20th century due to the civil war it caused on behalf of the fucking Chiquita company.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:56 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm still uncomfortable referring to it as 'genocide', because the people aren't local. This isn't a similar situation as when the US (and Canada and Australia) rounded up native children in order to eliminate their culture and nationality entirely. The US isn't invading Guatemala and rounding up the people there to be "re-educated", though the US does bear a huge responsiblity for the genocide of the Mayans during the second half of the 20th century due to the civil war it caused on behalf of the fucking Chiquita company.
I'm not going to argue with you.
Yet; The U.S. was very active in Central America during George One's Time.
The U.S. set the area on the road to chaos, then stepped away.

Now; The gentle people are running for safety.
If we destroy these families; What will be left?
Spoiler:
(sigh...) That is the best argument for. "The people of the U.S. have 'It' coming."

Why not let the people of the U.S. feel Russian Autocracy Rule
and the sting of wide spread poverty while the rulers ride private jets?

The people of the U.S. have ridden the waves of the suffering of others for fifty years.


I know.
I know.
Off Topic and Linkless.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:02 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I'm still uncomfortable referring to it as 'genocide', because the people aren't local. This isn't a similar situation as when the US (and Canada and Australia) rounded up native children in order to eliminate their culture and nationality entirely. The US isn't invading Guatemala and rounding up the people there to be "re-educated", though the US does bear a huge responsiblity for the genocide of the Mayans during the second half of the 20th century due to the civil war it caused on behalf of the fucking Chiquita company.

I think it fits because you're picking out an ethic group for child separation. The administration has a pattern and practice of singling out minorities.
It has similarities to how the rohinga Muslims in Asia are treated. With disdain and callousness.
The problem is that it's Not in-your-face crime like Trump ordering the white domestic terrorist groups to kidnap brown people. So it sorta looks normal, people get arrested all the time. Brown people are illegal immigrants all the time.
Without the opposition controlling Congress, or the border states, you're gonna struggle to convince Republicans that this issue-which-makes-them-look-bad should be investigated.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:07 pm UTC

There was a time when Russia killed 400,000 Frenchmen. Those Frenchmen were being led by Napoleon at the time, and no sane person views it as a genocide. And even if Russia had instead invaded France and killed those French soldiers, being a war it still wouldn't be considered genocide. However, had they been random (or not so random) French civilians that they rounded up and killed, it would be a genocide.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:17 pm UTC

Related, although the other kind of Indians, so probably not a Trump thing. But quite possibly the same sort of blueprint of thought behind it.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Sableagle » Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:22 pm UTC

sardia wrote:The administration has a pattern and practice of singling out minorities.


"These are yer enemies! There are the people who're tryin' to take over yer country!"
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm UTC

Look I know YouTube is a thing, but can we please have print journalists? Preferably 1-2 links max per post, if it's not too much to ask.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:17 pm UTC

Good news: Trump administration must stop giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent

Bad news: Trump administration had been giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent, needed to be told by a judge to stop doing that
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:22 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Good news: Trump administration must stop giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent

Bad news: Trump administration had been giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent, needed to be told by a judge to stop doing that


Worse news: The facility has been in operation since 2013, and has likely been doing the same shit the whole time.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:40 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:Good news: Trump administration must stop giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent

Bad news: Trump administration had been giving psychotropic drugs to migrant children without consent, needed to be told by a judge to stop doing that


Worse news: The facility has been in operation since 2013, and has likely been doing the same shit the whole time.

Since it's being used as a convenience/compliance device, wouldn't the usage depend on how many kids are crammed in there?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:44 am UTC

From the linked article:

The facility also has a history of troubling practices, including allegations of child abuse, according to the Center for Investigative Reporting. A local congresswoman called for Shiloh to be shut down four years ago after the Houston Chronicle reported on long-running allegations of physical violence, excessive use of physical restraints and several deaths of children in custody.

A doctor at Shiloh who has signed off on many prescriptions for psychotropic drugs to immigrant children has practiced without board certification to treat children and adolescents for nearly a decade, the Center for Investigative Reporting found.


emphasis added.


Numerous sworn testimonies in court affidavits indicated children at Shiloh were regularly given psychotropic medication without the proper parental consent. Sometimes they were told these were vitamins.

The article links to the afidavits, which show dates in June of 2016.

This facility didn't suddenly become horrible when Trump got elected. It's possible things got worse, but they started out pretty bad.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:49 am UTC

Holy shit, can this get any worse? At this point, I'm prepared to see headlines of "Trump ordered to stop eating baby hearts without parental permission".

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby gd1 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:50 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:From the linked article:

The facility also has a history of troubling practices, including allegations of child abuse, according to the Center for Investigative Reporting. A local congresswoman called for Shiloh to be shut down four years ago after the Houston Chronicle reported on long-running allegations of physical violence, excessive use of physical restraints and several deaths of children in custody.

A doctor at Shiloh who has signed off on many prescriptions for psychotropic drugs to immigrant children has practiced without board certification to treat children and adolescents for nearly a decade, the Center for Investigative Reporting found.


emphasis added.


Numerous sworn testimonies in court affidavits indicated children at Shiloh were regularly given psychotropic medication without the proper parental consent. Sometimes they were told these were vitamins.

The article links to the afidavits, which show dates in June of 2016.

This facility didn't suddenly become horrible when Trump got elected. It's possible things got worse, but they started out pretty bad.


Immorality isn't an excuse for immorality (just because you drink too much doesn't make smoking too a good idea). It was wrong then, it's still wrong now and the problem is being exacerbated with more people being affected. Just because the previous administration allowed something wrong doesn't allow the current one to do the same or in this case much worse.

In unrelated thoughts:
I almost said immortality isn't an excuse for immortality... other possible combinations being immortality isn't an excuse for immorality and immorality isn't an excuse for immortality.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:44 am UTC

gd1 wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:From the linked article:

The facility also has a history of troubling practices, including allegations of child abuse, according to the Center for Investigative Reporting. A local congresswoman called for Shiloh to be shut down four years ago after the Houston Chronicle reported on long-running allegations of physical violence, excessive use of physical restraints and several deaths of children in custody.

A doctor at Shiloh who has signed off on many prescriptions for psychotropic drugs to immigrant children has practiced without board certification to treat children and adolescents for nearly a decade, the Center for Investigative Reporting found.


emphasis added.


Numerous sworn testimonies in court affidavits indicated children at Shiloh were regularly given psychotropic medication without the proper parental consent. Sometimes they were told these were vitamins.

The article links to the afidavits, which show dates in June of 2016.

This facility didn't suddenly become horrible when Trump got elected. It's possible things got worse, but they started out pretty bad.


Immorality isn't an excuse for immorality (just because you drink too much doesn't make smoking too a good idea). It was wrong then, it's still wrong now and the problem is being exacerbated with more people being affected. Just because the previous administration allowed something wrong doesn't allow the current one to do the same or in this case much worse.

In unrelated thoughts:
I almost said immortality isn't an excuse for immortality... other possible combinations being immortality isn't an excuse for immorality and immorality isn't an excuse for immortality.



I never said otherwise. If anything, a lot of people seem to think the current administration's immorality somehow excuses the admittedly fewer immoralities of previous administrations. They don't, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

If you want to solve the problem, you can't stop at laying the blame at Trump's feet. Both parties have contributed to the current climate of systemic abuses and injustices. Comprehensive reforms of the entire system are needed.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:14 pm UTC

oh,...Good Grief!
It seems you are correct.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:14 am UTC

"If you want to buy groceries, you need a picture!"

In all fairness to the Orange One, booze and cigarettes are indeed routinely on the list of groceries at the Trump household, along with cocaine and cowshit. Not to mention that Trump is routinely that old fart who holds up the whole grocery line to write a check, which not only bounces but burns the hands of anyone it touches.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:52 am UTC

oh,...No!
Have you heard of Q

oh, Good Grief.
Q is supported by Orange in person??
I know it Can get weirder. I want it to Stop!
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:25 am UTC

(Qanon is like this "wanne be Deep Throat figure" made up as a 'dank meme' or more likely the face of the Internet Research Institute, isn't it?)

I read a Trump tweet just now: "Join me tomorrow night at 7pmE in Wilkes-Barre Township, Pennsylvania for a MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN RALLY!". IRTA "Wilkes Booth", at first. A highlight to my day, momentarily.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby addams » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:25 am UTC

Yes...Just under the surface, many of us wish ill in a way that is New to us.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Xeio » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:10 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:"If you want to buy groceries, you need a picture!"

In all fairness to the Orange One, booze and cigarettes are indeed routinely on the list of groceries at the Trump household, along with cocaine and cowshit. Not to mention that Trump is routinely that old fart who holds up the whole grocery line to write a check, which not only bounces but burns the hands of anyone it touches.
Often when the voter ID argument comes up people vastly overstatement what you actually need a photo ID for when they claim everyone must already have one. Not surprising Trump has found the as yet undiscovered stupidest form of this argument.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:23 pm UTC

But the funny thing is that you do need an ID to be legally employed in the US, to fill out the I-9 forms. That would've been a much more solid argument.

Question; do you need ID to apply for welfare?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:28 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:But the funny thing is that you do need an ID to be legally employed in the US, to fill out the I-9 forms. That would've been a much more solid argument.

Question; do you need ID to apply for welfare?


You need ID, but it doesn't necessarily need to be photo ID. At least for SNAP, etc. Other programs may have a higher bar and require photo ID, or specific states may require photo ID in addition to the regular requirements.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:19 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:I never said otherwise. If anything, a lot of people seem to think the current administration's immorality somehow excuses the admittedly fewer immoralities of previous administrations. They don't, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

If you want to solve the problem, you can't stop at laying the blame at Trump's feet. Both parties have contributed to the current climate of systemic abuses and injustices. Comprehensive reforms of the entire system are needed.

Watch me.

When Obama was elected, the Democratic Party controlled the House but not the Senate. With the 2010 elections, that went away, resulting in neither party having control of both Presidency and both halves of Congress. On top of the overt hostility towards Obama which, in my opinion, had Obama put forth a suggestion for Mitch McConnell to be given an ice cream cone would have resulted in something along the lines of Mitch saying "Obama is declaring all Republicans to be fat and out of shape and also he's got a stupid face"

In short, I wouldn't be certain that a resolution stating that the sky was typically blue would get passed. That anything occurred is kinda miraculous. Something like "drugging children who shouldn't be in the country in the first place" is going to get pushed aside when you can block a President from doing their goddamn job as per the Constitution.

Today, the Republican Party controls both halves of Congress and the Presidency. Stopping an immoral practice such as this should take less than five minutes.

Instead, there's a shitload of "But the prior administration did it so..." "The law clearly states that.." which seems to indicate one of two things to me.

1. The current Presidential Administration is so fucking clueless that they have no idea how anything works, that they can choose to just.. not enforce certain laws on controversial subjects (like all prior administrations have done) and kinda let the States figure it out.

2. They prefer it this way, the Evil way, they just have a scapegoat their followers are too ignorant to realize is a scapegoat.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:50 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:had Obama put forth a suggestion for Mitch McConnell to be given an ice cream cone would have resulted in something along the lines of Mitch saying "Obama is declaring all Republicans to be fat and out of shape and also he's got a stupid face"


I think it'd be more on the lines of "Obama tries to assassinate Mitch McConnell". Obama doesn't know that Mitch McConnell doesn't have nut allergies, does he? And if he does, "Obama is spying on political opponents, making him worse than Nixon!"

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:06 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:I never said otherwise. If anything, a lot of people seem to think the current administration's immorality somehow excuses the admittedly fewer immoralities of previous administrations. They don't, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

If you want to solve the problem, you can't stop at laying the blame at Trump's feet. Both parties have contributed to the current climate of systemic abuses and injustices. Comprehensive reforms of the entire system are needed.

Watch me.

When Obama was elected, the Democratic Party controlled the House but not the Senate. With the 2010 elections, that went away, resulting in neither party having control of both Presidency and both halves of Congress. On top of the overt hostility towards Obama which, in my opinion, had Obama put forth a suggestion for Mitch McConnell to be given an ice cream cone would have resulted in something along the lines of Mitch saying "Obama is declaring all Republicans to be fat and out of shape and also he's got a stupid face"

In short, I wouldn't be certain that a resolution stating that the sky was typically blue would get passed. That anything occurred is kinda miraculous. Something like "drugging children who shouldn't be in the country in the first place" is going to get pushed aside when you can block a President from doing their goddamn job as per the Constitution.


many of the things I disagree with Obama about are entirely contained within the authority of the office of the President and head of the Executive branch of the government.
It doesn't take an act of congress to shut down a facility drugging kids, The Department of Homeland Security which contains the various law enforcement agencies responsible for the U.S. borders is an executive branch department, Obama had broad authority to set enforcement and detainment policies and congress would have had very little power to do anything about it.
Congress didn't prosecute an unprecedented number of whistleblowers, or fail virtually every conceivable transparency metric after promising to increase the transparency of the presidency. Congress didn't create a literal 'kill list' or personally authorize the assassination of American citizens or authorize double-tap drone strikes that killed exclusively civilians.

These are all things that were either within Obama's power to stop without needing any approval from congress, or things that Obama actually did exclusively under his own authority as President.

SecondTalon wrote:Today, the Republican Party controls both halves of Congress and the Presidency. Stopping an immoral practice such as this should take less than five minutes.

Instead, there's a shitload of "But the prior administration did it so..." "The law clearly states that.." which seems to indicate one of two things to me.

1. The current Presidential Administration is so fucking clueless that they have no idea how anything works, that they can choose to just.. not enforce certain laws on controversial subjects (like all prior administrations have done) and kinda let the States figure it out.

2. They prefer it this way, the Evil way, they just have a scapegoat their followers are too ignorant to realize is a scapegoat.


And there was a shitload of 'But the Prior administration...' when Obama was ordering the assassination of U.S. citizens by drone-strike. And there was a shitload of 'But the prior administration' when Bush was systematically erasing our civil liberties with full support of both parties, and so on...
Of course they prefer it this way, Both parties do, the democrats are only different by degree. The Republicans would prefer it if their voters kept blaming Democrats for everything wrong, and the Democrats prefer it that their voters keep blaming Republicans for all their ills.

Trump is just the latest asshole in charge of a broken system. The first step in fixing it is recognizing that Trump isn't special or unique in his awfulness, except perhaps in magnitude, and that the actual problem is systemic and institutional. Getting rid of Trump isn't going to fix things unless the system that created and enabled him is also fixed.
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:13 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:These are all things that were either within Obama's power to stop without needing any approval from congress, or things that Obama actually did exclusively under his own authority as President.


I concur that this definitely falls on the Democrats. Sure, they're not terribly responsible for what they don't control, but lack of complete control doesn't excuse the things they did hold responsibility for.

This probably doesn't make Obama an excessively bad president...if you glance over history, there's a lot of errors to choose from. He's probably middle of the pack overall. Still, fair to call him and his administration out for their actions.

And there was a shitload of 'But the Prior administration...' when Obama was ordering the assassination of U.S. citizens by drone-strike. And there was a shitload of 'But the prior administration' when Bush was systematically erasing our civil liberties with full support of both parties, and so on...
Of course they want it this way, Both parties do, the democrats are only different by degree.


Definitely. This is an excellent reason to vote third party, or to seek reform in the big two.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:21 pm UTC

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 2e&ampcf=1
Has anyone noticed the latest conspiracy theory, Qanonymous? I'm really hoping the answer is no, you haven't heard this nutter conspiracy. This is cult level shit, and I hope the ones who act in this blatantly false theory don't kill anyone. I'm only ok posting it here because not a lot of people come here.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:28 pm UTC

*reads*

Uh, odd. Had not previously heard of it, but seems far out there.

Partisanship is pretty strong. It might be easy for something crazy to go viral within a given community who has leanings anyways, but it seems less likely to maintain that traction once it gets out of that fertile soil. I'm not even a diehard leftist, but I have significant doubts believing that Trump engineered a massive conspiracy for anything. He's...not subtle.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

I only heard about it last night when I saw it in the news.

Honestly, I think it's one of those that doesn't exist until the news claims it does.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:10 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:*reads*

Uh, odd. Had not previously heard of it, but seems far out there.

Partisanship is pretty strong. It might be easy for something crazy to go viral within a given community who has leanings anyways, but it seems less likely to maintain that traction once it gets out of that fertile soil. I'm not even a diehard leftist, but I have significant doubts believing that Trump engineered a massive conspiracy for anything. He's...not subtle.


Wild thought: X-Files aired 1993 to 2002 and was accompanied by a host of other conspiracy-theory driven intellectual properties. Children growing up during the 90's popularity of conspiracy theories would be in their late twenties and early thirties now. I'm curious how that demographic maps with this current phenomenon.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Tyndmyr » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:29 pm UTC

There's always been a certain segment of the population who is extremely eager to believe in every conspiracy theory that comes along. I got an uncle that is dead certain the moon landings are faked. But aliens are real. Frigging loves Trump, of course. I suppose I could call and ask him if he heard of this, but...honestly, that conversation's gonna be tedious, and probably will help nothing.

Don't think it's much of a Millenial/younger thing. People have been talking about Bigfoot/JFK/Moon Landings/Area 51/God knows what for ages now. There's just always a fringe that wants to somehow connect absolutely everything together, logic be damned.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby CorruptUser » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:39 pm UTC

The JFK thing was spread by the Russians to undermine the legitimacy of the American police/investigations forces. I don't think modern conspiracies are much different.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:40 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:40 pm UTC

I'd seen it mentioned before, various places, though knowing its origins upon 4chan had paid it little heed. The latest thing I saw about it was in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-45040614 just yesterday, and seems to be no saner than expected.

The investigation that is supposed to be looking at things Trump might be guilty of being involved with is actually Trump's attempt to clean up everyone else? Sounds more like a Find The Lady patter, deliberately meant to distract. Or a just a Dadaist fantasy never meant to be married to reality, never mind becoming divorced from it.

In my decades of experience with various corners of the Internet, I've seen more than enough to keep me from being creduluous at such claims. But I also know that there's Fox Mulders out there who want to believe! Whether they do or not, and plenty of Barnums who don't believe themselves but are willing to put the effort in to make others do so, for shitzNgiggles. And that's basically 4chan's thing in a nutshell (and satellite chans/etc).


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