Trump presidency

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:07 pm UTC

Tyndmyr wrote:The door knocking is a bit tedious, sometimes.

It's a shame, because I actually enjoy having conversations with religious people... just not when I'm currently busy doing something else.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby doogly » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:08 pm UTC

LDS folks are definitely Christian though.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Weeks » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:16 pm UTC

Your face is definitely Christian. As in you look like Jesus.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby doogly » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:21 pm UTC

Yeah, but usually I have my hair back so it isn't quite the same effect.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

addams wrote:
Dauric wrote:Frontline: The Facebook Dilemma

A two hour documentary on Facebook and it's influence on the 2016 election as well as events around the world, including the Russian misinformation campaigns and how they worked.
That helped with my sense of chronology.
What went wrong and when.


So to try to get back to the topic...

Muller is unlikely to find evidence of collusion with the Russians because that's not how the Russian campaign worked. Facebook's algorithms for determining what pops up in your feed have a tendency to reward posts that generate a strong emotional response. Search Bubbles as we all know them. Russia weaponized this technique by creating groups that optimized the emotional response on both conservative and liberal sides, creating propaganda that would drive both camps deeper in to their respective corners.

Trump's confrontational and fringe-conspiracy style benefited more from that informational environment where the opposition is demonized than Hillary or the Democrats. His tendency and ability to inflate conspiracy theories to mainstream talking points played right in to what the Russians were doing, where the Democrats generally shied away from making the equivalent crazy part of their platforms.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:09 pm UTC

His family and Trump colluding with Russians can't be ruled out. Possible routes are Trump's debts via Russians mobs, whatever the hell Flynn was doing, and manafort's indictment are all plausible routes for collusion.

Back on topic.
https://archives.cjr.org/united_states_ ... on_tip.php
The GOP and Trump are about to do so some damage control, which means tons of fake news coming. Here's what to do if you see one,
1. Don�t repeat false claims. If Trump claims that undocumented immigrants are voting in Texas, just quote-tweeting him without contextualizing his claims by discussing the evidence or lack of evidence supporting them helps spread the misinformation.
2. Reduce partisan cues. It�s not enough to say, �Trump says voter fraud occurred, Democrats disagree.� To most readers, that means either side could be right and the parties are just disagreeing as usual. If Trump�s claims need to be debunked, it can be done in an authoritative and nonpartisan


There's more like, don't use negation/ Trump is not a rapist makes people remember that he's a rapist.

Very useful when speaking to co-workers or family members who cross you.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:26 pm UTC

Alright, now that control of the house is in the hands of Democrats, with full subpoena power and oversight, what does everyone think the upcoming political storms will be for the Trump white house?

My guesses are: Trump's Taxes, Whatever the hell is going on with the EPA, and a pile of internal affairs issues that will turn up once we start looking under rocks.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Dauric » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:36 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:Alright, now that control of the house is in the hands of Democrats, with full subpoena power and oversight, what does everyone think the upcoming political storms will be for the Trump white house?

My guesses are: Trump's Taxes, Whatever the hell is going on with the EPA, and a pile of internal affairs issues that will turn up once we start looking under rocks.


Any action on those investigations will end up being "In the Court of Public Opinion" given the Senate is even more firmly Republican. The House might impeach, but it has an infinitesimally close to zero chance of being confirmed by the Senate. Unless something drastic happens that releases Trump's grip on the Republican party (that infinitesimal chance above) he's still going to be in the White House through 2020.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:38 pm UTC

Downside: Trump's talk of Democrats obstructing things start to hold water. (Like a sludge-filled sieve, but better than the ripped fishnet stockings soaked in prostitute pee that it was before.)

Base will be base, won't care either way, but can point to this instead of the shadow-puppet of a shadow-government pretty much solely being formed by a small pair of hands.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:24 pm UTC

I don't think there's many Democrats in any house who are seriously considering impeachment, but they can certainly act as an amount of oversight. The republicans are likely to rile up their base and call it obstruction, but coming from them that will be mighty rich.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:16 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:I don't think there's many Democrats in any house who are seriously considering impeachment, but they can certainly act as an amount of oversight. The republicans are likely to rile up their base and call it obstruction, but coming from them that will be mighty rich.

Doesn't matter, because Trump has state media behind him and he has successfully branded non loyal media as fake news. The generic path now is to ungerrymander where the Democrats have control, and hope the more voters tire of him by 2020. The economy might fall again as well but that's unpredictable.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:52 pm UTC

Sessions resigned. Hell's chains are getting pretty weak.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Plasma_Wolf » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:23 pm UTC

He resigned on request of Trump, apparently. A friendly way of Trump firing him.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:27 pm UTC

Crabtree's bludgeon: “no set of mutually inconsistent observations can exist for which some human intellect cannot conceive a coherent explanation, however complicated”
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby JudeMorrigan » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:29 pm UTC


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Re: Trump presidency

Postby freezeblade » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:53 pm UTC

this doesn't bode well.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:55 pm UTC

I'm surprised how relaxed everyone is, and that there isn't more of an outcry. Pretty worried about the Mueller investigation. I highly doubt that a Trump loyalist would recuse himself or be neutral on the investigation. Let's see if he starts a witch Hunt on Democrats or spends his time sabotaging Mueller.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:57 pm UTC

We've known it was going to happen for a long time. We've been able to prepare ourselves mentally, and with the Dems in control of the House it means that it isn't the death of the investigation.

EDIT:

Might as well start hitting the streets.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:47 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:An op-ed by our new Acting AG:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/06/opinions ... r-opinion/
That article is baffling. Even a layman understands that during an investigation, you follow the money; besides, the point of investigating adjacent crimes isn't to pursue those crimes, but to use those crimes as leverage against their participants to permit the continuance of the core investigation.

His mention of the difference between 'special counsel' and 'independent counsel' is particularly galling -- like he's trying to just do some dumb spin job for Trump. He's trying to imply that "independent" here means Starr had more flexibility to do his own thing, but in this context, "special" and "independent" are interchangeable -- they mean the same thing. The scope and power of their investigations might be different, but that difference has nothing to do with the terms "special" versus "independent".

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Isaac Hill » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:33 am UTC

Thesh wrote:Sessions resigned. Hell's chains are getting pretty weak.
That's too bad. Sessions' Lawful Evil will no longer be able to check Trump's Chaotic Evil.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby RealisticIdealist » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:42 am UTC

During a press conference the day after the midterms, CNN white house correspondent Jim Acosta and Trump get into a slightly heated exchange.
https://youtu.be/4BZ8ck_7cqk

In response, jim acosta has his white house pass revoked. Supposedly, the reason is not the exchange or questions, but that he laid his hands on the young woman white house aide during it.
https://mobile.twitter.com/PressSec/sta ... 6252448768

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Angua » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:00 am UTC

Have you seen the clip of the 'laying hands'? It's a joke.

edit: Sorry, meant to add in said clip.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby RealisticIdealist » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:08 am UTC

Yeah it's pretty pathetic. The white house correspondents accosiation has rebuked the white house in a statement.
https://mobile.twitter.com/whca/status/ ... 1359519745

In the past, the press corps show some solidarity against things like this. At one point in his presidency, the Obama administration didn't invite Fox news to a few interviews, and other members of the corps refused to participate as a protest until the Obama administration reversed course.

Let's hope there is some similar backlash here.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:12 pm UTC

Right at this moment, the media is talking about whether or not a reporter who refused to give up a microphone and maybe brushed his hand up against some lady's arm is guilty of "inappropriate behavior". News organizations are, right now, hosting debates over whether or not he should apologize, or Trump should apologize and restore his press pass.

Journalists are covering this. Journalists who have covered wars. Journalists who have covered Presidential assassinations. Journalists who have covered Watergate.

This is what they're covering today.

CNN's response included the following text:
In an explanation, Press Secretary Sarah Sanders lied. She provided fraudulent accusations and cited an incident that never happened. This unprecedented decision is a threat to our democracy and the country deserves better. Jim Acosta has our full support.
A man behaved a little rudely; the President threw a tantrum and decided he's not allowed to come back. Our journalists respond by claiming that this is a threat to democracy.

Ladies and gentlemen: The American News Media.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:24 pm UTC

That's because they are extreme-centrist media. They cannot just criticize Republicans; they have to talk about both sides of the issue. The scary part is that Republicans consider them all to be left wing, and no matter how much they bend over backwards to try and seem balanced, they never learn and Republicans just continue to call them left-wing. As if Republicans have an ideology other than "any criticism of anything Republicans believe means you hate America".
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby RealisticIdealist » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:25 pm UTC

Well, one threat among many for sure, but I don't think you should understate this story. Being able to throw blatantly false (with video evidence!) attacks on journalists to deny their access to do their job and cover the government is pretty bad. Trump has done a lot worse, for sure, and those stories should be covered (*cough*Jeff sessions*cough*) but we shouldn't let this attack on media be normalized.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby The Great Hippo » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:40 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:That's because they are extreme-centrist media. They cannot just criticize Republicans; they have to talk about both sides of the issue. The scary part is that Republicans consider them all to be left wing, and no matter how much they bend over backwards to try and seem balanced, they never learn and Republicans just continue to call them left-wing. As if Republicans have an ideology other than "any criticism of anything Republicans believe means you hate America".
It isn't the discussing both sides of the issue that concerns me; it's the hyperbolic sensitivity our news media has to Trump's attacks.

Trump regularly insults the media. Trump calls the media the "enemy of the people". Trump would be more than happy to have the employees of every news station arrested, deported, and replaced with 24/7 Fox and Friends. Yes, we get it. Trump fucking hates you, media. If he could, he'd make reporting anything negative about him literally a crime.

But you know what? He can't fucking do that. So strap on your journalist-pants, wipe away your tears, and stop acting like whiny little babies every time Trump publicly fantasizes about running a fascist regime where he could throw you all in prison. Especially since there are actual people he is actually throwing into prison.

They need to stop acting like every mean thing this man says about the media is the death of democracy, especially since there are so many things this man and his party are doing that are legitimate threats to democracy.
RealisticIdealist wrote:Well, one threat among many for sure, but I don't think you should understate this story. Being able to throw blatantly false (with video evidence!) attacks on journalists to deny their access to do their job and cover the government is pretty bad. Trump has done a lot worse, for sure, and those stories should be covered (*cough*Jeff sessions*cough*) but we shouldn't let this attack on media be normalized.
I absolutely agree that when this administration lies, you need to break those lies down. But this obsession with painting themselves as martyrs fighting for their very souls seriously needs to go.

CNN's response should have been eight words long:
This is a lie. Here's the video. [LINK].
Bam. Done. We can all move on.

You know why Trump is such a 'mastermind' when it comes to managing our media? Because our media has skin thinner than the toilet paper in an airport bathroom stall.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby orthogon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:33 pm UTC

The BBC News website story has this intriguing passage:

BBC News wrote:The press secretary later shared a zoomed in clip of the incident, which observers say is a doctored video originally posted by right-wing conspiracy theorist Paul Joseph Watson.


What are they getting at here? Who are these unnamed "observers"? If it's been doctored, why don't they show how? I notice that Watson has struck back saying that all he did was to zoom in on the two people involved.

Idle thought - why didn't they just kill the mic at the desk? Does the physical object act like the conch in Lord of the Flies? Do you get to talk as long as you're holding it?

Watching the whole incident, it amazes me just how childish Trump is. I get that he's a bully and an arsehole, but he's not even a very good bully. His verbal attacks on Acosta aren't only distinctly sub-Wildean in their biting wittiness: they're so pathetic he'd be laughed out of the playground. He just says "you're terrible, you shouldn't work for CNN". Really? Is that the best he can do?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:48 pm UTC


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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:19 pm UTC

That Twitter thread RealisticIdealist posted above of Sanders’ posting of the doctored video also has extensive discussion of how it is doctored, with video evidence.

And IMO even the doctored video doesn’t show anything offensive on Acosta’s part.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Soupspoon » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:24 pm UTC

orthogon wrote:If it's been doctored, why don't they show how?

Not playing any footage myself on this stuttery connection, at the moment, but I'm assuming this is suitable evidence for refutation:
https://mobile.twitter.com/rafaelshimun ... 7817708544

If not, apologies.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:47 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:That Twitter thread RealisticIdealist posted above of Sanders’ posting of the doctored video also has extensive discussion of how it is doctored, with video evidence.

And IMO even the doctored video doesn’t show anything offensive on Acosta’s part.


Yeah, just not seeing it... doctored or not, there simply isn't anything there that constitutes any sort of assault on his part. If anything, she initiated whatever contact there was by grabbing.

On the one hand, it's offensive as hell that they would fake a video just to mess with a journalist; but on the other hand, it's fucking hilarious how inept they are about doing it.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:58 pm UTC

cphite wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:That Twitter thread RealisticIdealist posted above of Sanders’ posting of the doctored video also has extensive discussion of how it is doctored, with video evidence.

And IMO even the doctored video doesn’t show anything offensive on Acosta’s part.


Yeah, just not seeing it... doctored or not, there simply isn't anything there that constitutes any sort of assault on his part. If anything, she initiated whatever contact there was by grabbing.

On the one hand, it's offensive as hell that they would fake a video just to mess with a journalist; but on the other hand, it's fucking hilarious how inept they are about doing it.

Partisanship is a drug that bends minds of party loyalists. No matter how inept or evil, or silly it is. Remember how Roy Moore convinced evangelicals that he wasn't a pedophile? Or how senator menendez isn't a crook?

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:07 pm UTC

Something I find darkly amusing(?) about this is how transparent it seems that the Trump administration is trying to turn "leftist concerns" like sexual assault into weapons against "leftists". "Look, this man made contact with this woman who I sent to wrestle something out of his hands! Inappropriate touching! You lefties go berserk over that right? Demonize the man for something ridiculously trivial like you liberals always do, only this time I want you to do it!"
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:36 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Something I find darkly amusing(?) about this is how transparent it seems that the Trump administration is trying to turn "leftist concerns" like sexual assault into weapons against "leftists". "Look, this man made contact with this woman who I sent to wrestle something out of his hands! Inappropriate touching! You lefties go berserk over that right? Demonize the man for something ridiculously trivial like you liberals always do, only this time I want you to do it!"

I think that might ultimately end up helping those concerns along! A right-wing nut can dismiss the leftist whining all day long, but now suddenly they feel obliged to defend this woman (and condemn this man). That's gonna require a shift in thinking that no amount of left-wing media could have changed.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby sardia » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:40 pm UTC

Pffft, conservatives don't have a problem defending a woman who got assaulted. It just has to be a white woman, the hotter the better, oh and she can't do anything controversial besides speak about how taking off her clothes is so empowering.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby cphite » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:52 pm UTC

SDK wrote:
Pfhorrest wrote:Something I find darkly amusing(?) about this is how transparent it seems that the Trump administration is trying to turn "leftist concerns" like sexual assault into weapons against "leftists". "Look, this man made contact with this woman who I sent to wrestle something out of his hands! Inappropriate touching! You lefties go berserk over that right? Demonize the man for something ridiculously trivial like you liberals always do, only this time I want you to do it!"


I think that might ultimately end up helping those concerns along! A right-wing nut can dismiss the leftist whining all day long, but now suddenly they feel obliged to defend this woman (and condemn this man). That's gonna require a shift in thinking that no amount of left-wing media could have changed.


A nut will convince himself that this was an actual assault while continuing to dismiss the other side; that's part of what being a nut means. It requires no shift in thinking because the conclusion isn't based on thought in the first place.

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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Thesh » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:56 pm UTC

There are so many contradictions in Republican politics that I just don't see how this will change anything. They will talk all day about strong Christian values, but have no problem rationalizing voting for someone who embodies pride, greed, wrath, envy, lust, sloth, and gluttony while not displaying a single Christian virtue, and they can't even criticize them. Republicans don't have any deeply-seated beliefs; they just have identity politics and enemies.
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby SDK » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:55 pm UTC

Well, I can hope. :?
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Re: Trump presidency

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:55 pm UTC

Even the right-wing adoption of "identity politics" is itself an example of the same kind of thing I was laughing(?) at, the right taking a thing that they perceive to be an egregious fault of the left, something they love to complain and complain about the left doing, and then suddenly going "right then, I'll do that terrible thing back to you too!" even though it was never being done to them in the first place. So the perceived attacks against "normal people" by an unholy alliance of wimmin, queerz and colordz was met with "identitarianism": straight white cismen can play identity politics too. And now in the aftermath of #metoo where the right wing perceive every man to be one flimsy allegation by a woman away from being tarred and feathered for his toxic masculinity, they think they can weaponize that by screaming "inappropriate touching!" at something that not even the loudest #metoo supporter would consider such.
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