idonno wrote:I don't know about the specific case but there are an lot of people that aren't anywhere near as skilled at reading social cues as others assume they should be. "No" may mean "no" but when someone assumes that they have told someone "no" without actually telling them "no" it can make the rejected person look like someone who won't take "no" for an answer when they are still trying to determine what the answer is. Nobody wants to be perceived as socially incompetent or as the guy who can't take "no" for an answer so "eggshells".eran_rathan wrote:Why does it make you feel like you have to walk on eggshells?
I think it's the combination of this with what ObsessoMom, Ginger, Morris et al are saying, that lead to complex situation for many of us. You've got difficulty on the receive side (reading social cues), combined with lack of clarity on the transmit side (ambiguous/mixed signals, euphemism, face-saving, playing hard-to-get, etc.). In my experience, there's always been an element of pleading involved in a sexual encounter. The first night we went home together, my now wife was definitely giving the impression she wasn't up for anything other than listening to music. Things went somewhere after we started dancing together to said music, but not before I'd been on the receiving end of what I now know to have been teasing. Now I know that she was totally into me from the first time we met. On another occasion, one girl asked me crossly "why do you assume I'd want to kiss you?" (if she'd known anything about me, she'd know I would never assume any such thing) before doing exactly that. Basically, I've mainly had success when I have pushed myself and the situation beyond what I'm completely comfortable with. I'm not talking about forcing myself on somebody without any positive signs and certainly not against explicitly expressed wishes, but I am talking about not giving up in the face of apparent reluctance. But in those cases the result showed that I was, in effect, right to do so. Perhaps somebody more neurotypical observing the situation would say "of course she was teasing you" or "you must have been reading the signs after all", and perhaps at some subconscious level I really was. But for shy people like me it never gets easier, and we probably err on unnecessarily on the side of caution, missing out on many potential liaisons, relationships and marriages as a result.
My guess is that for the sexual harrasser personality type, it works the other way: each time that happens it's a positive reinforcement of the idea that being pushy and not taking "no" for an answer is the way to get results. I guess that extends to doing things that I'd consider totally unacceptable, like grabbing somebody and kissing them without any exploratory first moves. If the other person is up for it, that will probably pay off; indeed, given that most people find confidence attractive, it might even work more often than a more tentative approach. Given what Ginger said, even the very wrongness of it might be attractive to some women. Of course, a lot of the time the recipient won't want it at all, but historically all they could do was administer a slap or endure it. It's the result of those encounters that we're seeing now.
CorruptUser wrote:The problem is when you are trying to treat them like humans while still trying to ask them out. Basic rule is don't ask them out unless there is an actual reason the person would date you. Random person on the street? Who the hell are you and what do we have in common? I just want to get from my apartment to the grocery store and back without being harassed. Person at the same professional convention? Oh, you are an attorney too; what field of practice? Tort, really me too! Say, want to grab a cup of coffee while we discuss our best horror stories?
I met a girl on a street once and approached her. Unfortunately, the street was in Paris, where I didn't live, but we had an on-and-off thing for several years after that and I think both feel it was a very positive thing overall. The way we'd met was part of our story that we both liked to bring up. I don't accept that it's wrong to approach someone in the street or anywhere; in fact in some ways it's the professional convention example that I find more questionable, since people might (I know it's a stretch, but hear me out) have gone there for entirely professional reasons. In general, I wish I had more courage to speak to strangers, since it is usually a very enjoyable experience, quite aside from the potential it might have to lead to something romantic or platonic. We're a social species, and meeting people, especially in a context where it's easy for both parties to escape, is a positive and natural thing. And when this happens between two people of compatible genders, sexualities and relationship statuses, there's always the chance that it could go somewhere very mutually desirable.