In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

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In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:26 pm UTC

Full Article Here

It's a good thing for John McCain that only American citizens can vote in U.S. presidential elections. If the election were held overseas, or even in the rest of North America, the Republican nominee wouldn't stand a chance.

This was just one of the remarkable findings in a new Reader's Digest Global Poll in which we asked people in 17 countries, including the United States, to name the issues they care about most and tell how they feel about the United States and the presidential contenders. (For an explanation of the poll methodology, see below.)

"It's Obama by a landslide—except in the country in which he's actually running for president," says John Fredricks, director of polling and research for Reader's Digest. "What is most striking is the margin of his support."


The article lacks the nifty little chart that is in the magazine, so...(I took it with my phone stfu)

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:50 pm UTC

It's because McCain's foreign policy is a nightmare to anyone who is afraid of massive warfare.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Jack Saladin » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:56 pm UTC

It's always been this way. You think Bush would have gotten elected in any other country? Americans have no idea how isolated they are politically, morally and religiously.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby TheAmazingRando » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

I would say, many of them do, and they revel in that fact. Sadly, this will only validate the view among many that America is a point of light amidst a sea of moral darkness. These people are strengthened by foreign opposition, European especially.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby The Spherical Cow » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:05 am UTC

Europeans have traditionally been far more left politically than America, so it's no surprise that the American right party wouldn't be popular over here.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby TiPerihelion » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:17 am UTC

Jack Saladin wrote:Americans have no idea how isolated they are politically, morally and religiously.


I do. :cry: I'm seriously considering getting the hell out if McCain wins. Look, I know you foreigners don't like all the stupid people in America, but at least you don't have to see them every time you go to the grocery. It's really depressing, let me tell you.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:22 am UTC

My dad is uberpublican, so he basically took this to mean that other countries 'know' that Obama will make America less competition in the global market. I was like ... "Wtf?"
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:24 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:My dad is uberpublican, so he basically took this to mean that other countries 'know' that Obama will make America less competition in the global market. I was like ... "Wtf?"

You need to teach him that the world is not a giant Risk board.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:28 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:You need to teach him that the world is not a giant Risk board.

If it were, we're the guy who has 50% of the countries yet no alliances with the other players (who then ally against him in order to eliminate the most dangerous threat).
I miss Risk.. maybe we should throw down in Forum Games! I'll think on it.

On a side note ... It is SO CRAZY to even THINK of an election in the US with more than a 60% majority. I can't think of anything which has had such a victory in the US... ever. I mean, look at Netherlands and Germany in the chart. 92% ? 85%? Are you kidding me? In the US it's considered a resounding victory for a president to get 5-10% more than his leading opponent.

I wish this poll had included ALL the candidates (the Ronpaul FTW).
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby The Spherical Cow » Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:30 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:
headprogrammingczar wrote:You need to teach him that the world is not a giant Risk board.

If it were, we're the guy who has 50% of the countries yet no alliances with the other players (who then ally against him in order to eliminate the most dangerous threat).
I miss Risk.. maybe we should throw down in Forum Games! I'll think on it.

On a side note ... It is SO CRAZY to even THINK of an election in the US with more than a 60% majority. I can't think of anything which has had such a victory in the US... ever. I mean, look at Netherlands and Germany in the chart. 92% ? 85%? Are you kidding me? In the US it's considered a resounding victory for a president to get 5-10% more than his leading appointment.

I wish this poll had included ALL the candidates (the Ronpaul FTW).
To be fair, no candidate standing in any of those countries would ever get that kind of lead either. It's easy to vote for some other sucker's leader.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:03 am UTC

Maybe not in their native political environment, but in the two-party system we have I don't think their votes would differ. After all, I don't see why you would change your vote simply because it's another country's leader.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby The Spherical Cow » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:06 am UTC

Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies. So you instantly jump for the one who most closely appears to represent your views.

I think, honestly, if you brought McCain to France/Germany/Britain and continued his campaign in a similar fashion, he would still be in with a shot of the premiership.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Garm » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:10 am UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:I would say, many of them do, and the revel in that fact. Sadly, this will only validate the view among many that America is a point of light amidst a sea of moral darkness. These people are strengthened by foreign opposition, European especially.


There are definitely people who revel in the fact that we're becoming so backwards. It's horrible. And it's no wonder that the rest of the world wants Obama when we've got people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E&eurl=http://www.balloon-juice.com/?paged=2

or like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs&eurl=http://www.balloon-juice.com/?paged=3

I find it distressing that people think Obama is an "A-rab". This totally goes against what I think America stands for (plurality, acceptance, hard work, sacrifice and all that striving nation of immigrants jazz).
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Blubb3r3ng3l » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:59 am UTC

Garm wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E&eurl=http://www.balloon-juice.com/?paged=2

or like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wroj0FLvzs&eurl=http://www.balloon-juice.com/?paged=3

I find it distressing that people think Obama is an "A-rab". This totally goes against what I think America stands for (plurality, acceptance, hard work, sacrifice and all that striving nation of immigrants jazz).

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*catches breath*


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I showed the first video to an acquaintance of mine (administrator of College Republicans) in the library (he was sitting by me). He didn't disagree with anything in the first video. Just... scary

Come see XKCD's poll on the subject
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:30 am UTC

The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies


This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Princess Marzipan » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:03 am UTC

Garm wrote:videos


GREAT. Now I want to kill myself.

Jerk.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Garm » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:16 am UTC

Nougatrocity wrote:
Garm wrote:videos


GREAT. Now I want to kill myself.

Jerk.


No, no please don't do that. Killing yourself because other people are stupid is not a good solution.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby TiPerihelion » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:21 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.


I don't see how they could decide he's the more liberal candidate without looking at any of his stances or policies. And if you believe Americans are deliberating so much harder about these issues, you're sadly mistaken. At least if Obama gets elected, the rest of the world will despise us a little less - and that does affect us.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Blubb3r3ng3l » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:26 am UTC

TiPerihelion wrote:
Falmarri wrote:This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.


I don't see how they could decide he's the more liberal candidate without looking at any of his stances or policies. And if you believe Americans are deliberating so much harder about these issues, you're sadly mistaken. At least if Obama gets elected, the rest of the world will despise us a little less - and that does affect us.

Honestly, for me, my vote towards Obama is more to send a message to the rest of the world that there ARE people in the US who are willing to join the rest of the world again. If a majority of us vote McCain, it's basically a 'fuck you' to everybody who isn't an American.

This election, like every election, is a lesser of two evils thing. I don't think either candidate is AS evil as we cold say Bush has been, but I want to say 'Hi, world, it's me, Blubb3r3ng3l. I'm ready to play nice again'
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby roc314 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:57 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:
The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies


This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.
Or they happen to agree with his positions on such. I'm relatively certain that most of Europe would support more gun control and high capital gains taxes (as they have more of that that the USA). America is one of the more conservative first world countries; what seems liberal to us is often commonplace elsewhere. (Someone from elsewhere correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:31 am UTC

roc314 wrote:
Falmarri wrote:
The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies


This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.
Or they happen to agree with his positions on such. I'm relatively certain that most of Europe would support more gun control and high capital gains taxes (as they have more of that that the USA). America is one of the more conservative first world countries; what seems liberal to us is often commonplace elsewhere. (Someone from elsewhere correct me if I'm wrong.)


Which is basically my point. But if you asked anyone from that survey to name certain policies obama holds, they'd be hard pressed to name 1 except for general classically liberal ideas that any liberal might support.

TiPerihelion wrote:I don't see how they could decide he's the more liberal candidate without looking at any of his stances or policies. And if you believe Americans are deliberating so much harder about these issues, you're sadly mistaken. At least if Obama gets elected, the rest of the world will despise us a little less - and that does affect us.


Because the media and everyone else have told them that he is, and even more simply, he's not a republican. You could run anyone on the democratic ticket and the rest of the world would pick that candidate over a republican.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:39 am UTC

The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies. So you instantly jump for the one who most closely appears to represent your views.

How kind of you to essentially define American voting tactics.

Hellooooooo Republican party voting agenda.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Avelion » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:42 am UTC

I want out of this country so badly now. Seriously, what little faith I still had in the United States was completely shattered by that second video.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:42 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:
The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies. So you instantly jump for the one who most closely appears to represent your views.

How kind of you to essentially define American voting tactics.

Hellooooooo 99% of everyone's voting agenda.


Fix'd. This is why democracy doesn't work. It's a binary system and you can't help but simplify each candidate's views to find the lesser of 2 evils.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby roc314 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:48 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:Fix'd. This is why democracy doesn't work. It's a binary system and you can't help but simplify each candidate's views to find the lesser of 2 evils.
Because 2 choices is soooo much worse than one choice. :roll:
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby TheAmazingRando » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:54 am UTC

Even if there aren't good choices, at least it keeps our politicians in some way accountable. Doing everything for ratings isn't necessarily a good aspect of leadership, since it leads to a lot of middle of the road decisions, but it's a hell of a lot better than nothing.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:57 am UTC

roc314 wrote:
Falmarri wrote:Fix'd. This is why democracy doesn't work. It's a binary system and you can't help but simplify each candidate's views to find the lesser of 2 evils.
Because 2 choices is soooo much worse than one choice. :roll:


What makes you think you'd get a choice at all. People are stupid, why let them feign like they're making an informed decision. :P

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby roc314 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:07 am UTC

An uninformed choice is still much better than no choice.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Falmarri » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:33 am UTC

roc314 wrote:An uninformed choice is still much better than no choice.


Arguably. the Ronpaul taking power in some kind of coup would be better than having to choose between these 2 clowns. :D

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby william » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:34 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:
roc314 wrote:An uninformed choice is still much better than no choice.


Arguably. the Ronpaul taking power in some kind of coup would be better than having to choose between these 2 clowns. :D

the Ronpaul would be worse than Sarah Palin.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby ++$_ » Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:22 am UTC

william wrote:
Falmarri wrote:
roc314 wrote:An uninformed choice is still much better than no choice.


Arguably. the Ronpaul taking power in some kind of coup would be better than having to choose between these 2 clowns. :D

the Ronpaul would be worse than Sarah Palin.
I'd take a well-intentioned person with no clue any day over someone who thinks San Francisco is Sodom and whose supporters want to kill Barack Obama (or was it Ayers?) -- and who ALSO has no clue.

Seriously, the Ronpaul? His stance on a number of issues is admirable (constitutional rights, for example), but I think you'll find that Obama has many of the same positions. The exception is gun ownership. Up to this point he seems like a good candidate, but when you look deeper there are many troubling things:

Spoiler'd for long and slightly off-topic
Spoiler:
* He supports "ballot access"; that is, putting measures on the ballot for the people to vote on. While this might sound like a good idea, it has been rather -- bad -- here in California. Many ill-advised measures have passed by narrow margins, and a lot of the debt the state is in can be traced to bond measures on the ballot. Corporate interests or fringe groups can place an initiative on the ballot with little trouble and try to obfuscate the true purpose of the measure; this is often successful.

* His economic positions (significantly, his opposition to government regulation of the health-care industry) often seem to advocate free-market positions, but in fact ignore important aspects of the free market like externalities and monopolization.

* He thinks that social security can work if people are allowed to opt out (or he's saying that in order to try to cause the system to fail).

* His fiscal policies are junk. He claims he wants to balance the budget, but also that he'll never raise taxes no matter what. He says he'll never approve a deficit, but sometimes a deficit is beneficial -- he completely ignores this in favor of a narrow, black-and-white view. He claims that it won't ever be necessary for the government to employ fiscal policy instruments because the economy will be stable after his policies are implemented, but this is historically false (his policies were in many ways the de facto standard before the Great Depression, and there was still great economic instability).

* His monetary policy (really the mainstay of his platform) is dubious. At best, it's untested.

* He just endorsed Chuck Baldwin for President. Baldwin thinks that the Confederate leaders (during the civil war) were not racists and that the Mexican government is deliberately trying to undermine the stability of the United States. Either the Ronpaul agrees with these things (in which case he's a nut job) or he's turning a blind eye to them (in which case he has dangerously low moral standards).

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:05 am UTC

This thread IS NOT about comparing candidate views. It is about the article -- which in turn is about how the rest of the world favors Obama. As soon as one goes beyond discussing the article and at least US/World voting and goes into Obama's 'policies' (ESPECIALLY when they are from a biased viewpoint) one has gone off-topic. I appreciate everyone's cooperation in this matter.. so as to avoid having my thread closed or people's posts deleted or what-have-you.


Anyway...

Falmarri wrote:Fix'd. This is why democracy doesn't work. It's a binary system and you can't help but simplify each candidate's views to find the lesser of 2 evils.


I was referring to the Agenda's that Republicans (and Democrats) are sent telling them how to vote on various measures. It wasn't a slander of the republican party, per se.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby michael24easilybored » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:40 am UTC

you have to realise that america is so much more right wing than the rest of the world, so the rest of the world is going to be more likely to go for the democrat candidate, no matter who they are. Obama, Clinton (either would be ahead) even that useless Carter, whoever. We like these ones more than McCain, Bush (W and HW) Reegan (lot's of americans seem to like him which we never understand) or Palin (we're really really scared of her, although I suppose the good thing about her is that she's taught us about the big bit of america between the bits we like to go to on holiday)

Take social health care, in Britain we have this National Health Service thingy that, for all it's failings, does provide free health care for everyone and is paid for through general taxation. I would guess that in the US there would probably even be a lot of democrats who would see the idea of state health care as worryingly communist, yet here in Britain even the most right-wing political parties and newspapers support the NHS and anyone who ever threatened to get rid of it and replace it with a US style system of private healthcare would never be heard of ever again.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Haistfu » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:57 am UTC

michael24easilybored wrote:...anyone who ever threatened to get rid of it and replace it with a US style system of private healthcare would never be heard of ever again.


Wow at least we don't kill our conservatives wow
/cheesydrums

I think it has a lot to do with hive-mind thinking processes. The tendency of people to agree with anything providing there are enough people agreeing with it. I forgot what that's called... shit that's sad. I was a socsci major for quite a while :x
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby michael24easilybored » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:18 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:
michael24easilybored wrote:...anyone who ever threatened to get rid of it and replace it with a US style system of private healthcare would never be heard of ever again.


Wow at least we don't kill our conservatives wow


I don't mean they'd be bumped off :) I just mean they would promptly disappear from public life as the masses overwhealmingly rejected them at the ballot box

I would never condone killing conservatives, at least not on a public forum like this, maybe in the pub after a few drinks...... :)

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby cycoden » Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:11 am UTC

Falmarri wrote:
The Spherical Cow wrote:Because it's easier to simplify a leader's position if you're not going to be affected by every minutiae of their policies


This. People in other countries don't know or don't care what obama's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, or any of the other policies that could affect us but not affect them. Besides, they see him as the more liberal candidate and that wins him their vote regardless of any actual stance or policy.


I'm pretty sure there would be a sizeable percentage of foreigners who know more of the democratic and republican positions than a percentage of American voters - I'm in no position to speculate what the percentages would be and I'm not trying to paint US voters as unusually apathetic, but Australian and UK news websites usually have a couple articles a day, as well as syndicating stuff from US media. Fox and CNN are available on pay tv here too.

With the US economy tanking, our sharemarket tends to follow. As well as the unique dynamics of this election, the economic crisis means a lot of non-Americans are very interested in, and are talking about US politics.

Although yes, I'm sure non-Americans are more interested in foreign policy, I've talked to people who are following the health care, education, gun control and obviously the economic issues.

As for the Ronpaul, a mate of mine is a big fan of his policies and principles (and we're Australian, although he's since emigrated to the US). I watched the Google interview with Ron, my impression was that he is a right wing idealist in the same way that communists are left wing idealists - nice theories, but I doubt they'd work in the real world.
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Bulvox wrote:This is probably one of the few times that I'll agree with Cycoden on anything. I just wish that my brain worked like that.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Iv » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:12 am UTC

The Spherical Cow wrote:To be fair, no candidate standing in any of those countries would ever get that kind of lead either. It's easy to vote for some other sucker's leader.


In 2002 in the French presidential elections, Jacques Chirac (right wing) was elected by 82.2% of voters aginst Jean-Marie Le Pen (far right). Some commentators went on comparing this election to a US rep vs a US dem. In fact, US republicans would probably fall in the far right end of the political spectrum here.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Felstaff » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:26 am UTC

I'd vote for Obama for what he's going to do about capital gains tax, gun control, social security reform, and several other policies that could affect USAians but not me.
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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby Matsi » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:03 pm UTC

The Spherical Cow wrote:To be fair, no candidate standing in any of those countries would ever get that kind of lead either. It's easy to vote for some other sucker's leader.


Haistfu wrote:Maybe not in their native political environment, but in the two-party system we have I don't think their votes would differ. After all, I don't see why you would change your vote simply because it's another country's leader.


Indeed, here in the Netherlands we have many parties, and for many years there hasn't been a single party that got the majority of votes, so our government is always comprised of a coalition of at least 2 parties.

I'd like to see Obama become president of The US, it would be better for the world than if McCain got elected. And if I were an US citizen, I would vote for Obama too.

michael24easilybored wrote:
Haistfu wrote:
michael24easilybored wrote: wrote:...anyone who ever threatened to get rid of it and replace it with a US style system of private healthcare would never be heard of ever again.

Wow at least we don't kill our conservatives wow

I don't mean they'd be bumped off :) I just mean they would promptly disappear from public life as the masses overwhealmingly rejected them at the ballot box

I would never condone killing conservatives, at least not on a public forum like this, maybe in the pub after a few drinks...... :)

Sadly just such a political assassination happened here, except it was over immigration instead of health care.

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Re: In the World's Eye...Obama wins? (Reader's Digest)

Postby segmentation fault » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:41 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:It's because McCain's foreign policy is a nightmare to anyone who is afraid of massive warfare.


or you know anyone who doesnt WANT massive warfare...especially with a country that has a massive nuclear arsenal, and the only country to ever have used a nuclear ordinance.
Last edited by segmentation fault on Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:53 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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