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Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:09 am UTC
by sardia
CorruptUser wrote:Hey, progress it progress. Don't mock them, it just sets them back. Remember that during the Emmet Till case, most of Alabama was horrified... until everyone else started mocking Alabama (which it definitely earned), turning it into a nationalistic issue and suddenly the murderers were state heroes that could have done no wrong.

Do you have a citation for this?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pow ... to-resign/
Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting (KyCIR) published an expose Monday detailing allegations of how the Republican state representative — and self-proclaimed “Pope” of his Louisville church — woke his daughter’s friend during a sleepover in 2013 and forced himself on her, slipping his hands up her shirt and bra and putting his fingers in her vagina. The KyCIR report highlights how Johnson — known in his church community as “Danny Ray Johnson” — painted a picture of himself over the years as a pro-gun, pro-life “patriot,” which helped propel him into the Kentucky legislature in 2016, when he won the House’s 49th District seat. But the seven-month investigation, comprised of more than 100 interviews and thousands of pages of public records, alleges the Republican’s persona is orchestrated to mask a series of concerning incidents — including sexual abuse, arson and false testimony.
Got another raper of teens here, but he also a druggie and an arsonist of his own church.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:33 am UTC
by Ginger
SDK wrote:
slinches wrote:It's a real effect that will likely produce negative unintended consequences if we don't address it.

I mean, you cite "huge consequences", but when have you ever seen someone punished based on nothing but one accusation? It's either a multitude of accusations or there's a bunch of other evidence. So I'll again default to the "don't do it and you'll be fine" mantra.

I've been accused and prosecuted based on a single man's testimony. He got a restraining order based on a single threat and no pattern of behavior. Plus people treat me more like a creepy cross dressing man so I sympathize with men here. People have misinterpreted my actions in the worst possible light--Criminal actions, creepy actions or what have you. And it took next to no evidence or patterns of harassment to start a trial.

Update: Do I excuse myself because I felt it unfair? No. I made a confession and technically they were just doing their jobs. But I always like thought it took more than one person's words to get you in trouble for criminal harassment?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:30 am UTC
by Mutex
Thesh wrote:I'm going with surprised and upbeat. Upbeat because this was also due to Trump being a disease that causes loserness.

Moore's poll numbers improved after Trump's endorsement. This is Alabama, an endorsement from Trump is going to help. Although it's possible Moore's poll numbers were already lower than they would have been due to general dissatisfaction with the GOP.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:46 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
sardia wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:Hey, progress it progress. Don't mock them, it just sets them back. Remember that during the Emmet Till case, most of Alabama was horrified... until everyone else started mocking Alabama (which it definitely earned), turning it into a nationalistic issue and suddenly the murderers were state heroes that could have done no wrong.

Do you have a citation for this?


From wikipedia

Although initially local newspapers and law enforcement officials decried the violence against Till and called for justice, they responded to national criticism by defending Mississippians, temporarily giving support to the killers.


Oh, mistake on my part; it was Mississippi, not Alabama. I'm so sorry Alabama, for associating you with horrific hate crimes.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:56 pm UTC
by eran_rathan
Ginger wrote:
SDK wrote:
slinches wrote:It's a real effect that will likely produce negative unintended consequences if we don't address it.

I mean, you cite "huge consequences", but when have you ever seen someone punished based on nothing but one accusation? It's either a multitude of accusations or there's a bunch of other evidence. So I'll again default to the "don't do it and you'll be fine" mantra.

I've been accused and prosecuted based on a single man's testimony. He got a restraining order based on a single threat and no pattern of behavior. Plus people treat me more like a creepy cross dressing man so I sympathize with men here. People have misinterpreted my actions in the worst possible light--Criminal actions, creepy actions or what have you. And it took next to no evidence or patterns of harassment to start a trial.

Update: Do I excuse myself because I felt it unfair? No. I made a confession and technically they were just doing their jobs. But I always like thought it took more than one person's words to get you in trouble for criminal harassment?




from MRSA, Title 17A, §209. Criminal threatening
1. A person is guilty of criminal threatening if he intentionally or knowingly places another person in fear of imminent bodily injury.


(most states are similar).

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:06 pm UTC
by Ginger
So... but no plans of actually killing or harming somebody that wasn't afraid of me and was harassing me back never entered the picture at trial. And I was made to look like a lunatic. Good job my home community. I never want to prosecute anybody. Because words came out of my mouth I am guilty of a crime to somebody that wasn't even afraid of me.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 pm UTC
by eran_rathan
In the eyes of the law, how do they know that you didn't mean anything by it, that you didn't intend to act on your words?

If someone says they are going to do $criminal_act, and then do it, everyone blames the police for not doing anything. If they don't, and the police act on that threat, people argue that the police are over-reacting.

How many times do we see in domestic violence situations especially where everyone around the couple knew that A was threatening B, but then when A actually does something everyone wrings their hands and says, "Oh, someone should have done something?!" when before they said, "Oh, he doesn't mean it. He'd never actually DO that, y'know?"

To circle this back to the current discussion, Look at Trump's words. Should he be held accountable for his words, even if he never intended to act on them?

EDIT TO ADD: I'm not trying to dismiss what you had happen, or say that it was not shitty, because it was. Totally sucks. That being said, look at it from the perspective of someone who is threatened and no one believes them.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:23 pm UTC
by Ginger
Yes, I deserved to be prosecuted, in the eyes of the law. Because of the threat of my threat I guess? Like I could have had secret knives or guns. Anyways, this guy was sexually harassing me, and I even tried to tell people and nobody wrote it down. So bad game on both sides. Do I and do Trump deserve to be taken to task for our words/actions even if we didn't mean them? I guess in today's world: Yes. And I sincerely doubt Trump is more innocent than me.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:32 pm UTC
by cphite
Ginger wrote:
SDK wrote:
slinches wrote:It's a real effect that will likely produce negative unintended consequences if we don't address it.

I mean, you cite "huge consequences", but when have you ever seen someone punished based on nothing but one accusation? It's either a multitude of accusations or there's a bunch of other evidence. So I'll again default to the "don't do it and you'll be fine" mantra.

I've been accused and prosecuted based on a single man's testimony. He got a restraining order based on a single threat and no pattern of behavior. Plus people treat me more like a creepy cross dressing man so I sympathize with men here. People have misinterpreted my actions in the worst possible light--Criminal actions, creepy actions or what have you. And it took next to no evidence or patterns of harassment to start a trial.

Update: Do I excuse myself because I felt it unfair? No. I made a confession and technically they were just doing their jobs. But I always like thought it took more than one person's words to get you in trouble for criminal harassment?


There doesn't have to be a pattern of behavior for a criminal threatening charge. Knowingly placing another person in fear of imminent death or bodily injury is enough; especially if a weapon is involved.

If you made a confession then it isn't just one person's words - it's one person's words plus your confession. There doesn't need to be any evidence beyond what you've already stated was there; the person you threatened reported the threat and you confessed to issuing the threat. How was it misinterpreted? That's a slam dunk right there; it's about as easy as it gets for a prosecutor.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:34 pm UTC
by Ginger
He wasn't afraid of me. He threatened me with his body and words all the time. He just never got in trouble because he did it when nobody was watching. I made a false confession because I wanted to scare him away. That the person I was talking to violated confidentiality (she was a counselor) to tell the cops I still feel I was treated unfairly. So yes, I made a threat, and it was totes easy to get me convicted. And they did. They also made me out like a total cray-cray, they forced me to go to unfair counseling and this guy was sexually harassing me the whole time and got away with it.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:35 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
I feel like we are missing critical pieces of the story. Ginger, do you feel comfortable telling us the whole story, if not here then in the Dear SB forum?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:37 pm UTC
by Ginger
I'm comfortable telling the whole story but not so it can be picked apart so you can tell me Mr. Man was right and I totes deserved my righteous conviction. Anyways, I'm done talking about the case in here, people can PM me or talk somewhere else if they really want to know the truth.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:40 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
I have no intention of tearing it apart. If you want a safe space for discussion, I strongly recommend the Dear SB forum.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:46 pm UTC
by Thesh
Mutex wrote:
Thesh wrote:I'm going with surprised and upbeat. Upbeat because this was also due to Trump being a disease that causes loserness.

Moore's poll numbers improved after Trump's endorsement. This is Alabama, an endorsement from Trump is going to help. Although it's possible Moore's poll numbers were already lower than they would have been due to general dissatisfaction with the GOP.


It helped him in the polls among people who weren't going to vote Democrat but there are Republican voters in Alabama who don't support Trump and Democrats energized against Trump, and that is what matters.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/re ... n-outlier/

First, we can assign about 10 points to the national political environment. That’s because the generic congressional ballot favors Democrats by about 10 points, meaning that you’d expect the Democrat to win the typical swing seat by about 10 points in this political climate.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:27 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
Selma Hayek on being sexually harassed by Weinstein, worse, and the making of Frida

Also of note is that, well, you remember that girl-girl sex scene in Frida? Did you enjoy it? Harvey forced that into the movie so that he could in some small way control Selma sexually.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:42 am UTC
by morriswalters
sardia wrote:Got another raper of teens here, but he also a druggie and an arsonist of his own church.
Well, the raper took care of the problem himself it appears.
Rep. Dan Johnson, a Republican, reportedly shot and killed himself on a bridge in Mt. Washington, Ky. The gun was recovered by police, according to WDRB.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:39 am UTC
by ObsessoMom
This is not really news (Oct. 6), but it was news to me.

Disturbing allegations of sexual harassment in Antarctica leveled at noted scientist

Boston University (BU) is investigating sexual harassment complaints made against a prominent Antarctic geologist by two of his former graduate students. The women allege that David Marchant, then an assistant professor, harassed them during different research expeditions starting 2 decades ago, while they were isolated in small groups in the Antarctic. In supporting documents and interviews, several other women report similar treatment from Marchant in that period.

The allegations come at a time of heightened attention to sexual harassment and gender discrimination in science. Scientists are also becoming more attuned to the potential dangers women face in isolated field camps, where they may depend on senior men for food, water, and shelter. In one online survey published in PLOS ONE and covered by Science in 2014, 71% of 512 female respondents reported being sexually harassed during fieldwork; 84% of them were trainees.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:08 am UTC
by jewish_scientist
I saw this article and I immediately thought about this thread: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:17 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
jewish_scientist wrote:I saw this article and I immediately thought about this thread: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html


Yes, we should ban porn based on an op-ed article in a second tier newspaper.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:39 pm UTC
by jewish_scientist
You don't have to be so harsh. I found an article related to this topic so I posted it. Nothing more and nothing less.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:35 pm UTC
by Sableagle
The Great Hippo wrote:
Sableagle wrote:Nope. Someone about as incidental to the situation as Elektra, Texas, is to the New Orleans levees told the authorities that I was guilty, and they took that person's word for it, then leaned on a woman to make a false complaint against me. Whoever it was didn't say anything to me.
Someone incidental to the actual event (as in, someone who was just watching) tried to get a sexual harassment complaint lodged against you. They failed, because you apparently acted like a responsible person.
SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT EVEN THERE AT THE TIME!

Did you see that part this time?

Ugh.

Yeesh.

...

So, anyway, some of you may have heard, maybe in the Police Misbehaviour Thread, that some cases have collapsed after the defence got hold of evidence the prosecution hadn't submitted. I think it counts as a very serious fuck-up, but the Met seem not to agree. Anyway ...

Today's or maybe yesterday's Sun was left open on the Rod Liddle page, headline: "When will PC cops realise not all rape claims are real?"

To me, that sounds like David Duke asking when the police in Missouri are going to realise that not all black men are innocent.

Quote from Google search results page:
Search Results
PC police must realise not all rape claims are real and stop ruining ...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5184544/r ... cusations/
2 days ago - 12. Liam Allan's case collapsed after police failed to hand over 40,000 damning text and WhatsApp messages. Now the Met is investigating 30 more rape cases to see if there's been chicanery at work. The barristers say it happens all the time when it comes to sexual assault. I bet it does. And the reason it ...

So who, exactly, is policing the pitiful police who let innocents get ...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/.../trevo ... he-police/
5 days ago - While Liam Allen can consider himself an extremely lucky man there are countless others who almost certainly are serving time for rapes they have never committed. ... ROD LIDDLE. PC police must realise not all rape claims are real and stop ruining men's lives ...


Any town that wants to join Liverpool in not selling the Sun has my support ... somehow. I dunno. I'll go there for a pub dinner or something? I'd approve.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:59 pm UTC
by morriswalters
CorruptUser wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote:I saw this article and I immediately thought about this thread: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html


Yes, we should ban porn based on an op-ed article in a second tier newspaper.
Maybe we should look at the legality of it after a period of acceptance. Certainly a large part of it demeans women. It may be that making it legal has had downsides. And it doesn't hurt to revisit it.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:29 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
morriswalters wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:
jewish_scientist wrote:I saw this article and I immediately thought about this thread: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html


Yes, we should ban porn based on an op-ed article in a second tier newspaper.
Maybe we should look at the legality of it after a period of acceptance. Certainly a large part of it demeans women. It may be that making it legal has had downsides. And it doesn't hurt to revisit it.


All I want from porn is that the stories don't involve the guys manipulating women into sex, because I find it way more sexy when the girl actually wants it than when she doesn't. I know, it's a perverted fetish and I should be ashamed.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:33 pm UTC
by Sableagle
CorruptUser wrote:I find it way more sexy when the girl actually wants it than when she doesn't. I know, it's a perverted fetish and I should be ashamed.
"Enthusiastic participant enjoying everything that's happening" is a fetish so shameful you can't even use it as a search term. :oops: It's good to know that someone else somewhere shares it. Even if we're an ocean apart, it's less lonely than being the only one on Earth.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:47 pm UTC
by morriswalters
CorruptUser wrote:All I want from porn is that the stories don't involve the guys manipulating women into sex, because I find it way more sexy when the girl actually wants it than when she doesn't. I know, it's a perverted fetish and I should be ashamed.
If you were to accidentally find one preserve it for inclusion in a museum of rare artifacts. Until then try porn done by women for women. I don't believe it but you might.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:08 pm UTC
by The Great Hippo
Sableagle wrote:SOMEONE WHO WAS NOT EVEN THERE AT THE TIME!

Did you see that part this time?

Ugh.

Yeesh.
Oh, I beg your pardon. Though -- in that case -- my point is even more relevant.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:54 pm UTC
by jewish_scientist
morriswalters wrote:Maybe we should look at the legality of it after a period of acceptance. Certainly a large part of it demeans women.


I have been thinking about a law that would make this type of pornography illegal that no one would find objectionable and this is what I have come up with so far: "Any obscene* material that depicts acts that are prohibited by law are illegal." Obscene material is not protected by the First Amendment by definition, so there is nothing the ACLU would find wrong; obscene works have no serious artistic, political, or scientific value as currently defined, so I see no way that obscene works could benefit society.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:01 pm UTC
by eran_rathan
jewish_scientist wrote:
morriswalters wrote:Maybe we should look at the legality of it after a period of acceptance. Certainly a large part of it demeans women.


I have been thinking about a law that would make this type of pornography illegal that no one would find objectionable and this is what I have come up with so far: "Any obscene* material that depicts acts that are prohibited by law are illegal." Obscene material is not protected by the First Amendment by definition, so there is nothing the ACLU would find wrong; obscene works have no serious artistic, political, or scientific value as currently defined, so I see no way that obscene works could benefit society.

Which would no doubt be used as a bludgeon against LGBTQ porn specifically (since there are often laws against sodomy still on the books, though not generally enforced).

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:56 pm UTC
by jewish_scientist
eran_rathan wrote:Which would no doubt be used as a bludgeon against LGBTQ porn specifically (since there are often laws against sodomy still on the books, though not generally enforced).


If material depicting X is illegal and you do not want it to be, then you could make X legal.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:01 pm UTC
by DaBigCheez
And if material depicting X is legal and you don't want it to be, you could make X illegal.

Hooray for ex post facto illegality!

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:06 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
If step sibling porn is legal today, you film tomorrow, and it's illegal next week, is the material illegal to possess next week?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:50 pm UTC
by morriswalters
I find it laughable that anyone thinks that you can talk about sexual harassment without talking about porn. How would you approach a women about a g*** b***, is there some protocol? Honey have you ever wanted to do it with 50 or so of our closest friends? How about t****** porn? Honey can I drive nails through your sensitive areas? Just asking is all. How do you start that conversation?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:34 pm UTC
by DaBigCheez
...what?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:46 pm UTC
by CorruptUser
I think it's supposed to be sarcasm? I guess? The gist is that the scenarios in porn are so unrealistic that it's laughable that we'd have to discuss porn with regards to sexual harassment. E.g., the rules regarding identical twin sister sex, etc.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:46 pm UTC
by morriswalters
CorruptUser wrote:...scenarios in porn are so unrealistic...
Obviously we see things very differently.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:17 am UTC
by orthogon
morriswalters wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:...scenarios in porn are so unrealistic...
Obviously we see things very differently.

... or you see very different things?

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:02 am UTC
by morriswalters
Quite possibly. I've decided not to care.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:22 am UTC
by Ginger
CorruptUser wrote:I think it's supposed to be sarcasm? I guess? The gist is that the scenarios in porn are so unrealistic that it's laughable that we'd have to discuss porn with regards to sexual harassment. E.g., the rules regarding identical twin sister sex, etc.

Porn loves sexual abuse. It doesn't have to be realistic: Sexing up land ladies, sexing up your sister, sexing up your pizza girl--All these women regardless of their female personalities are forced into subservient, icky sex positions for the males' pleasures, which is tantamount to sexual assault/abuse. Porn should be more heavily regulated. And the actresses get abused all over the places. Who enjoys being sexually demeaned, forcefully dominated and playing out pretend rape scenarios, which are gross and demeaning by themselves? I certainly never enjoyed being somebody's sexual dream girl.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:07 am UTC
by The Great Hippo
Ginger wrote:Who enjoys being sexually demeaned, forcefully dominated and playing out pretend rape scenarios, which are gross and demeaning by themselves?
I mean, yes -- there are people who enjoy these things, especially when it's performed in a safe, consensual environment. It's understandable that it grosses you out (and I certainly don't blame you for finding it gross!), but don't insist that these people don't actually exist -- they most certainly do (and they're not all women, either).

That being said, I would definitely agree that the pornographic industry -- and the sex industry -- needs heavy regulating. I'm not convinced everyone involved in this industry is wholly consenting, and that's a pretty harrowing prospect to face. The proximity of capitalism to fantasies involving exploitation creates enormous risks for actual exploitation -- something which I don't think any (sane, rational, mature) adult wants.

Re: Sexual Harrassment Epidemic

Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:16 am UTC
by Ginger
Hippo's right. Even I enjoy forceful sex, handcuffs and saying "No that doesn't mean no" sometimes. So I guess I retract my rhetorical question about pornography/sex workers. And by the way Morris Walters: Ask me on Sunday to do all those sexy things with you and I'll submit. Just ask a woman to do sexual things with you in a respectful and caring way. Then they'll actually appreciate your gentlemanly tact and maybe give you what you truly want. ;)